Is the war between DVD-R and DVD+R over yet? Who won?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by aniramca@yahoo.com, Dec 2, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
    I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
    few questions about these formats
    - Which one was the one first to come out?
    - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
    same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
    it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
    - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
    - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
    one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
    such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
    record or to play?
    - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
    came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
    - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
    capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
    inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
    vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
    DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
    both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
    invested one format over the other).
    I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
    both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
    to record from TV.
    - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
    using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
    LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
    play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
    scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
    - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
    the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
    gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
    (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
    grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.

    I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
    the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
    winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
    more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
     
    , Dec 2, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. BR549 Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
    > I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
    > few questions about these formats
    > - Which one was the one first to come out?
    > - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
    > same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
    > it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
    > - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
    > - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
    > one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
    > such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
    > record or to play?
    > - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
    > came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
    > - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
    > capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
    > inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
    > vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
    > DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
    > both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
    > invested one format over the other).
    > I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
    > both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
    > to record from TV.
    > - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
    > using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
    > LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
    > play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
    > scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
    > - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
    > the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
    > gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
    > (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
    > grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
    >
    > I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
    > the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
    > winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
    > more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
    >


    I didn't think there ever was a war going on. To answer some of your
    questions, here is a copy and paste from vcdhelp.com:

    DVD-R and DVD-RW
    DVD-R was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with
    standalone DVD Players.
    DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 93% of all
    DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 80% of all
    DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    DVD-R and DVD-RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
    and double sided 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
    These formats are supported by DVDForum.

    DVD+R and DVD+RW
    DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 89% of all
    DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 79% of all DVD
    Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    DVD+R and DVD+RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
    and double side 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
    These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.

    DVD+R DL
    DVD+R DL or called DVD+R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD+R. The dual layered
    discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered double
    sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-18).

    DVD-R DL
    DVD-R DL or called DVD-R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD-R. The dual layered
    discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered double
    sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-18).
     
    BR549, Dec 2, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "BR549" <> wrote in message
    news:3Nmch.6489$...
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
    >> I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
    >> few questions about these formats
    >> - Which one was the one first to come out?
    >> - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
    >> same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
    >> it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
    >> - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
    >> - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
    >> one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
    >> such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
    >> record or to play?
    >> - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
    >> came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
    >> - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
    >> capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
    >> inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
    >> vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
    >> DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
    >> both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
    >> invested one format over the other).
    >> I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
    >> both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
    >> to record from TV.
    >> - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
    >> using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
    >> LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
    >> play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
    >> scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
    >> - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
    >> the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
    >> gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
    >> (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
    >> grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
    >>
    >> I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
    >> the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
    >> winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
    >> more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
    >>

    >
    > I didn't think there ever was a war going on. To answer some of your
    > questions, here is a copy and paste from vcdhelp.com:
    >
    > DVD-R and DVD-RW
    > DVD-R was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with
    > standalone DVD Players.
    > DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 93% of
    > all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    > DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 80% of all
    > DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    > DVD-R and DVD-RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
    > and double sided 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
    > These formats are supported by DVDForum.
    >
    > DVD+R and DVD+RW
    > DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 89% of
    > all DVD Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    > DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 79% of all DVD
    > Players and most DVD-ROMs.
    > DVD+R and DVD+RW supports single side 4.37 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-5)
    > and double side 8.75 computer GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
    > These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.
    >
    > DVD+R DL
    > DVD+R DL or called DVD+R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD+R. The dual
    > layered discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered
    > double sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-18).
    >
    > DVD-R DL
    > DVD-R DL or called DVD-R9 is a Dual Layer writeable DVD-R. The dual
    > layered discs can hold 7.95 computer GB* (called DVD-9) and dual layered
    > double sides 15.9* computer GB (called dvd-18).
    >
    >

    Here are some opinions I have collected from various sources. I have NOT
    verified that the information here is accurate.
    For cd's, there is cd-r and cd-rw. There is an internatinal standard and
    licencing system for that.
    Note that the separator is a hypnen, not a minus sign

    dvd (digital versatile disk) has dvd-r and dvd-rw, same as above
    note the dvd logo on packaging and on the dvd's themselves

    dvd+r and +rw is apparently an attempt to produce media and players which do
    not conform to the markering/licencing agreement above. Not using the
    standard? then no royalites to pay. Note that dvd+rw does not display the
    dvd logo.
    My dvd burner accepts both standards.
    My stand alone dvd recorder will only burn to dvd+r or +rw, but will play
    both

    Surface scratches come from human (or pet) handling of the disks. They are
    on the protective surface, not the recording surface, but can interfere with
    playback.

