IP Address Questions

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Aug 18, 2007.

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    Subject: Re: IP Address Questions
    From: Luke O'Malley <>
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    Luke O'Malley, Aug 19, 2007
    #21
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  2. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    WhzzKdd Guest

    "Luke O'Malley" <> wrote in message
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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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    >
    >
    > Luke O'Malley wrote:
    >> Hi
    >>
    >> Perhaps you can help. I have three computers and they are attached
    >> to a router. Do they all have the same IP address? If someone
    >> hooked onto my wireless system would they have the same IP address?

    >
    > No, and no. No two devices can have the same IP address, otherwise
    > it
    > simply no workee. Most routers hand out private IP addresses that
    > are
    > something like 192.168.0.2 or some variation. If someone else
    > attaches
    > to your network, they'll need a unique IP address to function. Want
    > to
    > explain in more detail what you think is going on?
    >
    >
    > Thank you for your reply. It clears up my question partially. How
    > would I go about determining if one of my neighbors is using my
    > internet connection.



    Why don't you just lock down your connection and be done with it?
     
    WhzzKdd, Aug 19, 2007
    #22
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  3. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Evan Platt Guest

    On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:06:38 GMT, Luke O'Malley
    <> wrote:

    >A million years ago I got a dos version with a modem. Then I
    >purchased an updated one. Since then it sold to two companies. I
    >think symantec has it now


    God, please get a program that quotes properly.
    --
    To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious from my e-mail address.
     
    Evan Platt, Aug 19, 2007
    #23
  4. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Mike Easter Guest

    Luke O'Malley wrote:
    > Thank you for your reply. It clears up my question partially. I am

    very upset about a situation I am going through.

    The way you are posting right now is completely wrong. Stop it.

    > If some one was trying to detect which of these computers was

    downloading, would it be possible?

    The short answer in the context that you are meaning when you are asking
    your question is 'No.'

    It /would/ be possible for you to monitor your own router's activity
    /if/ it could keep proper logs and /if/ you had some logging software
    and /if/ you knew how to use it. But I suspect that most of those 'ifs'
    are not true.

    But, it would not be possible for someone 'external' to your LAN who
    could only see the activity of your IP 67.80.251.169. All of the
    activities of all of the computers on the network would look like the
    activity of that one IP. Your network functions as a 'single unit' in
    terms of how its activities on the internet look.

    > (I think I have a neighbor using my connection!)


    That is highly likely, especially if you don't have your wireless router
    secured. Wireless rustling is considered a 'legitimate' sport by some.
    Those 'some' think that if someone like you in the neighborhood is
    making a wireless connectivity freely available for them to use, then
    they should just use it.

    > I received a notice from my IP that Universal claims that I am

    downloading a copyrighted file - that I am not downloading.

    You can be taken to court and you can be sued for the activities which
    take place on your insecure wireless network. You are responsible for
    all of the activity which is taking place on the IP address which is
    'leased' to you.

    > I would expect that Universal should be able to determine which of my

    neighbors is using my connection. Am I right?

    No. You are wrong.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Aug 19, 2007
    #24
  5. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Mr. Arnold Guest


    >
    > Thank you for your reply. It clears up my question partially.
    >
    > This is what I am driving at: my IP sent me an email that Universal
    > claims that I am downloading a copyrighted film that I am not
    > downloading. I have no idea where they got this info from. Then I
    > thought maybe someone is tapping into my wireless router. I thought
    > that Universal should be able to distinguish my three computers and
    > another intruder. That is the basis of my question.


    No, they cannot do that -- look past your router and determine which
    private LAN IP or Local Area Network IP a computer is using on the router.

    But, your wireless network can be hacked on the wireless with someone with
    their computer joining your network, obtaining a DHCP IP/private LAN IP
    from the DHCP Server on the router or they just went and got a static LAN IP
    on your router and used it

    If your wireless network is so attacable that someone can join it on the
    wireless side, they will have access to the Internet just like any other
    machine (your own machines) that are connected to the router wired or
    wireless will have, with each having their own unique IP on the LAN becuase
    the DHCP server on the router issued a DHCP IP to the computer or they just
    used a staic IP on the router. In either case of what IP is being used a
    DHCP IP the router gave the machine or the hacker went and got a static IP
    from your router, they have access to the Internet with the machine.

    >
    > I thought for my simple mind that the answer would be something
    > like, "No, it impossible to distinguish which of the 'four'
    > computers is downloading the file." or "Yes, Universal, if the
    > exerted themselves more could determine that it wasn't one of my
    > three computers."
    >
    > The next question is how can I prevent someone from accessing my
    > wireless router?


