Internet privacy

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by David McLoughlin, Dec 1, 2003.

  1. Hi

    I am a journalist who's been asked to write a story on how the Net is
    putting strain on privacy laws.

    I've been on here since 1995 so I know how almost everything that's
    ever posted is archived. Google is also a huge archive of our lives.

    I'm just wondering, how worried are people by this?

    What kind of information sharing is going on in NZ between companies
    or government departments and how does this affect people?

    Please email me at with any
    welcomed suggestions/comments.

    Sheesh now I know I will get spammed here as the bots will get my last
    secret email addy.


    david mcloughlin
    the Dominion Post
    Wellington
     
    David McLoughlin, Dec 1, 2003
    #1
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  2. David McLoughlin

    T.N.O. Guest

    David McLoughlin wrote:
    > Please email me at with any
    > welcomed suggestions/comments.


    If your gonna post here asking for help with your job, atleast have the
    decency to come back and check our replies...

    Personally, I don't really care, everything I have done in the usenet is
    who I am... if anything, I find it handy that it is kept as an archive,
    that way I can look back over the years, and see what I was like,
    there'll be no, "when I was your age son" to my kids, as they'll be able
    to check it out themselves... no secrets, no lies, just me as I was at
    the time, young, arogant, and full of shit.

    Privacy? Do we have that in the real world anyway? When online Im not
    tracked anymore than I am in the real world, infact, I feel that it
    would probably be the opposite(real world traces more)

    Good luck with the article.
     
    T.N.O., Dec 1, 2003
    #2
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  3. David McLoughlin

    Adam R Guest

    "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > David McLoughlin wrote:
    > > Please email me at with any
    > > welcomed suggestions/comments.

    >
    > Personally, I don't really care, everything I have done in the usenet is
    > who I am... if anything, I find it handy that it is kept as an archive,
    > that way I can look back over the years, and see what I was like,
    > there'll be no, "when I was your age son" to my kids, as they'll be able
    > to check it out themselves... no secrets, no lies, just me as I was at
    > the time, young, arogant, and full of shit.


    Until something you've said on Usenet is taken out of context or you are
    partially quoted so as to convey a different impression to that which you
    intended.
     
    Adam R, Dec 1, 2003
    #3
  4. David McLoughlin

    cowboyz Guest

    "Adam R" <> wrote in message
    news:bJPyb.10821$...
    >
    > "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > David McLoughlin wrote:
    > > > Please email me at with any
    > > > welcomed suggestions/comments.

    > >
    > > Personally, I don't really care, everything I have done in the usenet is
    > > who I am... if anything, I find it handy that it is kept as an archive,
    > > that way I can look back over the years, and see what I was like,
    > > there'll be no, "when I was your age son" to my kids, as they'll be able
    > > to check it out themselves... no secrets, no lies, just me as I was at
    > > the time, young, arogant, and full of shit.

    >
    > Until something you've said on Usenet is taken out of context or you are
    > partially quoted so as to convey a different impression to that which you
    > intended.
    >
    >


    Out of context? You mean when someone implys that he knows what hes talking
    about ;-)
     
    cowboyz, Dec 1, 2003
    #4
  5. David McLoughlin

    Warwick Guest

    On 1 Dec 2003 14:12:32 -0800, (David
    McLoughlin) wrote:

    >Hi
    >
    >I am a journalist who's been asked to write a story on how the Net is
    >putting strain on privacy laws.
    >
    >I've been on here since 1995 so I know how almost everything that's
    >ever posted is archived. Google is also a huge archive of our lives.
    >
    >I'm just wondering, how worried are people by this?
    >
    >What kind of information sharing is going on in NZ between companies
    >or government departments and how does this affect people?
    >
    >Please email me at with any
    >welcomed suggestions/comments.
    >
    >Sheesh now I know I will get spammed here as the bots will get my last
    >secret email addy.
    >
    >
    >david mcloughlin
    >the Dominion Post
    >Wellington



    Nothing to do with the internet but .. maybe find out whats going on
    with FlyBuys?

    They have got to be data mining puchase historys and selling that info
    to direct marketing companies. How much for, and how frequently would
    be interesting.

    I say they have to be doing this because otherwise I can't see any
    financial incentive for running such a scheme.

    cheers
    Warwick
     
    Warwick, Dec 1, 2003
    #5
  6. David McLoughlin

    ~misfit~ Guest

    T.N.O. wrote:
    > David McLoughlin wrote:
    >> Please email me at with any
    >> welcomed suggestions/comments.


