Inkjet prints lifetime in photo album

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by alacriti@hotmail.com, Feb 8, 2005.

  1. Guest

    I am considering purchasing either the Epson R800 or the Canon i9900
    printer. I'm planning on mounting prints I make in a photo album. I
    understand the Canon prints have a lifetime of something like 30 years
    under glass in display conditions. What does this translate to if the
    photos are mounted in a photo album? It would be nice to make
    something that would be around for the grandkids.

    Thanks in advance,
     
    , Feb 8, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. RSD99 Guest

    "alacriti" posted:
    "...
    It would be nice to make something that would be around for the grandkids.
    ...."

    If so .. the Epson R800 uses the Ultrachrome pigmented inks. These are the
    closest thing to archival that anyone has come up with ... to date, anyway.
    Print life ratings seem to be well into the three-digit range.

    You can find out more at Wilhelm Imaging Research, Inc.
    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/
    An article and ratings on the R800 are at
    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html
    http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep_R800_2004_12_03.pdf

    Oh ... and FWIW: the tests I have seen for the Canon do not appear to be
    anywhere near as long.




    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am considering purchasing either the Epson R800 or the Canon i9900
    > printer. I'm planning on mounting prints I make in a photo album. I
    > understand the Canon prints have a lifetime of something like 30 years
    > under glass in display conditions. What does this translate to if the
    > photos are mounted in a photo album? It would be nice to make
    > something that would be around for the grandkids.
    >
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
     
    RSD99, Feb 9, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Ben Thomas Guest

    RSD99 wrote:
    > "alacriti" posted:
    > "...
    > It would be nice to make something that would be around for the grandkids.
    > ..."
    >
    > If so .. the Epson R800 uses the Ultrachrome pigmented inks. These are the
    > closest thing to archival that anyone has come up with ... to date, anyway.
    > Print life ratings seem to be well into the three-digit range.
    >
    > You can find out more at Wilhelm Imaging Research, Inc.
    > http://www.wilhelm-research.com/
    > An article and ratings on the R800 are at
    > http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html
    > http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep_R800_2004_12_03.pdf
    >
    > Oh ... and FWIW: the tests I have seen for the Canon do not appear to be
    > anywhere near as long.


    I don't have access to WWW right now, so can you tell me if those links mention
    print longevity in an album (which is what the OP was asking basically)?

    --
    --
    Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

    My Digital World:
    Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
    Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
    Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
    Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

    Disclaimer:
    Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
    relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
    given nor endorsed by it.
     
    Ben Thomas, Feb 9, 2005
    #3
  4. wrote in message news:<>...
    > I am considering purchasing either the Epson R800 or the Canon i9900
    > printer. I'm planning on mounting prints I make in a photo album. I
    > understand the Canon prints have a lifetime of something like 30 years
    > under glass in display conditions. What does this translate to if the
    > photos are mounted in a photo album? It would be nice to make
    > something that would be around for the grandkids.
    >
    > Thanks in advance,

    Sorry, can't answer Your question directly.However, Epson claim print
    life of 75 years with r800 and relevant paper.I have R800 and I can
    recomend print quality.I would have thought that prints 'sealed' in a
    modern photo album with plastic inserts and in relative darkness most
    of time, would last as least as long as anything hanging on a wall.
    Peter.
     
    peter clarkson, Feb 9, 2005
    #4
  5. Mark² Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I am considering purchasing either the Epson R800 or the Canon i9900
    > printer. I'm planning on mounting prints I make in a photo album. I
    > understand the Canon prints have a lifetime of something like 30 years
    > under glass in display conditions. What does this translate to if the
    > photos are mounted in a photo album? It would be nice to make
    > something that would be around for the grandkids.
    >
    > Thanks in advance,


    The Epson's Ultra Chrome inks are pigment-based, and will outlast ANY dye-based system
    currently available for desktop printing.
     
