Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Mutley, May 29, 2005.

  1. Mutley

    Mutley Guest

    Friday 27 May 2005 - 11:02


    Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.

    Guess there will be two types of Intel mother boards made now. One
    for the USA and one for the free world..

    AMD here we come..
     
    Mutley, May 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. Mutley

    Peter Guest

    Mutley wrote:
    > Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    > copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    > Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    > dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.


    http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121027,00.asp

    and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use Micro$oft
    software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at last.


    Peter
     
    Peter, May 29, 2005
    #2
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  3. Mutley

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:23:37 +1200, Peter wrote:

    >> Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    >> copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    >> Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    >> dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.

    >
    > http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121027,00.asp
    >
    > and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use
    > Micro$oft software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at
    > last.


    Who in their right mind would pay money for hardware and proprietary
    closed-source software that were deliberately designed to prevent them
    from doing whatever they want to do with their computer?

    What better reason do you need for walking away from Micro$oft and Intel?


    Bling Bling

    --
    "Linux and MySQL are going to keep chipping away at Micro$ofts' install base
    and it is terrified. Why else would they keep spouting on about how awful
    Linux is? If it was no threat they would just ignore and move on. I think the
    same goes for a huge number of windows admins, they see a steep learning curve
    for a whole new skill set on the horizon and are struggling to avoid it. Linux
    and open source are the future, get used to it."
     
    Bling-Bling, May 29, 2005
    #3
  4. On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:23:37 +1200, someone purporting to be Peter doth
    scrawl:

    > Mutley wrote:

    *SNIP*
    > and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use Micro$oft
    > software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at last.
    >

    For as long as the chips will execute OSS code, MS will be unable to force
    their vision on the world.
    I suspect that AMD won't make the same mistake, if only so that they can
    cash in on the backlash from the OSS community. They already have the
    technical superiority in their dual-core solution, this just gives them
    extra leverage to take business from Intel.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, May 29, 2005
    #4
  5. Mutley

    H.O.G Guest

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:33:57 +1200, Matthew Poole <>
    spoke these fine words:

    >On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:23:37 +1200, someone purporting to be Peter doth
    >scrawl:
    >
    >> Mutley wrote:

    >*SNIP*
    >> and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use Micro$oft
    >> software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at last.
    >>

    >For as long as the chips will execute OSS code, MS will be unable to force
    >their vision on the world.
    >I suspect that AMD won't make the same mistake, if only so that they can
    >cash in on the backlash from the OSS community. They already have the
    >technical superiority in their dual-core solution, this just gives them
    >extra leverage to take business from Intel.


    Do you really honestly believe that Intel would have written this crap
    into the processors/chipsets if Microsoft hadn't already provided a
    guarantee from AMD that they would do likewise?

    We are entering a brave new world of computing...
     
    H.O.G, May 29, 2005
    #5
  6. Mutley

    Tony Guest

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:05:37 +1200, H.O.G <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:33:57 +1200, Matthew Poole <>
    >spoke these fine words:
    >
    >>On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:23:37 +1200, someone purporting to be Peter doth
    >>scrawl:
    >>
    >>> Mutley wrote:

    >>*SNIP*
    >>> and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use Micro$oft
    >>> software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at last.
    >>>

    >>For as long as the chips will execute OSS code, MS will be unable to force
    >>their vision on the world.
    >>I suspect that AMD won't make the same mistake, if only so that they can
    >>cash in on the backlash from the OSS community. They already have the
    >>technical superiority in their dual-core solution, this just gives them
    >>extra leverage to take business from Intel.

    >
    >Do you really honestly believe that Intel would have written this crap
    >into the processors/chipsets if Microsoft hadn't already provided a
    >guarantee from AMD that they would do likewise?
    >
    >We are entering a brave new world of computing...




    No a Brave new world of Total control, like 1984..?

    Your Freedom is now totally gone.
     