    Universal can be looking at your WAN IP/Internet facing IP which is one IP
    that doesn't change if you have a BB or DSL connection. The WAN IP is the IP
    the ISP assigns to your modem (for lack of better words) and the router is
    connected to the modem using that WAN IP.

    If a computer is connected to the modem without the router being there, then
    it's using that WAN IP from the modem. The WAN means Wide Area
    Network/Internet and the WAN/IP is the public facing IP that is used to send
    traffic to/from the Internet from one computer or network of computers in
    the case of computers connected to the router, and everyone can see that
    WAN/public facing Internet/IP on the Internet.

    NAT is mapping technology that allows a single IP the WAN/IP to be used by
    many machines having a private LAN IP on the router in this case. NAT knows
    how to map the traffic back to the LAN IP/machine connected to the router.

    http://www.homenethelp.com/web/explain/about-NAT.asp

    No one can see past NAT to see what machine on the LAN has a private LAN/IP
    or what machine it is on your network that is doing it, like 192.168.1.100
    if a machine has the IP on the LAN. But they all can see that WAN/IP IP on
    the Internet and the can record that WAN/IP.
     
    Mr. Arnold, Aug 19, 2007
    #25
  6. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    why? Guest

    On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:26:55 GMT, Luke O'Malley wrote:

    >Hi


    Your replies are hard to follow, your nice (I do remember PCP) app is
    adding the msg headers and not quoting correctly and wrecking the line
    wrap.

    >Perhaps you can help. I have three computers and they are attached
    >to a router. Do they all have the same IP address? If someone
    >hooked onto my wireless system would they have the same IP address?


    I think it's (thread) still at the, you are asking about stoping somone
    using the wireless connection.

    A couple of links reposted in 24HSHD every so often,
    http://netsecurity.about.com/cs/wireless/a/aa112203_2.htm
    http://compnetworking.about.com/od/wirelesssecurity/tp/wifisecurity.htm

    Most wireless routers should allow you to enter the MAC address (1)
    http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/MAC.html
    of systems to allow, with a check box deny all others.

    You (generally) find the MAC address on a WIndows OS PC from the command
    prompt with the command

    ipconfig/all

    There is a line, under the adapter type

    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0E-0C-9C-6E-FB

    [ sometimes format may be different for different vendors, alternatives
    are 00:0E:0C:9C:6E:FB , 000E0C9C6EFB or 000E.0C9C.6EFB ]

    Do this for each wireless PC and set your addresses to allow only those
    over the wireless connection. Of course you should also take simple
    precautions like using a non default SSID, not broadcasting the SSID a
    lot of routers this is a default. Turning on encryption and using a key
    only known to you.

    My Belkin wireless router will also display active leases, hostname and
    MAC address, as mentioned you get IP addresses 192.168.0.2, 0.3 etc. If
    1 of those showed up as a MAC that wan't mine I would know.

    The other thing I did was to change the router DCHP pool from the
    default (whatever it was 100 addresses) to 2 , i.e. 192.168.0.2 and 0.3,
    the other PCs are all wired and set manually to fixed address
    192.168.0.10 and above.

    This means the pool of DHCP for wired / wireless connections is only 2
    addresses. That on it's own is easier to manage.

    A few other features of the belkin are

    Setting access times via IP addresses, and port. It would allow 1 to
    block port 80 web browsing but allow mail to work.

    I bought an access point, disabled all wireless clients from connecting.
    This means insted of -

    wireless laptop - router

    I have to do

    mobile laptop - (hardwired) access point - router
    or
    wireless laptop - bridge mode access point - router

    The router is set to only allow the access point via it's MAC address.
    The pain of this was the initial extra power and configuring 2 wireless
    devices and extra connection for the AP. It does work.


    1 setting the Belkin doesn't have is the ability to redice the power
    levels to cut down the range, this may help as well.

    >Thanks in advance
    >
    >Luke
    >


    Me
     
    why?, Aug 19, 2007
    #26
  7. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2007-08-19, Luke O'Malley <> wrote:
    > On 2007-08-18, Whiskers <> wrote:
    >> On 2007-08-18, Luke O'Malley <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Hi
    >>>
    >>> Perhaps you can help. I have three computers and they are attached
    >>> to a router. Do they all have the same IP address? If someone
    >>> hooked onto my wireless system would they have the same IP address?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks in advance
    >>>
    >>> Luke

    >>
    >> The public IP number of the internet connection from which you
    >> posted your
    >> article is 67.80.251.169 and anyone using the internet from that
    >> connection will have the same public IP number. If there is more
    >> than one
    >> machine on your local network, then your router will allocate a
    >> local IP
    >> number (probably 192.168.x.y where x and y are numbers between 0 and
    >> 254)
    >> to each one (and one to itself too) and your router will take care of
    >> sorting out which incoming stuff from the internet is meant for
    >> which local
    >> computer.

