IP address

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by zan, Feb 16, 2006.

  1. zan

    zan Guest

    I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing music
    through kazaa I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a lawyer
    that I cannot afford. I plan to use the defense that :


    .. An Internet Service Provider (ISP) such as RCN has no way of proving an
    identity of a computer
    system unless they use an authentication based protocol such as PPP/OE for
    connectivity.
    .. In the event have an authentication based protocol is used, a computer can
    only be truly identified if
    logs are kept by the ISP that clearly states: The time of the login, The
    User ID that logged in, the
    MAC Address of the computer that logged in as well as the IP Address. Even
    if these logs are
    adequately maintained by the ISP there is still a possibility that a hacker
    or malicious user could of
    taken control of the machine and performed the login.
    .. ISP's typically provide "dynamic" IP addresses (also known as DHCP) which
    change from time to
    time. On a cable modem or DSL network this means that one day an IP Address
    may belong to
    Household A, and the next day (or hours late) it could belong to Household
    B.
    .. IP Addresses can be faked or "spoofed"
    .. MAC addresses, while hard coded into a network interface cards (aka,
    network card, aka wireless
    cards) can be altered using utilities that are readily available via the
    internet.
    .. Computer hackers use unprotected computers that are connected to the
    internet as platforms for
    storing illegal content such as pirated software, mp3's, porn, and other
    inappropriate materials.
    .. Wireless routers that are purchased at retail stores such as Best Buy and
    Circuit City are "open' by
    default. This means that any individual with a wireless enabled PC can
    access the internet through
    the wireless router if not properly secured.
    .. Remote Desktop is a feature of Windows 2000 and Windows XP that allows
    remote control over a
    PC from the internet. If this feature was enabled and no passwords were
    defined, any individual
    could connect

    If these statements are put into yes or no question form and asked of the
    plaintiffs expert witness what response should / would be received
    zan, Feb 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. zan

    Todd H. Guest

    "zan" <> writes:
    > I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing
    > music through kazaa


    Well, did you?

    > I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a lawyer that I
    > cannot afford.


    Surely you've head the saying that the man who choses to represent
    himself in court has a fool for a client. It's time to get creative.

    Have you considered beating the bushes for a lawyer who'd like nothing
    better than to kick the RIAA's litigation-happy ass back into the
    stone age, and might take your case pro bono to make a name for him or
    herself? There have got to be tons of such lawyers out there wanting
    a good defendant to beat the snot out of these weighty bastards on
    this ridiculous practice of suing their customers without a true
    "preponderance of the evidence."

    Also, I imagine you've got the battle that the RIAA needn't prove the
    the criminal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt," but instead,
    just needs to show "a preponderance of the evidence."

    >I plan to use the defense that :
    >
    > . An Internet Service Provider (ISP) such as RCN has no way of proving an
    > identity of a computer
    > system unless they use an authentication based protocol such as PPP/OE for
    > connectivity.


    Flimsy at best. If it's a cable modem, they can be reasonably sure
    what residence is doing it, but cable modem MAC addresses can be
    spoofed too, and a malicious user can spoof a cable modem MAC address
    and operate looking like another customer.

    There's also still the possibility of a malicious attacker hijacking
    your computer.

    You're going to not only develop sterling knowledge of all the
    possible ways someone could be "framed" by an attacker, but also be
    able to explain these to a jury of your peers...and the bad news is
    that explaining technical topics to the everyman is nearly impossible
    even for an experienced, charismatc, sharp litigator.

    > In the event have an authentication based protocol is used, a
    > computer can only be truly identified if logs are kept by the ISP
    > that clearly states: The time of the login, The User ID that logged
    > in, the MAC Address of the computer that logged in as well as the IP
    > Address. Even if these logs are adequately maintained by the ISP
    > there is still a possibility that a hacker or malicious user could
    > of taken control of the machine and performed the login.


    True. But then get ready for getting beat up regarding negligence for
    you not securing your computer system.

    > . ISP's typically provide "dynamic" IP addresses (also known as
    > DHCP) which change from time to time. On a cable modem or DSL
    > network this means that one day an IP Address may belong to
    > Household A, and the next day (or hours late) it could belong to
    > Household B.


    That is true. But surely the ISP logs that I assume the RIAA is
    basing their claim on include who and when a given IP is shown.

    > . IP Addresses can be faked or "spoofed"


    True. But if you spoof an IP, the response goes back to that IP, and
    unless you've got the ability to sniff an intervening segment where
    that traffic is going, the attacker won't be ableto make use of that
    effectively and consistently.

