Installing drivers, Win XP

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Matty F, Nov 24, 2010.

  1. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    install new hardware?
    I plug in the hardware and start up the computer. Windows says it has
    detected new hardware. I tell it that I have a supplied CD ROM with
    the drivers on it. Windows is unable to find the drivers on the CD
    ROM.

    So how is it supposed to work? By some magic process, Windows gets
    some kind of indentifying name from the hardware, and is looking for
    that name amongst the driver files. How can I tell what it is looking
    for?

    I have installed two almost identical pieces of hardware on another
    computer running Win98SE without any problems.
    I need this to run by Friday!
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #1
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  2. On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:25:35 -0800 (PST), Matty F
    <> wrote:

    >Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    >install new hardware?
    >I plug in the hardware and start up the computer. Windows says it has
    >detected new hardware. I tell it that I have a supplied CD ROM with
    >the drivers on it. Windows is unable to find the drivers on the CD
    >ROM.
    >
    >So how is it supposed to work? By some magic process, Windows gets
    >some kind of indentifying name from the hardware, and is looking for
    >that name amongst the driver files. How can I tell what it is looking
    >for?
    >
    >I have installed two almost identical pieces of hardware on another
    >computer running Win98SE without any problems.
    >I need this to run by Friday!




    Is the Software XP compatible, ? some times you might have to point to
    CD and the XP folder on the CD, you can select the path to the CD and
    the folder.
     
    William Brown, Nov 24, 2010
    #2
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  3. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 24, 8:07 pm, wrote:
    > On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:25:35 -0800 (PST), Matty F
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > >Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > >install new hardware?

    >
    > As I understand it, Windows looks for a setup information file
    > (something.inf) which is a text file that contains the names of the
    > required driver files and where they should be stored. You could
    > perhaps look for a .inf file on your CD.


    Why can't Windows tell me what inf file it is looking for?
    Obviously I can see all the files on the CD.
    I know where the driver files are stored. They are in a folder on the
    CD called "drivers". However Windows can't find the driver files that
    it wants in there.
    I really like to know how things are supposed to work, because when
    they don't work I may be able to work out why.

    So, Windows detects new hardware. There must be some kind of standard
    for that. Does the hardware somehow supply its name to Windows, and
    how do all the hardware manufacturers choose different names, and pass
    the info across in what form?
    Why can't Windows say that it is looking fpr drivers for an XYZ123
    board? Nope it just wants to search the Internet for drivers, when the
    drivers have allegedly been supplied on a CD ROM which is right here
    ready to read. But Windows is looking for an ABC123 board, but Windows
    won't tell me that.
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #3
  4. Matty F

    Murray Symon Guest

    Matty F wrote:

    > On Nov 24, 8:07 pm, wrote:
    >> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:25:35 -0800 (PST), Matty F
    >>
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    >> >install new hardware?

    >>
    >> As I understand it, Windows looks for a setup information file
    >> (something.inf) which is a text file that contains the names of the
    >> required driver files and where they should be stored. You could
    >> perhaps look for a .inf file on your CD.

    >
    > Why can't Windows tell me what inf file it is looking for?
    > Obviously I can see all the files on the CD.
    > I know where the driver files are stored. They are in a folder on the
    > CD called "drivers". However Windows can't find the driver files that
    > it wants in there.
    > I really like to know how things are supposed to work, because when
    > they don't work I may be able to work out why.
    >
    > So, Windows detects new hardware. There must be some kind of standard
    > for that. Does the hardware somehow supply its name to Windows, and
    > how do all the hardware manufacturers choose different names, and pass
    > the info across in what form?
    > Why can't Windows say that it is looking fpr drivers for an XYZ123
    > board? Nope it just wants to search the Internet for drivers, when the
    > drivers have allegedly been supplied on a CD ROM which is right here
    > ready to read. But Windows is looking for an ABC123 board, but Windows
    > won't tell me that.


    This is how I remember it from Windows 95, last century.
    There is a standard process of device enumeration.
    Try searching for "windows device enumeration".
    Each separate system buss is called upon to enumerate its own devices.
    The devices generally have ID codes, e.g. PCI have vendor:device codes.
    Intel's PCI vendor code is 0x8086 :)
    If the motherboard is PnP enabled it will be interrogated too.
    That might be enough to get you started ...
     
