Is Epson a Nice Firm..??

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Master Tech ©, Jul 9, 2003.

  1. Have a read of this..

    Epson Foul Play
    by Andrew Charnley on July 8th, 2003. 0 comments

    Dutch Consumer Association consumentenbond has released a statement to its
    650,000+ members advising them to boycott Epson printers because of the so
    called 'smart' chip inside of the cartridges.

    The cartridges were recently exposed by the which? association when an average
    of thirty percent more pages could be printed with the special chip bypassed.
    The Dutch Consumer Association warns that the chip stops printing after a
    number of prints rather than low ink levels.

    By 2006 the use of chips to prevent refills will be made illegal under
    European legislation. Meanwhile manufacturers are raking in as much cash as
    possible, before having to raise the price of hardware currently subsided by
    the high cost of cartridges.
    Master Tech ©, Jul 9, 2003
    #1
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  2. In article <beg1uj$hmd$>, "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote:
    >"Master Tech ©" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Have a read of this..
    >>
    >> Epson Foul Play
    >> by Andrew Charnley on July 8th, 2003. 0 comments
    >>
    >> Dutch Consumer Association consumentenbond has released a statement to its
    >> 650,000+ members advising them to boycott Epson printers because of the so
    >> called 'smart' chip inside of the cartridges.
    >>
    >> The cartridges were recently exposed by the which? association when an

    >average
    >> of thirty percent more pages could be printed with the special chip

    >bypassed.
    >> The Dutch Consumer Association warns that the chip stops printing after a
    >> number of prints rather than low ink levels.

    >
    >The reason for this is simple: It's too hard to install sensors inside chips
    >to measure ink levels (I assume). I don't think that any manufacturer has
    >sensors inside their cartridges to measure ink levels. The usual practice is
    >for the printer to count how many dots it has been requested to put on the
    >paper, then when the number of dots exceeds a certain level, the ink must
    >have run out.


    Question : why can't the user tell when the ink has run out by looking at the
    most recently printed page and saying words like ... "bugger, the ink has run
    out - better get another ink cartridge" ?

    What benefit is there in the hardware telling us ? ... particularly if it
    isn't true :)

    On the up side, Epson actively support linux :)

    Bruce


    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oook !
    NOTE remove the not_ from the address to reply. NO SPAM !
    Bruce Sinclair, Jul 9, 2003
    #2
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  3. On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 14:35:31 +1200, Master Tech ©
    <> wrote:

    >
    >


    >The cartridges were recently exposed by the which? association when an average
    >of thirty percent more pages could be printed with the special chip bypassed.
    >The Dutch Consumer Association warns that the chip stops printing after a
    >number of prints rather than low ink levels.
    >



    Has anyone got informaion on how Which? did that please.

    Is there anyo9ne here who works for Epson NZ who wants to comment


    Patrick
    Patrick FitzGerald, Jul 9, 2003
    #3
  4. "Master Tech ©" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > Have a read of this..
    >
    > Epson Foul Play
    > by Andrew Charnley on July 8th, 2003. 0 comments
    >
    > Dutch Consumer Association consumentenbond has released a statement to its
    > 650,000+ members advising them to boycott Epson printers because of the so
    > called 'smart' chip inside of the cartridges.
    >
    > The cartridges were recently exposed by the which? association when an

    average
    > of thirty percent more pages could be printed with the special chip

    bypassed.
    > The Dutch Consumer Association warns that the chip stops printing after a
    > number of prints rather than low ink levels.


    The reason for this is simple: It's too hard to install sensors inside chips
    to measure ink levels (I assume). I don't think that any manufacturer has
    sensors inside their cartridges to measure ink levels. The usual practice is
    for the printer to count how many dots it has been requested to put on the
    paper, then when the number of dots exceeds a certain level, the ink must
    have run out.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
    Nicholas Sherlock, Jul 9, 2003
    #4
  5. Master  Tech ©

    Chris Mayhew Guest

    z (Bruce Sinclair) wrote in
    news:FdMOa.3714$:

    > In article <beg1uj$hmd$>, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    > <> wrote:
    >>"Master Tech ©" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Have a read of this..
    >>>
    >>> Epson Foul Play
    >>> by Andrew Charnley on July 8th, 2003. 0 comments
    >>>
    >>> Dutch Consumer Association consumentenbond has released a statement
    >>> to its 650,000+ members advising them to boycott Epson printers
    >>> because of the so called 'smart' chip inside of the cartridges.
    >>>
    >>> The cartridges were recently exposed by the which? association when
    >>> an

    >>average
    >>> of thirty percent more pages could be printed with the special chip

    >>bypassed.
    >>> The Dutch Consumer Association warns that the chip stops printing
    >>> after a number of prints rather than low ink levels.

    >>
    >>The reason for this is simple: It's too hard to install sensors inside
    >>chips to measure ink levels (I assume). I don't think that any
    >>manufacturer has sensors inside their cartridges to measure ink
    >>levels. The usual practice is for the printer to count how many dots
    >>it has been requested to put on the paper, then when the number of
    >>dots exceeds a certain level, the ink must have run out.