    There is some question of the permanence of data on burned dvd's. Some
    people claim that rw's can start to lose data after a years or two. After
    all, they are not intended to be 'permanent'. And they also claim that dvd-r
    can loose data after a number of years. I suggest you make up your own mind
    on this.

    About blu-ray - this may be good for a viewable item such as a video, where
    nicks and scratches form momentary blurs on the screen, but consider the
    amount of data in a square millimeter of disk space - if you lose that area,
    you may lose many important data files. Plus, I doubt that anyone would have
    20 gigs of volatile data to backup on a regular basis. For me, I'm not
    interested in high definition tv or videos, so I am not investigating the
    high density formats.

    Last time I looked, there are only a few actual manufacturers of dvd's - but
    there are many brands. There is a utility (dvdinfo) that reads the disk id
    track and reports what is actually there. My TDK disks report as made by
    Ricoh, My Memorex disks as Infodisc.

    There are also utilities whch apparently can make a dvd+rw look like a
    dvd-rw. I think it is called setting book type on dvd.


    Stuart
     
    Stuart Miller, Dec 3, 2006
    #3
  4. On 12/02/2006, posted this:

    [...]

    > - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
    > same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
    > it).


    Entirely different.

    The data on (re)writable DVDs is almost literally burned by a laser,
    which causes changes in the media to create data 0s and 1s. The data on
    a commercial DVD (CD also) is pressed.

    By a process I don't know much about, the data bits on the recording to
    be are converted into pinholes for 0s and non-pinholes for 1s (or
    vice-versa). This master with its pinholes is made into a negative mold
    which is used to mold corresponding pinholes into a sheet of plastic,
    and the sheet is then plated with metal and a protective layer of
    plastic. Now you just have to add the label, put it into a box, and
    sell it.

    The above is correct in broad outline, but not exact in the details.

    [...]

    (Other posters in this thread addressed your other questions.)

    --
    Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
    letters617blochg3251
    (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Dec 3, 2006
    #4
  5. <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
    > I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
    > few questions about these formats
    > - Which one was the one first to come out?
    > - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
    > same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
    > it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
    > - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
    > - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
    > one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
    > such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
    > record or to play?
    > - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
    > came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
    > - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
    > capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
    > inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
    > vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
    > DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
    > both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
    > invested one format over the other).
    > I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
    > both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
    > to record from TV.
    > - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
    > using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
    > LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
    > play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
    > scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
    > - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
    > the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
    > gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
    > (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
    > grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
    >
    > I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
    > the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
    > winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
    > more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
    >


    "When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R?"

    Neither - commercial (bought) DVDs of movies etc are pressed like vinyls not
    burnt like DVD-R or DVD+R.
     
    Little Red Hen, Dec 3, 2006
    #5
  6. Gilgamesh Guest

    "Little Red Hen" <> wrote in message
    news:8Asch.1697$...
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
    >> I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
    >> few questions about these formats
    >> - Which one was the one first to come out?
    >> - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
    >> same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
    >> it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
    >> - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
    >> - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
    >> one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
    >> such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
    >> record or to play?
    >> - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
    >> came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
    >> - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
    >> capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
    >> inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
    >> vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
    >> DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
    >> both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
    >> invested one format over the other).
    >> I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
    >> both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
    >> to record from TV.
    >> - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
    >> using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
    >> LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
    >> play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
    >> scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
    >> - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
    >> the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
    >> gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
    >> (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
    >> grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
    >>
    >> I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
    >> the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
    >> winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
    >> more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
    >>

    >
    > "When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R?"
    >
    > Neither - commercial (bought) DVDs of movies etc are pressed like vinyls
    > not burnt like DVD-R or DVD+R.


    Unless its a pirate :)

    >
    >
     
    Gilgamesh, Dec 3, 2006
    #6
  7. Mark B. Guest

    Who cares? There are burners that can burn +/-R and +/-RW.

    I'm far more interested in how the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray will end. I have no
    interest in a hi-def player until 1) prices drop substantially and 2)
    there's either a standard established or there are players compatible with
    both.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Dec 3, 2006
    #7
  8. Per Stuart Miller:
    >Plus, I doubt that anyone would have
    >20 gigs of volatile data to backup on a regular basis.