    > . MAC addresses, while hard coded into a network interface cards (aka,
    > network card, aka wireless
    > cards) can be altered using utilities that are readily available via the
    > internet.


    True. But you need a more complete picture than that.

    > . Computer hackers use unprotected computers that are connected to the
    > internet as platforms for
    > storing illegal content such as pirated software, mp3's, porn, and other
    > inappropriate materials.


    That's correct.

    > . Wireless routers that are purchased at retail stores such as Best Buy and
    > Circuit City are "open' by
    > default. This means that any individual with a wireless enabled PC can
    > access the internet through
    > the wireless router if not properly secured.


    Correct, but it's not clear if it's applicable in your case.

    > . Remote Desktop is a feature of Windows 2000 and Windows XP that allows
    > remote control over a
    > PC from the internet. If this feature was enabled and no passwords were
    > defined, any individual
    > could connect


    On cross, they'll say "If you were dumb enough to enable it, true."
    and then be ready for negligence claims.

    > If these statements are put into yes or no question form and asked of the
    > plaintiffs expert witness what response should / would be received


    Have they confiscated your computer? What evidence are they alleging
    against you?

    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/
    Todd H., Feb 16, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. zan

    ArtDent Guest

    On 16-Feb-2006, "zan" <> wrote:

    > what response should / would be received


    You are going to jail.
    --
    We apologize for the inconvenience
    ArtDent, Feb 16, 2006
    #3
  4. zan schreef:
    > I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing music
    > through kazaa I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a lawyer
    > that I cannot afford. I plan to use the defense that :


    A Dutch politician got off the hook (she got to keep her job) by blaming
    positive entries about herself on her own weblog to "spoofers".
    She also blames positive entries about her on Dutch wikipedia on the
    same "blackhats".

    As spoofing seems indeed a piece of cake, you might want to go there.
    Of course you'll need a real, motivated lawyer.

    Good luck,
    John
    John Veldhuis, Feb 16, 2006
    #4
  5. zan

    Todd H. Guest

    "ArtDent" <> writes:

    > On 16-Feb-2006, "zan" <> wrote:
    >
    > > what response should / would be received

    >
    > You are going to jail.


    If it's the RIAA suing him, nah... he'd just be bankrupt.

    Civil vs criminal, etc.

    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/
    Todd H., Feb 16, 2006
    #5
  6. zan

    nemo_outis Guest

    "zan" <> wrote in news::

    > I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing music
    > through kazaa I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a
    > lawyer that I cannot afford. I plan to use the defense that :




    A man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool as his client.

    Regards,
    nemo_outis, Feb 16, 2006
    #6
  7. zan

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:44:19 -0500, "zan" <> wrote:

    >I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing music
    >through kazaa I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a lawyer
    >that I cannot afford. I plan to use the defense that :


    They are supposed to provide you with a copy of the evidence they
    plan to use.

    Look carefully at the admissibility of computer records.

    Have you got any children who use your computer without
    supervision ?

    It is on an open wireless router isn't it?

    Better still try to find a sympathetic lawyer.

    Let us know how you get on.

    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
    Jim Watt, Feb 16, 2006
    #7
  8. zan

    donnie Guest

    On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:44:19 -0500, "zan" <> wrote:

    >I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing music
    >through kazaa I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a lawyer
    >that I cannot afford. I plan to use the defense that :

    ##############################################
    I've read some of the responses and I'd like backup for a minute.
    How much are they suing you for? You didn't mention an amount. Is it
    a civil case or did they swear out a complaint against you w/ the DA?
    I know a guy who works for the IRA. He works the flea markets. If
    someone is selling bootleg CDs, he goes to the police and swears out a
    criminal complaint. I bet the cops don't want to be bothered when
    they are expecting an easy day at the flea market but that's the way
    it goes. You have to be clear. Is it a civil or criminal case?
    donnie, Feb 17, 2006
    #8
  9. zan

