Is there a way to prevent files from being dragged-and-dropped from a CD?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Julia Briggs, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. Julia Briggs

    Julia Briggs Guest

    Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia
     
    Julia Briggs, Sep 11, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Julia Briggs wrote:
    > Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    > from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia


    Just like everything else - if the user can see the contents of the file -
    they can copy it. Same is true for the Internet.. And it would be even
    worse with a CD/DVD where the user has physical access to the media with the
    data and unlimited time.

    You are not the first to request this, for answers that other have gotten in
    the past:

    http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Q_20657234.html

    http://www.codeguru.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=213399&highlight=protection or protect

    http://www.webservertalk.com/archive93-2004-1-105070.html

    --
    Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
    --
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Shenan Stanley, Sep 11, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Julia Briggs

    Notan Guest

    Re: Is there a way to prevent files from being dragged-and-dropped froma CD?

    Julia Briggs wrote:
    >
    > Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    > from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia


    While you haven't provided a whole lot in the way of details, exactly
    what type of CDs are you trying to protect? Music CDs? Data CDs?

    If they're files that *you* have burned to CD, you might consider
    some type of files encryption.

    Google "cd copy protection" and/or "cd encryption" for more answers.

    Notan
     
    Notan, Sep 11, 2005
    #3
  4. Julia Briggs

    Imhotep Guest

    Julia Briggs wrote:

    > Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    > from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia


    When asking such a question you should post what OS you are talking about...

    Im
     
    Imhotep, Sep 11, 2005
    #4
  5. Julia Briggs wrote:
    > Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    > from copying a file from a CD?


    Imhotep wrote:
    > When asking such a question you should post what OS you are talking
    > about...


    Looking at the groups Julia posted to:

    - alt.computer.security
    - comp.publish.cdrom.software
    - microsoft.public.windowsxp.general

    I'd assume Windows XP - but you are correct - she should have stated that in
    her post.

    You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or another
    to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the person
    receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to copy the
    files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?

    --
    Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
    --
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Shenan Stanley, Sep 11, 2005
    #5
  6. Julia Briggs

    Imhotep Guest

    Shenan Stanley wrote:

    > Julia Briggs wrote:
    >> Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    >> from copying a file from a CD?ile

    >
    > Imhotep wrote:
    >> When asking such a question you should post what OS you are talking
    >> about...

    >
    > Looking at the groups Julia posted to:
    >
    > - alt.computer.security
    > - comp.publish.cdrom.software
    > - microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
    >
    > I'd assume Windows XP - but you are correct - she should have stated that
    > in her post.
    >
    > You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or
    > another to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the
    > person receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to
    > copy the files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?
    >


    So, you want the user to be able to read the file but not copy it? If so, I
    am not sure that is possible with the standard OS tools (file permissions,
    etc) because to read something implies the ability to copy something. You
    might have to insert some kind of middle layer (between the logical file
    and the user) to accomplish this.

    Let me know what you find out. That was an interesting question...

    Im
     
    Imhotep, Sep 11, 2005
    #6
  7. Re: Is there a way to prevent files from being dragged-and-droppedfrom a CD?

    Imhotep wrote:

    > Shenan Stanley wrote:
    >
    >> (snip)
    >>
    >>You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or
    >>another to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the
    >>person receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to
    >>copy the files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?

    >
    >
    > So, you want the user to be able to read the file but not copy it? If so, I
    > am not sure that is possible with the standard OS tools (file permissions,
    > etc) because to read something implies the ability to copy something. You
    > might have to insert some kind of middle layer (between the logical file
    > and the user) to accomplish this.
    >
    > Let me know what you find out. That was an interesting question...
    >
    > Im

    Hi,

    If you can read a file, you can copy it as well, no way to stop that...

