It all depends on whose ox is getting gored

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by johnpower@verobeachlaw.com, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. Guest

    As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    were done.


    Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    same as you can.


    Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    every crime, however minor or however heinous.
    , Feb 6, 2004
    #1
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  2. Tom Thackrey Guest

    On 6-Feb-2004, wrote:

    > As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    > young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    > done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    > interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    > law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    > information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    > little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    > defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    > our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    > they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    > were done.
    >
    >
    > Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    > represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    > cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    > same as you can.
    >
    >
    > Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    > make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    > every crime, however minor or however heinous.


    John, I'm sure you feel strongly that your profession has been slighted
    because some people don't understand the system. It's pretty easy to be
    frustrated with a system that ties people in the press, releases the guilty
    on technicalities, and favors the rich. Since most politicians are lawyers
    and they make most of the laws, it's also a system that has a very poor
    track record of fixing its abuses.

    Posting your off-topic rant to rec.photo.digital suggests that you aren't
    very concerned with breaking the rules, so you're probably a good lawyer.
    It's interesting to remember that the very first wide spread Internet SPAM
    was done by a bunch of lawyers.





    --
    Tom Thackrey
    www.creative-light.com
    tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
    do NOT send email to (it's reserved for spammers)
    Tom Thackrey, Feb 6, 2004
    #2
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  3. Paul H. Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    > young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    > done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    > interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    > law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    > information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    > little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    > defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    > our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    > they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    > were done.
    >
    >
    > Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    > represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    > cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    > same as you can.
    >
    >
    > Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    > make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    > every crime, however minor or however heinous.



    Hmmm... People who live in glass houses shouldn't be tossing stones. Your
    posting such a notice to rec.photo.digital shows how little concern you
    yourself have for proper procedure.
    Paul H., Feb 6, 2004
    #3
  4. Bryce Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    > young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    > done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    > interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    > law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    > information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    > little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    > defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    > our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    > they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    > were done.
    >
    >
    > Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    > represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    > cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    > same as you can.
    >
    >
    > Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    > make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    > every crime, however minor or however heinous.




    Okay Trollmeister.

    Anyways, I'll bite. There should be afforded an option to request from a
    judge permission to torture information out of a suspect, under certain
    circumstances, just light one would go after a search warrant.
    Bryce, Feb 6, 2004
    #4
  5. Guest

    On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:42:39 GMT, "Tom Thackrey"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >On 6-Feb-2004, wrote:
    >
    >> As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    >> young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    >> done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    >> interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    >> law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    >> information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    >> little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    >> defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    >> our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    >> they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    >> were done.
    >>
    >>
    >> Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    >> represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    >> cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    >> same as you can.
    >>
    >>
    >> Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    >> make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    >> every crime, however minor or however heinous.

    >
    >John, I'm sure you feel strongly that your profession has been slighted
    >because some people don't understand the system. It's pretty easy to be
    >frustrated with a system that ties people in the press, releases the guilty
    >on technicalities, and favors the rich. Since most politicians are lawyers
    >and they make most of the laws, it's also a system that has a very poor
    >track record of fixing its abuses.
    >
    >Posting your off-topic rant to rec.photo.digital suggests that you aren't
    >very concerned with breaking the rules, so you're probably a good lawyer.
    >It's interesting to remember that the very first wide spread Internet SPAM
    >was done by a bunch of lawyers.


    This post was intended for a different group where it is not unusual
    to discuss various issues. It was mistakenly posted in this group. I
    am not and never have been what you all refer to as a troll. Mistakes
    happen and this post bears witness to this fact
    , Feb 6, 2004
    #5
  6. steve Guest

    Feel free to delete the post.

    Steve



    wrote:
    > On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:42:39 GMT, "Tom Thackrey"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On 6-Feb-2004, wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    >>>young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    >>>done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    >>>interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    >>>law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    >>>information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    >>>little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    >>>defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    >>>our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    >>>they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    >>>were done.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    >>>represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    >>>cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    >>>same as you can.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    >>>make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    >>>every crime, however minor or however heinous.

    >>
    >>John, I'm sure you feel strongly that your profession has been slighted
    >>because some people don't understand the system. It's pretty easy to be
    >>frustrated with a system that ties people in the press, releases the guilty
    >>on technicalities, and favors the rich. Since most politicians are lawyers
    >>and they make most of the laws, it's also a system that has a very poor
    >>track record of fixing its abuses.
    >>
    >>Posting your off-topic rant to rec.photo.digital suggests that you aren't
    >>very concerned with breaking the rules, so you're probably a good lawyer.
    >>It's interesting to remember that the very first wide spread Internet SPAM
    >>was done by a bunch of lawyers.

