Is it considered spam or gratutious commercialism ?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Ryan Jacobs, Jun 18, 2004.

  1. Ryan Jacobs

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    This might seem an odd question, but here goes........

    A friend of mine runs a "techie" business. He now sells computer stuff (at
    what I would consider reasonable prices). He doesn't sub to this group or
    any Usenet group. I have told him that people here discuss buying product X
    or product Y at whatever price. And, I know his prices are usually much
    cheaper (for the identical brand-name product).

    So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group to
    "point" someone in the direction of a good deal? His attitude is that he
    doesn't want to "spam" a group and therefore give his business a bad name.

    I'd be interested in hearing some comments - both for and against any
    "pointing" in a certain direction.


    Cheers


    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Jun 18, 2004
    #1
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  2. Ryan Jacobs

    theseus Guest

    Ryan Jacobs wrote:

    > This might seem an odd question, but here goes........
    >
    > A friend of mine runs a "techie" business. He now sells computer stuff (at
    > what I would consider reasonable prices). He doesn't sub to this group or
    > any Usenet group. I have told him that people here discuss buying product
    > X or product Y at whatever price. And, I know his prices are usually much
    > cheaper (for the identical brand-name product).
    >
    > So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group to
    > "point" someone in the direction of a good deal? His attitude is that he
    > doesn't want to "spam" a group and therefore give his business a bad name.
    >
    > I'd be interested in hearing some comments - both for and against any
    > "pointing" in a certain direction.
    >
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    >
    > RJ out.


    If he is participating in the newsgroup, a link in a sig is usually
    acceptable, but anything more stirs up the nannies.
    If you check out Mauricio Freitas' posts you will find quite a comprehensive
    sig with links to his site geekzone.
    He's not overtly commercial with his content so he doesn't get any flack
    There is a nz.biz.misc group but probably not viewed by many here.
    theseus, Jun 18, 2004
    #2
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  3. Ryan Jacobs

    Adam Warner Guest

    Hi Ryan Jacobs,

    > So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group to
    > "point" someone in the direction of a good deal?


    It's helpful and appropriate so long as:

    (a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    (b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.

    Regards,
    Adam
    Adam Warner, Jun 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Ryan Jacobs

    thing Guest

    Adam Warner wrote:
    > Hi Ryan Jacobs,
    >
    >
    >>So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group to
    >>"point" someone in the direction of a good deal?

    >
    >
    > It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    >
    > (a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    > (b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Adam


    I think if someone asks about X and Y says I sell it, at $z then I dont
    see that as OTT personally. Constantly putting up price lists or
    trolling with "specials" is obviously not acceptable I would suggest.

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Jun 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Ryan Jacobs

    Patrick Bold Guest

    "thing" <> wrote in message
    news:zJIAc.3128$...
    > >
    > >>So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group

    to
    > >>"point" someone in the direction of a good deal?

    > >
    > >
    > > It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    > >
    > > (a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    > > (b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    > >

    >
    > I think if someone asks about X and Y says I sell it, at $z then I

    dont
    > see that as OTT personally. Constantly putting up price lists or
    > trolling with "specials" is obviously not acceptable I would suggest.
    >


    Some people will always think it's convenient to post requests for
    prices in nz.comp, and that's understandable. A lot of people know each
    other here, many are themeselves involved in the business, and so it
    seems like a natural topic to chat about. Problem is, once you open the
    door to retail shopping, there's no stopping it. How exactly do you
    distinguish an "independent and genuine" request for prices from one
    linked to a commercial promotion? How do you logically permit a dealer
    to post a single price but not a price list, especially if someone
    specifically requests a list? Does every dealer get a free pass, or just
    the ones in the old-boys network? Such an ambiguous policy can't help
    but lead to confusion and ill-feeling.

