Is orcon limiting p2p bandwidth on UBS?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bottle Boy, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. Bottle Boy

    Bottle Boy Guest

    Just wondering if anyone else feels if orcon is actively limiting p2p
    bandwidth on UBS.
     
    Bottle Boy, Feb 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. Bottle Boy

    Mutlley Guest

    "Bottle Boy" <> wrote:

    >Just wondering if anyone else feels if orcon is actively limiting p2p
    >bandwidth on UBS.
    >


    Only in the down direction. Up goes full speed..... Well Bittorrent
    does..
     
    Mutlley, Feb 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. Bottle Boy

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Bottle Boy wrote:
    > Just wondering if anyone else feels if orcon is actively limiting p2p
    > bandwidth on UBS.
    >
    >


    Well, Bittorrent has been a little slow (it's hard to tell, as different
    torrents behave differently) but it might be due to so many sites being
    closed down now, so there are less torrent clients sharing stuff around.
     
    -=rjh=-, Feb 21, 2005
    #3
  4. Bottle Boy

    Mike_P Guest

    "Bottle Boy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Just wondering if anyone else feels if orcon is actively limiting p2p
    > bandwidth on UBS.
    >

    Well they say not, but you be the judge. WinMX has been a dead duck for
    weeks but if you change the ports...viola !, away she goes again.
     
    Mike_P, Feb 21, 2005
    #4
  5. Bottle Boy

    Bottle Boy Guest

    "Mike_P" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Well they say not, but you be the judge. WinMX has been a dead duck for
    > weeks but if you change the ports...viola !, away she goes again.


    Change the ports? How do you do this? Well actually, I don't use WinMX but I
    wonder if you can do a similar thing for bittorrent ...
     
    Bottle Boy, Feb 21, 2005
    #5
  6. Bottle Boy

    -[Myth]- Guest

    On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:19:35 +1300, Bottle Boy wrote:

    > "Mike_P" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Well they say not, but you be the judge. WinMX has been a dead duck for
    >> weeks but if you change the ports...viola !, away she goes again.

    >
    > Change the ports? How do you do this? Well actually, I don't use WinMX but I
    > wonder if you can do a similar thing for bittorrent ...


    I dont know if you can with the python client, but install azureus or
    bitcomet and you definately can. In fact most private trackers do not allow
    you to connect using the default port as so many people have problems with
    throttling on it.
     
    -[Myth]-, Feb 21, 2005
    #6
  7. Bottle Boy

    Mutley Guest

    -=rjh=- <> wrote:

    >Bottle Boy wrote:
    >> Just wondering if anyone else feels if orcon is actively limiting p2p
    >> bandwidth on UBS.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Well, Bittorrent has been a little slow (it's hard to tell, as different
    >torrents behave differently) but it might be due to so many sites being
    >closed down now, so there are less torrent clients sharing stuff around.


    Adding to my last comment about BT being slow now they seemed to have
    throttled port 119 news reader. . It has taken me 5 minutes to
    download 100 headers for this news group. I have given up on the
    other 48 news groups tonite.

    The line speed appears to be back to 32KB down normal for FTP, email
    and browsing.

    I sent them an email wonder if I will get a reply??

    Geez this is getting beyond a joke.
     
    Mutley, Feb 21, 2005
    #7
  8. Bottle Boy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Mutley wrote:
    > -=rjh=- <> wrote:
    >
    >> Bottle Boy wrote:
    >>> Just wondering if anyone else feels if orcon is actively limiting
    >>> p2p bandwidth on UBS.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Well, Bittorrent has been a little slow (it's hard to tell, as
    >> different torrents behave differently) but it might be due to so
    >> many sites being closed down now, so there are less torrent clients
    >> sharing stuff around.

    >
    > Adding to my last comment about BT being slow now they seemed to have
    > throttled port 119 news reader. . It has taken me 5 minutes to
    > download 100 headers for this news group. I have given up on the
    > other 48 news groups tonite.


