IP PBX Advice (Nortel, Avaya, Mitel, Cisco)

Discussion in 'VOIP' started by bigbrorpi@gmail.com, Oct 16, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Hey all -

    I'm evaluating IP PBX's for a small site (20 or so users), but
    reliability is key (business is almost 100% dependent on the phones
    being up). We will be growing in the next year, and possibly with
    remote sites. Our vmail needs are simple and we don't need unified
    messaging or any type of call center applications (I don't foresee them
    in the future either).

    I've looked at the Shoretel product, the Nortel BCM, the Avaya IP
    Office, the Mitell 3300 series and a Cisco Call Manager. I looked at
    CME, but TAC doesn't officially support QSIG on CME and I absolutely
    need QSIG capability.

    Right now, my favorites are Mitel and Cisco. I've read a lot of
    positive newsgroup postings about both, but it seems like upgrades of
    CM down the road are a mess. Basically what's important is
    functionality, ease of management, and most importantly,
    reliability/uptime.

    I'm just looking for some peer advice/feedback instead of listening to
    my various VARs talk their product up and put down the competition.

    Thanks!
    B
     
    , Oct 16, 2005
    #1
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  2. Mitel Lurker Guest

    We are using multiple Mitel 3300's and multiple Mitel SX200_ICP systems
    (both with Q.SIG) and have been very well satisfied with the product. The
    SX200_ICP systems are being used as end nodes, going into small offices
    with 50 or less employees and very minimal trunking requirements (no
    trunk-to-trunk requirements). The 3300s are going into larger offices and
    in locations where we need inter-machine (tandem) trunking.

    Mitel's 3300-CXi product might be ideal for your application.

    What will you be using the Q.SIG for?

    In article <>
    writes:

    >Hey all -


    >I'm evaluating IP PBX's for a small site (20 or so users), but
    >reliability is key (business is almost 100% dependent on the phones
    >being up). We will be growing in the next year, and possibly with
    >remote sites. Our vmail needs are simple and we don't need unified
    >messaging or any type of call center applications (I don't foresee them
    >in the future either).


    >I've looked at the Shoretel product, the Nortel BCM, the Avaya IP
    >Office, the Mitell 3300 series and a Cisco Call Manager. I looked at
    >CME, but TAC doesn't officially support QSIG on CME and I absolutely
    >need QSIG capability.


    >Right now, my favorites are Mitel and Cisco. I've read a lot of
    >positive newsgroup postings about both, but it seems like upgrades of
    >CM down the road are a mess. Basically what's important is
    >functionality, ease of management, and most importantly,
    >reliability/uptime.


    >I'm just looking for some peer advice/feedback instead of listening to
    >my various VARs talk their product up and put down the competition.


    >Thanks!
    >B
     
    Mitel Lurker, Oct 16, 2005
    #2
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  3. Guest

    The Q.SIG is for integration with a trading turret system.
    Thanks for the comments!
     
    , Oct 16, 2005
    #3
  4. Gavin Guest

    Being a Mitel engineer im a little biased but I think the Mitel CX
    would be perfect. It has everything you would expect in a system and
    more.
     
    Gavin, Oct 16, 2005
    #4
  5. Guest

    I work for a network integrator that carries both Cisco and ShoreTel.
    If are comparing the two for your needs then ShoreTEl is a far better
    choise. First of all you mentioned Qsig which ShoreTel does support.
    CME is basically dial tone replacement and isn't easy to manage and
    upgrades are nasty. You should take another look at ShoreTel for sure.
     
    , Oct 17, 2005
    #5
  6. Guest

    I work for a network integrator that carries both Cisco and ShoreTel.
    If are comparing the two for your needs then ShoreTEl is a far better
    choise. First of all you mentioned Qsig which ShoreTel does support.
    CME is basically dial tone replacement and isn't easy to manage and
    upgrades are nasty. You should take another look at ShoreTel for sure.
     
    , Oct 17, 2005
    #6
  7. Mitel Lurker Guest

    In article <>
    writes:

    >The Q.SIG is for integration with a trading turret system.
    >Thanks for the comments!


