Indy: changes to the movie?

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Scott P, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. Scott P

    Scott P Guest

    Hi all,

    I have read that they made some "clean ups" to Raiders of the Lost Ark
    for the DVD. One web site said 14 specific changes. I know they
    digitally erased the snake reflection, does anyone have a list of the
    other changes?

    Scott
    Scott P, Oct 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. Scott P

    jayembee Guest

    Scott P <> wrote:

    >I have read that they made some "clean ups" to Raiders of the Lost Ark
    >for the DVD. One web site said 14 specific changes. I know they
    >digitally erased the snake reflection, does anyone have a list of the
    >other changes?


    The Big Arab shoots first.

    -- jayembee
    jayembee, Oct 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. jayembee <> wrote in
    news::

    > Scott P <> wrote:
    >
    >>I have read that they made some "clean ups" to Raiders of the Lost Ark
    >>for the DVD. One web site said 14 specific changes. I know they
    >>digitally erased the snake reflection, does anyone have a list of the
    >>other changes?

    >
    > The Big Arab shoots first.
    >
    > -- jayembee
    >


    But not before Greedo.
    C. Montgomery Burns, Oct 22, 2003
    #3
  4. On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:30:29 GMT, jayembee
    <> wrote:

    >Scott P <> wrote:
    >
    >>I have read that they made some "clean ups" to Raiders of the Lost Ark
    >>for the DVD. One web site said 14 specific changes. I know they
    >>digitally erased the snake reflection, does anyone have a list of the
    >>other changes?

    >
    >The Big Arab shoots first.


    That's why I'm not going to buy this set. The Arab waving the sword
    aobut and Jones knowing his goose was cooked unless he took the
    initiative was one of the funniest things in the whole series. Lucas
    has no right to revise film history.

    ... Steve .

    P.S. I saw Star Wars in the cinema the day it premiered. The changes
    from that showing to the final theatrical cut also removed a lot of
    the humour, such as the guards calling on the gates to be closed as
    leia etc. dash through the death star so that they could be stopped,
    then calling on the doors to be opened again. The final cut just has
    the doors being called to be opened. Also the pace was slower without
    the wipe edits. -- Things like that...
    >
    >-- jayembee
    Steve(JazzHunter), Oct 22, 2003
    #4
  5. Scott P

    CLOSEDOWN8 Guest

    >That's why I'm not going to buy this set. The Arab waving the sword
    >aobut and Jones knowing his goose was cooked unless he took the
    >initiative was one of the funniest things in the whole series. Lucas
    >has no right to revise film history.


    Dude, he was joking. The Cairo swordsman doesn't shoot first. The only
    changes are small cosmetic touchups, nothing major, although I'm still not
    thrilled about any sort of revisionism.
    --------------------------------
    "That's the worst reverse-acting I've ever seen!" -Sam Raimi
    CLOSEDOWN8, Oct 22, 2003
    #5
  6. Scott P

    Mondo Kane Guest

    Re: Indy: changes to the movie? - Endurance!

    I've always admired Indy's long breath of oxygen(!) ...right after he
    puts himself on top of the descending submarine!

    Then we see the sub image blending in to the sea-map, with the sub shown
    heading toward the secret Nazi island!

    And when we see Indy again, he's already off the sub and in hiding (but
    not for long). NOW _THAT_ WAS ONE SUPER BREATH OF OXYGEN which supplied
    Indy during the sub's descent to the secret island.

    As [the Sage of South Central/LA] Larry Elder says... "Now Come'on!!
    ...What's that all about?"

    Mondo Kane
    Mondo Kane, Oct 22, 2003
    #6
  7. On 22 Oct 2003 05:05:14 GMT, mbleek (CLOSEDOWN8)
    wrote:

    >>That's why I'm not going to buy this set. The Arab waving the sword
    >>aobut and Jones knowing his goose was cooked unless he took the
    >>initiative was one of the funniest things in the whole series. Lucas
    >>has no right to revise film history.

