Integrated video question?

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Chris E, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. Chris E

    Chris E Guest

    I'm working on a system that fires up internally, the fan starts, and I can
    hear the HDD fire up, but there is no video output to the monitor. The
    system is using integrated vid. There is no AGP slot, so I tried testing
    with a PCI vid card. My problem is that the system is still looking for the
    integrated video and I cannot think of a way to disable it and use the PCI
    video (if the BIOS even allows it, I'm not sure). There is only one jumper
    on the mobo, to reset the BIOS, so there is no jumper settings to bypass the
    onboard video. Am I dead in the water? Am I going to have to replace the
    mobo to get this system up and running or is there anything else I can try?
    I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me. Thanks

    Chris
    A+, Network+
    Chris E, Aug 12, 2003
    #1
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  2. There should be something in the BIOS settings for you to disable your
    onboard video card, if not I wouldn't suggest buying a MB from that company
    again. Look under like Advanced setup.

    Philip

    "Chris E" <> wrote in message
    news:V5a_a.129304$YN5.86836@sccrnsc01...
    > I'm working on a system that fires up internally, the fan starts, and I

    can
    > hear the HDD fire up, but there is no video output to the monitor. The
    > system is using integrated vid. There is no AGP slot, so I tried testing
    > with a PCI vid card. My problem is that the system is still looking for

    the
    > integrated video and I cannot think of a way to disable it and use the PCI
    > video (if the BIOS even allows it, I'm not sure). There is only one

    jumper
    > on the mobo, to reset the BIOS, so there is no jumper settings to bypass

    the
    > onboard video. Am I dead in the water? Am I going to have to replace the
    > mobo to get this system up and running or is there anything else I can

    try?
    > I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me. Thanks
    >
    > Chris
    > A+, Network+
    >
    >
    C. Philip Cutler II, Aug 12, 2003
    #2
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  3. On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:12:05 GMT, "Chris E" <>
    wrote:

    >I'm working on a system that fires up internally, the fan starts, and I can
    >hear the HDD fire up, but there is no video output to the monitor. The
    >system is using integrated vid. There is no AGP slot, so I tried testing
    >with a PCI vid card. My problem is that the system is still looking for the
    >integrated video and I cannot think of a way to disable it and use the PCI
    >video (if the BIOS even allows it, I'm not sure). There is only one jumper
    >on the mobo, to reset the BIOS, so there is no jumper settings to bypass the
    >onboard video. Am I dead in the water? Am I going to have to replace the
    >mobo to get this system up and running or is there anything else I can try?
    >I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me. Thanks
    >
    >Chris
    >A+, Network+
    >


    What make and model of motherboard/system? Have you checked
    documentation to see if and how the onboard video can be disabled?
    There could perhaps be a key combination that will do this, for
    example.

    Tom
    Tom MacIntyre, Aug 12, 2003
    #3
  4. Chris E

    Ghost Guest

    In article <V5a_a.129304$YN5.86836@sccrnsc01>, "Chris E"
    <> wrote:

    > I'm working on a system that fires up internally, the fan starts, and I can
    > hear the HDD fire up, but there is no video output to the monitor. The
    > system is using integrated vid. There is no AGP slot, so I tried testing
    > with a PCI vid card. My problem is that the system is still looking for the
    > integrated video and I cannot think of a way to disable it and use the PCI
    > video (if the BIOS even allows it, I'm not sure). There is only one jumper
    > on the mobo, to reset the BIOS, so there is no jumper settings to bypass the
    > onboard video. Am I dead in the water? Am I going to have to replace the
    > mobo to get this system up and running or is there anything else I can try?
    > I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me. Thanks
    >
    > Chris
    > A+, Network+


    Look at the large capacitors surrounding the CPU... if the tops are even
    slightly swollen, or just a dot of brown leakage, you found your problem.
    Ghost, Aug 12, 2003
    #4
  5. Chris E

