Is Apple doomed, the way IBM ended up in the PC market?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    RichA, Dec 12, 2012
    #1
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  2. Per RichA:
    >IBM made huge mistakes that cost it a market they dominated.
    >Microsoft is struggling (sort of) to shore up against dropping demand
    >for PC's. But how about Apple's huge phone market?
    >
    >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/20/open_and_shut/


    Had a doctor's appointment yesterday - where I discovered that
    both the doctor and one of his assistants were about to trade
    their iPhones for Samsung Note II's.

    Neither one impresses me as being very technweenieish.

    I'm looking forward to hearing how happy/unhappy they are with
    Android vs IOS.

    Seems to me like, without Jobs, Apple is in danger of becoming
    dominated by marketing and accounting people.
    --
    Pete Cresswell
    (PeteCresswell), Dec 12, 2012
    #2
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  3. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Alfred
    Molon <> wrote:

    > > Had a doctor's appointment yesterday - where I discovered that
    > > both the doctor and one of his assistants were about to trade
    > > their iPhones for Samsung Note II's.
    > >
    > > Neither one impresses me as being very technweenieish.
    > >
    > > I'm looking forward to hearing how happy/unhappy they are with
    > > Android vs IOS.

    >
    > Lsst year I was looking for a smartphone for my wife. I wouldn't have
    > minded buying an iphone for her, but they were so ridicolously
    > expensive.


    bullshit.

    iphones are the same price as any other comparable android smartphone
    or even windows phone. the iphone 5 is $200, which is the same price as
    a galaxy s3. the iphone 4 is *free* with contract.

    plus, the real price of a cellphone is not the price of the device, but
    the monthly contract you're locked into for 2 years. an extra $100 one
    way or the other for the phone itself is negligible in the grand scheme
    of things. that's a month or two of cell service, depending on the
    plan.
    nospam, Dec 12, 2012
    #3
  4. RichA <> wrote:
    >IBM made huge mistakes that cost it a market they dominated.
    >Microsoft is struggling (sort of) to shore up against dropping demand
    >for PC's. But how about Apple's huge phone market?
    >
    >http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/20/open_and_shut/



    Apple sells multiple times more tablets than it sells laptop and
    desktop computers. Apple sells even more iPhones than tablets
    (iPads).
    We have seen Apple move away from being a creative person's digital
    assistant towards providing entertainment systems for the masses.

    In laptop and desktop computers, Apple had an advantage that other
    manufacturers didn't: its operating system. Now Windows does most of
    not all of the things that made Apple's OS distinctly different.

    In phones, Google smartphones are now outselling the iPhone by more
    than three to one. Samsung alone is selling more smartphones than
    Apple.

    In tablets, Google's Android 4.0 OS is sweeping the market. Only
    Apple's last ditch court cases against Samsung and others are delaying
    Samsung's dominance of the tablet market.

    I had a difficult decision to stay with Apple for my laptop. In the
    end, it was the high resolution Retina display that convinced me. Had
    that not been available, I would probably have chosen a Windows laptop
    at around half the price. I had already replaced my Mac Pro with a
    high end Windows machine.

    I believe Apple's overall operating profits are currently around 44%.
    That is ridiculously high for the technology sectors Apple operates
    in. The margin cannot possibly stay that high.
    Anthony Polson, Dec 12, 2012
    #4
  5. Per Alfred Molon:
    >Lsst year I was looking for a smartphone for my wife. I wouldn't have
    >minded buying an iphone for her, but they were so ridicolously
    >expensive.


    My Sam sung Note was close to $600: $520 for the device, $55 for
    a sixty-gig SD card, plus a few bucks here-and-there for a cover,
    screen protector, a few wires, and so-forth.
    --
    Pete Cresswell
    (PeteCresswell), Dec 12, 2012
    #5
  6. Per Anthony Polson:
    >In laptop and desktop computers, Apple had an advantage that other
    >manufacturers didn't: its operating system. Now Windows does most of
    >not all of the things that made Apple's OS distinctly different.


    I used tb a total MacIntosh chauvinist. Even wrote a little
    sales/inventory control application for my 7" Mac Plus to support
    a backyard windsurfing equipment business.

    That was a loooooong time ago.

    Since then I've been making a living writing MS Office
    applications that run under Window.

    A few years ago, somebody graduated from design school and just
    *had* to have a Mac. I bought her the biggest-baddest Mac I
    could find.

    Had about two weeks to fool around with it before graduation day.

    My take was that Windows and Mac OS's (from the user's
    perspective & plug/play) were about the same.

    I'd even go so far as to say I prefer Windows XP over whatever
    was running on that Mac. For one thing, there are multiple ways
    to resize a window under XP. With the Mac I was restricted to
    just one way.

