Is this copy-protection?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by David, Nov 10, 2005.

  1. David

    David Guest

    I popped my brand new Radiohead CD I bought from sounds today, and
    proceeded to rip with EAC (Secure). Up until track 5, all was well,
    99.9% or 100.0%, however, why not 100% for all of them? Its a brand new
    disc.
    After that it went weird:
    Track 6
    Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\06 - Optimistic.wav

    Suspicious position 0:03:34

    Missing samples
    Peak level 0.0 %
    Track quality 99.3 %
    Copy finished

    Track 7
    Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\07 - In Limbo.wav

    Peak level 98.6 %
    Track quality 99.8 %
    Copy CRC C7771C8E
    Copy OK

    Track 8
    Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\08 - Idioteque.wav

    Suspicious position 0:00:48

    Missing samples
    Peak level 0.0 %
    Track quality 97.6 %
    Copy finished

    Track 9
    Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\09 - Morning Bell.wav

    Suspicious position 0:02:21

    Missing samples
    Peak level 0.0 %
    Track quality 99.1 %
    Copy finished

    Track 10
    Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\10 - Motion Picture Soundtrack.wav

    Too many samples
    Peak level 98.4 %
    Track quality 99.9 %
    Copy CRC C12EFCE4
    Copy finished

    There were errors
    David, Nov 10, 2005
    #1
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  2. David

    XP Guest

    On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:13:44 +1300, David
    <> wrote:

    >I popped my brand new Radiohead CD I bought from sounds today, and
    >proceeded to rip with EAC (Secure). Up until track 5, all was well,
    >99.9% or 100.0%, however, why not 100% for all of them? Its a brand new
    >disc.
    >After that it went weird:




    This is Very normal..

    Disks are not 100% error free, you also get bad pressing and drives do
    jitter.

    I have had very similar repots when I use that program try Feurio.


    http://www.feurio.de/
    XP, Nov 10, 2005
    #2
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  3. David

    Richard Guest

    XP wrote:

    > This is Very normal..
    >
    > Disks are not 100% error free, you also get bad pressing and drives do
    > jitter.
    >
    > I have had very similar repots when I use that program try Feurio.
    >
    >
    > http://www.feurio.de/


    Suggesting that one gets rid of the errors that EAC reports by using something
    that doesnt tell you about errors is like sticking your head in the sand so you
    dont see the oncoming train..
    Richard, Nov 10, 2005
    #3
  4. David

    XP Guest

    On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:42:54 +1300, Richard <> wrote:

    >XP wrote:
    >
    >> This is Very normal..
    >>
    >> Disks are not 100% error free, you also get bad pressing and drives do
    >> jitter.
    >>
    >> I have had very similar repots when I use that program try Feurio.
    >>
    >>
    >> http://www.feurio.de/

    >
    >Suggesting that one gets rid of the errors that EAC reports by using something
    >that doesnt tell you about errors is like sticking your head in the sand so you
    >dont see the oncoming train..



    Feurio. would be a 1000 times better than EAC..
    XP, Nov 10, 2005
    #4
  5. In article <kqCcf.199$>, daviddl.no-circulars-
    says...
    > ubject: Is this copy-protection?
    > From: David <>
    > Newsgroups: nz.comp
    >
    > I popped my brand new Radiohead CD I bought from sounds today, and
    > proceeded to rip with EAC (Secure). Up until track 5, all was well,
    > 99.9% or 100.0%, however, why not 100% for all of them? Its a brand new
    > disc.
    > After that it went weird:
    >
    >


    There is a fairly simple way to find out. Download a trial version of
    AnyDVD and install it. Then try to rip the CD again. If it now works,
    it was probably copy protection. If it still barfs at the same spots,
    then there may be an invisible problem with the disk.

    Hope you didn't allow that disk to autoplay on your machine, or you may
    already have some malicious software installed, that will try to
    interfere with your burning software etc.

    -P.

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
    Peter Huebner, Nov 10, 2005
    #5
  6. David

    steve Guest

    Richard wrote:

    > XP wrote:
    >
    >> This is Very normal..
    >>
    >> Disks are not 100% error free, you also get bad pressing and drives do
    >> jitter.
    >>
    >> I have had very similar repots when I use that program try Feurio.
    >>
    >>
    >> http://www.feurio.de/

    >
    > Suggesting that one gets rid of the errors that EAC reports by using
    > something that doesnt tell you about errors is like sticking your head in
    > the sand so you dont see the oncoming train..


    If the train is half the size of a grain of sand and travelling at very low
    speed, it might not matter.

    Depends on how big the errors are and whether or not you can hear them.
    steve, Nov 10, 2005
    #6
  7. David

    Mercury Guest

    Agreed - its not an OS install disc.