    Ghost Guest

    In article <>, "C Voyer"
    <> wrote:

    > "Chris E" <> wrote in message
    > news:V5a_a.129304$YN5.86836@sccrnsc01...
    > > I'm working on a system that fires up internally, the fan starts, and I

    > can
    > > hear the HDD fire up, but there is no video output to the monitor. The
    > > system is using integrated vid. There is no AGP slot, so I tried testing
    > > with a PCI vid card. My problem is that the system is still looking for

    > the
    > > integrated video and I cannot think of a way to disable it and use the PCI
    > > video (if the BIOS even allows it, I'm not sure). There is only one

    > jumper
    > > on the mobo, to reset the BIOS, so there is no jumper settings to bypass

    > the
    > > onboard video. Am I dead in the water? Am I going to have to replace the
    > > mobo to get this system up and running or is there anything else I can

    > try?
    > > I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me. Thanks
    > >
    > > Chris
    > > A+, Network+
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Are you sure there is no jumper on the motherboard to disable onboard vid?
    > My mobo has one and it took me a while to find it. What is the make?


    Actually, few mobos I have ever seen have such a jumper... and then,
    mostly the older ones...
    Ghost, Aug 13, 2003
    #5
  6. Chris E

    Chris E Guest

    The mobo is a MicroStar Model MS-6312. There is only one jumper on the
    board. It is a second-hand PC and the owner has no documentation and I have
    been able to find only VERY limited info online. There doesn't seem to be
    any leakage or swelling of capacitors. The BIOS may be able to bypass the
    onboard video, but I don't have any currnet video to see the BIOS.

    Chris
    A+, Network+


    "Tom MacIntyre" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:12:05 GMT, "Chris E" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >I'm working on a system that fires up internally, the fan starts, and I

    can
    > >hear the HDD fire up, but there is no video output to the monitor. The
    > >system is using integrated vid. There is no AGP slot, so I tried testing
    > >with a PCI vid card. My problem is that the system is still looking for

    the
    > >integrated video and I cannot think of a way to disable it and use the

    PCI
    > >video (if the BIOS even allows it, I'm not sure). There is only one

    jumper
    > >on the mobo, to reset the BIOS, so there is no jumper settings to bypass

    the
    > >onboard video. Am I dead in the water? Am I going to have to replace

    the
    > >mobo to get this system up and running or is there anything else I can

    try?
    > >I'd appreciate any help anyone can give me. Thanks
    > >
    > >Chris
    > >A+, Network+
    > >

    >
    > What make and model of motherboard/system? Have you checked
    > documentation to see if and how the onboard video can be disabled?
    > There could perhaps be a key combination that will do this, for
    > example.
    >
    > Tom
    Chris E, Aug 13, 2003
    #6
  7. Chris E

    Tony Sivori Guest

    On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:12:07 +0000, Ghost wrote:
    > "Chris E" wrote:
    >
    >> I'm working on a system that fires up internally, the fan starts, and I
    >> can hear the HDD fire up, but there is no video output to the monitor.

    >
    > Look at the large capacitors surrounding the CPU... if the tops are
    > even slightly swollen, or just a dot of brown leakage, you found your
    > problem.


    Are you seeing many boards with bad caps? Do you ever repair them, or do
    you always just swap out the mainboard?

    --
    Tony Sivori
    Tony Sivori, Aug 14, 2003
    #7
  8. Must have over-read that part of his post. oopss :p

    Philip

    "Nigel Kendrick" <> wrote in message
    news:bheecc$2sk$...
    >
    > "C. Philip Cutler II" <> wrote in message
    > news:l7b_a.77764$zy.40008@fed1read06...
    > > There should be something in the BIOS settings for you to disable your
    > > onboard video card, if not I wouldn't suggest buying a MB from that

    > company
    > > again. Look under like Advanced setup.

