In response to Setfocus.com; The MCSD delusion

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by classified public, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. For your review: http://www.setfocus.com

    I can pick up development languages on my own. Learning is not at all the problem.

    The problem is obtaining and keeping a long term position where I can gain experience and get "ahead" of the learning curve.

    The true test of any training, including Setfocus.com, is how long the trainee has continuous employment in a premium paying type of job. Could you guarantee a year? How about two years or three. It would be a holy grail and a virtual promised land, milk and honey and Saab 9-3s galore.

    On the contrary, I am about to go bankrupt because I took a position in New Jersey for even less pay than my first job hoping to jump-start my ..NET career and get into the higher paying arena. I paid at least $300 a month in gas to get to work. And, the employers today are constantly figuring out new ways to cut into programmer wages, third-party companies being the first idea and then outsourcing to India and now China (since they signed an agreement to more actively reduce software piracy) another, and would you believe it, having employees to share in paying business related expenses. Yes, it really happened ... to me.

    My first job in software was "fun". Because I was doing something new and it felt like very few people had the kind of talent to do the work. Now, I know better! Anybody with a pulse can do programming. So, as far as economic theory goes, supply is far outpacing demand.

    I obtained my MCSD on .NET because in my mind, it would mean that I had finally reached the "high ground" above the flood in the programming world. Not so fast my .NET friend. I really did learn how to do this stuff. And, I'm a very diligent worker. But, I can read the writing on the wall, especially since it is in bold face, colored red, in italics and sized 500 point, you should have become a doctor. The medical field is booming. The baby boomers are the new gold, and medical school is your shovel.

    All I ever wanted was a Saab 9-3, a two car garage and big backyard to have fun. What happened?

    Shucks!
    classified public, MCSD.NET, MCAD.NET . CompTIA A+
     
    classified public, Jul 26, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. classified public

    CaffieneRush Guest

    > All I ever wanted was a Saab 9-3, a two car garage and big backyard to have fun.

    Is that all?
    Please don't tell me that you got your dream car and house right after
    getting your first .Net job.

    And what makes you think the doctors labor market is any different from
    the developers labor market? Sure the 'work' cannot be sent overseas
    but do you think that HMOs, hospitals and clinics cannot import foreign
    doctors to address the growing heathcare demand?

    So think before you rush off to get your next 'shovel' or you'll be
    crying at your local medical newsgroup in a few years time about
    overseas doctors, low pay and high debt.