    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Richard wrote:
    >
    >> XP wrote:
    >>
    >>> This is Very normal..
    >>>
    >>> Disks are not 100% error free, you also get bad pressing and drives
    >>> do
    >>> jitter.
    >>>
    >>> I have had very similar repots when I use that program try Feurio.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.feurio.de/

    >>
    >> Suggesting that one gets rid of the errors that EAC reports by using
    >> something that doesnt tell you about errors is like sticking your head in
    >> the sand so you dont see the oncoming train..

    >
    > If the train is half the size of a grain of sand and travelling at very
    > low
    > speed, it might not matter.
    >
    > Depends on how big the errors are and whether or not you can hear them.
    >
    >
    Mercury, Nov 10, 2005
    #7
  8. David

    XP Guest

    On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:59:51 +1300, Peter Huebner <> wrote:

    >In article <kqCcf.199$>, daviddl.no-circulars-
    > says...
    >> ubject: Is this copy-protection?
    >> From: David <>
    >> Newsgroups: nz.comp
    >>
    >> I popped my brand new Radiohead CD I bought from sounds today, and
    >> proceeded to rip with EAC (Secure). Up until track 5, all was well,
    >> 99.9% or 100.0%, however, why not 100% for all of them? Its a brand new
    >> disc.
    >> After that it went weird:
    >>
    >>

    >
    >There is a fairly simple way to find out. Download a trial version of
    >AnyDVD and install it. Then try to rip the CD again. If it now works,
    >it was probably copy protection. If it still barfs at the same spots,
    >then there may be an invisible problem with the disk.
    >
    >Hope you didn't allow that disk to autoplay on your machine, or you may
    >already have some malicious software installed, that will try to
    >interfere with your burning software etc.
    >
    >-P.




    Has nothing at all to do with Copy Protection at all, most ROM drives do not
    rip to well at all and many CD's have error to start with due to Bad
    pressings..


    Also CD drive jitter can cause these errors..

    Check the Feurio Data base on drives
    XP, Nov 10, 2005
    #8
  9. David

    David Guest

    David wrote:
    > I popped my brand new Radiohead CD I bought from sounds today, and
    > proceeded to rip with EAC (Secure). Up until track 5, all was well,
    > 99.9% or 100.0%, however, why not 100% for all of them? Its a brand new
    > disc.
    > After that it went weird:
    > Track 6
    > Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\06 - Optimistic.wav
    >
    > Suspicious position 0:03:34
    >
    > Missing samples
    > Peak level 0.0 %
    > Track quality 99.3 %
    > Copy finished
    >
    > Track 7
    > Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\07 - In Limbo.wav
    >
    > Peak level 98.6 %
    > Track quality 99.8 %
    > Copy CRC C7771C8E
    > Copy OK
    >
    > Track 8
    > Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\08 - Idioteque.wav
    >
    > Suspicious position 0:00:48
    >
    > Missing samples
    > Peak level 0.0 %
    > Track quality 97.6 %
    > Copy finished
    >
    > Track 9
    > Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\09 - Morning Bell.wav
    >
    > Suspicious position 0:02:21
    >
    > Missing samples
    > Peak level 0.0 %
    > Track quality 99.1 %
    > Copy finished
    >
    > Track 10
    > Filename D:\Radiohead - Kid A\10 - Motion Picture Soundtrack.wav
    >
    > Too many samples
    > Peak level 98.4 %
    > Track quality 99.9 %
    > Copy CRC C12EFCE4
    > Copy finished
    >
    > There were errors



    Weirdly enough, I rebooted, tried again and it went fine, just one
    "suspicious position" in track 9, I can see a scratch there, it was
    there when I first took it from the case. Not really good enough for
    $35, but the error is unnoticable.
    David, Nov 10, 2005
    #9
  10. David

    shannon Guest

    On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:58:38 +1300, XP wrote:

    > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:42:54 +1300, Richard <> wrote:
    >
    >>XP wrote:
    >>
    >>> This is Very normal..
    >>>
    >>> Disks are not 100% error free, you also get bad pressing and drives do
    >>> jitter.
    >>>
    >>> I have had very similar repots when I use that program try Feurio.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.feurio.de/

    >>
    >>Suggesting that one gets rid of the errors that EAC reports by using something
    >>that doesnt tell you about errors is like sticking your head in the sand so you
    >>dont see the oncoming train..

    >
    >
    > Feurio. would be a 1000 times better than EAC..



    EAC will rip the Sony DRM CDs if you turn off autoplay and don't click yes
    to the rootkit installer.
    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004144.php

    How about Feurio ?
    shannon, Nov 10, 2005
    #10
  11. David

    ~misfit~ Guest

    shannon wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:58:38 +1300, XP wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:42:54 +1300, Richard <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> XP wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> This is Very normal..
    >>>>
    >>>> Disks are not 100% error free, you also get bad pressing and
    >>>> drives do jitter.
    >>>>
    >>>> I have had very similar repots when I use that program try Feurio.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.feurio.de/
    >>>
    >>> Suggesting that one gets rid of the errors that EAC reports by
    >>> using something that doesnt tell you about errors is like sticking
    >>> your head in the sand so you dont see the oncoming train..