    Mark², Feb 9, 2005
    #5
  6. Ben Thomas Guest

    peter clarkson wrote:
    > wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >>I am considering purchasing either the Epson R800 or the Canon i9900
    >>printer. I'm planning on mounting prints I make in a photo album. I
    >>understand the Canon prints have a lifetime of something like 30 years
    >>under glass in display conditions. What does this translate to if the
    >>photos are mounted in a photo album? It would be nice to make
    >>something that would be around for the grandkids.
    >>
    >>Thanks in advance,

    >
    > Sorry, can't answer Your question directly.However, Epson claim print
    > life of 75 years with r800 and relevant paper.I have R800 and I can
    > recomend print quality.I would have thought that prints 'sealed' in a
    > modern photo album with plastic inserts and in relative darkness most
    > of time, would last as least as long as anything hanging on a wall.
    > Peter.


    Wouldn't plastic inserts be a bad idea if you're looking for longevity?

    --
    --
    Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

    My Digital World:
    Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
    Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
    Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
    Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

    Disclaimer:
    Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
    relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
    given nor endorsed by it.
     
    Ben Thomas, Feb 9, 2005
    #6
  7. Ben Thomas <> writes:

    > RSD99 wrote:
    >> "alacriti" posted:
    >> "...
    >> It would be nice to make something that would be around for the grandkids.
    >> ..."
    >> If so .. the Epson R800 uses the Ultrachrome pigmented inks. These
    >> are the
    >> closest thing to archival that anyone has come up with ... to date, anyway.
    >> Print life ratings seem to be well into the three-digit range.
    >> You can find out more at Wilhelm Imaging Research, Inc.
    >> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/
    >> An article and ratings on the R800 are at
    >> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html
    >> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep_R800_2004_12_03.pdf
    >> Oh ... and FWIW: the tests I have seen for the Canon do not appear
    >> to be
    >> anywhere near as long.

    >
    > I don't have access to WWW right now, so can you tell me if those
    > links mention print longevity in an album (which is what the OP was
    > asking basically)?


    Yes; one of the categories they give a rating for is "Album/dark
    storage". For those conditions, *all* of the papers they tested the
    Epson R800 with rate over 100 years, and most rate over 200 years.

    Since you say "right now", perhaps
    <http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html> will be useful to
    you later, or to other people.
    --
    David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
    RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
    Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
    Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
     
    David Dyer-Bennet, Feb 9, 2005
    #7
  8. rafe bustin Guest

    On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:12:09 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    number here)@cox..net> wrote:


    >The Epson's Ultra Chrome inks are pigment-based, and will outlast ANY dye-based system
    >currently available for desktop printing.



    Not necessarily. The HP DesignJet 30 and 130 (and a
    few other HP models) get an 82 year Wilhelm rating
    on selected HP media.

    Not disputing your *general* point that pigment
    inks will yield better longevity than dyes. But
    the HP ink/paper system is a specific exception.



    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe bustin, Feb 9, 2005
    #8
  9. Mark² Guest

    "rafe bustin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:12:09 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    > number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>The Epson's Ultra Chrome inks are pigment-based, and will outlast ANY dye-based system
    >>currently available for desktop printing.

    >
    >
    > Not necessarily. The HP DesignJet 30 and 130 (and a
    > few other HP models) get an 82 year Wilhelm rating
    > on selected HP media.
    >
    > Not disputing your *general* point that pigment
    > inks will yield better longevity than dyes. But
    > the HP ink/paper system is a specific exception.


    My personal experience is that Willhelm has been very very wrong in the
    past...specifically with regard to Epson's 1270/870 printers and ink. They had horrible
    shift problems (and I'm an Epson guy!)...even after fabulous claims of longevity from
    Willhelm.

    I do understand that he is widely regarded as the longevity guru...but I would be very
    cautious when considering ANY ink-based system that is not behind glass, or where future
    handling cannot necessarily be predicted (which definitely includes albums).
     