    For someone who's been "on here" since 1995 you don't know much about
    munging addys.

    > If your gonna post here asking for help with your job, atleast have
    > the decency to come back and check our replies...


    That's normally my response too Dave but, being a journo he is probably used
    to people speaking to him 'in confidence'.

    > Personally, I don't really care, everything I have done in the usenet
    > is who I am... if anything, I find it handy that it is kept as an
    > archive, that way I can look back over the years, and see what I was
    > like,


    Me too, although I think that maybe one or two things may come back and bite
    me in the arse one day. I don't worry about it though, what I post on usenet
    is more of the 'real me' than most people that know me personally ever get
    to know. I am who I am.

    > there'll be no, "when I was your age son" to my kids, as
    > they'll be able to check it out themselves... no secrets, no lies,
    > just me as I was at the time, young, arogant, and full of shit.


    You? ;-)

    > Privacy? Do we have that in the real world anyway? When online Im not
    > tracked anymore than I am in the real world, infact, I feel that it
    > would probably be the opposite(real world traces more)


    I just applied for one of those Foodtown/Onecards for use at Foodtown (Duh!)
    or Woolworths. I used to have a Foodtown card when I lived near a Foodtown
    but ripped it up one day, didn't like the idea of an organisation knowing
    (most) everything I buy. Unfortunately I'm so impoverished these days and
    the local Woolworths has 'card-holder only' specials that I have to
    compromise my desire for privacy. I try to never actually EFTPOS things, I
    get cash out. Fly-buys? No way (Not that I ever spend enough to get a
    reward). You're right, the 'real world' tries to track you just as much as
    this medium does.

    > Good luck with the article.


    I agree, although a comparison with 'real world' tracking techniques would
    be interesting.

    (I've actually forwarded this to Mr. Mcloughlin. David, I suggest you check
    out nz.comp for any other replies to your post)
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 1, 2003
    #6
  7. David McLoughlin

    T.N.O. Guest

    Adam R wrote:
    > Until something you've said on Usenet is taken out of context or you are
    > partially quoted so as to convey a different impression to that which you
    > intended.


    But all(or probably 90%)of what I have said, is in reply to things that
    occured at the time, all(well 90%) of which is archived along with my
    posts...
     
    T.N.O., Dec 1, 2003
    #7
  8. David McLoughlin

    T.N.O. Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > (I've actually forwarded this to Mr. Mcloughlin. David, I suggest you check
    > out nz.comp for any other replies to your post)


    Have got an email reply stating that he lurks here.
     
    T.N.O., Dec 1, 2003
    #8
  9. In article <bJPyb.10821$>, "Adam R" <> wrote:
    >"T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> David McLoughlin wrote:
    >> > Please email me at with any
    >> > welcomed suggestions/comments.

    >>
    >> Personally, I don't really care, everything I have done in the usenet is
    >> who I am... if anything, I find it handy that it is kept as an archive,
    >> that way I can look back over the years, and see what I was like,
    >> there'll be no, "when I was your age son" to my kids, as they'll be able
    >> to check it out themselves... no secrets, no lies, just me as I was at
    >> the time, young, arogant, and full of shit.

    >
    >Until something you've said on Usenet is taken out of context or you are
    >partially quoted so as to convey a different impression to that which you
    >intended.


    ... and does this actually affect anyone ? ... or offend them ? It
    would concern me very little ... I'm just wondering if anyone else
    would really care if this happened to them ?

    I still reckon opt out lists and spam are the biggies for privacy.

    Bruce


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to
    think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone´s fault.
    If it was Us, what did that make Me ? After all, I´m one of Us. I must be.
    I´ve certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No-one ever thinks
    of themselves as one of Them. We´re always one of Us. It´s Them that do
    the bad things. <=> Terry Pratchett. Jingo.
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Dec 2, 2003
    #9
  10. David McLoughlin

    Peter Guest

    On 1 Dec 2003 14:12:32 -0800, (David
    McLoughlin) wrote:

    >Hi
    >
    >I am a journalist who's been asked to write a story on how the Net is
    >putting strain on privacy laws.
    >

    Hi David

    If you were the journo who included this in a nz.politics posting some
    time back:

    Quote
    However next time I'm in town I will certainly cruise down your street
    looking for houses with a green Commer van in the garage.
    Unquote

    then I think it is quite justifiable for this sort of thing to be
    preserved via Google. If you were the one who wrote this, then thank
    your lucky stars that you did not have your backside dragged through
    the courts for defamation.

