iPad nonsense at Orewa College

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Peter Gutmann, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that Orewa
    College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for their year
    nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling to put food on
    the table.

    Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
    homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least they'll
    be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.

    Peter.
    Peter Gutmann, Jul 19, 2011
    #1
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  2. Peter Gutmann

    Ralph Fox Guest

    On 19 Jul 2011 07:50:15 GMT, in message <>
    Peter Gutmann wrote:

    > A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that Orewa
    > College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for their year
    > nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling to put food on
    > the table.



    Orewa College are _requiring_ that parents purchase a "one to one
    computer device", and recommending that it be an "Apple iPad2."
    OTOH the letter below does not appear to contain the phrase
    "iPad laptops".


    http://orewa.school.nz/dms/images/news_articles/Letter_to_Year_8_parents_24_June.pdf

    | In 2012, Orewa College will require you to purchase a one to one
    | computer device for your Year 9 student to have with them in the
    | classroom.
    |
    | What is a one to one computing device?
    | It is a personal laptop, Netbook, Android Type tablet computer,
    | or an iPad.
    |
    | [...]
    | Our preference for that device will be the Apple iPad2.
    | Attached is a document which outlines how you may purchase
    | such a device, and [...]


    > Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
    > homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least they'll
    > be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.


    A "personal laptop" may be better than a tablet for a lot of
    educational use.


    --
    Kind regards
    Ralph
    Ralph Fox, Jul 19, 2011
    #2
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  3. whoisthis <> writes:

    >No they are wanting a personal computer, their preference is for an iPad
    >because of the battery life.


    An iPad isn't a personal computer (except in the very loosest sense), it's a
    tablet.

    >My guess is they will use Pages, or some other word processing package,
    >there are lots of them.


    So they're going to type up and edit 2,000-word essays using the on-screen
    keypad?

    Peter.
    Peter Gutmann, Jul 19, 2011
    #3
  4. Ralph Fox <> writes:

    >Orewa College are _requiring_ that parents purchase a "one to one
    >computer device", and recommending that it be an "Apple iPad2."
    >OTOH the letter below does not appear to contain the phrase
    >"iPad laptops".


    It was used in a TVNZ story that I got sent a link to, I guess it was a TVNZ
    creation. Still, recommending that cash-strapped parents buy an expensive
    etch-a-sketch instead of a budget laptop (if they need one at all)... [shakes
    head].

    Peter.
    Peter Gutmann, Jul 19, 2011
    #4
  5. In article <>, r
    says...
    >
    > Mind you, what was wrong with the Eton Tables eh... bugger this
    > technology lark, calculators be damned.
    >


    Right you are. When and where I went to school we weren't allowed calculators
    in math classes or tests. For a damn good reason. You wouldn't believe how
    often I run into people here in NZ who can't add two 3-digit numbers together
    without searching for their calculator first, and then they're surprised when
    my wife or I have already put the correct change on the counter before they've
    even begun to type the numbers in. Not to mention that I've severally had to
    pull people up because I knew the right result and they had typed it in wrong.

    I consider that as a fairly pathetic failure of the education system. I love
    technology and I love gadgets, no Luddite here, but I also believe that kids
    should have to learn some basic skills and fundamental knowledge. Copy-pasting
    Wiki articles on your ipad or lappy or whatever for work assignments is often
    not learning stuff nor furthering understanding on the whole ... it's just
    getting lazy, in many cases "supporting" teachers who don't even understand the
    matter they're supposed to teach (and I am speaking from an inside viewpoint
    here) by taking the load off them to actually present the material in a
    didactic manner.

    I.m.o. those 'ipad people' were thinking with their arses, not with their
    heads.

    f.w.i.w. -P.
    Peter Huebner, Jul 19, 2011
    #5
  6. Peter Gutmann

    Gib Bogle Guest

    On 7/20/2011 12:48 AM, Peter Huebner wrote:

    > Right you are. When and where I went to school we weren't allowed calculators
    > in math classes or tests. For a damn good reason. You wouldn't believe how
    > often I run into people here in NZ who can't add two 3-digit numbers together
    > without searching for their calculator first, and then they're surprised when
    > my wife or I have already put the correct change on the counter before they've
    > even begun to type the numbers in. Not to mention that I've severally had to
    > pull people up because I knew the right result and they had typed it in wrong.
    >
    > I consider that as a fairly pathetic failure of the education system. I love
    > technology and I love gadgets, no Luddite here, but I also believe that kids
    > should have to learn some basic skills and fundamental knowledge. Copy-pasting
    > Wiki articles on your ipad or lappy or whatever for work assignments is often
    > not learning stuff nor furthering understanding on the whole ... it's just
    > getting lazy, in many cases "supporting" teachers who don't even understand the
    > matter they're supposed to teach (and I am speaking from an inside viewpoint
    > here) by taking the load off them to actually present the material in a
    > didactic manner.
    >
    > I.m.o. those 'ipad people' were thinking with their arses, not with their
    > heads.



    I agree 100%
    Gib Bogle, Jul 19, 2011
    #6
  7. Peter Gutmann

    Gib Bogle Guest

    On 7/20/2011 7:27 AM, whoisthis wrote:
    > In article<j03nsl$lcf$>, EMB<>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 19/07/2011 10:45 p.m., Peter Gutmann wrote:
    >>
    >> (if they need one at all)
    >>
    >> And there is the crux of the matter - the case for secondary students
    >> needing a laptop/iPad/whatever is pretty weak. Pen and paper imparts
    >> writing, spelling and presentation skills that the etch-a-sketch never will.

    >
    > I have come back from a conference where presentations were made by a
    > couple of schools/universities in Australia who had iPad programs and
    > they all reported good outcomes.
    >
    > I think you are showing the first symptoms of old age..."Didn't
    > need/have that in my day".
    >
    > Todays world is very different from your parents one, and our children's
    > will be very different from our own.


    But not necessarily in the ways you expect.
    Gib Bogle, Jul 19, 2011
    #7
  8. Peter Gutmann

    Geopelia Guest

    When I started school in 1934 the ballpoint pen wasn't invented. Pencils,
    nibs and inkwells were used in those days, even the good old slates were
    still around in some small schools.

    How many people doing their IR3 this year could do the bit where they had to
    multiply something by .19xxx (I don't remember the last three numbers)?
    I bet there was a rush for the calculators.

    Yes, I did it without one.
    Geopelia, Jul 19, 2011
    #8
  9. Peter Gutmann

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-07-19, Peter Gutmann <> wrote:
    >
    > A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that Orewa
    > College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for their year
    > nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling to put food on
    > the table.
    >
    > Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
    > homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least they'll
    > be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.
    >


    One has to wonder if a certain company, has had anything to do with this
    Gordon, Jul 20, 2011
    #9
  10. Peter Gutmann

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-07-19, Ralph Fox <> wrote:
    > On 19 Jul 2011 07:50:15 GMT, in message <>
    > Peter Gutmann wrote:
    >
    >> A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that Orewa
    >> College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for their year
    >> nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling to put food on
    >> the table.

    >
    >
    > Orewa College are _requiring_ that parents purchase a "one to one
    > computer device", and recommending that it be an "Apple iPad2."
    > OTOH the letter below does not appear to contain the phrase
    > "iPad laptops".
    >
    >
    > http://orewa.school.nz/dms/images/news_articles/Letter_to_Year_8_parents_24_June.pdf
    >
    >| In 2012, Orewa College will require you to purchase a one to one
    >| computer device for your Year 9 student to have with them in the
    >| classroom.
    >|
    >| What is a one to one computing device?
    >| It is a personal laptop, Netbook, Android Type tablet computer,
    >| or an iPad.


    HA! One on one? Think about it.

    As Red would say Dumb Arse!

    As Tui, Yeah Right!
    Gordon, Jul 20, 2011
    #10
  11. Peter Gutmann

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-07-19, Peter Gutmann <> wrote:
    >
    > A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that Orewa
    > College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for their year
    > nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling to put food on
    > the table.
    >
    > Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
    > homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least they'll
    > be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.
    >

    Excellent! A subject to fire this group off the past few days off the place
    it has been
    Gordon, Jul 20, 2011
    #11
  12. Peter Gutmann

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-07-19, EMB <> wrote:
    > On 19/07/2011 10:45 p.m., Peter Gutmann wrote:
    >
    > (if they need one at all)
    >
    > And there is the crux of the matter - the case for secondary students
    > needing a laptop/iPad/whatever is pretty weak. Pen and paper imparts
    > writing, spelling and presentation skills that the etch-a-sketch never will.