    >
    > Thank you for your reply. It clears up my question partially. If
    > some one was trying to detect which of these computers was
    > downloading, would it be possible? (I think I have a neighbor using
    > my connection!)


    Look for ethernet cables that connect to your router but don't lead to one
    of the computers you want to have using your internet connection.

    If your router has a 'wireless' facility, turn it off if you aren't using
    it yourself. If you want to use the wireless facility yourself, then you
    should use your router's "MAC filter" settings to prevent any computer
    from getting a connection unless you have entered the MAC number of its
    wireless network card into the list of permitted users. Also make sure
    that you have changed the password for the router from the default it left
    the factory with! It's safest to use an ethernet connection for the
    computer you use to make such settings, especially as it seems that your
    network is already 'compromised'.

    Some routers offer additional security features for wireless access, such
    as requiring a password from the user (or the machine) before any machine
    can connect.

    Please try to find the settings for your newsreader to

    1) Quote correctly
    2) include an attribution line
    3) not include all the headers of the article being replied to
    4) use plain text only, not 'multipart/mixed'

    as your replies are very difficult to make sense of.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Aug 19, 2007
    #27
  8. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Mr. Arnold Guest

    > The next question is how can I prevent someone from accessing my
    > wireless router?
    >


    I missed that part.

    You can follow some of the things in the link for what it's worth. It will
    most likely stop the average Joe Blow home user a next door neighbor as an
    example from accessing your wireless network.

    http://compnetworking.about.com/od/wirelesssecurity/tp/wifisecurity.htm

    But someone with some expertise was coming after your wireless, then it may
    not stop he or she, and the measures are just a bumps in the road he or she
    ran over.

    The other thing you can do if the router you have can produce logs and you
    can use something like Wallwatcher is review the logs to see traffic leaving
    your router by LAN IP and what remote IP(s) WAN/IP(s) the machines are
    connecting to.

    You should know all the LAN IP(s) your machines are using, and if you see an
    IP other than the IP(s) for your machines in the logs, then you'll know
    someone is on your wireless LAN using it, at least you'll see the activity.

    http://sonic.net/wallwatcher/
     
    Mr. Arnold, Aug 19, 2007
    #28
  9. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Alfred Guest

    On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 01:11:20 GMT, Luke O'Malley
    <> wrote:

    >Thank you for your reply. It clears up my question partially. How
    >would I go about determining if one of my neighbors is using my
    >internet connection. I received a notice to stop downloading a file
    >I was not downloading, and Universal wants me to contact them to
    >indicated that the problem has been solved. I would think that they
    >would have been able to determine which neighbor it might be. What
    >do you think?
    >

    Make sure your router is secure.
    If you are still worried someone has access to your connection then
    try a scan. This stuff is free and should show all connections to your
    router
    http://www.radmin.com/products/utilities/ipscanner.php
     
    Alfred, Aug 19, 2007
    #29
  10. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Mike Easter Guest

    Luke O'Malley wrote:

    > Thank you for such a thorough and thoughtful reply.


    Get a good look, because I'm getting ready to killfile your posts so
    that you will become invisible. The way you are still posting is
    completely unacceptable. I asked you to stop it but you ignored that
    request. If you post that way anymore, you won't be getting any replies
    from me, and probably a lot of other people will ignore you as well, if
    they aren't already.

    > I don't usually post questions with this reader. I was totally

    unaware of what other people were seeing.

    After you were informed, you should have immediately ceased, but you
    didn't.

    > I did find a setting that let me eliminate headers, but someone

    suggested a bunch more that could
    not find.

    Then why did you continue to post like that?

    > I suppose I should use Outlook Express for questions.