    I there is another David McLaughlin who said this, then my apologies.
     
    Peter, Dec 2, 2003
    #10
  11. David McLoughlin

    ~misfit~ Guest

    T.N.O. wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> (I've actually forwarded this to Mr. Mcloughlin. David, I suggest
    >> you check out nz.comp for any other replies to your post)

    >
    > Have got an email reply stating that he lurks here.


    Ok, cool.
    --
    ~misfit~
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 2, 2003
    #11
  12. David McLoughlin

    Brendan Guest

    On 1 Dec 2003 14:12:32 -0800, (David
    McLoughlin) wrote:

    >I am a journalist who's been asked to write a story on how the Net is
    >putting strain on privacy laws.


    Perhaps you should interview yourself David, seeing as you scoured
    electoral roles for information about me and then illegally
    re-organised it to provide information it did not normally provide,
    and THEN published it to the world.

    All so you could win some stupid political debate you were otherwise
    losing.

    You could do a 'meet an internet privacy abuser' side panel.

    Speaking of Google, I suspect it may have a permanent record of your
    sorry conduct too.

    --

    ....Brendan

    Under capitalism, man exploits man.
    Under communism, it's just the opposite.
    J.K.Galbraith

    Note: All comments are copyright 2003, and are opinion only where not otherwise stated, and always 'to the best of my reccollection'.
     
    Brendan, Dec 2, 2003
    #12
  13. Adam R wrote:

    > "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    > news:...


    >>Personally, I don't really care, everything I have done in the usenet is
    >>who I am... if anything, I find it handy that it is kept as an archive,
    >>that way I can look back over the years, and see what I was like,
    >>there'll be no, "when I was your age son" to my kids, as they'll be able
    >>to check it out themselves... no secrets, no lies, just me as I was at
    >>the time, young, arogant, and full of shit.



    > Until something you've said on Usenet is taken out of context or you are
    > partially quoted so as to convey a different impression to that which you
    > intended.


    Heh its only usenet though. Just a bunch of crazed loonies, and since
    its not authenticated its possible to deny that you posted something
    later if trouble really pops up.

    Have there been many incidents of people actually taking a usenet post
    too seriously thus resulting in trouble for the poster?

    Regarding privacy if I want to keep something a secret I wont post it on
    usenet, I will however use GPG to protect and authenticate my emails
    when necessary.

    Was the OP asking about privacy specifically regarding usenet (which is
    a non-issue as usenet is fundamentally an un-private medium) or with net
    use in general?
     
    Kurt Häusler, Dec 2, 2003
    #13
  14. David McLoughlin

    Brendan Guest

    On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 00:17:44 GMT, (Peter)
    wrote:

    >If you were the journo who included this in a nz.politics posting some
    >time back:
    >
    >Quote
    >However next time I'm in town I will certainly cruise down your street
    >looking for houses with a green Commer van in the garage.
    >Unquote
    >
    >then I think it is quite justifiable for this sort of thing to be
    >preserved via Google. If you were the one who wrote this, then thank
    >your lucky stars that you did not have your backside dragged through
    >the courts for defamation.
    >
    >I there is another David McLaughlin who said this, then my apologies.


    No, its him.

    I find it ironic in the extreeme that such a privacy breeching person
    is granted the responsibility of writing about the dangers of privacy
    invasion on the internet...

    Why didn't I sue him ? Well, I didn't have the money.

    --

    ....Brendan

    Under capitalism, man exploits man.
    Under communism, it's just the opposite.
    J.K.Galbraith

    Note: All comments are copyright 2003, and are opinion only where not otherwise stated, and always 'to the best of my reccollection'.
     
    Brendan, Dec 2, 2003
    #14
  15. TNO wrote:


    >
    > If your gonna post here asking for help with your job, atleast have the
    > decency to come back and check our replies...


    Of course I do, I know the protocol. I have been on these newsgroups
    since 1995.

    It's just that when I post from work, I have to use Google, as there
    are no proper newsreaders here, so the replies take hours to come
    through.

    Thank you to all who replied both here and by email.