    >
    >Dude, he was joking. The Cairo swordsman doesn't shoot first. The only
    >changes are small cosmetic touchups, nothing major, although I'm still not
    >thrilled about any sort of revisionism.


    Heheh, well I knew the Arab couldn't shoot at all, but I thought that
    Indy was supposed to have now been threatened more definitely, so him
    shooting was self-defence rather than saving face. IF that scene is
    indeed untouched, then I will buy the DVD set.

    I agree any sort of revisionism is a no-no. Lucas once made good
    films. Watching "Star Wars" (a New Hope) leaves one with a visceral
    feeling of having been in the presence of a film Masterpiece. Lucas
    no longer knows how to make films, so it is frightening that from his
    current perspective he should be altering what was so inalienably
    CORRECT in the first place.

    .. Steve ..
    >--------------------------------
    >"That's the worst reverse-acting I've ever seen!" -Sam Raimi
    Steve(JazzHunter), Oct 22, 2003
    #7
  8. Scott P

    Eric R. Guest

    mbleek (CLOSEDOWN8) wrote in message

    > Dude, he was joking. The Cairo swordsman doesn't shoot first.


    Thank God for Matt Stone and Trey Parker over at South Park.

    -Eric
    Eric R., Oct 22, 2003
    #8
  9. Re: Indy: changes to the movie? - Endurance!

    (Mondo Kane) writes:

    > I've always admired Indy's long breath of oxygen(!) ...right after he
    > puts himself on top of the descending submarine!
    >
    > Then we see the sub image blending in to the sea-map, with the sub shown
    > heading toward the secret Nazi island!
    >
    > And when we see Indy again, he's already off the sub and in hiding (but
    > not for long). NOW _THAT_ WAS ONE SUPER BREATH OF OXYGEN which supplied
    > Indy during the sub's descent to the secret island.
    >
    > As [the Sage of South Central/LA] Larry Elder says... "Now Come'on!!
    > ..What's that all about?"
    >
    > Mondo Kane
    >


    The subs don't submerge unless they are in battle/stealth mode. They
    had internal combustion engines which need air (unlike todays nuclear
    subs). You stay submerged to just travel you'll loose your air supply
    quickly for no reason.

    --
    Scott Streeter

    http://www.wpi.edu/~ss/
    Scott Streeter, Oct 22, 2003
    #9
  10. Re: Indy: changes to the movie? - Endurance!

    (Mondo Kane) wrote in message news:<>...
    > I've always admired Indy's long breath of oxygen(!) ...right after he
    > puts himself on top of the descending submarine!
    >
    > Then we see the sub image blending in to the sea-map, with the sub shown
    > heading toward the secret Nazi island!
    >
    > And when we see Indy again, he's already off the sub and in hiding (but
    > not for long). NOW _THAT_ WAS ONE SUPER BREATH OF OXYGEN which supplied
    > Indy during the sub's descent to the secret island.
    >
    > As [the Sage of South Central/LA] Larry Elder says... "Now Come'on!!
    > ..What's that all about?"
    >
    > Mondo Kane


    But does the sub really go underwater, or just get lower in the water?

    Before subs went nuclear, they used electric batteries underwater,
    and diesel engines while on the surface. The batteries had limited
    range, and needed to be recharged by the diesel engines. I seem
    to recall reading that there were some other limitations (in the oxygen
    area maybe) on how long those old subs could stay submerged, and
    they may even have moved faster on the surface.

    So, you'd submerge only when necessary, and do most of your
    travelling on the surface. They went to some obscure island, and
    so one could imagine they did not go that far.

    Keep in mind also, there was no war going on. There wasn't much
    reason to be hidden, though nothing is ever said about the piracy
    when they take the crate.

    So there may not have been any reason for them to submerge.