    classified public wrote:
    > For your review: http://www.setfocus.com
    >
    > I can pick up development languages on my own. Learning is not at all the problem.
    >
    > The problem is obtaining and keeping a long term position where I can gain experience and get "ahead" of the learning curve.
    >
    > The true test of any training, including Setfocus.com, is how long the trainee has continuous employment in a premium paying type of job. Could you guarantee a year? How about two years or three. It would be a holy grail and a virtual promised land, milk and honey and Saab 9-3s galore.
    >
    > On the contrary, I am about to go bankrupt because I took a position in New Jersey for even less pay than my first job hoping to jump-start my .NET career and get into the higher paying arena. I paid at least $300 a month in gas to get to work. And, the employers today are constantly figuring out new ways to cut into programmer wages, third-party companies being the first idea and then outsourcing to India and now China (since they signed an agreement to more actively reduce software piracy) another, and would you believe it, having employees to share in paying business related expenses. Yes, it really happened ... to me.
    >
    > My first job in software was "fun". Because I was doing something new and it felt like very few people had the kind of talent to do the work. Now, I know better! Anybody with a pulse can do programming. So, as far as economic theory goes, supply is far outpacing demand.
    >
    > I obtained my MCSD on .NET because in my mind, it would mean that I had finally reached the "high ground" above the flood in the programming world. Not so fast my .NET friend. I really did learn how to do this stuff. And, I'm a very diligent worker. But, I can read the writing on the wall, especially since it is in bold face, colored red, in italics and sized 500 point, you should have become a doctor. The medical field is booming. The baby boomers are the new gold, and medical school is your shovel.
    >
    > All I ever wanted was a Saab 9-3, a two car garage and big backyard to have fun. What happened?
    >
    > Shucks!
    > classified public, MCSD.NET, MCAD.NET . CompTIA A+
    >
    > ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C6B046.81C1F850
    > Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
    > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    > X-Google-AttachSize: 4324
    >
    > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
    > <HTML><HEAD>
    > <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
    > <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2912" name=GENERATOR>
    > <STYLE></STYLE>
    > </HEAD>
    > <BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>For your review:&nbsp; <A
    > href="http://www.setfocus.com">http://www.setfocus.com</A></FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>I can pick up development
    > languages on my own.&nbsp; Learning&nbsp;is not at all the problem.</FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>The problem is obtaining and
    > keeping a long term position where I can gain experience and get "ahead" of the
    > learning curve.</FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>The true test of any
    > training,&nbsp;including Setfocus.com, is how long the trainee&nbsp;has
    > continuous employment in a premium paying type of job.&nbsp; Could you guarantee
    > a year?&nbsp; How about two years or three.&nbsp; It would be a holy grail and a
    > virtual promised land, milk and honey and Saab 9-3s galore.</FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>On the contrary, I am about to go
    > bankrupt because I took a position in New Jersey for even less pay than my first
    > job hoping to jump-start my .NET career and get into the higher paying
    > arena.&nbsp; I&nbsp;paid at least $300 a month in gas to get to work.&nbsp; And,
    > the employers today are constantly figuring out new ways to cut into programmer
    > wages, third-party companies being the first idea and then outsourcing to India
    > and now China (since they signed an agreement to more actively reduce software
    > piracy) another, and would you believe it, having employees to share in paying
    > business related expenses.&nbsp; Yes, it really happened ...&nbsp;to
    > me.</FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>My first job in software was
    > "fun".&nbsp; Because I was doing something new and it felt like very few people
    > had the kind of talent to do the work.&nbsp; Now, I know better!&nbsp; Anybody
    > with a pulse can do programming.&nbsp; So,&nbsp;as far as&nbsp;economic theory
    > goes, supply is far outpacing demand.</FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>I obtained my MCSD on .NET because
    > in my mind, it would mean that I had finally reached the "high ground" above the
    > flood&nbsp;in the programming world.&nbsp; Not so fast my .NET friend.&nbsp; I
    > really did learn how to do this stuff.&nbsp; And, I'm a very diligent
    > worker.&nbsp; But, I can read the writing on the wall, especially since it is in
    > bold face, colored red, in italics&nbsp; and sized 500 point, you should have
    > become a doctor.&nbsp; The medical field is booming.&nbsp; The baby boomers are
    > the new gold, and medical school is your shovel.</FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>All I ever wanted was a Saab 9-3,
    > a two car garage and big backyard to have fun.&nbsp; What happened?</FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    > <DIV><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=2>Shucks!</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
    > <DIV>
    > <P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif"><SPAN
    > style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT size=2>classified public,
    > </FONT></SPAN><EM><I><FONT color=#ff033 size=1><SPAN
    > style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt">MCSD.NET, MCAD.NET</SPAN></FONT><SPAN
    > style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt"><FONT size=1> </FONT></FONT><FONT
    > face="Microsoft Sans Serif" size=1>·</FONT><FONT face="Microsoft Sans Serif"
    > size=1> <FONT color=#ff033><SPAN>CompTIA
    > A+</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></I></EM></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
    >
    > ------=_NextPart_000_0155_01C6B046.81C1F850--
     
    CaffieneRush, Jul 26, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Attention SKULL AND BONES and wannabes worldwide...

    Please walk out in traffic George Bush, jealous of Bill Clinton because you can't get a blow job, corporate welfare bumming, oil guzzling, outsourcing, export your products, saving fetuses but declaring war every five minutes, and fight terrorist Islam !!!