    Tony, May 29, 2005
    #6
  7. On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:05:37 +1200, someone purporting to be H.O.G doth
    scrawl:

    > On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:33:57 +1200, Matthew Poole <>
    > spoke these fine words:
    >

    *SNIP*
    > Do you really honestly believe that Intel would have written this crap
    > into the processors/chipsets if Microsoft hadn't already provided a
    > guarantee from AMD that they would do likewise?
    >

    Actually, yes, I do. Intel quite likely think that AMD's membership of
    the TPCA alliance is sufficient.
    People won't worry about DRM until such time as it breaks things. People
    don't like "protected" CDs because they lose the freedom to use them as
    they wish, and that backlash has kept them out of a number of stores -
    they're almost impossible to find in NZ, for example, just like you can't
    find region-encoded DVD players very easily.
    The consumer rules all. If consumers give something the thumbs-down, it
    will die, regardless of what the manufacturers might think. If nobody
    will buy it, it's too expensive to produce.

    Also, the US is not the world's only market. China is big, and growing
    fast enough that they're projected to overtake the US by the end of next
    year as the largest PC market on the planet. If the Chinese Government
    decrees that DRM chips are not to be sold, that'll be the end of DRM -
    producing two types of chips is too expensive, especially if other
    countries follow China's lead and say "you're already making them, so
    don't tell us it can't be done."

    DRM is a producer initiative. Consumers have said little because few
    understand the implications. Once they start to discover that it breaks
    things, they'll take notice, and it is a very foolish manufacturer who
    ignores their consumers - CPU IDs, anyone? How long did they last before
    they were disabled by default? They weren't even particularly dangerous,
    either, merely perceived negatively.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, May 29, 2005
    #7
  8. Mutley

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Bling-Bling wrote:
    > On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:23:37 +1200, Peter wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    >>>copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    >>>Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    >>>dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.

    >>
    >>
    >>http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121027,00.asp
    >>
    >>and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use
    >>Micro$oft software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at
    >>last.

    >
    >
    > Who in their right mind would pay money for hardware and proprietary
    > closed-source software that were deliberately designed to prevent them
    > from doing whatever they want to do with their computer?
    >
    > What better reason do you need for walking away from Micro$oft and Intel?
    >

    Realistically, apart from a few people who read newsgroups and Slashdot,
    *most people won't care*. People will spend a lot of money on a
    cellphone and they never consider DRM issues, or even how the pricing
    model works (ie, a subscription subsidises the initial cost of the
    phone). MS Office activation seems to have settled into being accepted
    by the mainstream, and in fact is generally preferred despite there
    being perfectly good alternatives, why should DRM be any different?

    Suppose this DRM allows MS to tie a "lite" windows for home use tightly
    into the hardware they sell it on and control the installation of any
    other software. Most people just see they are getting a reliable, secure
    and very cheap computer from a good and trusted brand name, and they'll
    buy them. If subsidised by some kind of subscription model, they'll even
    change them as often as they change cellphones. They'll sell by the
    millions. If MS and Intel can get people away from being focussed on
    processor speed, they'll even be able to downgrade hardware without
    anyone noticing, and make hardware even cheaper.

    How many people know what speed processor their cellphone, Xbox or Ipod
    has in it? PCs will become just the same. Even now, people only have a
    vague idea that bigger numbers are better.

    PCs will become an (even worse) environmental disaster; not because of
    the hardware, but because of the software.
     
    -=rjh=-, May 29, 2005
    #8
  9. Mutley

    Richard Guest

    -=rjh=- wrote:

    > Suppose this DRM allows MS to tie a "lite" windows for home use tightly
    > into the hardware they sell it on and control the installation of any
    > other software. Most people just see they are getting a reliable, secure
    > and very cheap computer from a good and trusted brand name, and they'll
    > buy them. If subsidised by some kind of subscription model, they'll even
    > change them as often as they change cellphones. They'll sell by the
    > millions. If MS and Intel can get people away from being focussed on
    > processor speed, they'll even be able to downgrade hardware without
    > anyone noticing, and make hardware even cheaper.


    Cellphones havent being subsidised for a very long time. If anything, the local
    importers are making a killing on the markup on them, Look at the razr - $667 at
    parallel improted, and a grand from a vodafone shop
     
    Richard, May 29, 2005
    #9
  10. In article <pan.2005.05.29.05.44.33.829462@TRACKER>, Bling-Bling <> wrote:
    >On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:23:37 +1200, Peter wrote:
    >
    >>> Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    >>> copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    >>> Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    >>> dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.