    >
    > Question : why can't the user tell when the ink has run out by looking
    > at the most recently printed page and saying words like ... "bugger,
    > the ink has run out - better get another ink cartridge" ?
    >
    > What benefit is there in the hardware telling us ? ... particularly if
    > it isn't true :)
    >
    > On the up side, Epson actively support linux :)
    >
    > Bruce
    >
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Oook !
    > NOTE remove the not_ from the address to reply. NO SPAM !


    I wonder what the original source of the information was ? - no url
    supplied or source cited so that one can read the "whole" story

    --
    Chris Mayhew using Xnews !
    Chris Mayhew, Jul 9, 2003
    #5
  6. Master  Tech ©

    colinco Guest

    In article <FdMOa.3714$>, Bruce Sinclair
    wrote...
    > Question : why can't the user tell when the ink has run out by looking at the
    > most recently printed page and saying words like ... "bugger, the ink has run
    > out - better get another ink cartridge" ?
    >

    Because the next words might be "bugger, the print head is stuffed.."
    One manufacturer has detector system that shines a light through the
    cart. All seem to err on the full side of empty.
    colinco, Jul 9, 2003
    #6
  7. > I wonder what the original source of the information was ? - no url
    > supplied or source cited so that one can read the "whole" story


    Not the original article, but a link providing details on the same
    announcement, can be found at;
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31623.html
    forensic analysis, Jul 9, 2003
    #7
  8. Master  Tech ©

    Jake Collins Guest

    The latest NZ Consumer magazine has a similar expose on Epson "smart" chips
    ripping you off by telling you the cartridge is empty when it really isn't.
    Jake Collins, Jul 9, 2003
    #8
  9. Master  Tech ©

    colinco Guest

    In article <isNOa.3725$>, Bruce Sinclair
    wrote...
    > Really ? ... do modern cartridges not have the print head as part of the
    > cartridge now ? .. if they're separate, why aint the ink cheaper :)
    >

    Printhead as part of cart is an HP thing.

    The ink is so expensive because they have to pay for all the ads telling
    you how good the "genuine ink" is.
    colinco, Jul 9, 2003
    #9
  10. In article <>, colinco <> wrote:
    >In article <isNOa.3725$>, Bruce Sinclair
    >wrote...
    >> Really ? ... do modern cartridges not have the print head as part of the
    >> cartridge now ? .. if they're separate, why aint the ink cheaper :)
    >>

    >Printhead as part of cart is an HP thing.


    Ah ... thanks. That accounts for it :)

    >The ink is so expensive because they have to pay for all the ads telling
    >you how good the "genuine ink" is.


    ... as does this :)

    Bruce


    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oook !
    NOTE remove the not_ from the address to reply. NO SPAM !
    Bruce Sinclair, Jul 10, 2003
    #10
  11. Master  Tech ©

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > In article <isNOa.3725$>, Bruce Sinclair
    > wrote...
    > > Really ? ... do modern cartridges not have the print head as part of the
    > > cartridge now ? .. if they're separate, why aint the ink cheaper :)
    > >

    > Printhead as part of cart is an HP thing.


    However many inkjets e.g. Canon have limited life heads anyway.
    Mainlander, Jul 10, 2003
    #11
  12. Master  Tech ©

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <begirh$v2h$>, says...
    > > Really ? ... do modern cartridges not have the print head as part of the
    > > cartridge now ? .. if they're separate, why aint the ink cheaper :)

    >
    > It is, by about $10..


    heads have a limited life anyway!
    Mainlander, Jul 10, 2003
    #12
  13. On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:08:54 +1200, Mainlander <*@*.*> wrote:

    >In article <begirh$v2h$>, says...
    >> > Really ? ... do modern cartridges not have the print head as part of the
    >> > cartridge now ? .. if they're separate, why aint the ink cheaper :)

    >>
    >> It is, by about $10..

    >
    >heads have a limited life anyway!




    Epson does not, the Bubble Jet heads get corroded by the water based inks..
    Master Tech ©, Jul 10, 2003
    #13
  14. Master  Tech ©

    pete Guest

    "Mainlander" <*@*.*> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    > > In article <isNOa.3725$>, Bruce Sinclair
    > > wrote...
    > > > Really ? ... do modern cartridges not have the print head as part of

    the
    > > > cartridge now ? .. if they're separate, why aint the ink cheaper :)
    > > >

    > > Printhead as part of cart is an HP thing.

    >
    > However many inkjets e.g. Canon have limited life heads anyway.