    When somebody asks me which they should get, I tell them to count
    up the people they know well enough to ask for computer help and
    choose the system that the most of those people have.
    --
    Pete Cresswell
    (PeteCresswell), Dec 12, 2012
    #6
  7. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <2012121213454580979-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    > > Per Alfred Molon:
    > >> Lsst year I was looking for a smartphone for my wife. I wouldn't have
    > >> minded buying an iphone for her, but they were so ridicolously
    > >> expensive.

    > >
    > > My Sam sung Note was close to $600: $520 for the device, $55 for
    > > a sixty-gig SD card, plus a few bucks here-and-there for a cover,
    > > screen protector, a few wires, and so-forth.

    >
    > My "Step-daughter from Hell" just got a $0 8GB Verizon iPhone 4,
    > unlimited voice, unlimited text, 2GB $80/month data plan.


    $0 is free.

    so much for being ridiculously expensive.
    nospam, Dec 12, 2012
    #7
  8. RichA

    Rob Guest

    On 13/12/2012 5:50 AM, nospam wrote:
    > In article <>, Alfred
    > Molon <> wrote:
    >
    >>> Had a doctor's appointment yesterday - where I discovered that
    >>> both the doctor and one of his assistants were about to trade
    >>> their iPhones for Samsung Note II's.
    >>>
    >>> Neither one impresses me as being very technweenieish.
    >>>
    >>> I'm looking forward to hearing how happy/unhappy they are with
    >>> Android vs IOS.

    >>
    >> Lsst year I was looking for a smartphone for my wife. I wouldn't have
    >> minded buying an iphone for her, but they were so ridicolously
    >> expensive.

    >
    > bullshit.
    >
    > iphones are the same price as any other comparable android smartphone
    > or even windows phone. the iphone 5 is $200, which is the same price as
    > a galaxy s3. the iphone 4 is *free* with contract.
    >
    > plus, the real price of a cellphone is not the price of the device, but
    > the monthly contract you're locked into for 2 years. an extra $100 one
    > way or the other for the phone itself is negligible in the grand scheme
    > of things. that's a month or two of cell service, depending on the
    > plan.
    >


    Why are you adding into the price free phones on contract.

    Its not bullshit at all. Just your way of justifying a contract.

    Who wants a contract I certainly don't.
    Rob, Dec 12, 2012
    #8
  9. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Eric Stevens
    <> wrote:

    > >> > Per Alfred Molon:
    > >> >> Lsst year I was looking for a smartphone for my wife. I wouldn't have
    > >> >> minded buying an iphone for her, but they were so ridicolously
    > >> >> expensive.
    > >> >
    > >> > My Sam sung Note was close to $600: $520 for the device, $55 for
    > >> > a sixty-gig SD card, plus a few bucks here-and-there for a cover,
    > >> > screen protector, a few wires, and so-forth.
    > >>
    > >> My "Step-daughter from Hell" just got a $0 8GB Verizon iPhone 4,
    > >> unlimited voice, unlimited text, 2GB $80/month data plan.

    > >
    > >$0 is free.
    > >
    > >so much for being ridiculously expensive.

    >
    > That tells you nothing about the cost.
    >
    > It just tells you someone else paid for it.


    it doesn't matter who paid for it, the fact is that iphones are not
    more expensive than android or other similar smartphones.

    and actually, *she* did pay for the phone, it's just that the actual
    price is part of the 2 year contract. if she cancels that contract
    before the 2 years, the remaining balance of the phone will be due,
    known as an early termination fee.

    the point is that iphones, android phones and windows phones all cost
    about the same for similar devices, and that the bulk of the cost is
    not the phone itself, but the 2 year contract.
    nospam, Dec 12, 2012
    #9
  10. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <kab1cc$i8i$>, Rob <>
    wrote:

    > Why are you adding into the price free phones on contract.


    that's how nearly all cellphones are sold.

    > Its not bullshit at all. Just your way of justifying a contract.


    i'm not justifying anything. that's how the cellphone business works.

    > Who wants a contract I certainly don't.


    most people buy cellphones with a contract.

    for those who don't, they'll pay the full price of the phone up front.
    nospam, Dec 12, 2012
    #10
  11. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <2012121214453979149-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    > The 8GB iPhone 4, is a discontinued phone, basically a loss leader, and
    > Verizon is offering it as a clearance item.


    actually, it's not discontinued. it's still being made. it's just an
    older model for those who don't want to spend $99 for a 4s or $199 for
    a 5.
    nospam, Dec 12, 2012
    #11
  12. RichA

    Rob Guest

    On 13/12/2012 8:45 AM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2012-12-12 13:32:15 -0800, "(PeteCresswell)" <> said:
    >
    >> Per Alfred Molon:
    >>> Lsst year I was looking for a smartphone for my wife. I wouldn't have
    >>> minded buying an iphone for her, but they were so ridicolously
    >>> expensive.