    Murray Symon, Nov 24, 2010
    #4
  5. Matty F

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/11/10 18:25, Matty F wrote:
    > Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > install new hardware?
    > I plug in the hardware and start up the computer. Windows says it has
    > detected new hardware. I tell it that I have a supplied CD ROM with
    > the drivers on it. Windows is unable to find the drivers on the CD
    > ROM.
    >
    > So how is it supposed to work? By some magic process, Windows gets
    > some kind of indentifying name from the hardware, and is looking for
    > that name amongst the driver files. How can I tell what it is looking
    > for?
    >
    > I have installed two almost identical pieces of hardware on another
    > computer running Win98SE without any problems.
    > I need this to run by Friday!
    >

    Are you sure that you need to install drivers from the CD? If it is USB
    attached hardware then it most likely doesn't need special drivers. If
    the drivers are on the CD you may have to autorun the CD and use a
    program on the CD to install the drivers.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Nov 24, 2010
    #5
  6. Matty F

    Enkidu Guest

    On 24/11/10 18:25, Matty F wrote:
    > Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > install new hardware?
    > I plug in the hardware and start up the computer. Windows says it has
    > detected new hardware. I tell it that I have a supplied CD ROM with
    > the drivers on it. Windows is unable to find the drivers on the CD
    > ROM.
    >
    > So how is it supposed to work? By some magic process, Windows gets
    > some kind of indentifying name from the hardware, and is looking for
    > that name amongst the driver files. How can I tell what it is looking
    > for?
    >

    It looks for an .inf file that matches the hardware signature. If it
    can't find them on the CD, they aren't on the CD. Are you sure that you
    have the correct CD?

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The ends justifies the means - Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

    The end excuses any evil - Sophocles
     
    Enkidu, Nov 24, 2010
    #6
  7. Matty F

    Richard Guest

    On 24/11/2010 6:25 p.m., Matty F wrote:
    > Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > install new hardware?
    > I plug in the hardware and start up the computer. Windows says it has
    > detected new hardware. I tell it that I have a supplied CD ROM with
    > the drivers on it. Windows is unable to find the drivers on the CD
    > ROM.
    >
    > So how is it supposed to work? By some magic process, Windows gets
    > some kind of indentifying name from the hardware, and is looking for
    > that name amongst the driver files. How can I tell what it is looking
    > for?
    >
    > I have installed two almost identical pieces of hardware on another
    > computer running Win98SE without any problems.
    > I need this to run by Friday!


    go into device manager, find the yellow questionmark device, right click
    properties, go to the last tab (details) and there is a dropdown box,

    choose hardware IDs and there is some numbers there. That is what
    windows is looking thru all the .inf files to find one which matches.

    If you highlight one of the lines and ctrl-c to copy it (no right click
    in XP for some reason) and google the string you may find what it is and
    some drivers.

    Start with the shortest string, they are like this:

    PCI\VEN_1234&DEV_4321&SUBSYSsomethingblah blah

    the ven_ and dev_ numbers are important

    try putting them together as in
    1234:4321 and google for that and PCI or USB or whatever and you will
    often find a large list from linux that has a more generic name for the
    device that you can use to find some reference windows drivers.

    When searching for drivers there are several PAIN IN THE ASS sites like
    driverguide that seem to have got there way to the top of google results
    and are worthless, and others which wantyou get get some "tool" to
    "help" you update drivers and probably install much malware at the same
    time so be careful.
     
    Richard, Nov 24, 2010
    #7
  8. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 24, 10:08 pm, Enkidu <> wrote:
    > On 24/11/10 18:25, Matty F wrote:>


    > > I have installed two almost identical pieces of hardware on another
    > > computer running Win98SE without any problems.


    > Are you sure that you need to install drivers from the CD? If it is USB
    > attached hardware then it most likely doesn't need special drivers. If
    > the drivers are on the CD you may have to autorun the CD and use a
    > program on the CD to install the drivers.