    >
    > Er, but he's got no video output...think about it!!
    >
    > NK
    >
    >
    C. Philip Cutler II, Aug 14, 2003
    #8
  9. Chris E

    birddog Guest

    swollen capaciters?

    Would swollen capacitors also make the computer not power up. I also
    have this motherboard and the two large capacitors behind the meg
    chips are swollen out on top and my computer will start to power up
    then it stops. Could the capacitors be causing this
    ==============
    For this group's frequently asked questions, check out www.CertFAQ.com
    birddog, Oct 26, 2003
    #9
  10. Chris E

    Geoff Guest

    Re: swollen capaciters?

    birddog wrote:
    > Would swollen capacitors also make the computer not power up. I also
    > have this motherboard and the two large capacitors behind the meg
    > chips are swollen out on top and my computer will start to power up
    > then it stops. Could the capacitors be causing this
    > ==============
    > For this group's frequently asked questions, check out www.CertFAQ.com


    yup
    if you are good you can replace them, if not, buy a new motherboard
    Geoff, Oct 26, 2003
    #10
  11. Chris E

    RussS Guest

    Re: swollen capaciters?

    ahhhh - YES.

    I won't get too technical, but a capacitor builds an electrical charge.
    When they 'blow' they are unable to reach the parameters needed to make the
    device they are connected to work. They can also work well enough to let a
    device operate, but as they heat up they cause the device to fail - many
    time this is a cause of motherboards continually shutting down for no
    apparent reason.
    RussS, Oct 26, 2003
    #11
  12. Re: swollen capaciters?

    On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:47:11 -0800,
    (birddog) wrote:

    >Would swollen capacitors also make the computer not power up. I also
    >have this motherboard and the two large capacitors behind the meg
    >chips are swollen out on top and my computer will start to power up
    >then it stops. Could the capacitors be causing this
    >==============
    >For this group's frequently asked questions, check out www.CertFAQ.com



    Yup, swollen caps can cause all kinds of problems. They are a known
    problem on ABIT Motherboards (they got a bunch of defective ones from
    their supplier).

    You MAY be able to replace them - if you have soldering experience.
    That said, since most MB's are multi-layered things, it can be tough.

    Since the thing doesn't work as-is....you may be willing to take the
    chance. I'd try it if I was ready to write the thing off as dead
    anyway - then what do you have to lose?




    I resisted 'till I couldn't take it anymore.

    (sigh) Address altered against Spam.

    Replace the -at- and put the "spring-mind" in the correct order
    mhaase-at-springmind.com, Oct 26, 2003
    #12
  13. Re: swollen capaciters?

    Absolutely. Get the motherboard replaced or repaired, from you
    description the caps are bad, and there is some chance of a catastrophic
    explosion that could do quite a bit of damage to the PC (and anyone who
    is nearby and in the way if the case is open).


    birddog wrote:

    > Would swollen capacitors also make the computer not power up. I also
    > have this motherboard and the two large capacitors behind the meg
    > chips are swollen out on top and my computer will start to power up
    > then it stops. Could the capacitors be causing this
    > ==============
    > For this group's frequently asked questions, check out www.CertFAQ.com
    Barry Watzman, Oct 27, 2003
    #13
  14. Chris E

    David Hough Guest

    Re: swollen capaciters?

    To replace it, look it over see if you can read any of the markings.
    The cap will have a voltage rating and a capacity in MFDs. Also, it
    could be a polar, in which case it will have a red dot or a + sign.
    Make a note of it before you start. Use a clean, tinned soldering tip.
    Get on the board and off it before you do heat damage.

    birddog wrote:
    > Would swollen capacitors also make the computer not power up. I also
    > have this motherboard and the two large capacitors behind the meg
    > chips are swollen out on top and my computer will start to power up
    > then it stops. Could the capacitors be causing this
    > ==============
    > For this group's frequently asked questions, check out www.CertFAQ.com
    David Hough, Oct 27, 2003
    #14
  15. Chris E

    Ghost Guest

    Re: swollen capaciters?