    >>
    >> My Sam sung Note was close to $600: $520 for the device, $55 for
    >> a sixty-gig SD card, plus a few bucks here-and-there for a cover,
    >> screen protector, a few wires, and so-forth.

    >
    > My "Step-daughter from Hell" just got a $0 8GB Verizon iPhone 4,
    > unlimited voice, unlimited text, 2GB $80/month data plan.
    >
    > She is a low data(for now), high text user who previously had a
    > $54/month limited voice and text plan.
    > ...and she is absolutely happy with the new toy.
    >
    >



    And that would cost her about $2000 over the contract period - cheap toy!

    How do you know if its cost effective when you are on a plan? (with
    unlimited voice and text).

    The way I read this, phone say $600 outright, which leaves $60/mth for
    usage. Does she use all this?
    Rob, Dec 12, 2012
    #12
  13. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <2012121216033911967-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
    Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    > > I'm paying 20 Euro/month for a voice+data plan (and there are even
    > > cheaper plans available). Not even in my wildest dreams I would think of
    > > paying $80/month.

    >
    > E20= $61.20 and you still have to buy the phone.


    there are smartphone plans for less than that, *with* a free phone.
    nospam, Dec 13, 2012
    #13
  14. RichA

    Paul J Gans Guest

    "(PeteCresswell)" <> wrote:
    >Per Anthony Polson:
    >>In laptop and desktop computers, Apple had an advantage that other
    >>manufacturers didn't: its operating system. Now Windows does most of
    >>not all of the things that made Apple's OS distinctly different.


    >I used tb a total MacIntosh chauvinist. Even wrote a little
    >sales/inventory control application for my 7" Mac Plus to support
    >a backyard windsurfing equipment business.


    >That was a loooooong time ago.


    >Since then I've been making a living writing MS Office
    >applications that run under Window.


    >A few years ago, somebody graduated from design school and just
    >*had* to have a Mac. I bought her the biggest-baddest Mac I
    >could find.


    >Had about two weeks to fool around with it before graduation day.


    >My take was that Windows and Mac OS's (from the user's
    >perspective & plug/play) were about the same.


    >I'd even go so far as to say I prefer Windows XP over whatever
    >was running on that Mac. For one thing, there are multiple ways
    >to resize a window under XP. With the Mac I was restricted to
    >just one way.


    >When somebody asks me which they should get, I tell them to count
    >up the people they know well enough to ask for computer help and
    >choose the system that the most of those people have.


    That's probably the most useful advice anybody has given.

    --
    --- Paul J. Gans
    Paul J Gans, Dec 13, 2012
    #14
  15. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 17:49:18 -0500, nospam <>
    wrote:

    >In article <kab1cc$i8i$>, Rob <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >> Why are you adding into the price free phones on contract.

    >
    >that's how nearly all cellphones are sold.
    >
    >> Its not bullshit at all. Just your way of justifying a contract.

    >
    >i'm not justifying anything. that's how the cellphone business works.
    >
    >> Who wants a contract I certainly don't.

    >
    >most people buy cellphones with a contract.


    My son just got a brand-new *free* Toyota Camry. All he has to do is
    make the monthly payments.


    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Dec 13, 2012
    #15
  16. RichA

    Guest Guest

    "(PeteCresswell)" <> wrote:
    > Per RichA:
    >> IBM made huge mistakes that cost it a market they dominated.
    >> Microsoft is struggling (sort of) to shore up against dropping demand
    >> for PC's. But how about Apple's huge phone market?
    >>
    >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/20/open_and_shut/

    >
    > Had a doctor's appointment yesterday - where I discovered that
    > both the doctor and one of his assistants were about to trade
    > their iPhones for Samsung Note II's.
    >
    > Neither one impresses me as being very technweenieish.
    >
    > I'm looking forward to hearing how happy/unhappy they are with
    > Android vs IOS.
    >
    > Seems to me like, without Jobs, Apple is in danger of becoming
    > dominated by marketing and accounting people.


    That is very common. The Galaxy Note/SII/III, or whatever those large Sammy
    mobiles are called, seem more common along the streets and on the trains
    nowadays.

    The last iDevice that made me go wow was the iPad 2, and now we have had
    three more iPads and three more iPhones released that were just meh.
    Guest, Dec 13, 2012
    #16
  17. RichA

    tony cooper Guest

    On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 18:23:13 -0800, Savageduck
    <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

    >On 2012-12-12 18:02:30 -0800, Alan Browne
    ><> said:
    >
    >> On 2012.12.12 14:26 , Anthony Polson wrote:
    >>
    >>> I had a difficult decision to stay with Apple for my laptop. In the
    >>> end, it was the high resolution Retina display that convinced me.