    >>
    >> http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121027,00.asp
    >>
    >> and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use
    >> Micro$oft software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at
    >> last.

    >
    >Who in their right mind would pay money for hardware and proprietary
    >closed-source software that were deliberately designed to prevent them
    >from doing whatever they want to do with their computer?


    Those that fail to think ? :)

    Bruce


    -------------------------------------
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
    - George Bernard Shaw
    Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
    - Ambrose Bierce

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 29, 2005
    #10
  11. In article <>, Richard <> wrote:
    >-=rjh=- wrote:
    >
    >> Suppose this DRM allows MS to tie a "lite" windows for home use tightly
    >> into the hardware they sell it on and control the installation of any
    >> other software. Most people just see they are getting a reliable, secure
    >> and very cheap computer from a good and trusted brand name, and they'll
    >> buy them. If subsidised by some kind of subscription model, they'll even
    >> change them as often as they change cellphones. They'll sell by the
    >> millions. If MS and Intel can get people away from being focussed on
    >> processor speed, they'll even be able to downgrade hardware without
    >> anyone noticing, and make hardware even cheaper.

    >
    >Cellphones havent being subsidised for a very long time. If anything, the local
    >
    >importers are making a killing on the markup on them, Look at the razr - $667
    > at
    >parallel improted, and a grand from a vodafone shop


    ... and $50 or free next year ? :)


    Bruce


    -------------------------------------
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
    - George Bernard Shaw
    Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
    - Ambrose Bierce

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 29, 2005
    #11
  12. In article <>, Tony <> wrote:
    (snip)
    >No a Brave new world of Total control, like 1984..?
    >
    >Your Freedom is now totally gone.


    No. Yours might be ... mine is not :)

    Bruce


    -------------------------------------
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.
    - George Bernard Shaw
    Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.
    - Ambrose Bierce

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, May 29, 2005
    #12
  13. Mutley

    thing Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > Mutley wrote:
    >
    >>Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    >>copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    >>Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    >>dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.

    >
    >
    > http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121027,00.asp
    >
    > and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use Micro$oft
    > software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at last.
    >
    >
    > Peter
    >


    Maybe, or maybe not, at present Windows is not written/optimised for
    Itanium, only Linux is, so in effect virtually all Itanium's sold have
    Linux OSes, Intel desperately needs linux and OSS to keep their crappy
    "enterprise" chip alive.

    Now take a huge slice of the server market, ie around 30% is Linux
    Server, doing hardware CPUs that wont run OSS means you are handing 30%
    + to AMD and writing off Itanium, I dont think Intel can be that dumb.

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing, May 29, 2005
    #13
  14. Mutley

    thing Guest

    Matthew Poole wrote:
    > On Sun, 29 May 2005 19:05:37 +1200, someone purporting to be H.O.G doth
    > scrawl:
    >
    >
    >>On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:33:57 +1200, Matthew Poole <>
    >>spoke these fine words:
    >>

    >
    > *SNIP*
    >
    >>Do you really honestly believe that Intel would have written this crap
    >>into the processors/chipsets if Microsoft hadn't already provided a
    >>guarantee from AMD that they would do likewise?


    yes, but there are huge issues if they try and enforce a MS only OS. Its
    known as anti-comptetive and there are some nasty US laws (Sherman Act?)
    on this. While DRM might fly in the USA, any attempt to lock it into a
    MS only OS is going to cause serious legal issues for MS / Intel and
    AMD. Outside the USA it is just not going to happen IMHO.