    It is interesting, but even though it is online, people keep asking for
    paper and ink version.

    Paper wins over tablets in so many ways. In that in which is does not, they
    should be used.
    Gordon, Jul 20, 2011
    #12
  13. Peter Gutmann

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-07-19, Geopelia <> wrote:
    > When I started school in 1934 the ballpoint pen wasn't invented.


    it was very close though. Biro, the person, was about to make it happen

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballpoint_pen

    the patent for it was in 1888. like prestressed concrete or the working
    Diesel engine. The theory had to wait until technology caught up.


    > Pencils,
    > nibs and inkwells were used in those days, even the good old slates were
    > still around in some small schools.


    Like paper, the pencil is still with us. It rules when it comes to writing
    on a rough surface.
    >
    > How many people doing their IR3 this year could do the bit where they had to
    > multiply something by .19xxx (I don't remember the last three numbers)?
    > I bet there was a rush for the calculators.
    >
    > Yes, I did it without one.


    Tell us Geo, can you work out the sqaure root of a number by hand? It can be
    done. My Mother (How MS is that?), used to be able to give it a go.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methods_of_computing_square_roots

    Drop down a wee bit
    Gordon, Jul 20, 2011
    #13
  14. Peter Gutmann

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-07-19, whoisthis <> wrote:
    > In article <j03nsl$lcf$>, EMB <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 19/07/2011 10:45 p.m., Peter Gutmann wrote:
    >>
    >> (if they need one at all)
    >>
    >> And there is the crux of the matter - the case for secondary students
    >> needing a laptop/iPad/whatever is pretty weak. Pen and paper imparts
    >> writing, spelling and presentation skills that the etch-a-sketch never will.

    >
    > I have come back from a conference where presentations were made by a
    > couple of schools/universities in Australia who had iPad programs and
    > they all reported good outcomes.
    >
    > I think you are showing the first symptoms of old age..."Didn't
    > need/have that in my day".
    >
    > Todays world is very different from your parents one, and our children's
    > will be very different from our own.


    And here I shall throw in the ideas of Gene Roddenberry. In his shows they
    keep passing tablets to each other.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Roddenberry

    Also because we can do it, should we. Nuclear energy, Rutherford helped this
    become a reality, unlike TV. Should we carpet bomb with nuclear weaponsthe
    oppsition because we are able to?

    Technology is nothing more than something we need to consider how to use it.
    Oh dear, some folks brains have gone into failure. Hang in there, we can get
    you out
    Gordon, Jul 20, 2011
    #14
  15. Peter Gutmann

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-07-19, Robert Cooze <c_o-o_z-e_r-b_@-c-o-o-z-eD_O_Tc_oD_O_Tnz> wrote:
    > On 20/07/11 07:34, Gib Bogle wrote:
    >> On 7/20/2011 7:27 AM, whoisthis wrote:
    >>> In article<j03nsl$lcf$>, EMB<>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On 19/07/2011 10:45 p.m., Peter Gutmann wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> (if they need one at all)
    >>>>
    >>>> And there is the crux of the matter - the case for secondary students
    >>>> needing a laptop/iPad/whatever is pretty weak. Pen and paper imparts
    >>>> writing, spelling and presentation skills that the etch-a-sketch
    >>>> never will.
    >>>
    >>> I have come back from a conference where presentations were made by a
    >>> couple of schools/universities in Australia who had iPad programs and
    >>> they all reported good outcomes.
    >>>
    >>> I think you are showing the first symptoms of old age..."Didn't
    >>> need/have that in my day".
    >>>
    >>> Todays world is very different from your parents one, and our children's
    >>> will be very different from our own.

    >>
    >> But not necessarily in the ways you expect.

    > I can see the point of both schools of thought. (excuse the pun)
    >
    > from where I sit the i-pad is a consumer of data not a content creator,
    > even the lowly netbok/laptop can be a creator of data.


    Alright, school children have been creators of data, since when?


    > Mostly both are
    > only used for consumption of data in the home usage.


    Now I have a problem. All people should create data. It is what a democracy
    does.