    >>
    >> Enjoy:
    >> http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120623_2-MacBookPro-Retina-scr
    >> een-burn-in-ghost-images.html
    >>
    >> http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120804_1-MacBookPro-Retina-scr
    >> een-burn-in-followup.html
    >>
    >> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Major-Issue-Discovered-in-MacBook-Pro-with
    >> -Retina-Display-277558.shtml

    >
    >Well your URL's seem to be a little fractured, so here they are reconstituted:
    ><
    >http://macperformanceguide.com/blog...okPro-Retina-screen-burn-in-ghost-images.html
    >>

    ><
    >http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120804_1-MacBookPro-Retina-screen-burn-in-followup.html
    >>

    ><
    >http://news.softpedia.com/news/Majo...-MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Display-277558.shtml
    >>

    >
    >So it seems that things might not be completely rosy in the for Retina
    >Display owners.
    >Fortunately with my iMac, MBP, PBP, iPad2, and iPhone4S, I only have
    >one Retina display, that in the iPhone.
    >BTW my current iPad, iMac, MBP, and PBP displays seem to perform pretty well.
    >
    >It will be interesting to see the Polson long term report on his new
    >Retina Display devices.
    >
    >I would also expect some opinion on this subject from "nospam".


    We know his answers:

    1. Bullshit
    2. Nonsense
    3. Apple is not more expensive for comparable...
    4. It's free if you agree to pay.



    --
    Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
    tony cooper, Dec 13, 2012
    #17
  18. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Dec 12, 1:50 pm, nospam <> wrote:
    > In article <>, Alfred
    >
    > Molon <> wrote:
    > > > Had a doctor's appointment yesterday - where I discovered that
    > > > both the doctor and one of his assistants were about to trade
    > > > their iPhones for Samsung Note II's.

    >
    > > > Neither one impresses me as being very technweenieish.

    >
    > > > I'm looking forward to hearing how happy/unhappy they are with
    > > > Android vs IOS.

    >
    > > Lsst year I was looking for a smartphone for my wife. I wouldn't have
    > > minded buying an iphone for her, but they were so ridicolously
    > > expensive.

    >
    > bullshit.
    >
    > iphones are the same price as any other comparable android smartphone
    > or even windows phone. the iphone 5 is $200, which is the same price as
    > a galaxy s3. the iphone 4 is *free* with contract.
    >
    > plus, the real price of a cellphone is not the price of the device, but
    > the monthly contract you're locked into for 2 years. an extra $100 one
    > way or the other for the phone itself is negligible in the grand scheme
    > of things. that's a month or two of cell service, depending on the
    > plan.


    Cellphones and contracts are like speeding tickets, the cost comes in
    the insurance increases, not the actual ticket. Some woman in England
    just got a cellphone bill for $11,000 for one month. She did
    something wrong.
    RichA, Dec 13, 2012
    #18
  19. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Dec 12, 6:36 pm, Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    > In article <2012121213454580979-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, Savageduck
    > says...
    >
    > > My "Step-daughter from Hell" just got a $0 8GB Verizon iPhone 4,
    > > unlimited voice, unlimited text, 2GB $80/month data plan.

    >
    > I'm paying 20 Euro/month for a voice+data plan (and there are even
    > cheaper plans available). Not even in my wildest dreams I would think of
    > paying $80/month.
    > --


    Don't come to Canada, land of the most expensive communications rates
    on the planet.
    RichA, Dec 13, 2012
    #19
  20. RichA

    nospam Guest

    In article <>, Eric Stevens
    <> wrote:

    > >> >> My "Step-daughter from Hell" just got a $0 8GB Verizon iPhone 4,
    > >> >> unlimited voice, unlimited text, 2GB $80/month data plan.
    > >> >
    > >> >$0 is free.
    > >> >
    > >> >so much for being ridiculously expensive.
    > >>
    > >> That tells you nothing about the cost.
    > >>
    > >> It just tells you someone else paid for it.

    > >
    > >it doesn't matter who paid for it, the fact is that iphones are not
    > >more expensive than android or other similar smartphones.
    > >
    > >and actually, *she* did pay for the phone, it's just that the actual
    > >price is part of the 2 year contract. if she cancels that contract
    > >before the 2 years, the remaining balance of the phone will be due,
    > >known as an early termination fee.
    > >
    > >the point is that iphones, android phones and windows phones all cost
    > >about the same for similar devices, and that the bulk of the cost is
    > >not the phone itself, but the 2 year contract.

    >
    > You may be right but so far you have produced absolutely no evidence.


    go learn how the cellphone industry works. all of the evidence is there.
    nospam, Dec 13, 2012
    #20
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