    We are doing exactly the same thing. Using Q.SIG between the Mitel and an
    Etrali turret system. Mitel supports the full load of Q.SIG, including
    CFB/CFNA reason codes, msg wtg set/clear, stepback on busy, diversion,
    CallerID Name & number.
     
    Mitel Lurker, Oct 17, 2005
    #7
  8. DPGumby Guest

    If you are looking at Mitel and cost is a consideration. The SX200ICP in the
    CX form will be a cost saving over a similar 3300ICP in the CX form. The
    SX200ICP is also a little stronger at mimicking a key system if that is your
    required setup. I only know Mitel so I tend to lean that way. Both systems
    are reliable and should fit your needs. They also have some more advanced
    features like teleworker ( running a set off the system from you home if you
    have DSL or other high speed ), ACD, ARS ( least cost routing ), Your
    Assistance ( laptop soft phone ) and all the other features of the TDM
    SX2000 and SX200 PBX's. The 3300ICP certainly supports QSIS as does the
    SX200ICP ( I believe ). Both come with a basic internal voicemail system,
    with an auto attendant capability for dial by name etc. The upgrade to the
    SX200ICP is basically plugging in a Compact Flash card with the new software
    and selecting the upgrade required ( pretty easy ) The 3300ICP has a windows
    bases "software installer" program that does pretty well everything on its
    own. You set up a laptop as an FTP server, download the new software from
    Mitel's web site into the home FTP directory and tell the software installer
    the IP address of your laptop. The rest is pretty easy just say if you want
    to backup the database and the voicemail messages and away we go. Without a
    voicemail backup its about 35 minutes. Any one with some IT experience
    should be able to handle that. The 3300 is managed via HTTP, with users
    having the ability to manage adding keys to their sets or groups of sets via
    a similar HTTP interface. If you wish to allow this type of access a
    separate login is created for each user or admin type person. Otherwise a
    central person can do all the admin. The 200ICP is managed via secure
    telnet. It does have a simple GUI based program for making set changes as
    well. Anyway hope this info is helpful. Maybe someone can give you Cisco
    info.


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hey all -
    >
    > I'm evaluating IP PBX's for a small site (20 or so users), but
    > reliability is key (business is almost 100% dependent on the phones
    > being up). We will be growing in the next year, and possibly with
    > remote sites. Our vmail needs are simple and we don't need unified
    > messaging or any type of call center applications (I don't foresee them
    > in the future either).
    >
    > I've looked at the Shoretel product, the Nortel BCM, the Avaya IP
    > Office, the Mitell 3300 series and a Cisco Call Manager. I looked at
    > CME, but TAC doesn't officially support QSIG on CME and I absolutely
    > need QSIG capability.
    >
    > Right now, my favorites are Mitel and Cisco. I've read a lot of
    > positive newsgroup postings about both, but it seems like upgrades of
    > CM down the road are a mess. Basically what's important is
    > functionality, ease of management, and most importantly,
    > reliability/uptime.
    >
    > I'm just looking for some peer advice/feedback instead of listening to
    > my various VARs talk their product up and put down the competition.
    >
    > Thanks!
    > B
    >
     
    DPGumby, Oct 17, 2005
    #8
  9. DPGumby Guest

    I have a couple of 3300's that use QSIG links to an Option 61 ( Nortel )
    without any problem once the Nortel VAR had everything set up ok. One site
    only uses its 3300 to run Spectralink wireless handsets ( supported directly
    via the 3300 on a 802.11b network. ).


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The Q.SIG is for integration with a trading turret system.
    > Thanks for the comments!
    >
     
    DPGumby, Oct 17, 2005
    #9
  10. Guest

    Just one more note about ShoreTel. If you'd like to see some unbiased
    opionions:
    The November 8th edition of PC Magazine just hit the stands. It
    includes an 8-page test and review of IP Phones systems for small
    business, including Avaya, Switchvox, 3Com and ShoreTel.
    ShoreTel received the Editors' Choice Award.
     