    In article <>,
    (birddog) wrote:

    > Would swollen capacitors also make the computer not power up. I also
    > have this motherboard and the two large capacitors behind the meg
    > chips are swollen out on top and my computer will start to power up
    > then it stops. Could the capacitors be causing this
    > ==============
    > For this group's frequently asked questions, check out www.CertFAQ.com




    err.. ya think??? lol

    This has been a long standing problem... sub-standard capacitors used in
    building mobos...

    The mobo is toast unless you replace the capacitors- then it *SHOULD* work
    fine..
    Ghost, Oct 28, 2003
    #15
  16. Re: swollen capaciters?

    On 26 Oct 2003 09:47:11 -0500, (birddog)
    wrote:

    >Would swollen capacitors also make the computer not power up. I also
    >have this motherboard and the two large capacitors behind the meg
    >chips are swollen out on top and my computer will start to power up
    >then it stops. Could the capacitors be causing this


    Many times a large capacitor swollen on top is okay, because that is
    the way they are made. This primarily includes those capacitors that
    have a plastic top, not the ones with the metal tops, and I am
    referring to very large capacitors. If they are swollen AND bad, they
    indeed could be causing the computer to not power up.

    Tom

    >==============
    >For this group's frequently asked questions, check out www.CertFAQ.com
    Tom MacIntyre, Oct 29, 2003
    #16
  17. Re: swollen capaciters?

    On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 01:42:06 -0500, Navin R. Johnson
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:34:56 GMT, Barry Watzman
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Absolutely. Get the motherboard replaced or repaired, from you
    >>description the caps are bad, and there is some chance of a catastrophic
    >>explosion that could do quite a bit of damage to the PC (and anyone who
    >>is nearby and in the way if the case is open).

    >
    >
    >All capacitors have a safety pressure release built in. They'll
    >sometimes make a pop and a hiss but no catastrophic explosions and
    >certainly no damage. Back in the day I used to work with electrolytic
    >capacitors that were the size of a large can of soup. Every so often one
    >would short out and make a fairly loud pop and sometimes even smoke but
    >I never saw one fragment or damage anything else in the unit.


    I have seen lots of fragments in my years of doing consumer
    electronics, and, while it isn't a danger to life and limb, that
    plastic cover flying through the air could do some eye damage.
    Generally that's only going to happen if it is put in backwards,
    though. :)

    >
    >One way to check a cap is with an ohm-meter. It should show almost 0
    >ohms to start with then quickly go to infinite as it charges. To get a
    >good reading though you may have to remove it to keep other components
    >in the circuit from interfering with the reading. And unless you've
    >soldered components successfully on multi-layer boards before you'll
    >probably ruin it anyway.


    One of the best tests of a capacitor is an ESR test, and that requires
    special equipment; either an ESR meter or a square wave source and an
    oscilloscope. As you say, the desoldering of a multi-layer board also
    pretty-much requires special equipment as well, such as a
    constant-suction desoldering station.

    Tom

    >
    >BTW - some caps look a little bloated but are perfectly fine. It's
    >really hard to tell a bad cap just by looking at it.
    >
    >
    >NRJ
    Tom MacIntyre, Oct 29, 2003
    #17
  18. Re: swollen capaciters?

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:02:42 -0500, Navin R. Johnson
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:10:13 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
    ><> wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >>I have seen lots of fragments in my years of doing consumer
    >>electronics, and, while it isn't a danger to life and limb, that
    >>plastic cover flying through the air could do some eye damage.
    >>Generally that's only going to happen if it is put in backwards,
    >>though. :)

    >
    >That could put an eye out! :)
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >>One of the best tests of a capacitor is an ESR test, and that requires
    >>special equipment; either an ESR meter or a square wave source and an
    >>oscilloscope. As you say, the desoldering of a multi-layer board also
    >>pretty-much requires special equipment as well, such as a
    >>constant-suction desoldering station.