    I've noticed that downloading newsgroups has become abysmally slow recently.
    I almost have to leave my PC on overnight to get my groups. (Orcon UBS).

    I have a little indicator on my desktop (always on top) that shows 0kb/s
    most of the time I'm downloading fom NIN or X-Privat, going to 1kb/s at the
    most but usually hitting 0.2 every ten seconds or so.

    I have two NNTP servers that I'm currently experimenting with that *aren't*
    on port 119 and they download really quickly, as in close to full-speed. It
    may be a cooincidence as they are both local and I thought that was the
    reason they were faster but your post now leads me to believe otherwise.

    > The line speed appears to be back to 32KB down normal for FTP, email
    > and browsing.
    >
    > I sent them an email wonder if I will get a reply??
    >
    > Geez this is getting beyond a joke.


    Isn't it though?
    --
    ~misfit~




    x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
    x-- 3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
    x-- Access to over 1 Terabyte per Day - $8.95/Month
    x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 21, 2005
    #8
  9. Bottle Boy

    Mutlley Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote:

    >Mutley wrote:
    >> -=rjh=- <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Bottle Boy wrote:
    >>>> Just wondering if anyone else feels if orcon is actively limiting
    >>>> p2p bandwidth on UBS.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Well, Bittorrent has been a little slow (it's hard to tell, as
    >>> different torrents behave differently) but it might be due to so
    >>> many sites being closed down now, so there are less torrent clients
    >>> sharing stuff around.

    >>
    >> Adding to my last comment about BT being slow now they seemed to have
    >> throttled port 119 news reader. . It has taken me 5 minutes to
    >> download 100 headers for this news group. I have given up on the
    >> other 48 news groups tonite.

    >
    >I've noticed that downloading newsgroups has become abysmally slow recently.
    >I almost have to leave my PC on overnight to get my groups. (Orcon UBS).
    >
    >I have a little indicator on my desktop (always on top) that shows 0kb/s
    >most of the time I'm downloading fom NIN or X-Privat, going to 1kb/s at the
    >most but usually hitting 0.2 every ten seconds or so.
    >
    >I have two NNTP servers that I'm currently experimenting with that *aren't*
    >on port 119 and they download really quickly, as in close to full-speed. It
    >may be a cooincidence as they are both local and I thought that was the
    >reason they were faster but your post now leads me to believe otherwise.
    >
    >> The line speed appears to be back to 32KB down normal for FTP, email
    >> and browsing.
    >>
    >> I sent them an email wonder if I will get a reply??
    >>
    >> Geez this is getting beyond a joke.

    >
    >Isn't it though?


    Yes. I changed from NNTP port 119 to something else and I am now
    getting full speed. news again..

    By the way I see they have a new set of terms and condition on their
    web site.

    Part of the UBS terms.

    "6. Speed of Services
    6.1 You acknowledge that any claims made about speed of service are
    best effort peaks and not guarantees. Speed claims are line speeds
    only and no guarantees are made for national and international
    traffic, or any particular type of traffic.
    6.2 Latency is not guaranteed, but should remain below 1000ms one-way
    across the line only. There are no jitter guarantees."
     
    Mutlley, Feb 21, 2005
    #9
  10. Mutlley wrote:
    > By the way I see they have a new set of terms and condition on their
    > web site.


    > Part of the UBS terms.
    >
    > "6. Speed of Services
    > 6.1 You acknowledge that any claims made about speed of service are
    > best effort peaks and not guarantees. Speed claims are line speeds
    > only and no guarantees are made for national and international
    > traffic, or any particular type of traffic.
    > 6.2 Latency is not guaranteed, but should remain below 1000ms one-way
    > across the line only. There are no jitter guarantees."


    Ouch... thems some nasty terms they've added.

    and saying that 1000ms one-way is just plain stupid, how can that be tested?

    I mean I know you can halve the time it takes to get there and back, but
    thats not necessarily indicitive of the one-way traffic.
     