    It is not USB hardware. It's a video capture card.
    As I said I have successfully installed almost identical cards on a
    Win98SEsystem, using the drivers on the supplied CD.
    I suspect that there is some weird problem with the reasonably new PC
    that I am trying to install it on, i.e. that the hardware ID is not
    being transferred correctly.
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #8
  9. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 24, 10:10 pm, Enkidu <> wrote:
    > On 24/11/10 18:25, Matty F wrote:> Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > > install new hardware?
    > > I plug in the hardware and start up the computer. Windows says it has
    > > detected new hardware. I tell it that I have a supplied CD ROM with
    > > the drivers on it. Windows is unable to find the drivers on the CD
    > > ROM.

    >
    > > So how is it supposed to work? By some magic process, Windows gets
    > > some kind of indentifying name from the hardware, and is looking for
    > > that name amongst the driver files. How can I tell what it is looking
    > > for?

    >
    > It looks for an .inf file that matches the hardware signature. If it
    > can't find them on the CD, they aren't on the CD. Are you sure that you
    > have the correct CD?


    I have asked the supplier twice whether he has supplied the correct
    CD. Boy he is going to get some negative feedback if he is wrong.
    Did I mention that I have already installed two of these devices
    already using the supplied CD and that worked perfectly?
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #9
  10. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 24, 9:29 pm, EMB <> wrote:
    > On 24/11/2010 6:25 p.m., Matty F wrote:
    >
    > > Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > > install new hardware?
    > > I plug in the hardware and start up the computer. Windows says it has
    > > detected new hardware. I tell it that I have a supplied CD ROM with
    > > the drivers on it. Windows is unable to find the drivers on the CD
    > > ROM.

    >
    > I doubt the CD has the correct drivers on it. You could try posting a
    > bit more detail - for instance what the hardware is. If it's really old
    > then it is likely that XP drivers are not available. A bit of detail as
    > to the version of XP and its patch level would probably be useful too.


    The supplier has supplied a CD with the drivers on and says that it
    works with XP and that many other customers have not had problems.
    >
    > > So how is it supposed to work? By some magic process, Windows gets
    > > some kind of indentifying name from the hardware, and is looking for
    > > that name amongst the driver files. How can I tell what it is looking
    > > for?

    >
    > Without drivers it will show up in Device manager as an 'Unknown
    > Device'. In its properties on the detail tab there will be a device ID
    > string in the form of PCI\VEN_104C&DEV_803A&SUBSYS_202E17AA&REV_00


    Unfortunately I can't easily check all that right now. The Win98SE
    machine that works with these capture cards does not have a "detail
    tab". I'lll have to drive some distance to check each suggestion.


    > This is the unique ID to that particular model of hardware. Google
    > should shed light on what drivers are needed. The .inf file mentioned
    > by another poster will tie that ID in to particular driver files needed
    > to make it run.
    >
    >
    >
    > > I have installed two almost identical pieces of hardware on another
    > > computer running Win98SE without any problems.
    > > I need this to run by Friday!
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #10
  11. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 25, 8:33 am, "WorkHard" <> wrote:
    > Matty F wrote:
    > > On Nov 24, 10:08 pm, Enkidu <> wrote:
    > >> On 24/11/10 18:25, Matty F wrote:>

    >
    > >>> I have installed two almost identical pieces of hardware on
    > >>> another
    > >>> computer running Win98SE without any problems.

    >
    > >> Are you sure that you need to install drivers from the CD? If
    > >> it is
    > >> USB attached hardware then it most likely doesn't need special
    > >> drivers. If the drivers are on the CD you may have to autorun
    > >> the CD
    > >> and use a program on the CD to install the drivers.

    >
    > > It is not USB hardware. It's a video capture card.
    > > As I said I have successfully installed almost identical cards
    > > on a
    > > Win98SEsystem, using the drivers on the supplied CD.
    > > I suspect that there is some weird problem with the reasonably
    > > new PC
    > > that I am trying to install it on, i.e. that the hardware ID is
    > > not
    > > being transferred correctly.

    >
    > Are you trying to install on Windows 7 or XP? May not be
    > compatible with W7.