    Michael
    Michael Black, Oct 22, 2003
    #10
  11. Scott P

    Scott P Guest

    On 22 Oct 2003 05:05:14 GMT, mbleek (CLOSEDOWN8)
    wrote:

    >>That's why I'm not going to buy this set. The Arab waving the sword
    >>aobut and Jones knowing his goose was cooked unless he took the
    >>initiative was one of the funniest things in the whole series. Lucas
    >>has no right to revise film history.

    >
    >Dude, he was joking. The Cairo swordsman doesn't shoot first. The only
    >changes are small cosmetic touchups, nothing major, although I'm still not
    >thrilled about any sort of revisionism.
    >--------------------------------
    >"That's the worst reverse-acting I've ever seen!" -Sam Raimi


    I figured it was just little touch ups but does anyone know
    specifically what was done?

    Scott
    Scott P, Oct 23, 2003
    #11
  12. Scott P

    Dick Justice Guest

    "Scott P" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 22 Oct 2003 05:05:14 GMT, mbleek (CLOSEDOWN8)
    > wrote:
    >
    > >>That's why I'm not going to buy this set. The Arab waving the sword
    > >>aobut and Jones knowing his goose was cooked unless he took the
    > >>initiative was one of the funniest things in the whole series. Lucas
    > >>has no right to revise film history.

    > >
    > >Dude, he was joking. The Cairo swordsman doesn't shoot first. The only
    > >changes are small cosmetic touchups, nothing major, although I'm still

    not
    > >thrilled about any sort of revisionism.
    > >--------------------------------
    > >"That's the worst reverse-acting I've ever seen!" -Sam Raimi

    >
    > I figured it was just little touch ups but does anyone know
    > specifically what was done?
    >
    > Scott


    Can you still see the glass that shields Indy from the cobra? :}
    Dick Justice, Oct 23, 2003
    #12
  13. Scott P

    Davis Guest

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:07:53 -0400, "Steve(JazzHunter)"
    <> wrote:
    >>Dude, he was joking. The Cairo swordsman doesn't shoot first. The only
    >>changes are small cosmetic touchups, nothing major, although I'm still not
    >>thrilled about any sort of revisionism.

    >
    >Heheh, well I knew the Arab couldn't shoot at all, but I thought that
    >Indy was supposed to have now been threatened more definitely, so him
    >shooting was self-defence rather than saving face. IF that scene is
    >indeed untouched, then I will buy the DVD set.


    Well, if they edited guns into walkie-talkies for E.T. why couldn't
    they edit the Arab's sword into a gun?

    If people made such a revisionist comment about most other films,
    nobody would believe it, but if you say something outrageous like "the
    Arab shoots first" about George Lucas or Steven Spielberg you wonder
    if it's true because they are crazy enough to do it. Well, at least
    Spielberg can still make a decent movie if he wants to, but Lucas
    seems to have forgotten.

    I still think Raiders is one of the most perfectly directed movies of
    all time. If somebody asks me what I think the perfect choice of
    camera angles and movement is, I would say watch Raiders. The only two
    flaws I really noticed were the cobra reflection which was fixed and
    the stuntman falling off the front of the truck and bouncing off the
    platform (hopefully they fixed that too). Even though Kershner hasn't
    directed much, I thought Empire Strikes Back would also rank up there
    among the best directed movies. Plus I think both of these movies have
    the best musical scores of all time, along with E.T. and Ben-Hur, so
    it's no wonder I like them so much.

    If you want to see some of the worst directing ever, you could watch
    Charlie's Angels (by "McG") or Get Carter. I hate shaky direction or
    fast-edits. Raiders is my favorite best example of the right way to
    direct. I think Steven Spielberg, Robert Zemeckis, and James Cameron
    are the 3 most talented directors. Those are my opinions.
    Davis, Oct 23, 2003
    #13
  14. Scott P

    Wade365 Guest

    OK... but did they REALLY alter the scene with the swordsman or not?
    Wade365, Oct 23, 2003
    #14
  15. Scott P

    Mondo Kane Guest

    Well, if one wants to be a little critical of Spielberg's direction in
    RAIDERS, consider just how so very looooooong it takes during the
    opening cave scene for that special "trap door" to get from top to
    bottom... even though the viewer can clearly see how FAST it's sliding
    down!