    Dave - dave.net.nz, Feb 22, 2005
    #10
  11. Bottle Boy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Dave - dave.net.nz wrote:
    > Mutlley wrote:
    >> By the way I see they have a new set of terms and condition on their
    >> web site.

    >
    >> Part of the UBS terms.
    >>
    >> "6. Speed of Services
    >> 6.1 You acknowledge that any claims made about speed of service are
    >> best effort peaks and not guarantees. Speed claims are line speeds
    >> only and no guarantees are made for national and international
    >> traffic, or any particular type of traffic.
    >> 6.2 Latency is not guaranteed, but should remain below 1000ms one-way
    >> across the line only. There are no jitter guarantees."

    >
    > Ouch... thems some nasty terms they've added.


    You're not kidding there. The more I use UBS the more I realise just how
    good dial-up was.

    > and saying that 1000ms one-way is just plain stupid, how can that be
    > tested?
    >
    > I mean I know you can halve the time it takes to get there and back,
    > but thats not necessarily indicitive of the one-way traffic.


    1 second one way? And that's not a guarantee just a "should"? That means a
    possible 2 second delay between doing something in a game and seeing the
    result on your screen on a good day.
    --
    ~misfit~ <seriously considering dial-up again>



    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 22, 2005
    #11
  12. Bottle Boy

    Chris Mayhew Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Dave - dave.net.nz wrote:
    >
    >>Mutlley wrote:
    >>
    >>>By the way I see they have a new set of terms and condition on their
    >>>web site.

    >>
    >>>Part of the UBS terms.
    >>>
    >>>"6. Speed of Services
    >>>6.1 You acknowledge that any claims made about speed of service are
    >>>best effort peaks and not guarantees. Speed claims are line speeds
    >>>only and no guarantees are made for national and international
    >>>traffic, or any particular type of traffic.
    >>>6.2 Latency is not guaranteed, but should remain below 1000ms one-way
    >>>across the line only. There are no jitter guarantees."

    >>
    >>Ouch... thems some nasty terms they've added.

    >
    >
    > You're not kidding there. The more I use UBS the more I realise just how
    > good dial-up was.
    >
    >
    >>and saying that 1000ms one-way is just plain stupid, how can that be
    >>tested?
    >>
    >>I mean I know you can halve the time it takes to get there and back,
    >>but thats not necessarily indicitive of the one-way traffic.

    >
    >
    > 1 second one way? And that's not a guarantee just a "should"? That means a
    > possible 2 second delay between doing something in a game and seeing the
    > result on your screen on a good day.
    > --
    > ~misfit~ <seriously considering dial-up again>
    >
    >
    >
    > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----


    I also note that when people complain about Orcon, other people don't
    jump to their defence any more, maybe they are just sick of defending
    Orcon or maybe they think the complains don't deserve defending against.....

    When I heard the first lot of complaints I wrote to Orcon requesting
    that I not be changed over, they ignored my correspondence and changed
    me over anyway, and ended up paying twice for one month due to the
    Telecom billing cycle scam.

    IMO, Orcon are as bad as Telecom in their own way.

    I'll be sticking with Orcon for as long as I am in my current location
    and then I'll look at which ISP to go with when I shift - it's piss poor
    to have to pay the Telecom $99 churn scam fee to change ISP's because
    your current choice is so piss poor at virtually everything they do.


    --
     
    Chris Mayhew, Feb 22, 2005
    #12
  13. Bottle Boy

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Chris Mayhew wrote:

    >
    > I also note that when people complain about Orcon, other people don't
    > jump to their defence any more, maybe they are just sick of defending
    > Orcon or maybe they think the complains don't deserve defending
    > against.....
    >


    I used to defend them, but I can't do that any longer. It is around 5
    months since the UBS debacle started, and there are still problems with
    it; totally unacceptable.

    News and email don't work reliably; and their autoresponse now says it
    takes 96 hours for a human to see email sent to customer support. That
    is almost a whole work week. It is quicker to send them snail mail (and
    I might do that).
     