    Mark², Feb 9, 2005
    #9
  10. rafe bustin Guest

    On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 04:20:03 GMT, Ben Thomas <>
    wrote:


    >Wouldn't plastic inserts be a bad idea if you're looking for longevity?



    Works for me.

    The main thing you want to do is keep
    them away from atmospheric contaminants,
    heat, and strong light.

    Best thing you can do to preserve a print
    is frame it, under glass or plexi, using
    a proper mat.


    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe bustin, Feb 9, 2005
    #10
  11. rafe bustin Guest

    On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:10:05 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    number here)@cox..net> wrote:

    >
    >"rafe bustin" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:12:09 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    >> number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>The Epson's Ultra Chrome inks are pigment-based, and will outlast ANY dye-based system
    >>>currently available for desktop printing.

    >>
    >>
    >> Not necessarily. The HP DesignJet 30 and 130 (and a
    >> few other HP models) get an 82 year Wilhelm rating
    >> on selected HP media.
    >>
    >> Not disputing your *general* point that pigment
    >> inks will yield better longevity than dyes. But
    >> the HP ink/paper system is a specific exception.

    >
    >My personal experience is that Willhelm has been very very wrong in the
    >past...specifically with regard to Epson's 1270/870 printers and ink. They had horrible
    >shift problems (and I'm an Epson guy!)...even after fabulous claims of longevity from
    >Willhelm.
    >
    >I do understand that he is widely regarded as the longevity guru...but I would be very
    >cautious when considering ANY ink-based system that is not behind glass, or where future
    >handling cannot necessarily be predicted (which definitely includes albums).



    Yes, the "orange shift" fiasco was a
    bit of an embarassment, and not just
    for Henry Wilhelm. On the other hand it
    led to refinements in the testing regime
    and further qualifications -- notice
    how the longevity figures are now quoted
    for prints *under glass.*

    I'm not defending Wilhelm particularly.
    OTOH, I've seen ordinary dye ink prints
    last a lot longer than anyone says they
    ought to.

    A healthy skepticism is wise, but give
    some credit where it's due -- there aren't
    too many doing what Wilhelm does.



    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe bustin, Feb 9, 2005
    #11
  12. Mark² Guest

    "rafe bustin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:10:05 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    > number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"rafe bustin" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:12:09 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    >>> number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>The Epson's Ultra Chrome inks are pigment-based, and will outlast ANY dye-based system
    >>>>currently available for desktop printing.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Not necessarily. The HP DesignJet 30 and 130 (and a
    >>> few other HP models) get an 82 year Wilhelm rating
    >>> on selected HP media.
    >>>
    >>> Not disputing your *general* point that pigment
    >>> inks will yield better longevity than dyes. But
    >>> the HP ink/paper system is a specific exception.

    >>
    >>My personal experience is that Willhelm has been very very wrong in the
    >>past...specifically with regard to Epson's 1270/870 printers and ink. They had horrible
    >>shift problems (and I'm an Epson guy!)...even after fabulous claims of longevity from
    >>Willhelm.
    >>
    >>I do understand that he is widely regarded as the longevity guru...but I would be very
    >>cautious when considering ANY ink-based system that is not behind glass, or where future
    >>handling cannot necessarily be predicted (which definitely includes albums).

    >
    >
    > Yes, the "orange shift" fiasco was a
    > bit of an embarassment, and not just
    > for Henry Wilhelm. On the other hand it
    > led to refinements in the testing regime
    > and further qualifications -- notice
    > how the longevity figures are now quoted
    > for prints *under glass.*
    >
    > I'm not defending Wilhelm particularly.
    > OTOH, I've seen ordinary dye ink prints
    > last a lot longer than anyone says they
    > ought to.
    >
    > A healthy skepticism is wise, but give
    > some credit where it's due -- there aren't
    > too many doing what Wilhelm does.