    I'd guess that many people with photo albums and music collections would exceed
    that easily.

    My full data backups run over 70 gigs... and that's nothing special - just a
    bunch of photos and a 60-gig iPod...
    --
    PeteCresswell
     
    (PeteCresswell), Dec 4, 2006
    #8
  9. "(PeteCresswell)" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Per Stuart Miller:
    >>Plus, I doubt that anyone would have
    >>20 gigs of volatile data to backup on a regular basis.

    >
    > I'd guess that many people with photo albums and music collections would
    > exceed
    > that easily.
    >
    > My full data backups run over 70 gigs... and that's nothing special - just
    > a
    > bunch of photos and a 60-gig iPod...
    > --
    > PeteCresswell


    Agreed. I have about a 200 gig backup, but none of it is volatile. Digital
    pics, music, family videos, static things
    The volatile stuff - documents, new pics, etc is actually quit small, and
    backs up to cd- r or dvd-r in a few minutes.
    When I get all the new pics properly labelled and indexed, then I re-do the
    main backup.

    Stuart
     
    Stuart Miller, Dec 4, 2006
    #9
  10. Per Stuart Miller:
    >The volatile stuff - documents, new pics, etc is actually quit small, and
    >backs up to cd- r or dvd-r in a few minutes.
    >When I get all the new pics properly labelled and indexed, then I re-do the
    >main backup.


    Sounds like you're just doing file copys.

    If so, how do you identify the change files?
    --
    PeteCresswell
     
    (PeteCresswell), Dec 4, 2006
    #10
  11. "(PeteCresswell)" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Per Stuart Miller:
    >>The volatile stuff - documents, new pics, etc is actually quit small, and
    >>backs up to cd- r or dvd-r in a few minutes.
    >>When I get all the new pics properly labelled and indexed, then I re-do
    >>the
    >>main backup.

    >
    > Sounds like you're just doing file copys.
    >
    > If so, how do you identify the change files?
    > --
    > PeteCresswell

    I worked with incremental backups some years ago, and never had a good
    experience with it.

    Now I just back up an entire section of the server if I know it has been
    updated. From a computing and copying point of view, I am doing a lot of
    extra work, but the computer does that without complaints. I have a home
    office, so I set the backups to run while I am having dinner. For example, I
    know for sure that I have a 100% backup of my business correspondence as of
    last night, I don't have to check daily incremental backups to see where a
    specific letter is backed up. I also keep the weekend backups for a few
    weeks, and the month end backups for a few months in case I have deleted
    something I need. If I didn't write any letters today, I don't run the
    correspondence backup script. Correspondence which I may want for furture
    reference but is no longer current is moved to an archive area, which only
    needs to be backed up when it is added to. This signficantly reduces the
    daily backup size.

    Right now I know what area have been updated, so it is easy. When I get more
    people updating different areas, I will write a simple script to look for
    the newest file in an area & compare it to a backup log.

    The few times I have had to restore data ( I hate maxtor drives) it has been
    totally painless.

    Stuart
     
    Stuart Miller, Dec 4, 2006
    #11
  12. Spring Guest

    SONY uses DVD+R in their products. When the company is too big, they sell
    their products on band logo. Most customers become victum of their marketing
    trick. If you are on SONY side, you have better use DVD+R. If you hate SONY
    products, you have better use DVD-R.