    All requests for prices in this newsgroup, IMHO, should be re-directed
    to Google, where retail websites in NZ can readily be identified and
    where those looking for comparative information can be better served.
    Patrick Bold, Jun 19, 2004
    #5
  6. Ryan Jacobs

    Collector_NZ Guest

    Patrick Bold said the following on 19/06/2004 11:08:

    > "thing" <> wrote in message
    > news:zJIAc.3128$...
    >
    >>>>So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group

    >
    > to
    >
    >>>>"point" someone in the direction of a good deal?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    >>>
    >>>(a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    >>>(b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    >>>

    >>
    >>I think if someone asks about X and Y says I sell it, at $z then I

    >
    > dont
    >
    >>see that as OTT personally. Constantly putting up price lists or
    >>trolling with "specials" is obviously not acceptable I would suggest.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Some people will always think it's convenient to post requests for
    > prices in nz.comp, and that's understandable. A lot of people know each
    > other here, many are themeselves involved in the business, and so it
    > seems like a natural topic to chat about. Problem is, once you open the
    > door to retail shopping, there's no stopping it. How exactly do you
    > distinguish an "independent and genuine" request for prices from one
    > linked to a commercial promotion? How do you logically permit a dealer
    > to post a single price but not a price list, especially if someone
    > specifically requests a list? Does every dealer get a free pass, or just
    > the ones in the old-boys network? Such an ambiguous policy can't help
    > but lead to confusion and ill-feeling.
    >
    > All requests for prices in this newsgroup, IMHO, should be re-directed
    > to Google, where retail websites in NZ can readily be identified and
    > where those looking for comparative information can be better served.
    >
    >

    The answer is Pricespy http://www.pricespy.co.nz/
    Saves a lot of hargy bargey
    Collector_NZ, Jun 19, 2004
    #6
  7. Ryan Jacobs

    Patrick Bold Guest

    "Collector_NZ" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >


    > >
    > > All requests for prices in this newsgroup, IMHO, should be

    re-directed
    > > to Google, where retail websites in NZ can readily be identified and
    > > where those looking for comparative information can be better

    served.
    > >
    > >

    > The answer is Pricespy http://www.pricespy.co.nz/
    > Saves a lot of hargy bargey


    Yes, perfect.
    Patrick Bold, Jun 19, 2004
    #7
  8. Ryan Jacobs

    cowboyz Guest

    Adam Warner wrote:
    > Hi Ryan Jacobs,
    >
    >> So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group to
    >> "point" someone in the direction of a good deal?

    >
    > It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    >
    > (a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    > (b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Adam


    Nz.comp is for people bragging and abusing each other - not for selling
    goods. If you start letting it ok for commercial outfits to post prices
    then your gonna get a shitload of oneupmanship coming into the group. I'll
    stand on the "No" side.
    cowboyz, Jun 19, 2004
    #8
  9. Ryan Jacobs

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "thing" <> wrote in message
    news:zJIAc.3128$...
    > Adam Warner wrote:
    > > Hi Ryan Jacobs,
    > >
    > >
    > >>So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group to
    > >>"point" someone in the direction of a good deal?

    > >
    > >
    > > It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    > >
    > > (a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    > > (b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > Adam

    >
    > I think if someone asks about X and Y says I sell it, at $z then I dont
    > see that as OTT personally. Constantly putting up price lists or
    > trolling with "specials" is obviously not acceptable I would suggest.
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    I agree. Which is why I asked the question. I just wanted to clarify what I
    "suspected" other people thought . I can see there would be very fine line
    between providing "a pointer" and "overt commercialism".

    I guess the best road to take, would be to stay silent.

    Thanks for your input :)

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Jun 19, 2004
    #9
  10. Ryan Jacobs

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Patrick Bold" <> wrote in message
    news:40d37636$...
    > "thing" <> wrote in message
    > news:zJIAc.3128$...
    > > >
    > > >>So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group

    > to
    > > >>"point" someone in the direction of a good deal?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    > > >
    > > > (a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    > > > (b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    > > >

    > >
    > > I think if someone asks about X and Y says I sell it, at $z then I

    > dont
    > > see that as OTT personally. Constantly putting up price lists or
    > > trolling with "specials" is obviously not acceptable I would suggest.
    > >

    >
    > Some people will always think it's convenient to post requests for
    > prices in nz.comp, and that's understandable. A lot of people know each
    > other here, many are themeselves involved in the business, and so it
    > seems like a natural topic to chat about. Problem is, once you open the
    > door to retail shopping, there's no stopping it.


    Good point.