    > Actually, yes, I do. Intel quite likely think that AMD's membership of
    > the TPCA alliance is sufficient.
    > People won't worry about DRM until such time as it breaks things. People
    > don't like "protected" CDs because they lose the freedom to use them as
    > they wish, and that backlash has kept them out of a number of stores -
    > they're almost impossible to find in NZ, for example, just like you can't
    > find region-encoded DVD players very easily.
    > The consumer rules all. If consumers give something the thumbs-down, it
    > will die, regardless of what the manufacturers might think. If nobody
    > will buy it, it's too expensive to produce.
    >
    > Also, the US is not the world's only market. China is big, and growing
    > fast enough that they're projected to overtake the US by the end of next
    > year as the largest PC market on the planet. If the Chinese Government
    > decrees that DRM chips are not to be sold, that'll be the end of DRM -
    > producing two types of chips is too expensive, especially if other
    > countries follow China's lead and say "you're already making them, so
    > don't tell us it can't be done."
    >
    > DRM is a producer initiative. Consumers have said little because few
    > understand the implications. Once they start to discover that it breaks
    > things, they'll take notice, and it is a very foolish manufacturer who
    > ignores their consumers - CPU IDs, anyone? How long did they last before
    > they were disabled by default? They weren't even particularly dangerous,
    > either, merely perceived negatively.
    >


    I agree, Asia alone (and then add Europe) will dwarf the US market,
    making CPUs that only run Windows might give Bill Gates wet dreams but
    any Asian/European Govn is going to have a screaming fit. The EU alone
    would take Intel and MS apart in court, let alone China.....Then add
    China wants to make its own CPUs and we have an independant source
    becides AMD and Intel.

    If things start to break and users find their applicatons no longer
    work, how long do you think it would be before consumers inthe USA alone
    would have a class action going?

    The world has marched on in 10 years, we now have the Internet, while US
    corps might like to think they can do what they want, what they want is
    beoing a by-play and of no importance....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing, May 29, 2005
    #14
  15. Mutley

    H.O.G Guest

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:38:13 +1200, thing <> spoke
    these fine words:

    >
    >Now take a huge slice of the server market, ie around 30% is Linux
    >Server, doing hardware CPUs that wont run OSS means you are handing 30%
    >+ to AMD and writing off Itanium, I dont think Intel can be that dumb.


    Whilst it would be great if 30% of the server market were Linux
    servers, that is simply not true.

    Or are you just looking at Web Servers? Remember that Web Servers only
    make up a small proportion of the actual server market.
     
    H.O.G, May 30, 2005
    #15
  16. Mutley

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:11:45 +1200, H.O.G wrote:

    > On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:38:13 +1200, thing <> spoke these
    > fine words:
    >
    >
    >>Now take a huge slice of the server market, ie around 30% is Linux
    >>Server, doing hardware CPUs that wont run OSS means you are handing 30% +
    >>to AMD and writing off Itanium, I dont think Intel can be that dumb.

    >
    > Whilst it would be great if 30% of the server market were Linux servers,
    > that is simply not true.
    >
    > Or are you just looking at Web Servers? Remember that Web Servers only
    > make up a small proportion of the actual server market.


    Yeah - then there are email servers (sendmail, postfix, etc), nntp
    servers, X-servers, database servers, and all manner of servers that are
    made with Open Source software - most of which are commonly implemented.


    Bling Bling

    --
    "Linux and MySQL are going to keep chipping away at Micro$ofts' install base
    and it is terrified. Why else would they keep spouting on about how awful
    Linux is? If it was no threat they would just ignore and move on. I think the
    same goes for a huge number of windows admins, they see a steep learning curve
    for a whole new skill set on the horizon and are struggling to avoid it. Linux
    and open source are the future, get used to it."
     
    Bling-Bling, May 30, 2005
    #16
  17. On Sun, 29 May 2005 15:03:11 +1200, Mutley
    <> wrote:

    >Friday 27 May 2005 - 11:02
    >
    >
    >Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    >copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    >Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    >dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.
    >
    >Guess there will be two types of Intel mother boards made now. One
    >for the USA and one for the free world..
    >
    >AMD here we come..


    How long before AMD adds it to its chips
     
    FreedomChooser, May 30, 2005
    #17
  18. On Sun, 29 May 2005 21:34:19 +1200, -=rjh=- <> wrote:

    >Bling-Bling wrote:
    >> On Sun, 29 May 2005 17:23:37 +1200, Peter wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Microsoft and the entertainment industry's holy grail of controlling
    >>>>copyright through the motherboard has moved a step closer with Intel
    >>>>Corp. now embedding digital rights management within in its latest
    >>>>dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,121027,00.asp
    >>>
    >>>and at the same time, it can be used to force everyone to only use
    >>>Micro$oft software - what a happy coincidence. Palladium is coming at
    >>>last.