    There is one exception to this:

    Microsoft's "Windows Rights Management Services" (RMS) is an
    option for documents and e-mails produced by Microsoft Office
    2003 Professional (a pretty "heavy" solution though):

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/rightsmgmt/default.mspx




    --
    torgeir, Microsoft MVP Scripting and WMI, Porsgrunn Norway
    Administration scripting examples and an ONLINE version of
    the 1328 page Scripting Guide:
    http://www.microsoft.com/technet/scriptcenter/default.mspx
     
    Torgeir Bakken \(MVP\), Sep 11, 2005
    #7
  8. Julia Briggs

    Imhotep Guest

    Torgeir Bakken (MVP) wrote:

    > Imhotep wrote:
    >
    >> Shenan Stanley wrote:
    >>
    >>> (snip)
    >>>
    >>>You've now tweaked my interest however.. Is there a way in one OS or
    >>>another to do this when you do not necessarily know the target OS of the
    >>>person receiving the media from which you do not want them to be able to
    >>>copy the files from yet still be able to use the files as intended?

    >>
    >>
    >> So, you want the user to be able to read the file but not copy it? If so,
    >> I am not sure that is possible with the standard OS tools (file
    >> permissions, etc) because to read something implies the ability to copy
    >> something. You might have to insert some kind of middle layer (between
    >> the logical file and the user) to accomplish this.
    >>
    >> Let me know what you find out. That was an interesting question...
    >>
    >> Im

    > Hi,
    >
    > If you can read a file, you can copy it as well, no way to stop that...
    >
    > There is one exception to this:
    >
    > Microsoft's "Windows Rights Management Services" (RMS) is an
    > option for documents and e-mails produced by Microsoft Office
    > 2003 Professional (a pretty "heavy" solution though):
    >
    >

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/technologies/rightsmgmt/default.mspx
    >


    This type of technology is nothing more than the "middleware" I spoke of.
    Even worse it appears to be proprietary...

    Im
     
    Imhotep, Sep 11, 2005
    #8
  9. Julia Briggs

    jonah Guest

    On 10 Sep 2005 23:55:50 -0700, "Julia Briggs" <>
    wrote:

    >Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    >from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia


    What about using PGP or similar and writing encrypted files to a CD
    then e mail the key. Won't matter then if files are dragged and
    dropped off the CD they are useless without a key. Actually I am not
    sure its possible to do this I have never tried it, don't see why not
    though on the surface.

    Jonah
     
    jonah, Sep 11, 2005
    #9
  10. Julia Briggs

    Julia Briggs Guest

    I think it's going to be impossible to implement any sort broad
    reaching protection with every OS -- because it's too late. That is,
    too many operating systems have existed for too many years, at
    different version levels, with mass userbases, that such a feature
    wouldn't deter someone from popping a CD into a older machine? .....
    but what if some modification to the CD could cause it to error on
    "most" operating systems to deter casual duplication of files?

    Not quite the same, but see:
    http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_protect_cd.shtml

    Apparently someone figured out a minor edit to the CD that causes it to
    copy a blank version of itself using popular copiers like NERO and
    EasyCD.

    No real 100% way to protect a CD against all attacks in this world, but
    maybe some other method like this can deter 99% of people from
    drag-and-dropping a file away from the CD folder. I know some people
    drag and drop away from CD folders into media players -- but I imagine
    there is a way.

    For the life of me I can't find the thread, but I clearly read in a old
    2000 posting that, I believe it was Sony, had disc-copy protection on
    some music CD's that prevented the user from drag-and-dropping files
    away from the CD!

    .......Any existing commercial CD protection tools or ideas come to mind
    by anyone to achieve this feat? Julia
     
    Julia Briggs, Sep 12, 2005
    #10
  11. Julia Briggs

    Unruh Guest

    "Julia Briggs" <> writes:

    >I think it's going to be impossible to implement any sort broad
    >reaching protection with every OS -- because it's too late. That is,


    Sure. Burn the CD. even a few hundred degrees should do.
    A CD is MEANT usually to be read. If a program can read it, it can copy it.
    This is like asking "I am publishing a book. Is there any way I can prevent
    the readers from copying out phrases from the book?"


    >too many operating systems have existed for too many years, at
    >different version levels, with mass userbases, that such a feature
    >wouldn't deter someone from popping a CD into a older machine? .....
    >but what if some modification to the CD could cause it to error on
    >"most" operating systems to deter casual duplication of files?