    > How exactly do you
    > distinguish an "independent and genuine" request for prices from one
    > linked to a commercial promotion? How do you logically permit a dealer
    > to post a single price but not a price list, especially if someone
    > specifically requests a list?


    Well, since this is an unmoderated group, I guess you cant permit or allow
    anyone to do anything. The only recourse would be to flame the crap out of
    the individual. But someone who was crass enough the use this group for
    overt commercialism would probably be too stupid to recognise the harm done
    to their business!?

    Which leads me to another question. IS there another nz.* group where overt
    commercialism is allowed and encouraged? If so, then I could direct my buddy
    to that group.

    >Does every dealer get a free pass, or just
    > the ones in the old-boys network? Such an ambiguous policy can't help
    > but lead to confusion and ill-feeling.


    I might have missed something here. I don't quite follow what you mean. :)


    >
    > All requests for prices in this newsgroup, IMHO, should be re-directed
    > to Google, where retail websites in NZ can readily be identified and
    > where those looking for comparative information can be better served.
    >
    >


    Again, another good point, but "retail" is hardly ever the place to get the
    best prices.

    Thanks.

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Jun 19, 2004
    #10
  11. Ryan Jacobs

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Collector_NZ" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Patrick Bold said the following on 19/06/2004 11:08:
    >
    > > "thing" <> wrote in message
    > > news:zJIAc.3128$...
    > >
    > >>>>So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group

    > >
    > > to
    > >
    > >>>>"point" someone in the direction of a good deal?
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    > >>>
    > >>>(a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    > >>>(b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>I think if someone asks about X and Y says I sell it, at $z then I

    > >
    > > dont
    > >
    > >>see that as OTT personally. Constantly putting up price lists or
    > >>trolling with "specials" is obviously not acceptable I would suggest.
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > Some people will always think it's convenient to post requests for
    > > prices in nz.comp, and that's understandable. A lot of people know each
    > > other here, many are themeselves involved in the business, and so it
    > > seems like a natural topic to chat about. Problem is, once you open the
    > > door to retail shopping, there's no stopping it. How exactly do you
    > > distinguish an "independent and genuine" request for prices from one
    > > linked to a commercial promotion? How do you logically permit a dealer
    > > to post a single price but not a price list, especially if someone
    > > specifically requests a list? Does every dealer get a free pass, or just
    > > the ones in the old-boys network? Such an ambiguous policy can't help
    > > but lead to confusion and ill-feeling.
    > >
    > > All requests for prices in this newsgroup, IMHO, should be re-directed
    > > to Google, where retail websites in NZ can readily be identified and
    > > where those looking for comparative information can be better served.
    > >
    > >

    > The answer is Pricespy http://www.pricespy.co.nz/
    > Saves a lot of hargy bargey


    Yeah, excellent site. But, it is limited in some respects (narrow range of
    hardware, and zero software).

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Jun 19, 2004
    #11
  12. Ryan Jacobs

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:cb07m7$pol$...
    > Adam Warner wrote:
    > > Hi Ryan Jacobs,
    > >
    > >> So, my question is, is it considered too commercial for this group to
    > >> "point" someone in the direction of a good deal?

    > >
    > > It's helpful and appropriate so long as:
    > >
    > > (a) Someone has asked for the information; and
    > > (b) The person asking for advice is independent and genuine.
    > >
    > > Regards,
    > > Adam

    >
    > Nz.comp is for people bragging and abusing each other


    Hey now, I am sure that is not the intended reason nz.comp exists :)

    >- not for selling
    > goods. If you start letting it ok for commercial outfits to post prices
    > then your gonna get a shitload of oneupmanship coming into the group.

    I'll
    > stand on the "No" side.
    >
    >


    I agree. Again, I just wanted to clarify the sentiments of the "regs" here.
    I think your NO vote seems to be in the majority, and I think that's a fair
    vote.

    So, I will go with the majority, and remain silent.

    Thanks to all for your input.