    I completely agree with this last statement in particular.
    Wilhelm is a good guy doing good work.
    The orange shift was particularly frustrating to me because it was their claims of
    longevity that convinced me to by the *then* top-of-the-line Nikon film scanner...and 1270
    printer. What a disappointment to find that I couldn't rely on ANY of my prints!! It was
    a real damper on my photographic enthusiasm, because I love to provide prints for
    others--but did NOT want to necessarily include a long list of do's and don'ts for
    handling/protecting the prints.

    I *am* an Epson fan, however (now that I've over my serious fits of anger at them...), and
    am an extremely happer user of their fantastic Epson 4000 17" wide format Ultra Chrome
    printer. What a fabulous machine this is!

    Anyway... I am generally in agreement with you on the above regarding Wilhelm.
    -Mark
     
    Mark², Feb 9, 2005
    #12
  13. Mark² Guest

    "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
    news:OSiOd.48267$0u.4479@fed1read04...
    > I completely agree with this last statement in particular.
    > Wilhelm is a good guy doing good work.
    > The orange shift was particularly frustrating to me because it was their claims of
    > longevity that convinced me to by


    **Should read, "convinced me to **buy...**"
    :)
     
    Mark², Feb 9, 2005
    #13
  14. Tom Scales Guest

    "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
    news:JWgOd.45986$0u.24322@fed1read04...
    <snip>
    My personal experience is that Willhelm has been very very wrong in the
    > past...specifically with regard to Epson's 1270/870 printers and ink.
    > They had horrible shift problems (and I'm an Epson guy!)...even after
    > fabulous claims of longevity from Willhelm.

    <snip>

    It's interesting, but I still have, and use, my 1270 daily. I have NEVER
    had a color shift, even on unprotected prints on the wall. We've lived in
    Austin, Orlando and Harrisburg, three pretty different places and nothing.

    Tom
     
    Tom Scales, Feb 9, 2005
    #14
  15. rafe bustin Guest

    On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 23:22:25 -0800, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    number here)@cox..net> wrote:


    >The orange shift was particularly frustrating to me because it was their claims of
    >longevity that convinced me to by the *then* top-of-the-line Nikon film scanner...and 1270
    >printer. What a disappointment to find that I couldn't rely on ANY of my prints!! It was
    >a real damper on my photographic enthusiasm, because I love to provide prints for
    >others--but did NOT want to necessarily include a long list of do's and don'ts for
    >handling/protecting the prints.



    I remberer it well. The issue occupied the
    Epson listserv for months, as you can imagine.

    It was especially frustrating because it was
    the first time that Epson had even made
    specific longevity claims for their prints.

    Anyway -- I was glad for once that I didn't
    have the latest greatest and newest printer.


    rafe b
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    rafe bustin, Feb 9, 2005
    #15
  16. Markeau Guest

    Has anyone had problems with inkjet prints sticking to the plastic
    sheets that are typically found in photo albums? I ask this because
    ink jet ink is different than regular photo-process material and I
    have heard a few reports of ink jet ink sticking/smearing to the
    inside of glass in a frame (thus the recommendation to matte framed
    prints which keeps the ink from contacting the glass) - so it seems
    that the ink might also have a liklihood of sticking to the plastic
    sheeting especially if under the normal "pressure" that closed albums
    can encounter.
     
    Markeau, Feb 9, 2005
    #16
  17. Larry Guest

    In article <>, p
    says...
    > Has anyone had problems with inkjet prints sticking to the plastic
    > sheets that are typically found in photo albums? I ask this because
    > ink jet ink is different than regular photo-process material and I
    > have heard a few reports of ink jet ink sticking/smearing to the
    > inside of glass in a frame (thus the recommendation to matte framed
    > prints which keeps the ink from contacting the glass) - so it seems
    > that the ink might also have a liklihood of sticking to the plastic
    > sheeting especially if under the normal "pressure" that closed albums
    > can encounter.
    >


    I have had this problem ONLY when using paper that wasn't suited to the ink I
    was using...