    As I said, make it unreadable to all.


    >Not quite the same, but see:
    >http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_protect_cd.shtml


    >Apparently someone figured out a minor edit to the CD that causes it to
    >copy a blank version of itself using popular copiers like NERO and
    >EasyCD.


    >No real 100% way to protect a CD against all attacks in this world, but
    >maybe some other method like this can deter 99% of people from
    >drag-and-dropping a file away from the CD folder. I know some people
    >drag and drop away from CD folders into media players -- but I imagine
    >there is a way.


    >For the life of me I can't find the thread, but I clearly read in a old
    >2000 posting that, I believe it was Sony, had disc-copy protection on
    >some music CD's that prevented the user from drag-and-dropping files
    >away from the CD!


    >......Any existing commercial CD protection tools or ideas come to mind
    >by anyone to achieve this feat? Julia
     
    Unruh, Sep 12, 2005
    #11
  12. Julia Briggs

    Shadus Guest

    On 2005-09-11, Julia Briggs <> blabbed:
    > Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    > from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia


    The simple answer is: no.

    There is no real way to prevent duplication. Music cds are not directly
    accessable with filenames generally.... they have to be ripped. Other
    types of cds generally you can just copy them off there is no way to
    prevent that... if your program has to be able to read the disk, then
    anything has to be able to read the disk. You can put copy protection
    in your program to some degree (safedisk, etc) but those are easily
    bypassable to... and they dont prevent copying from the disk they just
    prevent the program from running if its not a legitimate copy of the
    disk. shrug. copy protection is a waste of time... its a simple patch
    for most people wanting to break it and it only annoys average
    non-technical usrs who have a drive that doesnt like it or something
    similar. Unique serial numbers are a more effective system or a
    hardware key of some kind, but even those are abusable.
     
    Shadus, Sep 12, 2005
    #12
  13. Julia Briggs

    Bowgus Guest

    Seems to me like including a virtual machine along with the files might do
    it :)


    "Julia Briggs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    > from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia
    >
     
    Bowgus, Sep 13, 2005
    #13
  14. Julia Briggs

    Winged Guest

    Re: Is there a way to prevent files from being dragged-and-droppedfrom a CD?

    Bowgus wrote:
    > Seems to me like including a virtual machine along with the files might do
    > it :)
    >
    >
    > "Julia Briggs" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Is there a hack, software utility or method to prevent a casual user
    >>from copying a file from a CD? thanks! Julia
    >>

    >
    >
    >


    Manually editing TOC for the file concerned to indicate a billion byte
    file (references address space not physically on CD) stops many casual
    copiers, though if someone is used to such methods the CD can still be
    copied by the astute. This can cause other issues depending on how you
    use the file.

    You can call the direct address from the disk without going through the
    TOC but if you call the file via the TOC an error will occur. This also
    requires the data to be written to the specific address location.

    To make it more difficult to duplicate the disk you can create an
    inappropriate sector length that will cause copiers like Roxio and Nero
    to fail, but you can induce incompatibility with non-multi-session
    capable drives.

    These methods require direct editing of the master media.

    Winged
     
    Winged, Sep 13, 2005
    #14
  15. Julia Briggs

    Isaac Guest

    On 12 Sep 2005 11:21:37 -0700, Julia Briggs <> wrote:
    > I think it's going to be impossible to implement any sort broad
    > reaching protection with every OS -- because it's too late. That is,
    > too many operating systems have existed for too many years, at
    > different version levels, with mass userbases, that such a feature
    > wouldn't deter someone from popping a CD into a older machine? .....
    > but what if some modification to the CD could cause it to error on
    > "most" operating systems to deter casual duplication of files?


    All music CDs require software support for "drag and drop" of music
    files because there really is no file system or files on a music CD.
    Things have evolved so that the software is more closely integrated
    and you don't notice the complexity.

    IMO even if newer and more complex protection methods are used, if an
    expert learns to crack the protection, there are few technical obstacles
    to making it easy for a "drag and drop" implementation to be produced
    that even casual Windows fans can use.