    RJ out.
    Ryan Jacobs, Jun 19, 2004
    #12
  13. Ryan Jacobs wrote
    > I'd be interested in hearing some comments - both for and against any
    > "pointing" in a certain direction.


    it would depend on how it was done.

    if it were done for every question regarding a product, it'd piss a lot of
    people right off.

    if he were a regular in here, then it would be more widely accepted, as he
    would be part of the group trying to help out, not an "outsider"
    advertising... it's a fine line.

    are you new here? I don't recognise your name either. :)
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 19, 2004
    #13
  14. Ryan Jacobs wrote
    > Which leads me to another question. IS there another nz.* group where

    overt
    > commercialism is allowed and encouraged? If so, then I could direct my

    buddy
    > to that group.


    nz.biz.misc

    although I don't know of anyone who has ever subscribed to it.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Jun 19, 2004
    #14
  15. Ryan Jacobs

    Craig Shore Guest

    On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:08:23 +1200, "Ryan Jacobs" <>
    wrote:

    >I guess the best road to take, would be to stay silent.


    As someone else said, a url in a signature is usually seen as acceptable. So if
    your friend did that, and contributed to this group, his url would be seen.
    By contribute I mean unrelated to trying to sell his stuff, as in reading the
    posts here and adding to the discussion / answering the questions.
    Craig Shore, Jun 19, 2004
    #15
  16. "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_please.dave.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Ryan Jacobs wrote
    > > Which leads me to another question. IS there another nz.* group where

    > overt
    > > commercialism is allowed and encouraged? If so, then I could direct my

    > buddy
    > > to that group.

    >
    > nz.biz.misc
    >
    > although I don't know of anyone who has ever subscribed to it.
    >


    I think nz.biz.misc is a moderated newsgroup, and two of the moderators left
    the position a couple of years ago. Then I read that the last one was going
    to leave the job as well, and I haven't seen much there since (but I don't
    check it anymore).

    Don't quote me on this :)

    --
    Mauricio Freitas, Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices
    Bluetooth guides: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=449
    Performance Centre (Pocket PC reviews):
    http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?ContentId=2028
    Handango discount: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/handango_code.asp
    Mauricio Freitas, Jun 19, 2004
    #16
  17. Ryan Jacobs

    Ryan Jacobs Guest

    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <dave@no_spam_please.dave.net.nz> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > are you new here? I don't recognise your name either. :)
    >
    >


    Well, new is a relative word :)

    I have been a long time lurker who doesn't post much. When I have posted
    (infrequently over the past few years), I have used various nicks which are
    purely "whatever comes into my head at the time". I guess I just got a rush
    of blood to my head, and decided that it was time to come out of the closet.
    Yikes, not that closet (bring your mind out of the gutter), the other
    closet.

    But of course, givin what I just said - am I really me, or am I something
    else?

    Sorry, just my weird humour coming through, I hope you understand :)
    Ryan Jacobs, Jun 19, 2004
    #17
  18. In message <>, Craig Shore
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:08:23 +1200, "Ryan Jacobs" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>I guess the best road to take, would be to stay silent.

    >
    >As someone else said, a url in a signature is usually seen as acceptable. So if
    >your friend did that, and contributed to this group, his url would be seen.
    >By contribute I mean unrelated to trying to sell his stuff, as in reading the
    >posts here and adding to the discussion / answering the questions.


    ....and if, while he's doing that, someone posts a request for a price
    on something he sells, there's no reason why he couldn't e-mail them a
    response.

    --
    R.G. "Stumpy" Marsh.
    R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh, Jun 19, 2004
    #18
  19. Ryan Jacobs

    Patrick Bold Guest

    "R. G. 'Stumpy' Marsh" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > >
    > >As someone else said, a url in a signature is usually seen as

    acceptable. So if
    > >your friend did that, and contributed to this group, his url would be

    seen.
    > >By contribute I mean unrelated to trying to sell his stuff, as in

    reading the
    > >posts here and adding to the discussion / answering the questions.

    >
    > ...and if, while he's doing that, someone posts a request for a price
    > on something he sells, there's no reason why he couldn't e-mail them a
    > response.
    >


    Good point. If a person insists on using this newsgroup to solicit price
    info, they should include an email address and request that all
    responses be directed there. Then there would be no issue of
    commercialism at all.
    Patrick Bold, Jun 19, 2004
    #19
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