    If OE is the only newsreader you know how to use correctly, then that's
    the one you should use.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Aug 19, 2007
    #30
  11. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Mr. Arnold Guest

    I'll still help. It's not that big of a deal. :)
     
    Mr. Arnold, Aug 19, 2007
    #31
  12. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    WhzzKdd Guest

    "Luke O'Malley" <> wrote in message
    news:XCXxi.351$...
    > From: "WhzzKdd" <frack_this@email_is.invalid>
    >
    > Why don't you just lock down your connection and be done with it?
    >
    >
    > Thank you for the suggestion. That is what I am trying to do, but I
    > don't know how.
    >


    RTFM
     
    WhzzKdd, Aug 19, 2007
    #32
  13. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2007-08-19, Luke O'Malley <> wrote:

    [...]
    >
    > Mike,
    >
    > Thank you for such a thorough and thoughtful reply. I don't usually
    > post questions with this reader. I was totally unaware of what
    > other people were seeing. I did find a setting that let me
    > eliminate headers, but someone suggested a bunch more that could
    > not find. I suppose I should use Outlook Express for questions.
    >
    > Goodwill,
    > Luke


    I just found this, which might interest you (as might the whole site,
    which claims to be run by one of the people once involved in Procomm
    Plus) :-

    If you use Procomm's mail client or newsreader, you may experience a
    case where the database becomes corrupted. [...] Due to the likely
    possibility that your database could become corrupted, I do not
    recommend using the Procomm Plus newsreader or mail client.

    <http://www.aspectscripting.com/procomm.shtml>

    There are plenty of excellent news-readers freely available for most
    32-bit varieties of Windows; see the newsgroup news.software.readers and
    <http://www.newsreaders.com/>.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, Aug 19, 2007
    #33
  14. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    why? Guest

    On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:29:58 GMT, Luke O'Malley wrote:

    Please please please disable the header posting and use something that
    quotes correctly.

    And learn to snip, you reposted the 84 lines + new headers making 139
    lines and all you really added at the end was 1 line which was -

    "Thank you , this is a treasure of info" with 4 blank lines. BTW YW.

    >Path:

    <snip>
    >
    >On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 13:26:55 GMT, Luke O'Malley wrote:
    >
    >>Hi

    >
    >Your replies are hard to follow, your nice (I do remember PCP) app is
    >adding the msg headers and not quoting correctly and wrecking the
    >line
    >wrap.
    >
    >>Perhaps you can help. I have three computers and they are attached
    >>to a router. Do they all have the same IP address? If someone
    >>hooked onto my wireless system would they have the same IP address?

    >
    >I think it's (thread) still at the, you are asking about stoping
    >somone
    >using the wireless connection.
    >
    >A couple of links reposted in 24HSHD every so often,
    >http://netsecurity.about.com/cs/wireless/a/aa112203_2.htm
    >http://compnetworking.about.com/od/wirelesssecurity/tp/wifisecurity.ht
    >m
    >
    >Most wireless routers should allow you to enter the MAC address (1)
    >http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/M/MAC.html
    >of systems to allow, with a check box deny all others.
    >
    >You (generally) find the MAC address on a WIndows OS PC from the


    <snip>

    >>Thanks in advance
    >>
    >>Luke
    >>

    >
    >Me
    >
    >
    >Thank you , this is a treasure of info


    Me
     
    why?, Aug 19, 2007
    #34
  15. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    nobody > Guest

    Stop posting headers, Luke! [IP Address Questions]

    I'm intentionally top-posting to get your attention.

    There's only 3 reasons to post headers of a message being replied to.

    1) It's spam.

    2) There's some question as to a poster's identity.

    3) there's some problem with posting.

    None of the above apply in your case. Why do it? Is it a default in
    Procomm Plus ?



    Path:
    news3.newsguy.com!extra.newsguy.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!130.81.64.211.MISMATCH!cycny01.gnilink.net!hwmnpeer01.lga!news.highwinds-media.com!hw-filter.lga!newsfe12.lga.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
    Newsgroups: 24hoursupport.helpdesk
    Subject: Re: IP Address Questions
    From: Luke O'Malley <>
    References: <zsCxi.27$>
    <>
    Organization: The One-Man Big-Band
    X-Newsreader: Procomm Plus
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
    Boundary=">>>>>>> Next Section <<<<<<<"
    Lines: 139
    Message-ID: <qBXxi.349$>
    Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:29:58 GMT
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.80.251.169
    X-Complaints-To:
    X-Trace: newsfe12.lga 1187530198 67.80.251.169 (Sun, 19 Aug 2007
    06:29:58 MST)
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 06:29:58 MST
    Xref: news3.newsguy.com 24hoursupport.helpdesk:1617611
    X-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:29:59 EDT (beE1)
     
    nobody >, Aug 19, 2007
    #35
  16. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    inc Guest

    Mike Easter wrote in 24hoursupport.helpdesk:

    > inc wrote:
    >> I've never seen this information put in such a simple, understandable
    >> way.
    >>
    >> Thank you.