    -=rjh=-, Feb 22, 2005
    #13
  14. Bottle Boy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    -=rjh=- wrote:
    > Chris Mayhew wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I also note that when people complain about Orcon, other people
    >> don't jump to their defence any more, maybe they are just sick of
    >> defending Orcon or maybe they think the complains don't deserve
    >> defending against.....
    >>

    >
    > I used to defend them, but I can't do that any longer. It is around 5
    > months since the UBS debacle started, and there are still problems
    > with it; totally unacceptable.
    >
    > News and email don't work reliably; and their autoresponse now says it
    > takes 96 hours for a human to see email sent to customer support. That
    > is almost a whole work week. It is quicker to send them snail mail
    > (and I might do that).


    LOL, I used to be one of the staunch Orcon defenders too. Oh, the irony!
    You'd think they would have taken note of who was defending them in here and
    give them at least the service they were paying for. All those posts
    defending them and now I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire after
    they've been taking over twice as much money from me than I was paying for
    dial-up and giving me a "service" that is inferior to dial-up.
    --
    ~misfit~




    x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
    x-- 3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
    x-- Access to over 1 Terabyte per Day - $8.95/Month
    x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 22, 2005
    #14
  15. Bottle Boy

    J.wilson Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > -=rjh=- wrote:
    >> Chris Mayhew wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I also note that when people complain about Orcon, other people
    >>> don't jump to their defence any more, maybe they are just sick of
    >>> defending Orcon or maybe they think the complains don't deserve
    >>> defending against.....
    >>>

    >>
    >> I used to defend them, but I can't do that any longer. It is around 5
    >> months since the UBS debacle started, and there are still problems
    >> with it; totally unacceptable.
    >>
    >> News and email don't work reliably; and their autoresponse now says it
    >> takes 96 hours for a human to see email sent to customer support. That
    >> is almost a whole work week. It is quicker to send them snail mail
    >> (and I might do that).

    >
    > LOL, I used to be one of the staunch Orcon defenders too. Oh, the irony!
    > You'd think they would have taken note of who was defending them in here
    > and
    > give them at least the service they were paying for. All those posts
    > defending them and now I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire after
    > they've been taking over twice as much money from me than I was paying for
    > dial-up and giving me a "service" that is inferior to dial-up.
    > --
    > ~misfit~



    http://www.idg.net.nz/news.nsf/0/1D33694A73119C1CCC256F56000F1A13?opendocument&pub=Computerworld

    I read this which sort of explains Orcon's problems and learned that UBS is
    Unbundled Bitstream Service but exactly what's
    different about it from adsl?
     
    J.wilson, Feb 22, 2005
    #15
  16. On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:28:16 +1300, -=rjh=- wrote:

    > Chris Mayhew wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I also note that when people complain about Orcon, other people don't
    >> jump to their defence any more, maybe they are just sick of defending
    >> Orcon or maybe they think the complains don't deserve defending
    >> against.....
    >>

    >
    > I used to defend them, but I can't do that any longer. It is around 5
    > months since the UBS debacle started, and there are still problems with
    > it; totally unacceptable.
    >
    > News and email don't work reliably; and their autoresponse now says it
    > takes 96 hours for a human to see email sent to customer support. That
    > is almost a whole work week. It is quicker to send them snail mail (and
    > I might do that).


    I tell everyone I know that Orcon is crap. Those TV ads just piss me off.
    Time to cancel the credit card payments me thinks, they can just send the
    bill by snail mail .. I might even open them one day ..