    >
    >
    > This post was intended for a different group where it is not unusual
    > to discuss various issues. It was mistakenly posted in this group. I
    > am not and never have been what you all refer to as a troll. Mistakes
    > happen and this post bears witness to this fact
    steve, Feb 6, 2004
    #6
  7. On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:57:35 -0800, steve
    <> wrote:

    >Feel free to delete the post.
    >
    >Steve
    >

    Feel free to take a long walk off a short dock...
    >
    >
    > wrote:
    >> On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:42:39 GMT, "Tom Thackrey"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On 6-Feb-2004, wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    >>>>young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    >>>>done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    >>>>interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    >>>>law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    >>>>information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    >>>>little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    >>>>defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    >>>>our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    >>>>they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    >>>>were done.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    >>>>represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    >>>>cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    >>>>same as you can.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    >>>>make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    >>>>every crime, however minor or however heinous.
    >>>
    >>>John, I'm sure you feel strongly that your profession has been slighted
    >>>because some people don't understand the system. It's pretty easy to be
    >>>frustrated with a system that ties people in the press, releases the guilty
    >>>on technicalities, and favors the rich. Since most politicians are lawyers
    >>>and they make most of the laws, it's also a system that has a very poor
    >>>track record of fixing its abuses.
    >>>
    >>>Posting your off-topic rant to rec.photo.digital suggests that you aren't
    >>>very concerned with breaking the rules, so you're probably a good lawyer.
    >>>It's interesting to remember that the very first wide spread Internet SPAM
    >>>was done by a bunch of lawyers.

    >>
    >>
    >> This post was intended for a different group where it is not unusual
    >> to discuss various issues. It was mistakenly posted in this group. I
    >> am not and never have been what you all refer to as a troll. Mistakes
    >> happen and this post bears witness to this fact
    John H. Power, Feb 6, 2004
    #7
  8. I think what it really shows is that those in your profession have generally
    lost the ability to tell right from wrong. How, other than immoral, can an
    attorney be described who hides behind the law knowing his behavior will
    cause an innocent person to die? Shame, shame on you. It is not the function
    of a criminal defense attorney or any decent citizen of this country to
    allow an innocent person to needlessly die. Defense attorneys, like everyone
    else, are responsible for the results of their behavior. That public
    defender would be as responsible for that innocent person's death as the
    kidnapper, just like the driver of a getaway car is responsible for his
    partner killing the store owner even though the driver never set foot in the
    store. To coin an old Chicago mobster phrase, that defense attorney deserves
    anything that might happen to him.
    --
    Best regards,
    Craig Scheiner
    Executive Producer
    CPS Associates
    Video Production and Publication
    www.cpsvideo.net

    "Tom Thackrey" <> wrote in message
    news:3uPUb.10105$...
    >
    > On 6-Feb-2004, wrote:
    >
    > > As most of you know, we had a tragic incident in my state where a
    > > young girl was kidnapped and murdered. I am sure that justice will be
    > > done (as much as it can be in these situations) but I found it
    > > interesting that the monster's public defender was being chastised by
    > > law enforcement and the press for not getting his client to disclose
    > > information about the whereabouts of the child. This illustrates how
    > > little understanding many have about the function of the criminal
    > > defense attorney and his obligations. It is not our function to urge
    > > our clients to hasten themselves to the hangman's noose however much
    > > they may deserve it, and this is what would obviously happen if this
    > > were done.
    > >
    > >
    > > Imagine the outrage of the "typical" client who retains you to
    > > represent them and you promptly run to the opposing side (in criminal
    > > cases the prosecutor) and disclose as much damning evidence to the
    > > same as you can.
    > >
    > >
    > > Our system is built on the premise that the State must independently
    > > make the case against the defendant and this principle applies to
    > > every crime, however minor or however heinous.
    Craig Scheiner, Feb 7, 2004
    #8
  9. m II Guest

    Paul H. wrote:
    >
    > Hmmm... People who live in glass houses shouldn't be tossing stones. Your
    > posting such a notice to rec.photo.digital shows how little concern you
    > yourself have for proper procedure.


    I believe proper procedure should be followed as we kill *all* the
    lawyers. They are most likely the single greatest cause of misery for
    mankind.


    mike


    --
    __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
    / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /\ / /
    / /\ \/ /\ \/ /\ \/ /
    /_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/ \/_/
    m II, Feb 7, 2004
    #9
  10. Azzz1588 Guest

    In article <BA0Vb.4220$7Q1.1466@clgrps12>, m II <> writes:

    >I believe proper procedure should be followed as we kill *all* the
    >lawyers. They are most likely the single greatest cause of misery for
    >mankind.


