Is HD-DVD 1080p?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Goro, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. Goro

    Goro Guest

    I posted this on another thread, but figured it warranted a separate
    thread on its own.

    The amazon listign for the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ref=sr_1_2/102-9898828-4501747?_encoding=UTF8

    Gives this as a feature:

    "High-definition DVD playback via HDMI interface at 720p/1080i
    resolution"

    And later says this:

    "The HD-A1 connects via HDMI to provide 720p/1080i resolution in the
    native format of HD-DVD disc content."

    This implies that the HD-DVD content is 720p/1080i, but i thot both
    HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were 1080p. Certainly the packagin for BluRay discs
    says, "1080p" (Beyond HD!) on it.

    I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.

    -goro-
     
    Goro, Jan 6, 2006
    #1
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  2. Goro

    jolt Guest

    "Goro" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I posted this on another thread, but figured it warranted a separate
    > thread on its own.
    >
    > The amazon listign for the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player
    > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ref=sr_1_2/102-9898828-4501747?_encoding=UTF8
    >
    > Gives this as a feature:
    >
    > "High-definition DVD playback via HDMI interface at 720p/1080i
    > resolution"
    >
    > And later says this:
    >
    > "The HD-A1 connects via HDMI to provide 720p/1080i resolution in the
    > native format of HD-DVD disc content."
    >
    > This implies that the HD-DVD content is 720p/1080i, but i thot both
    > HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were 1080p. Certainly the packagin for BluRay discs
    > says, "1080p" (Beyond HD!) on it.
    >
    > I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    > 1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.
    >
    > -goro-
    >



    HD_DVD max res 1080i. That maybe why Sony has already started to comment
    that 1080p is the only true HD.
     
    jolt, Jan 6, 2006
    #2
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  3. Goro

    Miltion Guest

    YEs but so is 720p and 1080i. 1080p is better than the both of them
    though. But the other two look nice to :)


    On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:39:33 -0500, "jolt" <> wrote:

    >"Goro" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>I posted this on another thread, but figured it warranted a separate
    >> thread on its own.
    >>
    >> The amazon listign for the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player
    >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ref=sr_1_2/102-9898828-4501747?_encoding=UTF8
    >>
    >> Gives this as a feature:
    >>
    >> "High-definition DVD playback via HDMI interface at 720p/1080i
    >> resolution"
    >>
    >> And later says this:
    >>
    >> "The HD-A1 connects via HDMI to provide 720p/1080i resolution in the
    >> native format of HD-DVD disc content."
    >>
    >> This implies that the HD-DVD content is 720p/1080i, but i thot both
    >> HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were 1080p. Certainly the packagin for BluRay discs
    >> says, "1080p" (Beyond HD!) on it.
    >>
    >> I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    >> 1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.
    >>
    >> -goro-
    >>

    >
    >
    >HD_DVD max res 1080i. That maybe why Sony has already started to comment
    >that 1080p is the only true HD.
    >
     
    Miltion, Jan 6, 2006
    #3
  4. Goro

    Alpha Guest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

    The low-end Toshiba HD DVD player does not do 1080p. However, note that
    1080i60 is supported (60 frames).


    "Goro" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I posted this on another thread, but figured it warranted a separate
    > thread on its own.
    >
    > The amazon listign for the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player
    > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ref=sr_1_2/102-9898828-4501747?_encoding=UTF8
    >
    > Gives this as a feature:
    >
    > "High-definition DVD playback via HDMI interface at 720p/1080i
    > resolution"
    >
    > And later says this:
    >
    > "The HD-A1 connects via HDMI to provide 720p/1080i resolution in the
    > native format of HD-DVD disc content."
    >
    > This implies that the HD-DVD content is 720p/1080i, but i thot both
    > HD-DVD and Blu-Ray were 1080p. Certainly the packagin for BluRay discs
    > says, "1080p" (Beyond HD!) on it.
    >
    > I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    > 1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.
    >
    > -goro-
    >
     
    Alpha, Jan 6, 2006
    #4
  5. Steve Roberts, Jan 6, 2006
    #5
  6. Goro

    Alpha Guest

    "Steve Roberts" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:42:30 -0800, "Alpha" <> wrote:
    >
    >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p
    >>
    >>The low-end Toshiba HD DVD player does not do 1080p. However, note that
    >>1080i60 is supported (60 frames).

    >
    > No, 60 interlaced fields, not frames.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    > The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    > http://www.restoration-team.co.uk


    You are correct.
     
    Alpha, Jan 6, 2006
    #6
  7. Goro

    Alpha Guest

    "Alpha" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Steve Roberts" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:42:30 -0800, "Alpha" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p
    >>>
    >>>The low-end Toshiba HD DVD player does not do 1080p. However, note that
    >>>1080i60 is supported (60 frames).