    , Oct 17, 2005
    #10
  11. Mitel Lurker Guest

    By the way, you don't need Mitel's Teleworker in order to put a Mitel IP
    set in the home. All that's needed is a DSL line and a Cisco 831 SOHO
    router with EZVPN. Perhaps a bit more expensive, but it allows you to
    effectively reserve some bandwidth for the VPN pipe thus allowing you (or
    your children) to choke the remaining channel with their favorite music or
    video download without impacting the voice quality on the VPN segment. I'm
    a little unsure how this works except to be able to attest that it indeed
    does.

    This of course is not true QOS, as upstream net.congestion at your ISP or
    beyond can still hammer your total bandwidth, but so far it seems to be a
    noticeable improvement over YA-Pro without the server requirement while at
    the same time giving you an honest-to-God physical multi-line display
    instrument to use (I dislike headsets).

    In article <asE4f.6213$> "DPGumby"
    <> writes:

    >If you are looking at Mitel and cost is a consideration. The SX200ICP in the
    >CX form will be a cost saving over a similar 3300ICP in the CX form. The
    >SX200ICP is also a little stronger at mimicking a key system if that is your
    >required setup. I only know Mitel so I tend to lean that way. Both systems
    >are reliable and should fit your needs. They also have some more advanced
    >features like teleworker ( running a set off the system from you home if you
    >have DSL or other high speed ), ACD, ARS ( least cost routing ), Your
    >Assistance ( laptop soft phone ) and all the other features of the TDM
    >SX2000 and SX200 PBX's. The 3300ICP certainly supports QSIS as does the
    >SX200ICP ( I believe ). Both come with a basic internal voicemail system,
    >with an auto attendant capability for dial by name etc. The upgrade to the
    >SX200ICP is basically plugging in a Compact Flash card with the new software
    >and selecting the upgrade required ( pretty easy ) The 3300ICP has a windows
    >bases "software installer" program that does pretty well everything on its
    >own. You set up a laptop as an FTP server, download the new software from
    >Mitel's web site into the home FTP directory and tell the software installer
    >the IP address of your laptop. The rest is pretty easy just say if you want
    >to backup the database and the voicemail messages and away we go. Without a
    >voicemail backup its about 35 minutes. Any one with some IT experience
    >should be able to handle that. The 3300 is managed via HTTP, with users
    >having the ability to manage adding keys to their sets or groups of sets via
    >a similar HTTP interface. If you wish to allow this type of access a
    >separate login is created for each user or admin type person. Otherwise a
    >central person can do all the admin. The 200ICP is managed via secure
    >telnet. It does have a simple GUI based program for making set changes as
    >well. Anyway hope this info is helpful. Maybe someone can give you Cisco
    >info.
    >
    >
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Hey all -
    >>
    >> I'm evaluating IP PBX's for a small site (20 or so users), but
    >> reliability is key (business is almost 100% dependent on the phones
    >> being up). We will be growing in the next year, and possibly with
    >> remote sites. Our vmail needs are simple and we don't need unified
    >> messaging or any type of call center applications (I don't foresee them
    >> in the future either).
    >>
    >> I've looked at the Shoretel product, the Nortel BCM, the Avaya IP
    >> Office, the Mitell 3300 series and a Cisco Call Manager. I looked at
    >> CME, but TAC doesn't officially support QSIG on CME and I absolutely
    >> need QSIG capability.
    >>
    >> Right now, my favorites are Mitel and Cisco. I've read a lot of
    >> positive newsgroup postings about both, but it seems like upgrades of
    >> CM down the road are a mess. Basically what's important is
    >> functionality, ease of management, and most importantly,
    >> reliability/uptime.
    >>
    >> I'm just looking for some peer advice/feedback instead of listening to
    >> my various VARs talk their product up and put down the competition.
    >>
    >> Thanks!
    >> B
    >>

    >
     
    Mitel Lurker, Oct 19, 2005
    #11
  12. DPGumby Guest

    I'd be interested on how that works, although if its more expensive, why
    would I go that route?


