ise newsgroup anonymity possible?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by gump, Aug 14, 2004.

  1. gump

    gump Guest

    Is browsing newsgroups private and if not can it be? If I view sensitive
    newsgroups, can I be monitored or can the information be retrieved if I
    unsubscribe after each use and don't save anything? is there a way to
    protect myself?




    -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
    gump, Aug 14, 2004
    #1
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  2. gump

    Zarggg Guest

    On 14 Aug 04 11:11, gump wrote:

    > Is browsing newsgroups private and if not can it be? If I view
    > sensitive newsgroups, can I be monitored or can the information be
    > retrieved if I unsubscribe after each use and don't save anything? is
    > there a way to protect myself?


    Google Groups via a (free without registration) HTTP anonomyizer proxy.

    Ultimately, your IP adress is recorded somwhere (as it's the nature of
    the universe), but that's the most "secret" method I've come across.

    Of course, IANASP.
    --
    Zarggg
    KeyID: 0x6425C4ED
    <http://www.zarggg.net/>
    See <http://www.zarggg.net/contact.html> for contact information.
    Zarggg, Aug 14, 2004
    #2
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  3. gump

    Moe Trin Guest

    In article <>, gump wrote:
    >Is browsing newsgroups private and if not can it be?


    No. You posted from 209.96.216.123, which is address assigned to
    an ISP in Middlesex, Virginia USA. (It's in the headers of the news
    article, along with the fact that you are using Outhouse Distress as
    a browser.) Therefore you should know about snail mail - specifically
    postcards. EVERY PACKET you send and receive can be compared to a
    postcard - meaning the mail man (your ISP) AND EVERYONE ELSE between
    you and the destination can monitor it if they choose. Using an
    encrypted service? The mail man can still see the address (and return
    address), so while they may not be able to see the contents, they still
    know about the traffic. Also remember that this "traffic" occurs EVEN
    IF ALL YOU ARE DOING IS READING (and not posting).

    Use an anonymiser service? Well, I may not be able to see your IP
    address, but your ISP and the anonymising service sure can.

    >If I view sensitive newsgroups, can I be monitored or can the
    >information be retrieved if I unsubscribe after each use and don't
    >save anything?


    Oh... reading alt.kinky.sex.girbils.wrapped.in.duct.tape, are we?

    This depends on Mommy's computer skills. There is information that gets
    swapped out to disk in normal operation, and this _could_ contain enough
    clues that you've been visiting pr0n sites. If you are viewing those
    pretty pictures, they are often temporarily stored on disk during the
    downloading process. The normal file deletion mechanism in most computer
    operating systems does not REMOVE the deleted data - it merely makes it
    harder to get to. Even if Mommy doesn't have the skills needed to recover
    the data, there are commercial services that do this on a daily basis -
    all it takes is money. Mommy could have also installed a key-sniffer
    on the computer, which means you're toast already.

    Worried about the boss discovering your surfing habits at work? It's
    often worse (for you), because there may well be someone maintaining
    the computers or network that knows a heck of a lot more about this
    than Mommy. The same is true at many educational facilities. Using a
    computer at the local library? Here in the states, many (most) of them
    are set to use local proxy servers (and content filters), so they have
    _all_ the details on a computer you can't f*ck with. The better news is
    that most (but not all) librarians lack the computer skills needed to
    embarrass you.

    Now, if you are really worried about the legal authorities finding
    out what you've been doing - generally they have to initially find some
    sign that you are interesting. If you _do_ attract unwanted LEGAL
    attention, then the 'postcard' image above applies. Depending on HOW
    interested they are, they might spend additional effort "opening your
    mail" (decrypting those packets). They might even go so far as to
    install monitoring stuff on the computer on in the room where the
    computer can be observed.

    >is there a way to protect myself?


    There is a company that regularly spams news groups advertising a
    product that claims to remove evidence from the hard drive that you've
    been surfing to the pr0n sites or similar. A far simpler solution is
    to get a life and a real boy/girl friend, and otherwise avoid visiting
    sites that you'd be ashamed to let others know you've visited.