    Shakespeare was a VERY smart fellow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!











    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
    Azzz1588, Feb 7, 2004
    #10
  11. Guest

    On 07 Feb 2004 15:04:25 GMT, (Azzz1588) wrote:

    >In article <BA0Vb.4220$7Q1.1466@clgrps12>, m II <> writes:
    >
    >>I believe proper procedure should be followed as we kill *all* the
    >>lawyers. They are most likely the single greatest cause of misery for
    >>mankind.

    >
    >Shakespeare was a VERY smart fellow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    >
    >

    As we lawyers frequently say among ourselves, "they hate us until they
    need us" Someone runs you over and you lose a leg...your lawyer gets
    you adequate compensation for your loss, now you don't hate us so
    much; your wife files a divorce and tries to take every asset you own,
    your lawyer prevents it, now we are not so bad.

    I could go on and on with examples...
    , Feb 7, 2004
    #11
  12. Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that stated that:
    [OT stuff snipped]

    In what way does your post relate to digital photography?

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
    Lionel, Feb 8, 2004
    #12
  13. Guest

    On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:15:10 +1100, Lionel <> wrote:

    >Kibo informs me that stated that:
    >[OT stuff snipped]
    >
    >In what way does your post relate to digital photography?


    It doesn't but it was posted to this group in error.
    , Feb 8, 2004
    #13
  14. m II Guest

    wrote:

    > As we lawyers frequently say among ourselves, "they hate us until they
    > need us" Someone runs you over and you lose a leg...your lawyer gets
    > you adequate compensation for your loss, now you don't hate us so
    > much; your wife files a divorce and tries to take every asset you own,
    > your lawyer prevents it, now we are not so bad.
    >
    > I could go on and on with examples...



    The vultures over at personal injury/divorce claims would agree. Check
    the Yellow Pages for the full page adverts. There are more of these scum
    out there than there are massage parlor whores. They have full page ads
    too. At least the whores have more class and refinement. They also get
    paid a lot less and don't cause my insurance premiums to go through the
    roof.



    mike
    m II, Feb 9, 2004
    #14
  15. Guest

    re: all depends whose ox is being gored

    On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 07:41:50 GMT, m II <> wrote:

    > wrote:
    >
    >> As we lawyers frequently say among ourselves, "they hate us until they
    >> need us" Someone runs you over and you lose a leg...your lawyer gets
    >> you adequate compensation for your loss, now you don't hate us so
    >> much; your wife files a divorce and tries to take every asset you own,
    >> your lawyer prevents it, now we are not so bad.
    >>
    >> I could go on and on with examples...

    >
    >
    >The vultures over at personal injury/divorce claims would agree. Check
    >the Yellow Pages for the full page adverts. There are more of these scum
    >out there than there are massage parlor whores. They have full page ads
    >too. At least the whores have more class and refinement. They also get
    >paid a lot less and don't cause my insurance premiums to go through the
    >roof.
    >
    >
    >
    >mike

    I'd be curious to see what tune you would sing if someone ran a stop
    sign and you lost your hands and couldn't hold a camera any more....I
    am sure an apology would be sufficient for you.

    I'm not being critical but I have had many cases where the client
    starts with "I don't believe in suing people but..." and those are the
    people who would have posted the same comments you have made in the
    black and white world your comment illustrates.

    Lawyers advertise because most people don't know any (fortunate for
    them) and this is how you let people know you are out there. I
    believe Canon and Ninon advertise their products.
    , Feb 9, 2004
    #15
  16. Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that stated that:

    >On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:15:10 +1100, Lionel <> wrote:
    >
    >>Kibo informs me that stated that:
    >>[OT stuff snipped]
    >>
    >>In what way does your post relate to digital photography?

    >
    >It doesn't but it was posted to this group in error.


    Sorry John, I posted before seeing your apology further down the thread.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
    Lionel, Feb 9, 2004
    #16
  17. m II Guest

    Re: all depends whose ox is being gored

    wrote:

    > I'm not being critical but I have had many cases where the client
    > starts with "I don't believe in suing people but..." and those are the
    > people who would have posted the same comments you have made in the
    > black and white world your comment illustrates.


    It's going to get a lot more black and white. All the old tobacco
    company lawyers have now had to take up denying the global warming
    caused by their polluting greed driven corporate asshole bosses.

    Let's not get started on politics, where about ninety percent of the
    leeches are...coincidentally, I'm sure...**LAWYERS**. They should be
    banned from public office because of their inate ability to uphold the
    letter of the law while simultaneously breaking every bone in the SPIRIT
    of it.

    mike
    m II, Feb 10, 2004
    #17
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