    "Mitel Lurker" <wdg@[206.180.145.133]> wrote in message
    news:...
    > By the way, you don't need Mitel's Teleworker in order to put a Mitel IP
    > set in the home. All that's needed is a DSL line and a Cisco 831 SOHO
    > router with EZVPN. Perhaps a bit more expensive, but it allows you to
    > effectively reserve some bandwidth for the VPN pipe thus allowing you (or
    > your children) to choke the remaining channel with their favorite music or
    > video download without impacting the voice quality on the VPN segment. I'm
    > a little unsure how this works except to be able to attest that it indeed
    > does.
    >
    > This of course is not true QOS, as upstream net.congestion at your ISP or
    > beyond can still hammer your total bandwidth, but so far it seems to be a
    > noticeable improvement over YA-Pro without the server requirement while at
    > the same time giving you an honest-to-God physical multi-line display
    > instrument to use (I dislike headsets).
    >
    > In article <asE4f.6213$> "DPGumby"
    > <> writes:
    >
    >>If you are looking at Mitel and cost is a consideration. The SX200ICP in
    >>the
    >>CX form will be a cost saving over a similar 3300ICP in the CX form. The
    >>SX200ICP is also a little stronger at mimicking a key system if that is
    >>your
    >>required setup. I only know Mitel so I tend to lean that way. Both systems
    >>are reliable and should fit your needs. They also have some more advanced
    >>features like teleworker ( running a set off the system from you home if
    >>you
    >>have DSL or other high speed ), ACD, ARS ( least cost routing ), Your
    >>Assistance ( laptop soft phone ) and all the other features of the TDM
    >>SX2000 and SX200 PBX's. The 3300ICP certainly supports QSIS as does the
    >>SX200ICP ( I believe ). Both come with a basic internal voicemail system,
    >>with an auto attendant capability for dial by name etc. The upgrade to the
    >>SX200ICP is basically plugging in a Compact Flash card with the new
    >>software
    >>and selecting the upgrade required ( pretty easy ) The 3300ICP has a
    >>windows
    >>bases "software installer" program that does pretty well everything on its
    >>own. You set up a laptop as an FTP server, download the new software from
    >>Mitel's web site into the home FTP directory and tell the software
    >>installer
    >>the IP address of your laptop. The rest is pretty easy just say if you
    >>want
    >>to backup the database and the voicemail messages and away we go. Without
    >>a
    >>voicemail backup its about 35 minutes. Any one with some IT experience
    >>should be able to handle that. The 3300 is managed via HTTP, with users
    >>having the ability to manage adding keys to their sets or groups of sets
    >>via
    >>a similar HTTP interface. If you wish to allow this type of access a
    >>separate login is created for each user or admin type person. Otherwise a
    >>central person can do all the admin. The 200ICP is managed via secure
    >>telnet. It does have a simple GUI based program for making set changes as
    >>well. Anyway hope this info is helpful. Maybe someone can give you Cisco
    >>info.
    >>
    >>
    >><> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Hey all -
    >>>
    >>> I'm evaluating IP PBX's for a small site (20 or so users), but
    >>> reliability is key (business is almost 100% dependent on the phones
    >>> being up). We will be growing in the next year, and possibly with
    >>> remote sites. Our vmail needs are simple and we don't need unified
    >>> messaging or any type of call center applications (I don't foresee them
    >>> in the future either).
    >>>
    >>> I've looked at the Shoretel product, the Nortel BCM, the Avaya IP
    >>> Office, the Mitell 3300 series and a Cisco Call Manager. I looked at
    >>> CME, but TAC doesn't officially support QSIG on CME and I absolutely
    >>> need QSIG capability.
    >>>
    >>> Right now, my favorites are Mitel and Cisco. I've read a lot of
    >>> positive newsgroup postings about both, but it seems like upgrades of
    >>> CM down the road are a mess. Basically what's important is
    >>> functionality, ease of management, and most importantly,
    >>> reliability/uptime.
    >>>
    >>> I'm just looking for some peer advice/feedback instead of listening to
    >>> my various VARs talk their product up and put down the competition.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks!
    >>> B
    >>>