    >
    >Can you do an ESR test on an electrolytic?


    That is one of the main tests we always did to ferret out
    electrolytics that otherwise tested good. We had a dedicated ESR
    tester for in-circuit, and also a Sencore LC-102 which tested value,
    ESR, absorption, and one other that slips my mind, as well as testing
    cables, coils, and a few other things.

    Tom

    >
    >NRJ
    >
    >>
    >>Tom
    >>
    >>>
    >>>BTW - some caps look a little bloated but are perfectly fine. It's
    >>>really hard to tell a bad cap just by looking at it.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>NRJ
    Tom MacIntyre, Oct 29, 2003
    #18
  19. Re: swollen capaciters?

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:36:32 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:02:42 -0500, Navin R. Johnson
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:10:13 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
    >><> wrote:
    >>
    >><snip>
    >>
    >>>I have seen lots of fragments in my years of doing consumer
    >>>electronics, and, while it isn't a danger to life and limb, that
    >>>plastic cover flying through the air could do some eye damage.
    >>>Generally that's only going to happen if it is put in backwards,
    >>>though. :)

    >>
    >>That could put an eye out! :)
    >>
    >><snip>
    >>
    >>>One of the best tests of a capacitor is an ESR test, and that requires
    >>>special equipment; either an ESR meter or a square wave source and an
    >>>oscilloscope. As you say, the desoldering of a multi-layer board also
    >>>pretty-much requires special equipment as well, such as a
    >>>constant-suction desoldering station.

    >>
    >>Can you do an ESR test on an electrolytic?

    >
    >That is one of the main tests we always did to ferret out
    >electrolytics that otherwise tested good. We had a dedicated ESR
    >tester for in-circuit, and also a Sencore LC-102 which tested value,
    >ESR, absorption, and one other that slips my mind,


    Of course, the other test for electrolytics was leakage.

    Tom
    Tom MacIntyre, Oct 31, 2003
    #19
  20. Re: swollen capaciters?

    On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:19:56 -0500, Navin R. Johnson
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:36:32 GMT, Tom MacIntyre
    ><> wrote:
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >>>Can you do an ESR test on an electrolytic?

    >>
    >>That is one of the main tests we always did to ferret out
    >>electrolytics that otherwise tested good. We had a dedicated ESR
    >>tester for in-circuit, and also a Sencore LC-102 which tested value,
    >>ESR, absorption, and one other that slips my mind, as well as testing
    >>cables, coils, and a few other things.
    >>
    >>Tom
    >>
    >>>

    >
    >Kewl. But... aren't the electrolytics mounted next to the CPU used to
    >filter DC?...... I thought the ESR rating of a cap basically measured
    >it's quality (or resistance) in an A/C circuit at different frequencies.


    The problem is that the ESR of a capacitor isolates the filtering
    capability of the capacitor from the voltage to be filtered, rendering
    it less effective. Hand held capacitor value checkers I have used in
    the past have actually sometimes demonstrated a tendency to identify a
    high-ESR capacitor as having above rated value. My theory about that
    is that they use an RC circuit and time the charge rate to calculate
    the value (assuming zero ESR), and the extra R makes the capacitor
    charge more slowly, which adds to the apparent capacitance...my
    theory.

    >A good cap will have an ESR of close to zero throughout a wide range of
    >frequencies. But won't a shorted cap also show an ESR of zero? Damn,
    >I've been out of school way too long to be thinking about this but I
    >seem to remember one of my instructors demonstrating it with a cap that
    >was dead shorted - just to show us that an ESR of zero isn't everything
    >and to always get out your ohm-meter first to check for a short.


    The dedicated, in-circuit ESR tester we used was able to find shorted
    capacitors also. You're right; although shorts are rare, they really
    kill a filter capacitor. :)

    Tom

    >
    >NRJ
    Tom MacIntyre, Oct 31, 2003
    #20
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