    Yes there are legal obstacles to distributing such software; namely the
    anti circumvention provisions of the DMCA, but none of that seems to have
    kept software for copying DVDs out of the hands of the public.

    Isaac
     
    Isaac, Sep 13, 2005
    #15
  16. Julia Briggs

    Julia Briggs Guest

    Hi Winged, could you simply elaborate a recommended tool and approach
    to finding a file TOC? Thanks so much. Anything else you can share
    regarding the inappropriate sector length would be excellent too.
     
    Julia Briggs, Sep 13, 2005
    #16
  17. Julia Briggs

    Julia Briggs Guest

    I am hoping if Winged or another super-brain out there can respond to
    the possibility he suggests below. Thank you so much. Kindest regards,
    Julia

    #
    Winged/
    Manually editing TOC for the file concerned to indicate a billion byte
    file (references address space not physically on CD) stops many casual
    copiers, though if someone is used to such methods the CD can still be
    copied by the astute. This can cause other issues depending on how you
    use the file.

    You can call the direct address from the disk without going through the
    TOC but if you call the file via the TOC an error will occur. This
    also requires the data to be written to the specific address location.

    To make it more difficult to duplicate the disk you can create an
    inappropriate sector length that will cause copiers like Roxio and Nero
    to fail, but you can induce incompatibility with non-multi-session
    capable drives.

    These methods require direct editing of the master media.

    Winged
     
    Julia Briggs, Sep 17, 2005
    #17
  18. Julia Briggs

    Bowgus Guest

    Here's an idea .. try "Google", "CD protection" ... 1st hit
     
    Bowgus, Sep 17, 2005
    #18
  19. Julia Briggs

    Winged Guest

    Re: Is there a way to prevent files from being dragged-and-droppedfrom a CD?

    Julia Briggs wrote:
    > I am hoping if Winged or another super-brain out there can respond to
    > the possibility he suggests below. Thank you so much. Kindest regards,
    > Julia
    >
    > #
    > Winged/
    > Manually editing TOC for the file concerned to indicate a billion byte
    > file (references address space not physically on CD) stops many casual
    > copiers, though if someone is used to such methods the CD can still be
    > copied by the astute. This can cause other issues depending on how you
    > use the file.
    >
    > You can call the direct address from the disk without going through the
    > TOC but if you call the file via the TOC an error will occur. This
    > also requires the data to be written to the specific address location.
    >
    > To make it more difficult to duplicate the disk you can create an
    > inappropriate sector length that will cause copiers like Roxio and Nero
    > to fail, but you can induce incompatibility with non-multi-session
    > capable drives.
    >
    > These methods require direct editing of the master media.
    >
    > Winged
    >

    Well the billion byte file for example can not be dragged and
    dropped..error will occur. But as stated the usefulness of the file is
    limited as the address space must be directly accessed.

    The second method does not prevent drag and drop but makes media
    duplication much more difficult especially if programmatic calls are
    made in the software.

    Another method to prevent drag and drop of the file is to remove it from
    the TOC. This file can be direct accessed by direct addressing the
    location directly however it does not prevent disk duplication, and
    standard file access methods that go though the TOC will fail.

    I know of no method that would prohibit a legal TOC file from being
    dragged and dropped in any of the various CD formats.

    Winged

    Winged
     
    Winged, Sep 18, 2005
    #19
  20. Julia Briggs

    Julia Briggs Guest

    If file(s) on a CD or DVD configured to auto-load is converted to a
    billion byte+, would it run? Assuming Windows platforms here.
     
    Julia Briggs, Sep 20, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Themus
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    835
  2. Scott Townsend
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    855
    Scott Townsend
    Mar 7, 2007
  3. Shane

    win2k support being dropped

    Shane, Jun 15, 2005, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    69
    Views:
    1,387
    Rob J
    Jul 16, 2005
  4. Stephane
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    456
    Stephane
    May 20, 2008
  5. Replies:
    4
    Views:
    673
Loading...

Share This Page