    >>
     
    DPGumby, Oct 22, 2005
    #12
  13. Mitel Lurker Guest

    The 831 router (rather than the phone) establishes the VPN;
    !
    crypto ipsec client ezvpn ezvpn-client
    connect auto
    group ezvpn key Dal#vpn1ez
    mode network-extension
    peer 65.95.214.191
    xauth userid mode interactive
    !

    we are fundamentally extending a limited segment of the corporate ntwk out
    across the vpn path with encryption. The phone then downloads its image
    and authenticates over this path, just as though it was inside the corp
    office. All that is needed on the remote phone end is to hard code the IP
    address of the RTC and TFTP (which normally are identical).

    Without going into a lot of detail, the phone (and any corp office app)
    uses the VPN and any other surfing or emailing that you want to do goes to
    your ISP. The 831 router handles this. However much of the VPN bandwidth
    happens to be in use is unaffected by other traffic.

    The entire config on the router is less than 200 lines (and no, I'm not at
    liberty to post it here)

    Several reasons for going this route:

    1 - it eliminates having to explain to your network security cop why you
    need a gazillion ports opened up as you would with the Teleworker
    application. Some network security folks are extremely anal about this,
    even when it's only UDP traffic.

    2 - it eliminates the need for "YAS" (yet another server)

    3 - it allows you to send the user home with -any- IP phone, supported by
    teleworker or not and any Mfr, whether Mitel or Cisco (we have both a 3300
    as well as a Call Mgr on the voice netk). The user requires zero training
    except to hand them a phone with a cat-5 pigtail and say, "here, go home
    and plug it in".


    In article <65j6f.12752$> "DPGumby"
    <> writes:

    >I'd be interested on how that works, although if its more expensive, why
    >would I go that route?
     
    Mitel Lurker, Oct 22, 2005
    #13
  14. DPGumby Guest

    What is the cost of the 831 compared to the Teleworker option?

    Other then that, interesting points you bring up although point 3 would be
    the same for any system wouldn't it? I would think. If you can use a set on
    say the 3300, there is no training needed for teleworker. You config it and
    send it home to be plugged into the home router.

    "Mitel Lurker" <wdg@[206.180.145.133]> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The 831 router (rather than the phone) establishes the VPN;
    > !
    > crypto ipsec client ezvpn ezvpn-client
    > connect auto
    > group ezvpn key Dal#vpn1ez
    > mode network-extension
    > peer 65.95.214.191
    > xauth userid mode interactive
    > !
    >
    > we are fundamentally extending a limited segment of the corporate ntwk out
    > across the vpn path with encryption. The phone then downloads its image
    > and authenticates over this path, just as though it was inside the corp
    > office. All that is needed on the remote phone end is to hard code the IP
    > address of the RTC and TFTP (which normally are identical).
    >
    > Without going into a lot of detail, the phone (and any corp office app)
    > uses the VPN and any other surfing or emailing that you want to do goes to
    > your ISP. The 831 router handles this. However much of the VPN bandwidth
    > happens to be in use is unaffected by other traffic.
    >
    > The entire config on the router is less than 200 lines (and no, I'm not at
    > liberty to post it here)
    >
    > Several reasons for going this route:
    >
    > 1 - it eliminates having to explain to your network security cop why you
    > need a gazillion ports opened up as you would with the Teleworker
    > application. Some network security folks are extremely anal about this,
    > even when it's only UDP traffic.
    >
    > 2 - it eliminates the need for "YAS" (yet another server)
    >
    > 3 - it allows you to send the user home with -any- IP phone, supported by
    > teleworker or not and any Mfr, whether Mitel or Cisco (we have both a 3300
    > as well as a Call Mgr on the voice netk). The user requires zero training
    > except to hand them a phone with a cat-5 pigtail and say, "here, go home
    > and plug it in".
    >
    >
    > In article <65j6f.12752$> "DPGumby"
    > <> writes:
    >
    >>I'd be interested on how that works, although if its more expensive, why
    >>would I go that route?
     