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do you think that the video format war for the DVD will be over soon?
    > I still do not see that one format is overpowering the other. I have a
    > few questions about these formats
    > - Which one was the one first to come out?
    > - When you buy a DVD movie from a store. Is it a DVD-R? It has the
    > same symbol as DVD-R (The DVD+R symbol just a box with RW written on
    > it). The DVD movie, as well as DVD-R has the disk picture logo on it.
    > - Is dual layer DVD applicable for both the DVD-R and DVD+R?
    > - In the past, some movie's DVDs were written on both sides (sometimes
    > one language on one side and another on the other side). Could you buy
    > such a DVD in the market?. Do you have to have a special device to
    > record or to play?
    > - Technically, which one is more superior? DVD-R or DVD+R ? If DVD+R
    > came up later than DVD-R, did it means better and newer technology?
    > - Is it technically more complicated to produce a DVD recorder which is
    > capable to handle both DVDs? Or, it is just a simple switch technology
    > inside the box. If this is the case, then those DVD producer must have
    > vested interest with one type of DVD over the other. My LiteOn brand
    > DVD recorder is cheap (now under $100), and has the convenient to to
    > both? Why not other manufacturers follow suit (except for those who
    > invested one format over the other).
    > I seem to notice that DVD writers for computers appear to be accepting
    > both formats more readily than those stand alone DVD recorders/players
    > to record from TV.
    > - When people invented CD-R or DVD disk years ago, they indicated that
    > using the CD or DVD technology is different from a music/video tape, or
    > LPs. Unlike those other old cassette, LPs, there is NO contact when you
    > play a Cd or DVD. However, I notice that CD and DVD have lots of
    > scratches after a while. How do these scratches created?
    > - Final question - where do you find a DVD disks that guarantee that
    > the recorded data will last a long time. Is there a special DVD (DVD
    > gold or something) that can guarantee the data will not disappear
    > (permanent) after it is recorded. I seem to only notice one type or
    > grade for DVD disks, but I may be wrong.
    >
    > I know that these DVDs may be replaced with either Sony's Blu-ray or
    > the HD-DVD. However, I still do not see that DVD-R or DVD+R comes as a
    > winner, unlike the battle between Sony Betamax and VHS format. It is
    > more convenient when you look at CD-R, there is only one type available.
    >
    >
     
    Spring, Dec 5, 2006
    #12
  13. Citizen Bob Guest

    On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 22:30:18 GMT, "Stuart Miller"
    <> wrote:

    >I worked with incremental backups some years ago, and never had a good
    >experience with it.


    I agree - too messy.

    >Now I just back up an entire section of the server if I know it has been
    >updated.


    I make a clone of the hard disk and clear the archive bit on the
    working disk. Then I run a differential backup at 4:00 am. I keep it
    on a second backup disk in case the working disk becomes corrupted. To
    recover I use the clone and bring it up to date with the differential
    backup. Win2K's NTBackup backs up the Registry so I am able to recover
    interim installations of new applications.


    --

    "Yet the legislative being only a fiduciary power to act for certain
    ends, there remains still in the people a supreme power to remove or
    alter the legislative, when they find the legislative act contrary to
    the trust reposed in them....And thus the community perpetually retains
    a supreme power of saving themselves from the attempts and designs of
    any body, even of their legislators, whenever they shall be so foolish
    or so wicked as to lay and carry on designs against the liberties and
    properties of the subject."
    --John Locke
     
    Citizen Bob, Dec 5, 2006
    #13
  14. rob Guest

    On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 07:04:20 GMT, "Spring" <> wrote:

    >SONY uses DVD+R in their products.


    The PS3 has no support for DVD+R media.

    > When the company is too big, they sell
    >their products on band logo. Most customers become victum of their marketing
    >trick. If you are on SONY side, you have better use DVD+R. If you hate SONY
    >products, you have better use DVD-R.


    Utter crap.

    Sony are dropping support for DVD+R in a lot of their products now.
     
    rob, Dec 6, 2006
    #14
  15. Citizen Bob Guest

    On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 22:45:24 +1100, rob <> wrote:

    >Sony are dropping support for DVD+R in a lot of their products now.


    Quality DVD+R (Taiyo Yuden) is more expensive than TY DVD-R at the
    wholesale level.

    Check it out at one of the largest wholesalers on the Internet,
    rima.com.

    What does TY know that we do not know? Could it be that demand for
    DVD-R is substantially greater than DVD+R?

    Naw.


    --

    "Yet the legislative being only a fiduciary power to act for certain
    ends, there remains still in the people a supreme power to remove or
    alter the legislative, when they find the legislative act contrary to
    the trust reposed in them....And thus the community perpetually retains
    a supreme power of saving themselves from the attempts and designs of
    any body, even of their legislators, whenever they shall be so foolish
    or so wicked as to lay and carry on designs against the liberties and
    properties of the subject."
    --John Locke
     
    Citizen Bob, Dec 6, 2006
    #15
  16. Citizen Bob wrote:
    > On Wed, 06 Dec 2006 22:45:24 +1100, rob <> wrote:
    >
    >> Sony are dropping support for DVD+R in a lot of their products now.

    >
    > Quality DVD+R (Taiyo Yuden) is more expensive than TY DVD-R at the
    > wholesale level.
    >
    > Check it out at one of the largest wholesalers on the Internet,
    > rima.com.
    >
    > What does TY know that we do not know? Could it be that demand for
    > DVD-R is substantially greater than DVD+R?
    >


    Some people might prefer the DVD-R because it can be used instantly in a
    settop unit, whereas a DVD+R needs to be formatted first and then can
    only be used in that particular settop unit.