    >>
    >> No, 60 interlaced fields, not frames.
    >>
    >> Steve
    >>
    >> The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    >> http://www.restoration-team.co.uk

    >
    > You are correct.
    >
    >
    >


    I retract that. The format is: lines,format,frames....hence 1080
    interlaced 60 frames. Try Google.
     
    Alpha, Jan 6, 2006
    #7
  8. On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:55:55 -0800, "Alpha" <> wrote:

    >I retract that. The format is: lines,format,frames....hence 1080
    >interlaced 60 frames. Try Google.


    I work with 1080i 50 every day of the week - it's the HD equivalent of
    625i 50 (more correctly 576i 50), the standard definition interlaced
    format. Likewise 1080i 60 is the HD equivalent of 525i 60 (480i 60).

    1080i 60 is 1080 lines interlaced together using 60 fields (30 frames
    containing two interlaced fields each) per second.

    Steve


    The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    http://www.restoration-team.co.uk
     
    Steve Roberts, Jan 6, 2006
    #8
  9. Goro

    Alpha Guest

    "Steve Roberts" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:55:55 -0800, "Alpha" <> wrote:
    >
    >>I retract that. The format is: lines,format,frames....hence 1080
    >>interlaced 60 frames. Try Google.

    >
    > I work with 1080i 50 every day of the week - it's the HD equivalent of
    > 625i 50 (more correctly 576i 50), the standard definition interlaced
    > format. Likewise 1080i 60 is the HD equivalent of 525i 60 (480i 60).
    >
    > 1080i 60 is 1080 lines interlaced together using 60 fields (30 frames
    > containing two interlaced fields each) per second.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >
    > The Doctor Who Restoration Team Website
    > http://www.restoration-team.co.uk


    There is certainly confusion here (the Wikipedia article for example). I
    find you are correct:

    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/1080i60
     
    Alpha, Jan 6, 2006
    #9
  10. Goro

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "Goro" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    > 1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.


    Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are stored on disc in 1080p format. The initial
    HD-DVD player from Toshiba will only support output at 720p or 1080i
    resolutions (not all of the Blu-Ray players will support 1080p output
    either, just the most expensive ones like the $1800 Pioneer). 1080p
    output will most likely be activated on HD-DVD for the second generation
    of players, which will coincide with a time when there is more than a
    handful of 1080p displays on the market that can accept such a signal
    anyway.

    The internet rumors that HD-DVD was permanently limited to 1080i are
    pure FUD from Blu-Ray supporters trying to stymie the HD-DVD launch.
     
    Joshua Zyber, Jan 7, 2006
    #10
  11. Goro

    Alpha Guest

    "Joshua Zyber" <> wrote in message
    news:_wDvf.3150$...
    > "Goro" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    >> 1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.

    >
    > Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are stored on disc in 1080p format. The initial
    > HD-DVD player from Toshiba will only support output at 720p or 1080i
    > resolutions (not all of the Blu-Ray players will support 1080p output
    > either, just the most expensive ones like the $1800 Pioneer). 1080p output
    > will most likely be activated on HD-DVD for the second generation of
    > players, which will coincide with a time when there is more than a handful
    > of 1080p displays on the market that can accept such a signal anyway.
    >
    > The internet rumors that HD-DVD was permanently limited to 1080i are pure
    > FUD from Blu-Ray supporters trying to stymie the HD-DVD launch.
    >


    Many thanks for this cogent information.

    The current presentation hype at conferences borders on the fraudulent. I
    say Blu Ray compared to standard DVD where the DVD version was obviously a
    poor to travesty transfer (poor coloration etc) and the Blu Ray thus
    appeared prestine. How easy to deceive in this domain!

    Caveat Emptor and beware of snake oil.
     
    Alpha, Jan 7, 2006
    #11
  12. Goro

    Company Man Guest

    "Alpha" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > The current presentation hype at conferences borders on the fraudulent. I
    > say Blu Ray compared to standard DVD where the DVD version was obviously a
    > poor to travesty transfer (poor coloration etc) and the Blu Ray thus
    > appeared prestine. How easy to deceive in this domain!
    >
    > Caveat Emptor and beware of snake oil.
    >


    Typical Sony behavior, not unlike the pre-rendered E3 footage they tried to
    represent as gameplay.
     
    Company Man, Jan 7, 2006
    #12
  13. Goro

    Richard Guest

    Heck, you can put a 1080p60 file on a CD encoded with MPEG2. It is all up to
    the people who do the mastering what scan rate the file will be encoded at.
    If there is enough storage space on a disk for the program and extras at
    1080p60 and the software tools are available, there is not reason not to
    encode the disk at that scan rate. Since HD-DVD will likely use the more
    efficient MPEG4 or another efficient encoding method, there should be plenty
    of room for most presentations.