    >>
    >>
    >> Feurio. would be a 1000 times better than EAC..

    >
    >
    > EAC will rip the Sony DRM CDs if you turn off autoplay and don't
    > click yes to the rootkit installer.
    > http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004144.php
    >
    > How about Feurio ?


    Having tried both I have to agree with shannon. EAC (Exact Audio Copy) lives
    up to it's name admirably. So much so that it rejected a couple of my older
    drives a while back as not being able to supply error-free data. EAC demands
    a good drive.

    If you don't want error reports (and therefore can live with errors) then
    Feurio may be an option. Another option is recording to audio Compact
    Cassette. That doesn't report errors either.
    --
    ~misfit~
    ~misfit~, Nov 10, 2005
    #11
  12. David

    Richard Guest

    steve wrote:

    > If the train is half the size of a grain of sand and travelling at very low
    > speed, it might not matter.
    >
    > Depends on how big the errors are and whether or not you can hear them.


    If a brand new unscratched CD wont rip with the same CRC everytime then its faulty.
    Richard, Nov 11, 2005
    #12
  13. David

    XP Guest

    On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:58:56 +1300, Richard <> wrote:

    >steve wrote:
    >
    >> If the train is half the size of a grain of sand and travelling at very low
    >> speed, it might not matter.
    >>
    >> Depends on how big the errors are and whether or not you can hear them.

    >
    >If a brand new unscratched CD wont rip with the same CRC everytime then its faulty.




    No its not, the Drive can also cause errors, have a read up on CD's
    XP, Nov 11, 2005
    #13
  14. David

    Richard Guest

    XP wrote:

    > No its not, the Drive can also cause errors, have a read up on CD's



    Well then the drive is stuffed. I have never had a CD fail to rip in any drive
    of mine when the CD was in good condition. CRC matches every time and no audible
    problems.

    A couple of "CD"'s I tried recently to rip did have issues where there were
    constant C2 errors coming up in EAC. I disabled the C2 checking and ripped again
    (much slower) and it would often give a different CRC when tested.

    Therefore those discs were faulty.

    I tried playing on the CD player into the digital in of the computer. Usually on
    a good CD this will be bit accurate with the ripped one in the drive (Have the
    odd issue that I put down to the soundcard), obviously without track breaks. On
    the defective discs it would give different CRCs on different tries when the
    same disc was played on different occasions.

    I still stand by what I said before. A working CD in good condition will not
    give errors.
    Richard, Nov 11, 2005
    #14
  15. David

    Andrew Dixon Guest

    David wrote:
    > I popped my brand new Radiohead CD I bought from sounds today, and
    > proceeded to rip with EAC (Secure). Up until track 5, all was well,
    > 99.9% or 100.0%, however, why not 100% for all of them? Its a brand new
    > disc.


    I've had problems with that particular CD. My original copy was very
    poorly pressed. I finally got EMI to replace it for me, and the new
    pressing was only slightly better. I'm guessing the quality of the
    pressing is having something to do with the problems you are experiencing.

    Andy
    Andrew Dixon, Nov 13, 2005
    #15
  16. Richard wrote:
    > steve wrote:
    >
    >> If the train is half the size of a grain of sand and travelling at
    >> very low
    >> speed, it might not matter.
    >> Depends on how big the errors are and whether or not you can hear them.

    >
    >
    > If a brand new unscratched CD wont rip with the same CRC everytime then
    > its faulty.


    If it's giving the same CRC every time then it is most unlikely that the media
    is faulty. Read errors will give different CRCs every time. Repeatable CRC
    errors would make me very suspicious of a copy protection scheme.
    Mark Robinson, Nov 13, 2005
    #16
  17. David

    XP Guest

    On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:36:22 +1300, Mark Robinson <2tod.net>
    wrote:

    >Richard wrote:
    >> steve wrote:
    >>
    >>> If the train is half the size of a grain of sand and travelling at
    >>> very low
    >>> speed, it might not matter.
    >>> Depends on how big the errors are and whether or not you can hear them.

    >>
    >>
    >> If a brand new unscratched CD wont rip with the same CRC everytime then
    >> its faulty.

    >
    >If it's giving the same CRC every time then it is most unlikely that the media
    >is faulty. Read errors will give different CRCs every time. Repeatable CRC
    >errors would make me very suspicious of a copy protection scheme.



    THIS IS NOT COPY PROTECTION AT ALL.

    Please read up on Audio CD copy protections.
    XP, Nov 13, 2005
    #17
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