    I'm told there is also a shop in Staten Island, New York that sells
    tin-foil hats (and full body suits) if you need them. ;-)

    Old guy
    Moe Trin, Aug 15, 2004
    #3
  4. In article <>
    (Moe Trin) wrote:
    >
    > In article <>, gump wrote:
    > >Is browsing newsgroups private and if not can it be?

    >


    Absolutely.

    Using anon remailers.

    See: http://www.quicksilvermail.net/

    (You must have your JavaScript enabled to see the page.)

    Check out this group for more info:

    alt.privacy.anon-server
    Anonymous Sender, Aug 15, 2004
    #4
  5. gump

    Leythos Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Absolutely.
    >
    > Using anon remailers.


    This is not completely true, even doing a double or tipple remailing
    will not ensure that your posts are 100% untraceable.

    About 8 years ago, if memory serves me correctly, there were a couple
    french anon servers that turned over all of their records due to legal
    action. What you need to consider is that ANON remailers, run by people
    or companies, all have to answer to someone at some point.

    Your best course of action is to not post anything that you would not
    say in public, after all, Usenet is public.

    --
    --

    (Remove 999 to reply to me)
    Leythos, Aug 15, 2004
    #5
  6. gump

    Anonymous Guest

    "gump" <> wrote in
    news::

    > Is browsing newsgroups private and if not can it be? If I view
    > sensitive newsgroups, can I be monitored or can the information be
    > retrieved if I unsubscribe after each use and don't save anything? is
    > there a way to protect myself?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----


    You could use a proxy server to connect to a public nntp server to read
    newsgroups, and a remailer to post to newsgroups, but you cannot really
    trust any proxy service, even if they say they do not store log files.
    They will. The only way to theoretically obtain complete privacy is to
    covertly install a Trojan Proxy server which *does not log connections*
    and which establishes an *encrypted tunnel* between you and the server.
    The Trojan proxy server should ideally be installed onto several
    computers around the world. Bounce your connections off of each
    infected computer and chain them together and there will be a very small
    probability that any traffic you download will be traced back to you.
    The users will be unaware that their connection is being hijacked, no
    log files are made (assuming no firewall is running on the remote
    machine with the Trojan proxy installed) and all the packets are
    encrypted!

    Of course, installing Trojan proxy servers covertly without informing
    the owners is *illegal*, and this might be the way you are caught, so I
    would not recommend you do this, even though it would give you total
    privacy!

    As for removing data stored locally, Evidence Eliminator is recommended,
    but you will need to fork out a lot of money to use this program. For
    more information, visit: http://privacy-protection.no-ip.com
    Anonymous, Sep 16, 2004
    #6
  7. gump

    Ant Guest

    "Anonymous" wrote...

    [snip]
    > As for removing data stored locally, Evidence Eliminator is recommended,
    > but you will need to fork out a lot of money to use this program.


    Haven't seen much Usenet spam from them recently, but my recommendation
    is to save your money, and stay well clear of it.

    > For more information, visit: http://privacy-protection.no-ip.com


    Are you trying to hide something? That link redirects to:
    members.fortunecity.com/richard1985/EE.htm, which has a link to EE
    containing what looks like an affiliate ID.

    Anyone who has not witnessed the dubious claims and marketing
    practices of this outfit is advised to check these pages:

    "You Are Not Being Investigated"
    http://www.evidence-eliminator-sucks.com/

    "The Evidence Eliminator Documents A Consumer Warning"
    http://www.radsoft.net/resources/software/reviews/ee/

    "Response to "
    http://www.pc-help.org/opinion/eeemail.htm
    Ant, Sep 17, 2004
    #7
  8. gump

    Anonymous Guest

    "Ant" <> wrote in news:cid8if$dkj$:

    > "Anonymous" wrote...
    >
    > [snip]
    >> As for removing data stored locally, Evidence Eliminator is

    recommended,
    >> but you will need to fork out a lot of money to use this program.