    Richard.
     
    Richard, Jan 7, 2006
    #13
  14. Goro

    WinField Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > Heck, you can put a 1080p60 file on a CD encoded with MPEG2. It is all up to
    > the people who do the mastering what scan rate the file will be encoded at.
    > If there is enough storage space on a disk for the program and extras at
    > 1080p60 and the software tools are available, there is not reason not to
    > encode the disk at that scan rate. Since HD-DVD will likely use the more
    > efficient MPEG4 or another efficient encoding method, there should be plenty
    > of room for most presentations.
    >
    > Richard.
    >
    >


    Old codecs to be (re)used on new DVD format?

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-5974348.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=zdnn

    [quickie quote]

    "Last week, studio giant Sony Pictures quietly voted for "none of the
    above," and took a swipe at the new codec formats. The new advanced
    codecs aren't immediately necessary for discs released in Sony's
    high-capacity Blu-ray format, Sony Pictures executives said in an
    interview with CNET News.com, and the studio would instead use the
    11-year-old MPEG-2 video codec used on today's DVDs."

    - winfield
     
    WinField, Jan 7, 2006
    #14
  15. Goro

    jolt Guest

    "Richard" <> wrote in message
    news:LRQvf.75563$...
    > Heck, you can put a 1080p60 file on a CD encoded with MPEG2. It is all up
    > to the people who do the mastering what scan rate the file will be encoded
    > at. If there is enough storage space on a disk for the program and extras
    > at 1080p60 and the software tools are available, there is not reason not
    > to encode the disk at that scan rate. Since HD-DVD will likely use the
    > more efficient MPEG4 or another efficient encoding method, there should be
    > plenty of room for most presentations.
    >
    > Richard.




    The problem with 1080p support is not the storage its the playback. Here's a
    link to some 1080p files

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx


    Now try to play them. I think that most will find they can't play them
    because they don't have fast enough equipment to process the files. There's
    the rub you need a powerful (costly) STB to do 1080p. I'll live with the
    limitation that cost imposes on HD-DVD, where it would seem they will offer
    STBs that will not support 1080p to control the cost.

    The PS3 if sold at 399.00 with 1080p support will be a must have and a large
    number will never see gameing use.
     
    jolt, Jan 7, 2006
    #15
  16. Goro

    Mr. X Guest

    "jolt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Now try to play them. I think that most will find they can't play them
    > because they don't have fast enough equipment to process the files.
    > There's the rub you need a powerful (costly) STB to do 1080p. I'll live
    > with the limitation that cost imposes on HD-DVD, where it would seem they
    > will offer STBs that will not support 1080p to control the cost.


    The problem is not the resolution it's the codec and DRM.

    I can play 1920x1200p60 MPEG2 even on my 6 year old 1.3GHz AMD and OC'd ATI
    9500pro board (8 shader 2b pipes @350MHz, 128M of 128 bit RAM @310MHz).

    But I can't play 1280x720p "HD WMV" with DRM on it.


    X
     
    Mr. X, Jan 8, 2006
    #16
  17. Goro

    Curmudgeon Guest

    Alpha wrote:
    > "Joshua Zyber" <> wrote in message
    > news:_wDvf.3150$...
    >
    >>"Goro" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>>I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    >>>1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.

    >>
    >>Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are stored on disc in 1080p format. The initial
    >>HD-DVD player from Toshiba will only support output at 720p or 1080i
    >>resolutions (not all of the Blu-Ray players will support 1080p output
    >>either, just the most expensive ones like the $1800 Pioneer). 1080p output
    >>will most likely be activated on HD-DVD for the second generation of
    >>players, which will coincide with a time when there is more than a handful
    >>of 1080p displays on the market that can accept such a signal anyway.
    >>
    >>The internet rumors that HD-DVD was permanently limited to 1080i are pure
    >>FUD from Blu-Ray supporters trying to stymie the HD-DVD launch.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Many thanks for this cogent information.
    >
    > The current presentation hype at conferences borders on the fraudulent. I
    > say Blu Ray compared to standard DVD where the DVD version was obviously a
    > poor to travesty transfer (poor coloration etc) and the Blu Ray thus
    > appeared prestine. How easy to deceive in this domain!
    >
    > Caveat Emptor and beware of snake oil.
    >
    >

    Since not one person in a 1000 can tell 1080i from 1080p it's all an
    exercise in marketing hype and panty-wadding by video nerds anyway.
     