    > Naw.
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > "Yet the legislative being only a fiduciary power to act for certain
    > ends, there remains still in the people a supreme power to remove or
    > alter the legislative, when they find the legislative act contrary to
    > the trust reposed in them....And thus the community perpetually retains
    > a supreme power of saving themselves from the attempts and designs of
    > any body, even of their legislators, whenever they shall be so foolish
    > or so wicked as to lay and carry on designs against the liberties and
    > properties of the subject."
    > --John Locke
    >
     
    Anthony Marsh, Dec 7, 2006
    #16
  17. Jan B Guest

    On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:28:41 -0500, Anthony Marsh
    <> wrote:

    >Citizen Bob wrote:

    ...
    >Some people might prefer the DVD-R because it can be used instantly in a
    >settop unit, whereas a DVD+R needs to be formatted first and then can
    >only be used in that particular settop unit.


    Perhaps you mix up the types.
    You would not format a DVD+R before the recording. You would need to
    "Finalise" both a DVD-R and DVD+R after the recording to be able to
    play them in a standard DVD-Player.

    I believe that a DVD-RW must be formatted before recording, and
    finalised afterwards to be playable in a DVD-Player (provided it is
    recorded in DVD-Video format).

    A DVD+RW does not need formatting before recording. It would be
    playable directly afterwards (after a 2 minutes automatic post-format
    process). However, if the recording is edited after the recording, a
    finalisation stage (called make compatible) is needed in order to make
    the edits visible to a DVD-player).

    There are some features in the DVD+RW and DVD+R that only works when
    played back on a similar recorder. E.g the replication of the recorded
    aspect format signalling in the SCART works when played back on a
    similar Philips +RW recorder as I recorded the disc on.

    Hope that clarifies some of the differences.
    /Jan
     
    Jan B, Dec 7, 2006
    #17
  18. Jan B wrote:
    > On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:28:41 -0500, Anthony Marsh
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Citizen Bob wrote:

    > ..
    >> Some people might prefer the DVD-R because it can be used instantly in a
    >> settop unit, whereas a DVD+R needs to be formatted first and then can
    >> only be used in that particular settop unit.

    >
    > Perhaps you mix up the types.
    > You would not format a DVD+R before the recording. You would need to
    > "Finalise" both a DVD-R and DVD+R after the recording to be able to
    > play them in a standard DVD-Player.
    >
    > I believe that a DVD-RW must be formatted before recording, and
    > finalised afterwards to be playable in a DVD-Player (provided it is
    > recorded in DVD-Video format).
    >
    > A DVD+RW does not need formatting before recording. It would be
    > playable directly afterwards (after a 2 minutes automatic post-format
    > process). However, if the recording is edited after the recording, a
    > finalisation stage (called make compatible) is needed in order to make
    > the edits visible to a DVD-player).
    >
    > There are some features in the DVD+RW and DVD+R that only works when
    > played back on a similar recorder. E.g the replication of the recorded
    > aspect format signalling in the SCART works when played back on a
    > similar Philips +RW recorder as I recorded the disc on.
    >
    > Hope that clarifies some of the differences.
    > /Jan


    Nope. I am only talking about the experiences that SOME of us have.
    Those who use the Panasonic, for example. Perhaps the LiteOn also. When
    I insert a DVD-R the unit does nothing and I can start recording once it
    recognizes it as an empty blank. When I insert a DVD+R it recognizes it
    and says UNFORMATTED and request that I format it before I can record on
    it. It doesn't take very long, but it is still annoying to some people.
    I was not talking about Finalizing. We need to do that on any type of disc.
    What advantages do you find for the DVD+R?
     
    Anthony Marsh, Dec 7, 2006
    #18
  19. Jan B Guest

    On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:31:15 -0500, Anthony Marsh
    <> wrote:

    >Jan B wrote:
    >> On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:28:41 -0500, Anthony Marsh
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Citizen Bob wrote:

    >> ..
    >>> Some people might prefer the DVD-R because it can be used instantly in a
    >>> settop unit, whereas a DVD+R needs to be formatted first and then can
    >>> only be used in that particular settop unit.