    >
    > Haven't seen much Usenet spam from them recently, but my recommendation
    > is to save your money, and stay well clear of it.
    >
    >> For more information, visit: http://privacy-protection.no-ip.com

    >
    > Are you trying to hide something? That link redirects to:
    > members.fortunecity.com/richard1985/EE.htm, which has a link to EE
    > containing what looks like an affiliate ID.
    >
    > Anyone who has not witnessed the dubious claims and marketing
    > practices of this outfit is advised to check these pages:
    >
    > "You Are Not Being Investigated"
    > http://www.evidence-eliminator-sucks.com/
    >
    > "The Evidence Eliminator Documents A Consumer Warning"
    > http://www.radsoft.net/resources/software/reviews/ee/
    >
    > "Response to "
    > http://www.pc-help.org/opinion/eeemail.htm
    >
    >


    I believe Evidence Eliminator is the best hard drive cleaning program
    available. It erases more sources of evidence than any other software
    program. The only downside to Evidence Eliminator is that it does not
    use the Gutmann wipe method. If EE implemented Gutmann wipe, then EE
    would be perfect.

    Ok, I agree that *some* affiliates do use unacceptable marketing tactics.
    I can assure you that you will not find any such advertising on my site.
    I actually think the kind of advertising some affiliates employ is just
    disgraceful. I made my site to show that there is no need whatsoever to
    resort to such extreme methods of advertising, and, of course, to raise a
    bit of money for university :)
    As for the no-ip.com redirect, I am not attempting to hide anything. I
    just thought that
    http://privacy-protection.no-ip.com looks much better and is easier to
    remember than members.fortunecity.com/richard1985/EE.htm
    Anonymous, Sep 17, 2004
    #8
  9. gump

    Anonymous Guest

    "Ant" <> wrote in news:cid8if$dkj$:


    >
    > "The Evidence Eliminator Documents A Consumer Warning"
    > http://www.radsoft.net/resources/software/reviews/ee/


    These Radsoft pages cannot be trusted - They are from a competitor!
    A company discrediting its competitors is as unethical as some affiliates
    spam and 'you are being investigated' style of advertising.
    Anonymous, Sep 17, 2004
    #9
  10. gump

    Ant Guest

    "Anonymous" wrote...

    > I believe Evidence Eliminator is the best hard drive cleaning program
    > available. It erases more sources of evidence than any other software
    > program.


    How do you know this. are you believing their hype, or have you
    evaluated other products?

    > The only downside to Evidence Eliminator is that it does not
    > use the Gutmann wipe method. If EE implemented Gutmann wipe, then EE
    > would be perfect.


    It can't clean NTFS structures.

    > Ok, I agree that *some* affiliates do use unacceptable marketing tactics.
    > I can assure you that you will not find any such advertising on my site.
    > I actually think the kind of advertising some affiliates employ is just
    > disgraceful. I made my site to show that there is no need whatsoever to
    > resort to such extreme methods of advertising, and, of course, to raise a
    > bit of money for university :)


    I can't blame you for that, but you do yourself no favours in
    associating with people (EE and spammers) who are widely despised in
    the Internet community. Someone who praises a product when there is
    money in it for them is going to be looked upon with suspicion anyway.

    > As for the no-ip.com redirect, I am not attempting to hide anything. I
    > just thought that
    > http://privacy-protection.no-ip.com looks much better and is easier to
    > remember than members.fortunecity.com/richard1985/EE.htm


    So why is there no link to your home page from the EE one? A casual
    visitor would have no idea who's page was at the end of that redirect.
    Ant, Sep 18, 2004
    #10
  11. gump

    Ant Guest

    "Anonymous" wrote...

    > "Ant":
    >> "The Evidence Eliminator Documents A Consumer Warning"
    >> http://www.radsoft.net/resources/software/reviews/ee/

    >
    > These Radsoft pages cannot be trusted - They are from a competitor!


    I would trust them more than the pushers of EE. Radsoft give credit
    where it is due, in regard to some aspects of the the EE software.

    > A company discrediting its competitors is as unethical as some
    > affiliates spam


    Normally I would agree with this, but they give reasons, and I
    understand their desire to distance themselves from EE. They supply
    good information on the EE controversy, not all of it negative.

    > and 'you are being investigated' style of advertising.


    So you acknowledge their sleazy sales techniques. What's more, EE
    quietly condones affiliate spamming. They are a disreputable company,
    and I would never consider doing business with them, no matter how
    good their software might be.
    Ant, Sep 18, 2004
    #11
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