    The computer appears to be running XP. It says XP on the startup
    screeen and it looks like XP to run.
    However it has a label for Windows 7 stuck on the box.
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #11
  12. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 24, 11:50 pm, EMB <> wrote:
    > On 24/11/2010 11:20 p.m., Matty F wrote:


    > > The supplier has supplied a CD with the drivers on and says that it
    > > works with XP and that many other customers have not had problems.

    >
    > Seriously Matty, you could try helping yourself a bit by letting us know
    > what it is - someone here may say "Oh yes, the Kamakuza CZT127 video
    > capture card has a known bug involving the drivers and XP pre-SP3 and
    > the workaround is to sacrifice 2 chickens and read the Karma-Sutra
    > backwards as you install the drivers for Windows 2003". More detail
    > might just get you more answers.


    This appears to be the card:
    http://www.mystoresecurity.com/shop/product.php?productid=2013&cat=18&page=1

    As I've said, I have two of these already that run fine on Win98SE,
    except that Win98SE tends to run out of memory after a few days.
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #12
  13. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 24, 11:50 pm, EMB <> wrote:
    > On 24/11/2010 11:20 p.m., Matty F wrote:
    >
    > > Unfortunately I can't easily check all that right now. The Win98SE
    > > machine that works with these capture cards does not have a "detail
    > > tab". I'lll have to drive some distance to check each suggestion.

    >
    > It'll still have some sort of device ID


    It is likely that the XP conputer that I am trying to install the card
    on has a hardware problem.It now won't boot up at all, with or without
    the card in it. Experts are looking at it.
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2010
    #13
  14. Matty F

    Dave Taylor Guest

    Matty F <> wrote in news:aeec6e90-b687-4269-85c0-
    :

    > I have asked the supplier twice whether he has supplied the correct
    > CD. Boy he is going to get some negative feedback if he is wrong.
    > Did I mention that I have already installed two of these devices
    > already using the supplied CD and that worked perfectly?
    >


    Onto the same version of windows? If so, then your cd got scratched and is
    defective.
    I beleive that driver disks are always out of date unless it was just made
    and handed to me. Look on the internet for an updated driver for the
    product.

    Why don't you tell us what the product is and we can help more...


    --
    Ciao, Dave
     
    Dave Taylor, Nov 25, 2010
    #14
  15. On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 07:57:40 +0000 (UTC), Dave Taylor
    <> wrote:

    >Matty F <> wrote in news:aeec6e90-b687-4269-85c0-
    >:
    >
    >> I have asked the supplier twice whether he has supplied the correct
    >> CD. Boy he is going to get some negative feedback if he is wrong.
    >> Did I mention that I have already installed two of these devices
    >> already using the supplied CD and that worked perfectly?
    >>

    >
    >Onto the same version of windows? If so, then your cd got scratched and is
    >defective.
    >I beleive that driver disks are always out of date unless it was just made
    >and handed to me. Look on the internet for an updated driver for the
    >product.
    >
    >Why don't you tell us what the product is and we can help more...




    How can he move to XP as its not sold any more plus those cards don't
    come with WIN 7 Drivers..

    As I say look before you leap.

    Same problem that I found that most of the Bluetooth USB adapters are
    not WIN 7 Compliant, a good one is the Asus and no one stocks it around
    here.
     
    William Brown, Nov 25, 2010
    #15
  16. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 25, 8:30 pm, EMB <> wrote:
    > On 25/11/2010 8:46 a.m., Matty F wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On Nov 24, 11:50 pm, EMB<> wrote:
    > >> On 24/11/2010 11:20 p.m., Matty F wrote:

    >
    > >>> The supplier has supplied a CD with the drivers on and says that it
    > >>> works with XP and that many other customers have not had problems.

    >
    > >> Seriously Matty, you could try helping yourself a bit by letting us know
    > >> what it is - someone here may say "Oh yes, the Kamakuza CZT127 video
    > >> capture card has a known bug involving the drivers and XP pre-SP3 and
    > >> the workaround is to sacrifice 2 chickens and read the Karma-Sutra
    > >> backwards as you install the drivers for Windows 2003". More detail
    > >> might just get you more answers.