    Glad to see you're still as ferocious as ever, Brendan.

    dmcl
     
    David McLoughlin, Dec 2, 2003
    #15
  16. David McLoughlin

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On 1 Dec 2003 14:12:32 -0800, (David
    > McLoughlin) wrote:
    >
    > >Hi
    > >
    > >I am a journalist who's been asked to write a story on how the Net is
    > >putting strain on privacy laws.
    > >
    > >I've been on here since 1995 so I know how almost everything that's
    > >ever posted is archived. Google is also a huge archive of our lives.
    > >
    > >I'm just wondering, how worried are people by this?
    > >
    > >What kind of information sharing is going on in NZ between companies
    > >or government departments and how does this affect people?
    > >
    > >Please email me at with any
    > >welcomed suggestions/comments.
    > >
    > >Sheesh now I know I will get spammed here as the bots will get my last
    > >secret email addy.
    > >
    > >
    > >david mcloughlin
    > >the Dominion Post
    > >Wellington

    >
    >
    > Nothing to do with the internet but .. maybe find out whats going on
    > with FlyBuys?
    >
    > They have got to be data mining puchase historys and selling that info
    > to direct marketing companies. How much for, and how frequently would
    > be interesting.


    Then there's NZ post selling address redirections to marketing companies
     
    Mainlander, Dec 3, 2003
    #16
  17. David McLoughlin

    Brendan Guest

    On 2 Dec 2003 14:08:00 -0800, (David
    McLoughlin) wrote:

    >Glad to see you're still as ferocious as ever, Brendan.


    What you did was nastyness, David.

    --

    ....Brendan

    Under capitalism, man exploits man.
    Under communism, it's just the opposite.
    J.K.Galbraith

    Note: All comments are copyright 2003, and are opinion only where not otherwise stated, and always 'to the best of my reccollection'.
     
    Brendan, Dec 3, 2003
    #17
  18. David McLoughlin

    Kerry Guest

    On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 19:31:25 +1300, Brendan <corum.usenet@myrealbox
    (dot com)> wrote:

    >On 2 Dec 2003 14:08:00 -0800, (David
    >McLoughlin) wrote:
    >
    >>Glad to see you're still as ferocious as ever, Brendan.

    >
    >What you did was nastyness, David.
    >


    What was nasty?


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
    Teach him to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Kerry, Dec 3, 2003
    #18
  19. David McLoughlin

    Barry Lennox Guest

    On 1 Dec 2003 14:12:32 -0800, (David
    McLoughlin) wrote:

    >Hi
    >
    >I am a journalist who's been asked to write a story on how the Net is
    >putting strain on privacy laws.



    Who was the industry guru (maybe Scott McNeally?)who said a few years
    at Comdex,or some similar forum: "You have no privacy-get over it" And
    then suddenly became extremely concerned and agitated about "privacy"
    when somebody anonymously posted a private telephone number and other
    details on the net.

    Something reeks of hypocrisy here!!
     
    Barry Lennox, Dec 3, 2003
    #19
  20. David McLoughlin

    Brendan Guest

    On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 10:59:05 GMT, conz
    (Kerry) wrote:

    >>>Glad to see you're still as ferocious as ever, Brendan.

    >>
    >>What you did was nastyness, David.

    >
    >What was nasty?


    That is a longish story. In summary:

    • David got into a political debate with me; as I recall, it was
    something to do with welfare.

    • David decided that his options for winning the debate had diminished
    to the point where he felt character assasination was his only option.

    • David then went over the line:
    a. illegally re-ordered information from the electoral role
    (yes, doing that is illegal) to show who I lived with and what
    their occupations were.
    b. published this out dated information to the world hoping
    this would 'scare me off' or embarras or something.

    • It is possible David further broke the law by having an electronic
    database of the electoral role and using that; the alternative is many
    hours of scouring every name in the north otago role. He professes the
    latter; I doubted his honesty.

    • This would normally have been a matter for the Courts but I lacked
    the money to pursue that avenue - which is probably why David thought
    he could get away with it.

    • The episode marked the 'falling from grace' of the award winning
    David Mcloughlin, as even prior supporters distanced themselves.

    • David was asked to apologise, but refused to. I got a sense that he
    later regretted his actions but that may have been my wishful
    thinking.

    I sincerly hope that David has reformed his ways and regrets his
    disgraceful conduct. But as I have received no apology I beleive he
    still thinks he was somehow correct after all.

    The record of the episode remains in Usenet archives, as does the
    conspicuous absence of his apology, for any one to find.

    To make clear: David was not content with his character assaination of
    myself, but also dragged my family into his little beat up. People who
    had never said a harsh word about him.

    --

    ....Brendan

    Under capitalism, man exploits man.
    Under communism, it's just the opposite.
    J.K.Galbraith

    Note: All comments are copyright 2003, and are opinion only where not otherwise stated, and always 'to the best of my reccollection'.
     
    Brendan, Dec 3, 2003
    #20
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