    Guest

    zan wrote:
    > I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing music
    > through kazaa I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a lawyer
    > that I cannot afford. I plan to use the defense that :
    >
    >
    > . An Internet Service Provider (ISP) such as RCN has no way of proving an
    > identity of a computer
    > system unless they use an authentication based protocol such as PPP/OE for
    > connectivity.
    > . In the event have an authentication based protocol is used, a computer can
    > only be truly identified if
    > logs are kept by the ISP that clearly states: The time of the login, The
    > User ID that logged in, the
    > MAC Address of the computer that logged in as well as the IP Address. Even
    > if these logs are
    > adequately maintained by the ISP there is still a possibility that a hacker
    > or malicious user could of
    > taken control of the machine and performed the login.
    > . ISP's typically provide "dynamic" IP addresses (also known as DHCP) which
    > change from time to
    > time. On a cable modem or DSL network this means that one day an IP Address
    > may belong to
    > Household A, and the next day (or hours late) it could belong to Household
    > B.
    > . IP Addresses can be faked or "spoofed"
    > . MAC addresses, while hard coded into a network interface cards (aka,
    > network card, aka wireless
    > cards) can be altered using utilities that are readily available via the
    > internet.
    > . Computer hackers use unprotected computers that are connected to the
    > internet as platforms for
    > storing illegal content such as pirated software, mp3's, porn, and other
    > inappropriate materials.
    > . Wireless routers that are purchased at retail stores such as Best Buy and
    > Circuit City are "open' by
    > default. This means that any individual with a wireless enabled PC can
    > access the internet through
    > the wireless router if not properly secured.
    > . Remote Desktop is a feature of Windows 2000 and Windows XP that allows
    > remote control over a
    > PC from the internet. If this feature was enabled and no passwords were
    > defined, any individual
    > could connect
    >


    how about selling the house and fleeing to mexaco?
    I guess you could win if you provide evidence that this malicious
    activity occurred.
    , Feb 17, 2006
    #9
  10. zan

    BernieM Guest

    "zan" <> wrote in message news:...
    >I am Being sued by the music industry for allegedly distributing music
    > through kazaa I am representing myself do to the outrages cost of a lawyer
    > that I cannot afford. I plan to use the defense that :
    >
    >
    > . An Internet Service Provider (ISP) such as RCN has no way of proving an
    > identity of a computer
    > system unless they use an authentication based protocol such as PPP/OE for
    > connectivity.
    > . In the event have an authentication based protocol is used, a computer
    > can
    > only be truly identified if
    > logs are kept by the ISP that clearly states: The time of the login, The
    > User ID that logged in, the
    > MAC Address of the computer that logged in as well as the IP Address. Even
    > if these logs are
    > adequately maintained by the ISP there is still a possibility that a
    > hacker
    > or malicious user could of
    > taken control of the machine and performed the login.
    > . ISP's typically provide "dynamic" IP addresses (also known as DHCP)
    > which
    > change from time to
    > time. On a cable modem or DSL network this means that one day an IP
    > Address
    > may belong to
    > Household A, and the next day (or hours late) it could belong to Household
    > B.
    > . IP Addresses can be faked or "spoofed"
    > . MAC addresses, while hard coded into a network interface cards (aka,
    > network card, aka wireless
    > cards) can be altered using utilities that are readily available via the
    > internet.
    > . Computer hackers use unprotected computers that are connected to the
    > internet as platforms for
    > storing illegal content such as pirated software, mp3's, porn, and other
    > inappropriate materials.
    > . Wireless routers that are purchased at retail stores such as Best Buy
    > and
    > Circuit City are "open' by
    > default. This means that any individual with a wireless enabled PC can
    > access the internet through
    > the wireless router if not properly secured.
    > . Remote Desktop is a feature of Windows 2000 and Windows XP that allows
    > remote control over a
    > PC from the internet. If this feature was enabled and no passwords were
    > defined, any individual
    > could connect
    >
    > If these statements are put into yes or no question form and asked of
    > the
    > plaintiffs expert witness what response should / would be received
    >
    >


    I think your argument that a hacker could have been using the pc won't go
    very far unless you can prove it happened. Not only would you have to prove
    the pc was hacked but prove it was the hacker that downloaded the music.
    Even then aren't you responsible for the security of the pc? Doesn't your
    ISP expect you to take appropriate steps to safeguard your PC? Have you
    done that? As the pc's 'owner' there's a certain degree of responsibility
    your can't get out of. That's why businesses also get fined for the actions
    of their employees.

    It's your pc, your internet account ... your responsibility ... you're
    screwed.
    BernieM, Feb 17, 2006
    #10
  11. zan

    Ron Lopshire Guest

    Todd H. wrote:

    > "ArtDent" <> writes:
    >
    >
    >>On 16-Feb-2006, "zan" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>what response should / would be received

    >>
    >>You are going to jail.