    You know the scene: Indy needs the whip... Thug says "throw me the idol
    I give you the whip"... Indy throws idol... Thug lies, drops whip
    "adios" and leaves... Indy jumps forward to grab vine... starts pulling
    on vine... then vine quickly slackens and Indy slides furthur down in
    the open-ground floor... he pauses, then slowly climbs up the vine...
    gets up & over the floor barricade... then finally lunges forward and
    just makes it under the door(!), of course... pauses a sec to reach back
    and grab the fallen whip [gotta have it]... then stands up to find the
    Thug dead from hidden-spear impalement....

    NOW, while all of this is going on... that special top-to-bottom trap
    door is taking forever to close and seal off the cave! Somebody ought to
    measure the exact length of time it takes for that part of the scene - I
    bet it's at least 30 to 40 seconds... and at the speed Spielberg is
    showing the descending trap door you could close and raise it probably
    2-3 times!

    Still, I love Raiders for many reasons too -- especially the awesome
    brass instruments of the John Williams soundtrack (French Horns,
    Trumpets, Trombones, Tuba). I've got the entire Trilogy on Widescreen
    LaserDisc [viewed many times] and will wait until RAIDERS is sold
    seperately on DVD before I purchase it.

    Don't believe the marketing hype. RAIDERS will definitely be available
    for sale seperately within the next year. And I might just wait (and
    pass on it) until a future HD-DVD version appears -- remember HD-DVD
    will be here in the not-too-distant future... say 3 to 5 years perhaps?

    Mondo Kane
    Mondo Kane, Oct 23, 2003
    #15
  16. Re: Indy: changes to the movie? - Endurance!

    Michael Black wrote:
    > (Mondo Kane) wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >>I've always admired Indy's long breath of oxygen(!) ...right after he
    >>puts himself on top of the descending submarine!
    >>
    >>Then we see the sub image blending in to the sea-map, with the sub shown
    >>heading toward the secret Nazi island!
    >>
    >>And when we see Indy again, he's already off the sub and in hiding (but
    >>not for long). NOW _THAT_ WAS ONE SUPER BREATH OF OXYGEN which supplied
    >>Indy during the sub's descent to the secret island.
    >>
    >>As [the Sage of South Central/LA] Larry Elder says... "Now Come'on!!
    >>..What's that all about?"
    >>
    >>Mondo Kane

    >
    >
    > But does the sub really go underwater, or just get lower in the water?


    Well, one of the crew members shouts the command: "Tauchen, tauchen!" as in
    "Dive, dive!". But even if the sub didn't dive deep, being exposed to cold
    water combined with quite a cold breeze for a long time would render Indy a
    little more exhausted than he looked, probably even in need of an ICU.

    OTOH, it's a fun movie, so who cares... ;)

    l8er
    ronny
    Ronald Stoehr, Oct 23, 2003
    #16
  17. Scott P

    Peter Briggs Guest

    Re: Indy: changes to the movie? - Endurance!

    Ronald Stoehr <> wrote:

    > Well, one of the crew members shouts the command: "Tauchen, tauchen!" as in
    > "Dive, dive!". But even if the sub didn't dive deep, being exposed to cold
    > water combined with quite a cold breeze for a long time would render Indy a
    > little more exhausted than he looked, probably even in need of an ICU.
    >
    > OTOH, it's a fun movie, so who cares... ;)


    There is a still of the cut-scene in the "Making Of Raiders Of The Lost
    Ark" paperback. Indy basically lashes himself to the periscope (well,
    technically, snorkel, I suppose) and makes the journey to the island
    above water. (I once saw the infamous prop itself -- producer Robert
    Watts had it on a shelf behind the desk in his office at the late,
    lamented Elstree Studios)