    Curmudgeon, Jan 8, 2006
    #17
  18. Goro

    Joshua Zyber Guest

    "jolt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The PS3 if sold at 399.00 with 1080p support will be a must have and a
    > large number will never see gameing use.


    You're dreaming if you think the PS3 will live up to those expectations.
    Has everyone forgotten what a crappy DVD player the PS2 is? Why would we
    expect differently from the PS3? This thing is a video game console
    first, movie playback a distant second priority.

    If Sony intends to sell a 1080p-capable, fully-functional, excellent
    quality Blu-Ray/video game device all for $399, how will Samsung,
    Pioneer, and the other manufacturers (including Sony themselves) ever
    sell a single dedicated Blu-Ray player at twice to 5 times the price?
    Why would those other manufacturers ever join the Blu-Ray consortium if
    they knew that Sony was going to swoop in and slaughter them at retail?
    What is in it for them?

    Either the PS3 is going to be much more expensive than people are
    speculating, or it's going to be a functionally-disabled, lousy quality
    Blu-Ray device just like the PS2 is for DVDs.

    You can't have it both ways. It isn't feasible.
     
    Joshua Zyber, Jan 8, 2006
    #18
  19. Goro

    jolt Guest

    "Joshua Zyber" <> wrote in message
    news:6Kbwf.4638$%...
    > "jolt" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> The PS3 if sold at 399.00 with 1080p support will be a must have and a
    >> large number will never see gameing use.

    >
    > You're dreaming if you think the PS3 will live up to those expectations.
    > Has everyone forgotten what a crappy DVD player the PS2 is? Why would we
    > expect differently from the PS3? This thing is a video game console first,
    > movie playback a distant second priority.
    >
    > If Sony intends to sell a 1080p-capable, fully-functional, excellent
    > quality Blu-Ray/video game device all for $399, how will Samsung, Pioneer,
    > and the other manufacturers (including Sony themselves) ever sell a single
    > dedicated Blu-Ray player at twice to 5 times the price? Why would those
    > other manufacturers ever join the Blu-Ray consortium if they knew that
    > Sony was going to swoop in and slaughter them at retail? What is in it for
    > them?
    >
    > Either the PS3 is going to be much more expensive than people are
    > speculating, or it's going to be a functionally-disabled, lousy quality
    > Blu-Ray device just like the PS2 is for DVDs.
    >
    > You can't have it both ways. It isn't feasible.

    Your question are on the mark and you are correct that it is not reasonable
    to assume the PS3 will be a full featured 1080p DVD player selling for
    399.00. But this is what Sony by way of what they have said and not said,
    lead some to speculate. Bottom line if the price and features are close to
    what is speculated I'm in for one and it will never see game use as I would
    be happy with it's value just as a DVD player.
     
    jolt, Jan 8, 2006
    #19
  20. Goro

    Greggy Guest

    Curmudgeon wrote:
    > Alpha wrote:
    > > "Joshua Zyber" <> wrote in message
    > > news:_wDvf.3150$...
    > >
    > >>"Goro" <> wrote in message
    > >>news:...
    > >>
    > >>>I just wonder if anyone knows whether HD-DVD discs are supposed to be
    > >>>1080p and if this player outputs 1080p.
    > >>
    > >>Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are stored on disc in 1080p format. The initial
    > >>HD-DVD player from Toshiba will only support output at 720p or 1080i
    > >>resolutions (not all of the Blu-Ray players will support 1080p output
    > >>either, just the most expensive ones like the $1800 Pioneer). 1080p output
    > >>will most likely be activated on HD-DVD for the second generation of
    > >>players, which will coincide with a time when there is more than a handful
    > >>of 1080p displays on the market that can accept such a signal anyway.
    > >>
    > >>The internet rumors that HD-DVD was permanently limited to 1080i are pure
    > >>FUD from Blu-Ray supporters trying to stymie the HD-DVD launch.
    > >>

    > >
    > >
    > > Many thanks for this cogent information.
    > >
    > > The current presentation hype at conferences borders on the fraudulent. I
    > > say Blu Ray compared to standard DVD where the DVD version was obviously a
    > > poor to travesty transfer (poor coloration etc) and the Blu Ray thus
    > > appeared prestine. How easy to deceive in this domain!
    > >
    > > Caveat Emptor and beware of snake oil.
    > >
    > >

    > Since not one person in a 1000 can tell 1080i from 1080p it's all an
    > exercise in marketing hype and panty-wadding by video nerds anyway.


    If 720p = 1080i, then shouldn't 1080p = 1620i?

    If so, then I'm sure most people should be able to easily tell the dif
    between 1080i and 1620i.
     
    Greggy, Jan 8, 2006
    #20
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