image backup software

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Gaz, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. Gaz

    Gaz Guest

    Hi, I require some software that will:

    - create an image of a customers hard disk/installation with minimal fuss
    and minimal installation.
    - Allow image to be burnt onto CD-R / DVD -r
    - CD -r / DVD -r to be bootable
    - For bootable cd /dvd with image to be run with minimal user interaction.


    Software must exist to allow this, most, if not all major PC builders now
    create recovery / restore CDs which do this....

    Norton Ghost seems very fiddly, requiring two floppies, and the CD, with
    numerous swaps...

    Anyone suggest an alternative?

    Gaz
     
    Gaz, Jul 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. Gaz

    Simon G Guest

    Norton Ghost would be the kiddie, just configure the boot floppy to
    automatically look for the backup file from a cd/dvd and then re-install it.

    By the way, you do know its against the T&C of the Operating System license?

    Cheers
    Simon
     
    Simon G, Jul 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. Gaz

    Craven Birds Guest

    "Gaz" <> wrote in message news:...
    > Hi, I require some software that will:
    >
    > - create an image of a customers hard disk/installation with minimal fuss
    > and minimal installation.
    > - Allow image to be burnt onto CD-R / DVD -r
    > - CD -r / DVD -r to be bootable
    > - For bootable cd /dvd with image to be run with minimal user interaction.
    >
    >
    > Software must exist to allow this, most, if not all major PC builders now
    > create recovery / restore CDs which do this....
    >
    > Norton Ghost seems very fiddly, requiring two floppies, and the CD, with
    > numerous swaps...
    >
    > Anyone suggest an alternative?



    No! Ghost will do the job. Please tell me why 2 floppies are needed.

    Are you providing "customers" with illegal software by chance?
    --
    Regards,
    Chris
    --
    Bird sightings based around 'Craven' Skipton, North Yorks.
    http://www.craven-birds.co.uk/
     
    Craven Birds, Jul 13, 2004
    #3
  4. Gaz

    Gaz Guest

    "Simon G" <> wrote in message
    news:20040712204708.708$...
    > Norton Ghost would be the kiddie, just configure the boot floppy to
    > automatically look for the backup file from a cd/dvd and then re-install

    it.
    >
    > By the way, you do know its against the T&C of the Operating System

    license?

    To create a recovery disk for a customers own PC, not to be used by anyone
    else? Uhm.... It sounds like one of those technicalities, such as VCRs,
    recording TV breaking copyright......

    I was looking for a complete solution, ie, turn PC on, put CD in, and click
    yes. The manual with ghost seems a bit fuzzy.

    Gaz

    > Cheers
    > Simon
    >
    >
     
    Gaz, Jul 13, 2004
    #4
  5. Gaz

    Gaz Guest

    "Craven Birds" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Gaz" <> wrote in message

    news:...
    > > Hi, I require some software that will:
    > >
    > > - create an image of a customers hard disk/installation with minimal

    fuss
    > > and minimal installation.
    > > - Allow image to be burnt onto CD-R / DVD -r
    > > - CD -r / DVD -r to be bootable
    > > - For bootable cd /dvd with image to be run with minimal user

    interaction.
    > >
    > >
    > > Software must exist to allow this, most, if not all major PC builders

    now
    > > create recovery / restore CDs which do this....
    > >
    > > Norton Ghost seems very fiddly, requiring two floppies, and the CD, with
    > > numerous swaps...
    > >
    > > Anyone suggest an alternative?

    >
    >
    > No! Ghost will do the job. Please tell me why 2 floppies are needed.
    >
    > Are you providing "customers" with illegal software by chance?


    Erm, no, where do I suggest that? I own a PC repair business, and thinking
    of means to offer an extra service for my customers. For an extra sum, I
    will ghost their system onto a cd or dvd, for them to return their PC to a
    state where I left it (usually a lot better then when i got it!!!). By no
    means was i requiring a means to install illegal software, if it wish to i
    am perfectly able to do that.

    The reason why i was requiring two floppies, I was attempting to create a
    bootable CD, the norton wizard suggested that it was able to automatically
    create a bootable CD for me, I assumed this would be a completly bootable
    CD, ie, containing the image, the cd boot files, and an automated ghost.exe
    to look for the cd image, requiring minimal user interaction.

    What i found was an absurd swap process.