    All ink jets have a finite life print head. Some get new heads with every
    ink fill (eg most low-end HP)
    Canon recommend that printheads be replaced every 5 ink tanks but there is
    no enforcment of this by the printer.
    You can use the heads until they are stuffed (as most people do). When you
    buy new heads, they come complete with ink tanks. If I buy another ink jet
    printer, it will probably be a Canon, rather than the HPs I have now.
    pete, Jul 11, 2003
    #14
  15. On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 20:54:35 +1200, "pete" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Mainlander" <*@*.*> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> In article <>,
    >> says...
    >> > In article <isNOa.3725$>, Bruce Sinclair
    >> > wrote...
    >> > > Really ? ... do modern cartridges not have the print head as part of

    >the
    >> > > cartridge now ? .. if they're separate, why aint the ink cheaper :)
    >> > >
    >> > Printhead as part of cart is an HP thing.

    >>
    >> However many inkjets e.g. Canon have limited life heads anyway.

    >All ink jets have a finite life print head. Some get new heads with every
    >ink fill (eg most low-end HP)
    >Canon recommend that printheads be replaced every 5 ink tanks but there is
    >no enforcment of this by the printer.
    >You can use the heads until they are stuffed (as most people do). When you
    >buy new heads, they come complete with ink tanks. If I buy another ink jet
    >printer, it will probably be a Canon, rather than the HPs I have now.
    >




    And Epson heads last for ever.
    Master Tech ©, Jul 11, 2003
    #15
  16. Master  Tech ©

    John S Guest

    On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:45:41 GMT, Bruce Sinclair wrote:

    > In article <beg1uj$hmd$>, "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote:

    snip
    >
    > Question : why can't the user tell when the ink has run out by looking at the
    > most recently printed page and saying words like ... "bugger, the ink has run
    > out - better get another ink cartridge" ?
    >
    > What benefit is there in the hardware telling us ? ... particularly if it
    > isn't true :)
    >
    > On the up side, Epson actively support linux :)
    >
    > Bruce


    Well, from my own (admittedly limited) experience with Canon cartridges,
    there is good reason not to let the ink run out, if you want to avoid
    damage to the inkjet print "engine".

    I have found that, with the Canon cartridges I use (BC02 with inbuilt print
    head), I can refill them over and over again - typically 20 to 30 times or
    more, with no problems, as long as I don't allow the ink to run out.

    I check the cartridge periodically by weight, and when it gets close to 15
    grammes, I put in another 12 to 15 cc of ink.

    Occasionally I have overlooked doing this and run out of ink, an expensive
    mistake because it usually means that the cartridge "dies".

    As I understand it, the Canon engine works by electrically heating a tiny
    drop of ink very quickly so that it expands and is self propelled out of
    the nozzle. Perhaps this explains why the cartridge would no longer work
    properly after running out of ink, as the tiny heating surfaces would
    possibly be damaged by exposure to air.

    So, maybe Epson are playing safe by making sure their printers don't run
    out of ink, as I understand many or their models have a permanent print
    head, and replaceable ink "tanks". Presumably it's a bit expensive to
    replace a permanent print head?

    Cheers,

    John S
    John S, Sep 27, 2009
    #16
  17. Master  Tech ©

    Cima Guest

    On Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:46:15 +1200, John S <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 02:45:41 GMT, Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    >
    >> In article <beg1uj$hmd$>, "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote:

    >snip
    >>
    >> Question : why can't the user tell when the ink has run out by looking at the
    >> most recently printed page and saying words like ... "bugger, the ink has run
    >> out - better get another ink cartridge" ?
    >>
    >> What benefit is there in the hardware telling us ? ... particularly if it
    >> isn't true :)
    >>
    >> On the up side, Epson actively support linux :)
    >>
    >> Bruce

    >
    >Well, from my own (admittedly limited) experience with Canon cartridges,
    >there is good reason not to let the ink run out, if you want to avoid
    >damage to the inkjet print "engine".
    >
    >I have found that, with the Canon cartridges I use (BC02 with inbuilt print
    >head), I can refill them over and over again - typically 20 to 30 times or
    >more, with no problems, as long as I don't allow the ink to run out.
    >
    >I check the cartridge periodically by weight, and when it gets close to 15
    >grammes, I put in another 12 to 15 cc of ink.
    >
    >Occasionally I have overlooked doing this and run out of ink, an expensive
    >mistake because it usually means that the cartridge "dies".
    >
    >As I understand it, the Canon engine works by electrically heating a tiny
    >drop of ink very quickly so that it expands and is self propelled out of
    >the nozzle. Perhaps this explains why the cartridge would no longer work
    >properly after running out of ink, as the tiny heating surfaces would
    >possibly be damaged by exposure to air.
    >
    >So, maybe Epson are playing safe by making sure their printers don't run
    >out of ink, as I understand many or their models have a permanent print
    >head, and replaceable ink "tanks". Presumably it's a bit expensive to
    >replace a permanent print head?
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >John S


    Woah, this is an ooollllld thread
    http://groups.google.co.nz/group/nz.comp/browse_thread/thread/c74575df06ef2ffa#


    Love the way my Epson TX100 holds me to ransom when a colour cart runs out. "But
    I only want to print out in black" = tough shit son, you need to replace that
    Cyan cart now before I print another word.
    Damn annoying, even when printing is set to "Black Ink Only" it still manages to
    drain the colours.
    Cima, Sep 27, 2009
    #17
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