    >
    > YW. I'm generally not very succinct or concise, but tend to be rambling
    > and wordy because it is quicker and easier for me that way. It takes me
    > a lot longer to try use fewer words than more.
    >


    I've a lot of relatives who are installing routers, probably because laptops
    have become so affordable. I've tried to explain IP, WAN, DHCP, NAT to them,
    and I always get that 'blank' look.

    Now I'm just going to print out your post and say "read this".

    ;)

    So thanks again.

    inc
     
    inc, Aug 20, 2007
    #36
  17. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Mike Easter Guest

    inc wrote:

    > I've a lot of relatives who are installing routers, probably because
    > laptops have become so affordable. I've tried to explain IP, WAN,
    > DHCP, NAT to them, and I always get that 'blank' look.


    Most of the time you start getting that blank look as soon as you start
    talking about the IP address, so when you get that, it is time to go to
    a more primitive level, like name, address, telephone number and
    telephone books.

    That's one of the advantages of explaining something in person rather
    than email or newsgroups -- you get some immediate feedback consisting
    of glassy eyes.

    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Aug 20, 2007
    #37
  18. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    TJ Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in
    news::

    > inc wrote:
    >
    >> I've a lot of relatives who are installing routers, probably because
    >> laptops have become so affordable. I've tried to explain IP, WAN,
    >> DHCP, NAT to them, and I always get that 'blank' look.

    >
    > Most of the time you start getting that blank look as soon as you start
    > talking about the IP address, so when you get that, it is time to go to
    > a more primitive level, like name, address, telephone number and
    > telephone books.
    >
    > That's one of the advantages of explaining something in person rather
    > than email or newsgroups -- you get some immediate feedback consisting
    > of glassy eyes.


    You're too nice. I never feel as though I've waxed techie enough until the
    eyes glaze over, the mouth falls open, and you can see just a hint of
    drool.
     
    TJ, Aug 20, 2007
    #38
  19. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    Mike Easter Guest

    TJ wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"
    >> inc wrote:


    >>>I've tried to explain IP, WAN,
    >>> DHCP, NAT to them, and I always get that 'blank' look.

    >>
    >> Most of the time you start getting that blank look as soon as you
    >> start talking about the IP address, so when you get that, it is time
    >> to go to a more primitive level, like name, address, telephone
    >> number and telephone books.


    > You're too nice. I never feel as though I've waxed techie enough
    > until the eyes glaze over, the mouth falls open, and you can see just
    > a hint of drool.


    Heh. You're taking the cheap shot -- that is, it is 'easy' to explain
    something which is complicated, especially if you get to just ramble on
    during the drool.

    The hard part, the part that is like a 'puzzle' to be solved is to
    figure out what they understand and then slip that 'key' into the lock
    that has their mind closed.

    The other day I explained something about Outlook Express mail problems
    to a friend by alluding to OE's schizophrenic condition as regards
    compacting and how it had a dysfunctional relationship with the
    mailserver. He said that he got it and so he must be becoming a geek.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Aug 20, 2007
    #39
  20. =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=

    TJ Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in
    news::

    > TJ wrote:
    >> "Mike Easter"
    >>> inc wrote:

    >
    >>>>I've tried to explain IP, WAN,
    >>>> DHCP, NAT to them, and I always get that 'blank' look.
    >>>
    >>> Most of the time you start getting that blank look as soon as you
    >>> start talking about the IP address, so when you get that, it is time
    >>> to go to a more primitive level, like name, address, telephone
    >>> number and telephone books.

    >
    >> You're too nice. I never feel as though I've waxed techie enough
    >> until the eyes glaze over, the mouth falls open, and you can see just
    >> a hint of drool.

    >
    > Heh. You're taking the cheap shot -- that is, it is 'easy' to explain
    > something which is complicated, especially if you get to just ramble on
    > during the drool.
    >
    > The hard part, the part that is like a 'puzzle' to be solved is to
    > figure out what they understand and then slip that 'key' into the lock
    > that has their mind closed.
    >
    > The other day I explained something about Outlook Express mail problems
    > to a friend by alluding to OE's schizophrenic condition as regards
    > compacting and how it had a dysfunctional relationship with the
    > mailserver. He said that he got it and so he must be becoming a geek.


    ROFL!
     
    TJ, Aug 20, 2007
    #40
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