    >
    > My arguments against the i-pad is i-tunes is the only way to get data
    > off the device and on to a desktop (according to a Apple shop) ok there
    > is e-mail but that is well inefficient. Mind you these days people are
    > using the tools in a haphassard manor. My Lawyer emails me word
    > documents when they could be just the txt of the e-mail... and the
    > e-mail is html too (least they are consistent).


    Aftershock. Many good points.

    Yes folks all documents need to be able to be read by the receiver. Think
    about it.

    I care not upon what platform you are on, but if I can not read your
    attachment then I shall find someone who will send an attachment which I
    can.

    I have no problem with people speaking in a language which I do not speak,
    so long as they are not referring to me with in it.

    However may I ask why it i this a i that? Let people be free to choose. Or
    how about a PC world, yes.
    Gordon, Jul 20, 2011
    #15
  16. Peter Gutmann

    David Empson Guest

    Gordon <> wrote:

    > On 2011-07-19, Peter Gutmann <> wrote:
    > >
    > > A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that
    > > Orewa College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for
    > > their year nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are
    > > struggling to put food on the table.
    > >
    > > Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
    > > homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least
    > > they'll be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.
    > >

    >
    > One has to wonder if a certain company, has had anything to do with this


    The principal was interviewed on Campbell Live last night. She said
    Apple Inc was not involved in any way. In fact, she said the iPad was
    only their preferred choice because it had sufficient battery life to
    last for the entire school day, while other devices might need to be
    recharged during the day. The student could use any other tablet,
    netbook or notebook.

    I wonder how this might tie in with specific software requirements in
    future - if there are particular applications the student needs to be
    able to run, that might restrict the platforms they can use to ones on
    which those applications exist.

    Managing a classroom with mixed platforms could be somewhat of a
    headache.

    --
    David Empson
    David Empson, Jul 20, 2011
    #16
  17. Peter Gutmann

    Donchano Guest

    On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 10:21:32 +1200, "Geopelia" <>
    shouted from the highest rooftop:

    >When I started school in 1934 the ballpoint pen wasn't invented. Pencils,
    >nibs and inkwells were used in those days, even the good old slates were
    >still around in some small schools.
    >
    >How many people doing their IR3 this year could do the bit where they had to
    >multiply something by .19xxx (I don't remember the last three numbers)?
    >I bet there was a rush for the calculators.
    >
    >Yes, I did it without one.


    In what Americans then called "Junior High School" (now Middle School)
    - in 1953 - I had a wonderful English teacher named Helen M.
    Stelzriede who insisted we take our exams with ballpoint pens.
    Presumably, so we had to think about our answers before committing
    them to paper. I'll never forget the roasting I got one day when I
    forgot that rule. That strict, uncompromising woman taught me a lot of
    excellent life skills. Bless her.
    Donchano, Jul 20, 2011
    #17
  18. Peter Gutmann

    Donchano Guest

    On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:54:53 +1200, whoisthis <>
    shouted from the highest rooftop:

    >In article <>,
    > Gordon <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 2011-07-19, Peter Gutmann <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> > A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that
    >> > Orewa
    >> > College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for their
    >> > year
    >> > nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling to put food
    >> > on
    >> > the table.
    >> >
    >> > Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
    >> > homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least
    >> > they'll
    >> > be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.
    >> >

    >>
    >> One has to wonder if a certain company, has had anything to do with this

    >
    >None. Thats is why they recommended the iPad because of its battery
    >life. But keep up with the FUD.


    I was just talking about this with my wife this morning and even
    though I don't own any Apple products, I know the iPad battery life is
    far superior to that of any laptop I've ever owned and figured that
    I'd prefer an iPad if I was in an academic environment. Then again,
    Apple laptops have a superior battery life as well.

    But since just about every teenager I know can't even remember to
    charge their cellphones, I wonder how many teen iPad users will come
    up with the universal "I forgot" excuse?
    Donchano, Jul 20, 2011
    #18
  19. Peter Gutmann

    Donchano Guest

    On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 18:38:37 +1200, whoisthis <>
    shouted from the highest rooftop:

    >In article <>,
    > Donchano <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 17:54:53 +1200, whoisthis <>
    >> shouted from the highest rooftop:
    >>
    >> >In article <>,
    >> > Gordon <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On 2011-07-19, Peter Gutmann <> wrote:
    >> >> >
    >> >> > A friend of mine (whose kids go there) just alerted me to the fact that
    >> >> > Orewa
    >> >> > College is recommending that parents buy "iPad laptops" [sic] for their
    >> >> > year
    >> >> > nine kids, including flexi-rent for parents who are struggling to put
    >> >> > food
    >> >> > on
    >> >> > the table.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > Gosh, I wonder what's going to happen when they're required to type up a
    >> >> > homework assignment on their shiny new "iPad laptop"? Still, at least
    >> >> > they'll
    >> >> > be able to check on each other's Facebook pages during class.
    >> >> >
    >> >>
    >> >> One has to wonder if a certain company, has had anything to do with this
    >> >
    >> >None. Thats is why they recommended the iPad because of its battery
    >> >life. But keep up with the FUD.

    >>
    >> I was just talking about this with my wife this morning and even
    >> though I don't own any Apple products, I know the iPad battery life is
    >> far superior to that of any laptop I've ever owned and figured that
    >> I'd prefer an iPad if I was in an academic environment. Then again,
    >> Apple laptops have a superior battery life as well.

    >
    >Yep, but still not good enough to be used all day. Schools being only 6
    >hours they would be OK I guess, but over all they are much heavier than
    >the iPad.


    Yes ... weight is another variable we discussed and that's a major
    factor when you consider the additional weight of books, lunch, drugs,
    knives, guns, etc. Besides, remembering to turn a device off or put it
    into "hibernation" or "standby" is probably too much for most teens.

    >> But since just about every teenager I know can't even remember to
    >> charge their cellphones, I wonder how many teen iPad users will come
    >> up with the universal "I forgot" excuse?

    >
    >A few chargers would be all that is needed.


    Or a few more years of maturity?
    Donchano, Jul 20, 2011
    #19
  20. Peter Gutmann

    PeeCee Guest

    On 20/07/2011 12:48 a.m., Peter Huebner wrote:
    > In article<>, r
    > says...
    >>
    >> Mind you, what was wrong with the Eton Tables eh... bugger this
    >> technology lark, calculators be damned.
    >>

    >
    > Right you are. When and where I went to school we weren't allowed calculators
    > in math classes or tests. For a damn good reason. You wouldn't believe how
    > often I run into people here in NZ who can't add two 3-digit numbers together
    > without searching for their calculator first, and then they're surprised when
    > my wife or I have already put the correct change on the counter before they've
    > even begun to type the numbers in. Not to mention that I've severally had to
    > pull people up because I knew the right result and they had typed it in wrong.
    >
    > I consider that as a fairly pathetic failure of the education system. I love
    > technology and I love gadgets, no Luddite here, but I also believe that kids
    > should have to learn some basic skills and fundamental knowledge. Copy-pasting
    > Wiki articles on your ipad or lappy or whatever for work assignments is often
    > not learning stuff nor furthering understanding on the whole ... it's just
    > getting lazy, in many cases "supporting" teachers who don't even understand the
    > matter they're supposed to teach (and I am speaking from an inside viewpoint
    > here) by taking the load off them to actually present the material in a
    > didactic manner.



    Had to look that word "Didactic" up.
    Came up with this one via Google:

    <quote>
    In the manner of a teacher, particularly so as to treat someone in a
    patronizing way
    - slow-paced, didactic lecturing
    </quote>

    :)

    Fully agree with your comments.
    Have felt for many years Teachers should not be licensed to 'teach' till
    they have spent at least half their working life actually working in
    their chosen disciplines.

    That way younger members of society will gain a more practical
    appreciation of how things work in real life, and older members can make
    a valuable contribution when they can no longer physically keep up in
    their professions.

    Those of us that are 'older' will well remember the previous attempts to
    standardise on teaching computers in NZ schools.
    The name 'Poly' comes to mind.

    My pick is the Headmaster concerned has no mentor to gently point out
    that this type of 'standardisation' has been tried before and found wanting.
    The cynic in me says the the Headmaster is following the demands of a
    fan boy and doesn't have the practical knowledge to discern the
    impracticalities and dead ends mono cultures end in.

    Ahh Theory is so perfect, 'in theory' !


    Paul.





    >
    > I.m.o. those 'ipad people' were thinking with their arses, not with their
    > heads.
    >
    > f.w.i.w. -P.
    >
    PeeCee, Jul 20, 2011
    #20
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