    DPGumby, Oct 25, 2005
    #14
  15. Mitel Lurker Guest

    The 831 I believe is in the $400 neighborhood. But since we furnish the
    employee with DSL we furnish the router too. Keeps us a bit more in
    control.

    In article <Ari7f.4450$> "DPGumby"
    <> writes:

    >What is the cost of the 831 compared to the Teleworker option?
    >
    >Other then that, interesting points you bring up although point 3 would be
    >the same for any system wouldn't it? I would think. If you can use a set on
    >say the 3300, there is no training needed for teleworker. You config it and
    >send it home to be plugged into the home router.
    >
    >"Mitel Lurker" <wdg@[206.180.145.133]> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> The 831 router (rather than the phone) establishes the VPN;
    >> !
    >> crypto ipsec client ezvpn ezvpn-client
    >> connect auto
    >> group ezvpn key Dal#vpn1ez
    >> mode network-extension
    >> peer 65.95.214.191
    >> xauth userid mode interactive
    >> !
    >>
    >> we are fundamentally extending a limited segment of the corporate ntwk out
    >> across the vpn path with encryption. The phone then downloads its image
    >> and authenticates over this path, just as though it was inside the corp
    >> office. All that is needed on the remote phone end is to hard code the IP
    >> address of the RTC and TFTP (which normally are identical).
    >>
    >> Without going into a lot of detail, the phone (and any corp office app)
    >> uses the VPN and any other surfing or emailing that you want to do goes to
    >> your ISP. The 831 router handles this. However much of the VPN bandwidth
    >> happens to be in use is unaffected by other traffic.
    >>
    >> The entire config on the router is less than 200 lines (and no, I'm not at
    >> liberty to post it here)
    >>
    >> Several reasons for going this route:
    >>
    >> 1 - it eliminates having to explain to your network security cop why you
    >> need a gazillion ports opened up as you would with the Teleworker
    >> application. Some network security folks are extremely anal about this,
    >> even when it's only UDP traffic.
    >>
    >> 2 - it eliminates the need for "YAS" (yet another server)
    >>
    >> 3 - it allows you to send the user home with -any- IP phone, supported by
    >> teleworker or not and any Mfr, whether Mitel or Cisco (we have both a 3300
    >> as well as a Call Mgr on the voice netk). The user requires zero training
    >> except to hand them a phone with a cat-5 pigtail and say, "here, go home
    >> and plug it in".
    >>
    >>
    >> In article <65j6f.12752$> "DPGumby"
    >> <> writes:
    >>
    >>>I'd be interested on how that works, although if its more expensive, why
    >>>would I go that route?

    >
     
    Mitel Lurker, Oct 27, 2005
    #15
  16. jneiberger@ Guest

    wrote:
    > Just one more note about ShoreTel. If you'd like to see some unbiased
    > opionions:
    > The November 8th edition of PC Magazine just hit the stands. It
    > includes an 8-page test and review of IP Phones systems for small
    > business, including Avaya, Switchvox, 3Com and ShoreTel.
    > ShoreTel received the Editors' Choice Award.


    Since when does ShoreTel support Q.SIG? They didn't as of just a few
    months ago. Is this a recent addition?

    Based on the needs of the original poster, I would recommend a single
    Mitel system. However, based on my recent experience during an RFP with
    both Mitel and Cisco, I would recommend Cisco for larger networks.
    Since this is a smaller site, has minimal Q.SIG interoperability
    requirements, and has simple VM needs, the Mitel 3300 CX is a natural
    fit as long as you have a good VAR to install, configure, and maintain
    it.
     
    jneiberger@, Nov 4, 2005
    #16
  17. pump973 Guest

    Notify

    How will i know hen it is done? :(
     
    pump973, Nov 25, 2005
    #17
    1. Advertising

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