    >
    >
    > If it's the RIAA suing him, nah... he'd just be bankrupt.
    >
    > Civil vs criminal, etc.
    >


    These guys have been fighting the abuses of RIAA (DRM) for quite a while:

    (http://ij.org/)
    (http://reason.com/)
    (http://reason.org/)

    Ron :)
    Ron Lopshire, Feb 18, 2006
    #11
  12. You should use a lawyer if you're going to court, it might invlove
    different aspects of internet law, which is still a largely new area.

    Regards,


    * www.privacyoffshore.net (No Logs Internet Surfing)
    * Anonymous Secure Offshore SSH-2 Surfing Tunnels
    * Anonymous Mail & News through SSH-2 Tunnels
    * Free Resources and Privacy Software
    (admins) privacyoffshore, Feb 18, 2006
    #12
  13. (admins) privacyoffshore wrote:

    > You should use a lawyer if you're going to court, it might invlove
    > different aspects of internet law,


    You should know all about it Adem/Adminus/trilight/scammer.

    To the readers of ACS, check out this guys domain registration and choice
    of hosts to see just what a liar and a scammer he is. Or read how he was
    already exposed in AP/APAS.
    George Orwell, Feb 18, 2006
    #13
  14. zan

    traveler 66 Guest

    On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:27:07 +0100 (CET), George Orwell wrote:

    > (admins) privacyoffshore wrote:
    >
    >> You should use a lawyer if you're going to court, it might invlove
    >> different aspects of internet law,

    >
    > You should know all about it Adem/Adminus/trilight/scammer.
    >
    > To the readers of ACS, check out this guys domain registration and choice
    > of hosts to see just what a liar and a scammer he is. Or read how he was
    > already exposed in AP/APAS.


    Your a troll and a spreader of FUD, he told you the facts, go play in the
    mud with Gielda, it's where you belong, I wouldn't be surprised if you
    where Gielda?

    Flush
    traveler 66, Feb 18, 2006
    #14
  15. zan

    DRosen Guest

    traveler 66 wrote:
    > On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:27:07 +0100 (CET), George Orwell wrote:
    >
    > > (admins) privacyoffshore wrote:
    > >
    > >> You should use a lawyer if you're going to court, it might invlove
    > >> different aspects of internet law,

    > >
    > > You should know all about it Adem/Adminus/trilight/scammer.
    > >
    > > To the readers of ACS, check out this guys domain registration and choice
    > > of hosts to see just what a liar and a scammer he is. Or read how he was
    > > already exposed in AP/APAS.

    >
    > Your a troll and a spreader of FUD, he told you the facts, go play in the


    Excuse me sir, but your little sock puppet is hanging out. Please pull
    your zippper up, you're embarrasing yourself.

    You know, you try and pull these stupid stunts all the time.You reply
    to other posts like they were to you, with the same screwed up spelling
    grammar the original illiterate used.

    Know what puppet? Not until /after/ I read your stupid sock puppet
    reply did I even bother to check. Sure enough this alleged "other
    person" lied about where his web site was hosted, and it sure as hell
    is hosted on one of the biggest toilet hosts on the entire Internet.
    It's almost like a mirror image of the marijuana scam host one of your
    other services is/was hosted on. It's obviously nothing more than
    another spinof, and you're not even honest enough to just fess up to
    this one. Why? Are you embarassed, or just scheming for more business?

    It really is beginning to look like everything our anonymous friend is
    saying is true. Thanks for the nudge in the right direction anyway,
    puppet. :p

    > mud with Gielda, it's where you belong, I wouldn't be surprised if you
    > where Gielda?


    Go ahead, attack the thing that embarrases you the most. An honest and
    reputable man doing business in an honest and reputable way. It makes
    you look even more guilty. Every attack is one more piece of proof
    you're a total ass with nothing to offer but your agenda.

    >
    > Flush


    You keep doing this stupid shit too. Say you're "flushing" then
    replying anyway. Like you're desperate or something. And all your
    little sock puppets do it, with the exact same glaring level of
    illiteracy.

    You're fooling nobody. You're making a complete joke out of yourself.
    It really is a sad sight.
    DRosen, Feb 18, 2006
    #15
  16. zan

    traveler 66 Guest

    DRosen wrote:

    > traveler 66 wrote:
    >
    >>On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:27:07 +0100 (CET), George Orwell wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>(admins) privacyoffshore wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>You should use a lawyer if you're going to court, it might invlove
    >>>>different aspects of internet law,
    >>>
    >>>You should know all about it Adem/Adminus/trilight/scammer.
    >>>
    >>>To the readers of ACS, check out this guys domain registration and choice
    >>>of hosts to see just what a liar and a scammer he is. Or read how he was
    >>>already exposed in AP/APAS.