    I printed some 8x10s on Glossy OfficeMax Paper and the ink NEVER fully dried
    on that paper. (I think Office Max may now use a different supplier for their
    "house brand" paper)

    Though the prinst LOOKED dry, they were sticking to the glass and self
    destructing when I framed them.

    This was a full day after printing them. Investigation showed that the
    printed surface was still "tacky" even 48 hours after printing. These were
    prints done with a Canon S820, and an Epson 785 EPX BOTH using OEM ink.

    Pictures printed on My HP dried just fine on this paper.


    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
     
    Larry, Feb 9, 2005
    #17
  18. Bill Tuthill Guest

    rafe bustin <> wrote:
    >
    > I'm not defending Wilhelm particularly.
    > OTOH, I've seen ordinary dye ink prints
    > last a lot longer than anyone says they
    > ought to.


    Au contraire, I notice fading (especially cyan)
    within 2 years on Epson Photo Paper, less if exposed
    to direct sunlight, despite Wilhelm's 4 year rating.
    Heavyweight Matte shows better longevity.

    Maybe I'm just more sensitive to color than you.
     
    Bill Tuthill, Feb 9, 2005
    #18
  19. Ben Thomas Guest

    David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

    > Yes; one of the categories they give a rating for is "Album/dark
    > storage". For those conditions, *all* of the papers they tested the
    > Epson R800 with rate over 100 years, and most rate over 200 years.
    >
    > Since you say "right now", perhaps
    > <http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html> will be useful to
    > you later, or to other people.


    Thanks David.

    Is all their info only in PDF format? I've got 30MB of WWW access per month from
    work, and as there's no file size mentioned I'm reluctant to click on the link.

    --
    --
    Ben Thomas - Software Engineer - Melbourne, Australia

    My Digital World:
    Kodak DX6490, Canon i9950, Pioneer A05;
    Hitachi 37" HD plasma display, DGTEC 2000A,
    Denon 2800, H/K AVR4500, Whatmough Encore;
    Sony Ericsson K700i, Palm Tungsten T.

    Disclaimer:
    Opinions, conclusions, and other information in this message that do not
    relate to the official business of my employer shall be understood as neither
    given nor endorsed by it.
     
    Ben Thomas, Feb 9, 2005
    #19
  20. Travis Guest

    Ben Thomas wrote:
    > RSD99 wrote:
    >> "alacriti" posted:
    >> "...
    >> It would be nice to make something that would be around for the
    >> grandkids. ..."
    >>
    >> If so .. the Epson R800 uses the Ultrachrome pigmented inks. These
    >> are the closest thing to archival that anyone has come up with ...
    >> to date, anyway. Print life ratings seem to be well into the
    >> three-digit range.
    >>
    >> You can find out more at Wilhelm Imaging Research, Inc.
    >> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/
    >> An article and ratings on the R800 are at
    >> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/R800.html
    >> http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep_R800_2004_12_03.pdf
    >>
    >> Oh ... and FWIW: the tests I have seen for the Canon do not appear
    >> to be anywhere near as long.

    >
    > I don't have access to WWW right now, so can you tell me if those
    > links mention print longevity in an album (which is what the OP was
    > asking basically)?


    You have access to newsgroups but not the web? Weird!

    --

    Travis in Shoreline Washington
    Uses a Kodak DC4800
     
    Travis, Feb 9, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Only me

    Laser printer prints blanks but inkjet doesn't

    Only me, Sep 21, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    516
    SgtMinor
    Sep 21, 2004
  2. Harry

    Backprinting photo prints - inkjet or laserjet?

    Harry, Jan 19, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    1,474
    MPHunt
    Jan 25, 2004
  3. Bill Tuthill

    Durability of inkjet prints, photo prints

    Bill Tuthill, Apr 23, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    45
    Views:
    1,313
    Bill Hilton
    May 2, 2004
  4. texture on my inkjet photo prints

    , Oct 9, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    299
    Arthur Entlich
    Oct 12, 2005
  5. Jan
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    396
Loading...

Share This Page