    >>
    >>
    >> Who in their right mind would pay money for hardware and proprietary
    >> closed-source software that were deliberately designed to prevent them
    >> from doing whatever they want to do with their computer?
    >>
    >> What better reason do you need for walking away from Micro$oft and Intel?
    >>

    >Realistically, apart from a few people who read newsgroups and Slashdot,
    >*most people won't care*. People will spend a lot of money on a
    >cellphone and they never consider DRM issues, or even how the pricing
    >model works (ie, a subscription subsidises the initial cost of the
    >phone). MS Office activation seems to have settled into being accepted
    >by the mainstream, and in fact is generally preferred despite there
    >being perfectly good alternatives, why should DRM be any different?
    >
    >Suppose this DRM allows MS to tie a "lite" windows for home use tightly
    >into the hardware they sell it on and control the installation of any
    >other software. Most people just see they are getting a reliable, secure
    >and very cheap computer from a good and trusted brand name, and they'll
    >buy them. If subsidised by some kind of subscription model, they'll even
    >change them as often as they change cellphones. They'll sell by the
    >millions. If MS and Intel can get people away from being focussed on
    >processor speed, they'll even be able to downgrade hardware without
    >anyone noticing, and make hardware even cheaper.
    >
    >How many people know what speed processor their cellphone, Xbox or Ipod
    >has in it? PCs will become just the same. Even now, people only have a
    >vague idea that bigger numbers are better.


    Well
    At least you have an idea by now that the nerds dont rule the world
     
    FreedomChooser, May 30, 2005
    #18
  19. Mutley

    H.O.G Guest

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:29:12 +1200, Bling-Bling
    <> spoke these fine words:

    >On Mon, 30 May 2005 14:11:45 +1200, H.O.G wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:38:13 +1200, thing <> spoke these
    >> fine words:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Now take a huge slice of the server market, ie around 30% is Linux
    >>>Server, doing hardware CPUs that wont run OSS means you are handing 30% +
    >>>to AMD and writing off Itanium, I dont think Intel can be that dumb.

    >>
    >> Whilst it would be great if 30% of the server market were Linux servers,
    >> that is simply not true.
    >>
    >> Or are you just looking at Web Servers? Remember that Web Servers only
    >> make up a small proportion of the actual server market.

    >
    >Yeah - then there are email servers (sendmail, postfix, etc), nntp
    >servers, X-servers, database servers, and all manner of servers that are
    >made with Open Source software - most of which are commonly implemented.
    >

    Look, I've got absolutely nothing against Linux - I use it myself
    (best tool for the job in certain circumstances). However, there's
    absolutely no benefit in making incorrect ascertions and implying they
    are fact.

    Linux machines do NOT make up 30% of the server market. Whilst it
    would be great if that was the case, it is simply comical.
     
    H.O.G, May 30, 2005
    #19
  20. Mutley

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:12:13 +1200, H.O.G wrote:

    >>Yeah - then there are email servers (sendmail, postfix, etc), nntp
    >>servers, X-servers, database servers, and all manner of servers that are
    >>made with Open Source software - most of which are commonly implemented.
    >>

    > Look, I've got absolutely nothing against Linux - I use it myself (best
    > tool for the job in certain circumstances). However, there's absolutely no
    > benefit in making incorrect ascertions and implying they are fact.
    >
    > Linux machines do NOT make up 30% of the server market. Whilst it would be
    > great if that was the case, it is simply comical.


    Are you suggesting that MySQL, Sendmail, etc, servers only run on Linux?


    Bling Bling

    --
    "Linux and MySQL are going to keep chipping away at Micro$ofts' install base
    and it is terrified. Why else would they keep spouting on about how awful
    Linux is? If it was no threat they would just ignore and move on. I think the
    same goes for a huge number of windows admins, they see a steep learning curve
    for a whole new skill set on the horizon and are struggling to avoid it. Linux
    and open source are the future, get used to it."
     
    Bling-Bling, May 30, 2005
    #20
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