    I got a car that I dream the "American Dream" in, but I definitely don't have a dream car.

    Importing foreign workers ... I never thought of that. Brilliant. And, chalk one up for you and all the rich people everywhere.

    Still, it doesn't hurt the economy as much as outsourcing, at least the "imported" worker's wealth is earned inside the country and likely to help the economy through domestic spending.

    That is all I'm trying to point out my .NET friend.

    Besides all that, I'm starting to hate your beloved Information Technology labor market. I hate head hunters. I hate not having access to group health insurance.

    Hey, George Bush ... When Are You Going To Stop The Bull Shit?
    > All I ever wanted was a Saab 9-3, a two car garage and big backyard to have fun.


    Is that all?
    Please don't tell me that you got your dream car and house right after
    getting your first .Net job.

    And what makes you think the doctors labor market is any different from
    the developers labor market? Sure the 'work' cannot be sent overseas
    but do you think that HMOs, hospitals and clinics cannot import foreign
    doctors to address the growing heathcare demand?

    So think before you rush off to get your next 'shovel' or you'll be
    crying at your local medical newsgroup in a few years time about
    overseas doctors, low pay and high debt.
     
    classified public, Jul 27, 2006
    #3
  4. classified public

    I_love_yorkies

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Setfocus phone call

    A friend of mine was looking for a job. He got laid off and has been unemployed for a year. He stumbled on Setfocus "job advertisement" on Career Builder. He went through some online tests with them (passed them all), got tired and called me to verify if they are "kosher" before he wasted any additional time. I went through their website and found no useful information. I search the Net and all could find were either PR newsletters or very biased opinions against Setfocus. I got confused and decided to call the company myself.
    The following is a transcript of the call:

    - Setfocus, this is Amanda.
    - Hi, Amanda. I saw your job posting for a SQL Server DBA in Atlanta. What part of Atlanta and how much does the job pay?
    - Well, sir, actually its a great placement opportunity with Setfocus. We train you and find you a position with our pool of exclusive clients. Your job placement is 100% guaranteed and consists of two choices. Here is what you have to do. Go to our website at..
    - Let me interrupt you. So, I will be working for setfocus?
    - Yes, if you want to!
    - No, I don't want to. I'd rather just get paid. Just kidding. So, when you say “placement opportunity” you mean you don't have a job for me, correct?
    - No, you have a 100% guaranteed placement. We have an exclusive pool of Fortune 500 companies.
    - Are you telling me that Fortune 500 companies have fired their entire HR departments and stopped interviewing vendor certified professionals with proven track records and instead are just idly waiting for your fresh graduates who never held any real position in a field? That does not make any sense.
    - Well, they know how well our graduates are prepared. They are better than all other certified professionals. Our reputation is impeccable. You can Google us – you will find a lot of positive articles about Setfocus.
    - Can I have a list of contacts for these Fortune 500 companies? I would like to ask them if they would hire me right after I graduate Setfocus. If 3 out 5 will say yes, I will sign up with you immediately.
    - Sorry, we don’t give out this information.
    - Why not?
    - We just don’t. Are you ready for the website URL?
    - I have not decided yet. I want to ask some questions first. So, the companies are just dying get their hands on your graduates?
    - Yes, they are. Search the Internet and you will see.
    - Is that why you stopped charging employers the finders fee and charge students instead? Too much money is bad for business?
    - Oh, you are talking about “available graduates pool” fee? This was done to give our students even more placement choices after graduating.
    - Fine. Lets leave that aside. How much does this cost? I heard it costs $17K. Is that true?
    - No, we have even more extensive curriculum now. It is only $19,000.
    - That is a lot of money. I have to tell you, I am a Microsoft certified DBA, which is a sought after vendor certification, and that cost me only $4K total. OK, lets say your “nobody-has-ever-heard-of” certification is more credible than Micrososft’s. What is the additional $15K for?
    - Extensive knowledge and training. You will be 100% focused…
    - I don’t need to pay somebody $19K to get focused. Allright, lets say you have the best instructors and they got me all focused up and I graduated. Lets say your exclusive client Morgan Stanley fought JP Morgan to hire me, won and I am a DBA with that firm. Do you deduct the $19K from my paycheck in increments after you place me? How much is it – per month?
    - No, that is the beauty of it! You have a whole year before you start paying off.
    - Why wait a year? I thought your graduates are placed the next day.
    - Sometimes even before graduating!
    - Even before graduating? How about that! So, I am sure I’ll be making $150K at Morgan Stanley. Why not bill me as soon as you place me – the next day? Why wait a year?
    - Sir, I have a meeting in a few minutes. Do you need the URL or not?
    - Not just yet. I am even more confused than when I dialed your number. Lets see. Hmm... Can I get your legal contract? I would like to read it before I decide if all of this makes any sense.
    - Well, once again, what you have to do first is to fill out our online form, somebody will contact you, you will go through some tests…
    - All I am asking is your service contract. It should clearly describe your services and my obligations. Couldn’t be easier! You do have a contract, don't you?
    - Sir, you have to pass the tests first. The tests will only take seven hours. They are completely free! I am sorry, Sir, but I really have a meeting to go to. You can try the tests at …
    - No need, Amanda. So far I have not heard a single compelling reason to sign up with Setfocus for nineteen dollars, not to mention nineteen thousand. I am sure you have great people both teaching and learning, but what I have heard from you today makes no sense whatsoever.
    - Goodbye, sir.
    - Have a nice day, madam.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2008
    I_love_yorkies, Jul 7, 2008
    #4
  5. classified public