    >>
    >>Your a troll and a spreader of FUD, he told you the facts, go play in the

    >
    >
    > Excuse me sir, but your little sock puppet is hanging out. Please pull
    > your zippper up, you're embarrasing yourself.


    Speak for yourself troll.

    >
    > You know, you try and pull these stupid stunts all the time.You reply
    > to other posts like they were to you, with the same screwed up spelling
    > grammar the original illiterate used.


    Read again

    >
    > Know what puppet? Not until /after/ I read your stupid sock puppet
    > reply did I even bother to check. Sure enough this alleged "other
    > person" lied about where his web site was hosted, and it sure as hell


    As I recall "Sir" he said it was hosted with a company in/does business
    in Florida, which it does, I checked. They also registered their domain
    for them, out of Florida, looks like they locate the web site offshore.

    > is hosted on one of the biggest toilet hosts on the entire Internet.
    > It's almost like a mirror image of the marijuana scam host one of your
    > other services is/was hosted on.


    I don't have any "other" service. It seems to me in the effort to make
    these new guy's look bad, trolls are grasping at straws in an effort to
    spread FUD.

    If by chance you're referring to www.totse.net you'll have to ask
    someone else about that one, lol.

    >It's obviously nothing more than
    > another spinof, and you're not even honest enough to just fess up to
    > this one. Why? Are you embarassed, or just scheming for more business?


    Now there you go again playing you're FUD!

    >
    > It really is beginning to look like everything our anonymous friend is
    > saying is true. Thanks for the nudge in the right direction anyway,
    > puppet. :p


    No it's not, and you're most likely the original poster of the FUD.

    >
    >
    >>mud with Gielda, it's where you belong, I wouldn't be surprised if you
    >>where Gielda?

    >
    >
    > Go ahead, attack the thing that embarrases you the most. An honest and
    > reputable man doing business in an honest and reputable way. It makes
    > you look even more guilty. Every attack is one more piece of proof
    > you're a total ass with nothing to offer but your agenda.


    Keep playing the game, people won't appreciate it when they see what
    he's doing. Why doesn't ANY other admin from anywhere else post in the
    privacy groups? Reason is you're honest reputable man and his trolls
    flame them ALL with FUD, and they leave. In reference to a p.m. someone
    sent me, ask you're good honest reputable man about his "boxie"
    troll/puppet, it may still be up on his web site. I'd love to hear what
    he has to say before I post the details! You can reply to that one in
    alt.privacy if you like.

    >
    >
    >>Flush

    >
    >
    > You keep doing this stupid shit too. Say you're "flushing" then
    > replying anyway. Like you're desperate or something. And all your
    > little sock puppets do it, with the exact same glaring level of
    > illiteracy.


    Don't post FUD

    >
    > You're fooling nobody. You're making a complete joke out of yourself.
    > It really is a sad sight.


    You're the sad sight, it's a joke watching you play with yourself.
    traveler 66, Feb 18, 2006
    #16
  17. traveler 66 wrote:

    > ... playing you're... ask you're...


    It's 'your', not 'you're' you... FUCKING ILLITERATE MORON!

    ## ## ## ### ####### ####
    ## ### ### ## ## ## ## ####
    ## #### #### ## ## ## ## ####
    ## ## ### ## ## ## ## ## ##
    ## ## ## ######### ## ##
    ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ####
    ######## ## ## ## ## ####### ####
    George Orwell, Feb 18, 2006
    #17
  18. zan

    traveler 66 Guest

    "George Orwell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > traveler 66 wrote:
    >
    > > ... playing you're... ask you're...

    >
    > It's 'your', not 'you're' you... FUCKING ILLITERATE MORON!
    >
    > ## ## ## ### ####### ####
    > ## ### ### ## ## ## ## ####
    > ## #### #### ## ## ## ## ####
    > ## ## ### ## ## ## ## ## ##
    > ## ## ## ######### ## ##
    > ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ####
    > ######## ## ## ## ## ####### ####


    That depends on where you're from and what kind of English you use "Moron",
    and don't draw a conclusion about my location, lol.
    traveler 66, Feb 18, 2006
    #18
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