    Thier own web based forums are a joke to read.
     
    wogers nemesis, Feb 22, 2005
    #16
  17. Bottle Boy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    J.wilson wrote:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> -=rjh=- wrote:
    >>> Chris Mayhew wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I also note that when people complain about Orcon, other people
    >>>> don't jump to their defence any more, maybe they are just sick of
    >>>> defending Orcon or maybe they think the complains don't deserve
    >>>> defending against.....
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> I used to defend them, but I can't do that any longer. It is around
    >>> 5 months since the UBS debacle started, and there are still problems
    >>> with it; totally unacceptable.
    >>>
    >>> News and email don't work reliably; and their autoresponse now says
    >>> it takes 96 hours for a human to see email sent to customer
    >>> support. That is almost a whole work week. It is quicker to send
    >>> them snail mail (and I might do that).

    >>
    >> LOL, I used to be one of the staunch Orcon defenders too. Oh, the
    >> irony! You'd think they would have taken note of who was defending
    >> them in here and
    >> give them at least the service they were paying for. All those posts
    >> defending them and now I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire
    >> after they've been taking over twice as much money from me than I
    >> was paying for dial-up and giving me a "service" that is inferior to
    >> dial-up. --
    >> ~misfit~

    >
    >
    >

    http://www.idg.net.nz/news.nsf/0/1D33694A73119C1CCC256F56000F1A13?opendocume
    nt&pub=Computerworld
    >
    > I read this which sort of explains Orcon's problems and learned that
    > UBS is Unbundled Bitstream Service but exactly what's
    > different about it from adsl?


    Firstly, that article is from November last year and the situation is
    actually worse now. That's when I got onto UBS and, although it wasn't the
    bee's knees, it was better than it is now.

    UBS is wholesaled access to Telecom's ADSL service. It's a compromise they
    foisted on the commerce commision instead of unbundling. Basically, before
    UBS there was Jetstream/start, a package put together by Telecom that other
    ISP's could on-sell and put 5% on top of. Everything was equal except
    Telecom was making the bulk of the profit, it almost wasn't profitable for
    ISP's to provide jetstream except to stay in the market.

    The commerce commision decided that this was anti-competitive behaviour and
    tantamount to a monopoly and were going to force Telecom to open up it's
    lines to anyone who wanted to use them, refered to as "unbundling the local
    loop", allowing other ISPs to handle supplying their own ADSL and bandwidth
    without telecom having anything to do with it, other than charging them a
    small fee for the use of the copper.

    After Telecom licked the commerce commision's balls and gave them a few
    thousand ipods they capitulated and decided instead that Telecom had to
    "unbundle" just the ADSL packages, not the whole of the local loop.
    Essentially this means that Telecom still provides all the bandwidth to the
    ISPs but they are no longer selling their extremely profitable little
    "jetxxxxxx" cash-cows that essentially kept us in the dark ages. Enter
    Unbundled Bitstream, or UBS. Telecom sell it in bigger chuncks than the
    'ready to eat' jetxxxx packages and the ISPs are allowed to onsell it
    however they like.

    However, Telecom, being the totally amoral blood-sucking parasites that they
    are, realised that, although they were compelled to comply with the commerce
    commision's ruling, they could **** around for ever and a day providing the
    service, all the while quoting non-existant problems. They also realised
    that the commerce commision only said they had to provide the service, they
    didn't specify anything like how reliable it had to be or if it had
    reasonable latency etc. Telecom, to preserve it's market share (It's own
    offerings don't suffer from *any* problems that they claim plague the
    service they have to provide for others such as Orcon) have essentially made
    sure that UBS is a distinctly third-rate service. It's got so bad that Orcon
    had to change it's terms and conditions of use, as quoted here, to reflect
    the absolute rubbish service they are getting from Telecom and protect
    themselves.

    So, to answer your question, UBS *is* ADSL but just not provided directly
    from Telecom. (ADSL simply stands for Asynchronous Digital Subscriber Line,
    asynchronous as the 'up' speed is usually different from the 'down' speed).

    Incidently, we would never have seen these 2MB packages from Telecom if UBS
    hadn't came about. We'd still be paying through the nose for 128KB.

    So my great-sounding deal that I signed up for has turned out to be a lemon,
    hardly better than dial-up as far as download speeds go and far worse than
    dial-up as far as latency goes. For three times the price.