    Gaz

    > --
    > Regards,
    > Chris
    > --
    > Bird sightings based around 'Craven' Skipton, North Yorks.
    > http://www.craven-birds.co.uk/
    >
    >
     
    Gaz, Jul 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Gaz

    Rob Morley Guest

    In article <>, "Gaz" says...
    > Hi, I require some software that will:
    >
    > - create an image of a customers hard disk/installation with minimal fuss
    > and minimal installation.
    > - Allow image to be burnt onto CD-R / DVD -r
    > - CD -r / DVD -r to be bootable
    > - For bootable cd /dvd with image to be run with minimal user interaction.
    >
    >
    > Software must exist to allow this, most, if not all major PC builders now
    > create recovery / restore CDs which do this....
    >
    > Norton Ghost seems very fiddly, requiring two floppies, and the CD, with
    > numerous swaps...
    >
    > Anyone suggest an alternative?
    >

    You could do it with a minimal Linux installation but it would take a
    bit of tweaking on your part to get it set up.
     
    Rob Morley, Jul 13, 2004
    #6
  7. Gaz

    John Loop Guest

    "Gaz" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "Craven Birds" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > "Gaz" <> wrote in message

    > news:...
    > > > Hi, I require some software that will:
    > > >
    > > > - create an image of a customers hard disk/installation with minimal

    > fuss
    > > > and minimal installation.
    > > > - Allow image to be burnt onto CD-R / DVD -r
    > > > - CD -r / DVD -r to be bootable
    > > > - For bootable cd /dvd with image to be run with minimal user

    > interaction.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Software must exist to allow this, most, if not all major PC builders

    > now
    > > > create recovery / restore CDs which do this....
    > > >
    > > > Norton Ghost seems very fiddly, requiring two floppies, and the CD,

    with
    > > > numerous swaps...
    > > >
    > > > Anyone suggest an alternative?

    > >
    > >
    > > No! Ghost will do the job. Please tell me why 2 floppies are needed.
    > >
    > > Are you providing "customers" with illegal software by chance?

    >
    > Erm, no, where do I suggest that? I own a PC repair business, and thinking
    > of means to offer an extra service for my customers. For an extra sum, I
    > will ghost their system onto a cd or dvd, for them to return their PC to a
    > state where I left it (usually a lot better then when i got it!!!). By no
    > means was i requiring a means to install illegal software, if it wish to i
    > am perfectly able to do that.
    >
    > The reason why i was requiring two floppies, I was attempting to create a
    > bootable CD, the norton wizard suggested that it was able to automatically
    > create a bootable CD for me, I assumed this would be a completly bootable
    > CD, ie, containing the image, the cd boot files, and an automated

    ghost.exe
    > to look for the cd image, requiring minimal user interaction.
    >
    > What i found was an absurd swap process.
    >
    > Gaz
    >
    > > --
    > > Regards,
    > > Chris
    > > --
    > > Bird sightings based around 'Craven' Skipton, North Yorks.
    > > http://www.craven-birds.co.uk/
    > >
    > >

    >
    >

    This is an excellent approach - I do it all the time.
    Create a special partition for these at the top of the disk using partition
    magic, e.g.. I use these for my customers, my kids, etc, when I have to
    restore a PC once they have totally screwed it up. Of course I try to teach
    them about backup....... But at least it gives me a way to restore a PC
    without spending all day with restore/windows update/app install, etc.

    Another very useful technique is to have Linux run on a partition. It will
    come with "partimage" which is open source imging software.
    Just boot to Linux and save the XP partition.

    John--
    www.pccitizen.com Safe Computing, Home wired and wireless networking tips.
    ....You spend your whole life figuring out what you should have done with it,
    let alone what it was all about. And then your children get to do it all
    over again..
     
    John Loop, Jul 13, 2004
    #7
  8. Gaz

    John Loop Guest

    "Gaz" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "Craven Birds" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > "Gaz" <> wrote in message

    > news:...
    > > > Hi, I require some software that will:
    > > >
    > > > - create an image of a customers hard disk/installation with minimal

    > fuss
    > > > and minimal installation.
    > > > - Allow image to be burnt onto CD-R / DVD -r
    > > > - CD -r / DVD -r to be bootable
    > > > - For bootable cd /dvd with image to be run with minimal user

    > interaction.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Software must exist to allow this, most, if not all major PC builders

    > now
    > > > create recovery / restore CDs which do this....
    > > >
    > > > Norton Ghost seems very fiddly, requiring two floppies, and the CD,

    with
    > > > numerous swaps...
    > > >
    > > > Anyone suggest an alternative?

    > >
    > >
    > > No! Ghost will do the job. Please tell me why 2 floppies are needed.
    > >
    > > Are you providing "customers" with illegal software by chance?