    >>
    >> Perhaps you mix up the types.
    >> You would not format a DVD+R before the recording. You would need to
    >> "Finalise" both a DVD-R and DVD+R after the recording to be able to
    >> play them in a standard DVD-Player.
    >>
    >> I believe that a DVD-RW must be formatted before recording, and
    >> finalised afterwards to be playable in a DVD-Player (provided it is
    >> recorded in DVD-Video format).
    >>
    >> A DVD+RW does not need formatting before recording. It would be
    >> playable directly afterwards (after a 2 minutes automatic post-format
    >> process). However, if the recording is edited after the recording, a
    >> finalisation stage (called make compatible) is needed in order to make
    >> the edits visible to a DVD-player).
    >>
    >> There are some features in the DVD+RW and DVD+R that only works when
    >> played back on a similar recorder. E.g the replication of the recorded
    >> aspect format signalling in the SCART works when played back on a
    >> similar Philips +RW recorder as I recorded the disc on.
    >>
    >> Hope that clarifies some of the differences.
    >> /Jan

    >
    >Nope. I am only talking about the experiences that SOME of us have.
    >Those who use the Panasonic, for example. Perhaps the LiteOn also. When
    >I insert a DVD-R the unit does nothing and I can start recording once it
    >recognizes it as an empty blank. When I insert a DVD+R it recognizes it
    >and says UNFORMATTED and request that I format it before I can record on
    >it. It doesn't take very long, but it is still annoying to some people.
    >I was not talking about Finalizing. We need to do that on any type of disc.
    >What advantages do you find for the DVD+R?


    OK. There are differences between recorder models.
    Especially when it comes to editing and extra features.

    I have Philips +RW recorders (of the older model types) which can
    record on +RW or +R. (No HDD in those.)

    I don't use DVD+R in the recorder. I burn permanent discs (mostly +R)
    on the PC after adding menus, correcting 16:9 flag etc.
    Or I just copy a +RW I edited on the recorder on to a +R if I want a
    disc to keep.

    On a PC there is no practical difference between +R and -R (besides
    the inherent buffer underrun capability of +R and compatibility
    differences one can have between recorders and players).

    The Philips standalone can record on +R right away without formatting.
    But post edits on disc (hide and new chapter marks) is only visible on
    a recorder, it can not be visible on a standard DVD-player. Only
    chapter points created while recording fare visible to a DVD-player.

    So I use +RW in the Philips recorder with the main features:
    + Records right away (without no extra formatting command).
    + Plays (and extracts) right away on a PC or standard DVD-Player.
    + Philips recorders replicates the 16:9 aspect flag in SCART connector
    as it was changing during the recording, when played back on the
    recorder.
    + Post edits (split/hide and new chapter marks) can be made compatible
    with DVD-players.

    There is one negative point.
    - Time jumps are disabled when played on a DVD-player.
    /Jan
     
    Jan B, Dec 8, 2006
    #19
  20. "Jan B" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    8< ------------------------

    >
    > I don't use DVD+R in the recorder. I burn permanent discs (mostly +R)
    > on the PC after adding menus, correcting 16:9 flag etc.
    > Or I just copy a +RW I edited on the recorder on to a +R if I want a
    > disc to keep.
    >

    I am still learning dvdr - what edit program do you use?
    I have tried a few that I have here - Roxio7 and Power Producer, not
    particularly pleased with them.
    I have Pinnacle Studio9, but have not used it in about a year - not even
    installed on this machine.

    > On a PC there is no practical difference between +R and -R (besides
    > the inherent buffer underrun capability of +R and compatibility
    > differences one can have between recorders and players).
    >
    > The Philips standalone can record on +R right away without formatting.
    > But post edits on disc (hide and new chapter marks) is only visible on
    > a recorder, it can not be visible on a standard DVD-player. Only
    > chapter points created while recording fare visible to a DVD-player.


    agreed, same experience here
    It can 'erase' its own recordings, but can not erase a rw burned on the
    computer

    >
    > So I use +RW in the Philips recorder with the main features:
    > + Records right away (without no extra formatting command).
    > + Plays (and extracts) right away on a PC or standard DVD-Player.
    > + Philips recorders replicates the 16:9 aspect flag in SCART connector
    > as it was changing during the recording, when played back on the
    > recorder.
    > + Post edits (split/hide and new chapter marks) can be made compatible
    > with DVD-players.
    >
    > There is one negative point.
    > - Time jumps are disabled when played on a DVD-player.


    Sorry - what do you mean by that?

    Stuart
     
    Stuart Miller, Dec 8, 2006
    #20
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