    ArcaneKnight

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    been there done that

    i've taken classes from setfocus previously. i went though their whole course.

    they really don't offer you much more than just learning the information in a rush type environment. you have 3 months to learn whatever course you are taking.

    i took my class with about 15 people or so and after graduation i believe there was only 4 people who got jobs..that doesn't sound like 100% placement to me within 3 months of graduation.

    i was one of the lucky ones to get a job and basically i had to do my own searching for the job and found it myself. they said they had connections and i was unable to find that after graduation. they gave me some names, e-mails and when i tried to contact these people they really didn't get back with me.

    it costs 17k+ (heard it has increased) to take the course OR you can go to setfocus (will probably cost you around $3000 or so for 3 months stay and all that) and take the course..then you work for them for a lower pay. you have the option of opting out of this contract after you graduate but you have to pay more $ than what you initially paid.

    so was set focus worth it?

    for me..i got a job within 2 months of graduation. however, i was lucky because the company i work for was looking for 2 things (IT and a background in something else) and they were willing to train me up and pay me at the same time. most people were frustrated by setfocus that took the course with me. they were upset and angry since they weren't able to pick things things fast enough and i believe most of them had a very difficult time getting a job after graduation.

    the teachers there are nice and they want to help you learn..however, i think everything is done in such a rush manner that its difficult to pick things up. $17k+ for 3 months is too much..if it was for a longer duration..then i would understand.

    if you have any questions feel free to send me an e-mail at forgottentruths9 for yahoo.com
     
    ArcaneKnight, Dec 7, 2008
    #5
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Deena
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,626
    Wray Smallwood
    Jun 29, 2003
  2. Cindy Winegarden
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,163
    Cindy Winegarden
    Jun 29, 2003
  3. Davin
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,200
    Davin
    Jun 30, 2003
  4. Georges

    MCSD vs MCSD.net

    Georges, Jul 18, 2003, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,085
    Georges
    Jul 18, 2003
  5. Maria

    MCSD vs MCSD.net

    Maria, Jul 18, 2003, in forum: MCSD
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    983
    Maria
    Jul 18, 2003
Loading...

Share This Page