    >
    > > This appears to be the card:
    > >http://www.mystoresecurity.com/shop/product.php?productid=2013&cat=18...

    >
    > > As I've said, I have two of these already that run fine on Win98SE,
    > > except that Win98SE tends to run out of memory after a few days.

    >
    > Seriously... move on from 98SE. It's insecure and somewhat flaky in the
    > memory management stakes (and increasingly unsupported at all levels).


    The 98SE computer is running just fine. It never connects with the
    Internet. It's running just one application - video capture - which it
    does fine. The machine is too slow and small to run XP.
     
    Matty F, Nov 25, 2010
    #16
  17. Matty F

    Brocker Guest

    On Nov 25, 9:14 pm, Matty F <> wrote:
    > On Nov 25, 8:30 pm, EMB <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 25/11/2010 8:46 a.m., Matty F wrote:

    >
    > > > On Nov 24, 11:50 pm, EMB<>  wrote:
    > > >> On 24/11/2010 11:20 p.m., Matty F wrote:

    >
    > > >>> The supplier has supplied a CD with the drivers on and says that it
    > > >>> works with XP and that many other customers have not had problems.

    >
    > > >> Seriously Matty, you could try helping yourself a bit by letting us know
    > > >> what it is - someone here may say "Oh yes, the Kamakuza CZT127 video
    > > >> capture card has a known bug involving the drivers and XP pre-SP3 and
    > > >> the workaround is to sacrifice 2 chickens and read the Karma-Sutra
    > > >> backwards as you install the drivers for Windows 2003".  More detail
    > > >> might just get you more answers.

    >
    > > > This appears to be the card:
    > > >http://www.mystoresecurity.com/shop/product.php?productid=2013&cat=18...

    >
    > > > As I've said, I have two of these already that run fine on Win98SE,
    > > > except that Win98SE tends to run out of memory after a few days.

    >
    > > Seriously... move on from 98SE.  It's insecure and somewhat flaky in the
    > > memory management stakes (and increasingly unsupported at all levels).

    >
    > The 98SE computer is running just fine. It never connects with the
    > Internet. It's running just one application - video capture - which it
    > does fine. The machine is too slow and small to run XP.


    So if you look on CD does it have separate directory for WinXp as the
    drivers are unlikely to be the same for both XP and 98.
    Does it have a setup program, some required this. The fact that it has
    Win98se drivers indicates it could be quite old and may not
    troublefree when installing on XP.
    My first capture had drivers for Win98 but WinXp was a mission.
     
    Brocker, Nov 25, 2010
    #17
  18. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 25, 9:54 pm, Brocker <> wrote:

    > So if you look on CD does it have separate directory for WinXp as the
    > drivers are unlikely to be the same for both XP and 98.
    > Does it have a setup program, some required this. The fact that it has
    > Win98se drivers indicates it could be quite old and may not
    > troublefree when installing on XP.
    > My first capture had drivers for Win98 but WinXp was a mission.


    Yes there is a separate directory for Win XP.
    There is a setup program.
    The seller has sold hundreds of these cards and I have not seen any
    negative feedback. Surely some if not most of the buyers are using XP.
    As I've stated, the XP computer won't even boot up now, so it was
    probably a hardware problem all the time.
     
    Matty F, Nov 25, 2010
    #18
  19. In message
    <>, Matty F
    wrote:

    > Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > install new hardware?


    For some of them, you MUST install the drivers BEFORE connecting the
    hardware. For others you MUST NOT.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Nov 25, 2010
    #19
  20. Matty F

    Matty F Guest

    On Nov 25, 10:32 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > In message
    > <>, Matty F
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Can anyone explain how Windows knows what drivers it needs when I
    > > install new hardware?

    >
    > For some of them, you MUST install the drivers BEFORE connecting the
    > hardware. For others you MUST NOT.


    The instructions with the card say to put the card in first and let
    Windows find it, then tell Windows that the drivers are on the
    supplied CD.
    Besides I don't know how to install drivers for a device the computer
    knows nothing about. If I were desiging an operating system I would
    have all the drivers as simple files in a standard place, with the
    manufacturer's name and card ID held with the files.
     
    Matty F, Nov 25, 2010
    #20
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