    In the novelization paperback, there's a further description of
    this...with Indy trying not to fall asleep during the trip, trying to
    remember phone numbers of ex-girlfriends, while sharks circle the sub.
    Peter Briggs, Oct 23, 2003
    #17
  18. (Mondo Kane) writes:

    > Well, if one wants to be a little critical of Spielberg's direction in
    > RAIDERS, consider just how so very looooooong it takes during the
    > opening cave scene for that special "trap door" to get from top to
    > bottom... even though the viewer can clearly see how FAST it's sliding
    > down!


    Its not an error, its an old movie trick. Slowing down the time.
    Time in movies isn't absolute, its subjective and even can be
    turned backwards if several simultaneous events has to be shown.
    Watch any Bond movie scene which has a ticking bomb and its the
    same way. Its used to build up the tension. The Spy Who Loved Me
    might be the best place to start.

    --
    Paikka on varattu
    vali deille
    an uksille
    Pentti Lajunen, Oct 23, 2003
    #18
  19. "Dick Justice" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Scott P" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On 22 Oct 2003 05:05:14 GMT, mbleek (CLOSEDOWN8)
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >>That's why I'm not going to buy this set. The Arab waving the sword
    > > >>aobut and Jones knowing his goose was cooked unless he took the
    > > >>initiative was one of the funniest things in the whole series. Lucas
    > > >>has no right to revise film history.
    > > >
    > > >Dude, he was joking. The Cairo swordsman doesn't shoot first. The

    only
    > > >changes are small cosmetic touchups, nothing major, although I'm still

    > not
    > > >thrilled about any sort of revisionism.
    > > >--------------------------------
    > > >"That's the worst reverse-acting I've ever seen!" -Sam Raimi

    > >
    > > I figured it was just little touch ups but does anyone know
    > > specifically what was done?
    > >
    > > Scott

    >
    > Can you still see the glass that shields Indy from the cobra? :}


    No
    Raul Bloodworth, Oct 23, 2003
    #19
  20. Scott P

    Dennis Kuhn Guest

    Pentti Lajunen <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > (Mondo Kane) writes:
    >
    > > Well, if one wants to be a little critical of Spielberg's direction in
    > > RAIDERS, consider just how so very looooooong it takes during the
    > > opening cave scene for that special "trap door" to get from top to
    > > bottom... even though the viewer can clearly see how FAST it's sliding
    > > down!

    >
    > Its not an error, its an old movie trick. Slowing down the time.
    > Time in movies isn't absolute, its subjective and even can be
    > turned backwards if several simultaneous events has to be shown.
    > Watch any Bond movie scene which has a ticking bomb and its the
    > same way. Its used to build up the tension. The Spy Who Loved Me
    > might be the best place to start.



    I agree - I assumed it was a pretty plain nod to the old serials
    cliffhanger endings. In the end of episode 1, the door is sliding
    down, Sapito gets the idol, and we go to the end slate advertising
    episode 2. Next week, we show up at the cinema and Indy jumps across
    the pit, only to fall a little short, the door continues to drop...

    On a slightly different topic, I'm actually hoping someone will be
    able to post specific timecode on when you are supposed to be able to
    see Threepio and Artoo in heiroglyphics. I've been told a few times,
    "oh yeah, it's that cool scene where Indy falls into the snakes!
    You've gotta look closely, but it's there, dude!" Well, _I_ haven't
    seen it yet. Maybe with the cleaned up widescreen image I'll finally
    have a chance to see this easter egg. For the record, I _have_ seen a
    closeup photo of the heiroglyphs in a novel-sized paperback behind the
    scenes book... way back in the 80's.

    Dennis
    Dennis Kuhn, Oct 23, 2003
    #20
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