    You'd think that Telecom would buy me a drink or give me some flowers. Even
    whisper sweet nothings in my ear. I usually like a little romance before I
    get fucked. And poor Orcon are having to bend over and spread for Theresa
    and her strap-on. They tried to offer the punter a really good deal and
    aggressively advertised it, only to have Telecom firstly change the rules on
    them (no advertising fixed IPs and no uncapped packages) and then take so
    long to provide an unacceptable service that Orcon is getting some of the
    worst press (especially here) that you could possibly get. All because
    Telecom are playing their "bleed the public for all they can bear" games
    again.

    I'll shut up now, it's late and, insomnia or no, I have to get *some* sleep.
    --
    ~misfit~



    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 22, 2005
    #17
  18. Bottle Boy

    ~misfit~ Guest

    wogers nemesis wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:28:16 +1300, -=rjh=- wrote:
    >
    >> Chris Mayhew wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I also note that when people complain about Orcon, other people
    >>> don't jump to their defence any more, maybe they are just sick of
    >>> defending Orcon or maybe they think the complains don't deserve
    >>> defending against.....
    >>>

    >>
    >> I used to defend them, but I can't do that any longer. It is around 5
    >> months since the UBS debacle started, and there are still problems
    >> with it; totally unacceptable.
    >>
    >> News and email don't work reliably; and their autoresponse now says
    >> it takes 96 hours for a human to see email sent to customer support.
    >> That is almost a whole work week. It is quicker to send them snail
    >> mail (and I might do that).

    >
    > I tell everyone I know that Orcon is crap. Those TV ads just piss me
    > off. Time to cancel the credit card payments me thinks, they can just
    > send the bill by snail mail .. I might even open them one day ..
    >
    > Thier own web based forums are a joke to read.


    I know I've been slanging Orcon off a little myself recently but you have to
    look past the end of your nose. They can only move on what they get from
    Telecom and frankly Telecom, having the NZ government by the balls, can do
    what it likes. And it is, it's sabotaging the bigger players out there and
    it's working. Slagging off Orcon is like shooting the messenger, a
    satisfying and easy way to ease your frustrations. I know, I've been doing
    it. Ultimately it's wrong though.

    Face it, we're powerless and Orcon isn't in a much better position when it
    comes to Telecom and it's tame politicians.

    I applaud Orcon for having those forums. How many other business' would be
    as honourable as to provide a forum for their customers to tell the world
    that they are dissatisfied? If that was Telecom they'd have shut them down
    long ago.
    --
    ~misfit~



    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
     
    ~misfit~, Feb 22, 2005
    #18
  19. -=rjh=- wrote:
    > News and email don't work reliably; and their autoresponse now says it
    > takes 96 hours for a human to see email sent to customer support. That
    > is almost a whole work week. It is quicker to send them snail mail (and
    > I might do that).


    96 hours... shit, and I thought ones saying 48 were bad enough.
     
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Feb 22, 2005
    #19
  20. Bottle Boy

    Chris Mayhew Guest

    wogers nemesis wrote:

    >
    > I tell everyone I know that Orcon is crap. Those TV ads just piss me off.
    > Time to cancel the credit card payments me thinks, they can just send the
    > bill by snail mail .. I might even open them one day ..
    >
    > Thier own web based forums are a joke to read.


    Cancelling the CC payments is harder than you think. I paid the first
    payment by CC and asked that my CC details be deleted from their
    accounting system. They assured me they would be, but I found that they
    weren't and after 5 or 6 requests and conformations from Orcon that my
    CC details have been deleted, I wonder if they ever have. I even have
    it in writing that they have been deleted, but later found that was not
    the case.

    There is one person in their web forums that always jumps to Orcon's
    defence, apparently they have perfect UBS service..

    I wonder what "ORCON" actually stands for ?

    --
     
    Chris Mayhew, Feb 22, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

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