    >
    > Erm, no, where do I suggest that? I own a PC repair business, and thinking
    > of means to offer an extra service for my customers. For an extra sum, I
    > will ghost their system onto a cd or dvd, for them to return their PC to a
    > state where I left it (usually a lot better then when i got it!!!). By no
    > means was i requiring a means to install illegal software, if it wish to i
    > am perfectly able to do that.
    >
    > The reason why i was requiring two floppies, I was attempting to create a
    > bootable CD, the norton wizard suggested that it was able to automatically
    > create a bootable CD for me, I assumed this would be a completly bootable
    > CD, ie, containing the image, the cd boot files, and an automated

    ghost.exe
    > to look for the cd image, requiring minimal user interaction.
    >
    > What i found was an absurd swap process.
    >
    > Gaz
    >
    > > --
    > > Regards,
    > > Chris
    > > --
    > > Bird sightings based around 'Craven' Skipton, North Yorks.
    > > http://www.craven-birds.co.uk/
    > >
    > >

    >
    >

    Or boot knoppix - I think it has partimage as well.....
    J--
    www.pccitizen.com Safe Computing, Home wired and wireless networking tips.
    ....You spend your whole life figuring out what you should have done with it,
    let alone what it was all about. And then your children get to do it all
    over again..
     
    John Loop, Jul 13, 2004
    #8
  9. Gaz

    SimonG Ltd. Guest

    "Gaz" <> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "Craven Birds" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > "Gaz" <> wrote in message

    > news:...
    > > > Hi, I require some software that will:
    > > >
    > > > - create an image of a customers hard disk/installation with minimal

    > fuss
    > > > and minimal installation.
    > > > - Allow image to be burnt onto CD-R / DVD -r
    > > > - CD -r / DVD -r to be bootable
    > > > - For bootable cd /dvd with image to be run with minimal user

    > interaction.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Software must exist to allow this, most, if not all major PC builders

    > now
    > > > create recovery / restore CDs which do this....
    > > >
    > > > Norton Ghost seems very fiddly, requiring two floppies, and the CD,

    with
    > > > numerous swaps...
    > > >
    > > > Anyone suggest an alternative?

    > >
    > >
    > > No! Ghost will do the job. Please tell me why 2 floppies are needed.
    > >
    > > Are you providing "customers" with illegal software by chance?

    >
    > Erm, no, where do I suggest that? I own a PC repair business, and thinking
    > of means to offer an extra service for my customers. For an extra sum, I
    > will ghost their system onto a cd or dvd, for them to return their PC to a
    > state where I left it (usually a lot better then when i got it!!!). By no
    > means was i requiring a means to install illegal software, if it wish to i
    > am perfectly able to do that.
    >
    > The reason why i was requiring two floppies, I was attempting to create a
    > bootable CD, the norton wizard suggested that it was able to automatically
    > create a bootable CD for me, I assumed this would be a completly bootable
    > CD, ie, containing the image, the cd boot files, and an automated

    ghost.exe
    > to look for the cd image, requiring minimal user interaction.
    >
    > What i found was an absurd swap process.
    >


    Ghost will do it but to be legal you will need a license for each image you
    make . . i.e. for each customer. You can make a bootable floppy and then
    use this to make a bootable CD in Nero with Ghost on it . . . I think what
    you are trying to do is going to be more hassle than it is worth . . . using
    Ghost that is. Now if you could find a freeeware package that does the same
    .. . . if you do let me know.

    regards, SimonG
     
    SimonG Ltd., Jul 13, 2004
    #9
  10. Gaz

    Simon G Guest

    >Ghost will do it but to be legal you will need a license for each image you
    make . . i.e. for each customer.

    As per Microsoft, it is not legal to make a backup of an operating system
    with a tool like Ghost or anything similar. The only people allowed to do
    this are the Big Boys (Dell, Gateway , Compaq etc)

    Just thought I would share this info.

    Cheers
    Simon
     
    Simon G, Jul 13, 2004
    #10
  11. Simon G posted:

    > > Ghost will do it but to be legal you will need a license for each
    > > image you

    > make . . i.e. for each customer.
    >
    > As per Microsoft, it is not legal to make a backup of an operating
    > system with a tool like Ghost or anything similar. The only people
    > allowed to do this are the Big Boys (Dell, Gateway , Compaq etc)
    >
    > Just thought I would share this info.
    >


    Does that apply under EC law?

    --
    Paul-B

    "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
    - Mario Andretti

    Reply to address is spam-trap. Use paul at streetka dot biz if you
    really must!
     
    Paul-B - the original and the best!, Jul 13, 2004
    #11
  12. Gaz

    Simon G Guest

    > Does that apply under EC law?

    A Grey area, however I run a small business myself and would not want to
    take on Microsoft if they came knocking on my door.

    And just to put it in perspective a good friend of mine got a letter stamped
    from the USA from Paramount asking him to stop downloading movies from the
    internet (This was his fourth film download in total - ever.) The letter
    named the time, movie name, and also his ISP details (which all matched up)
    and this was enough to stop him from downloading any more.

    I thought it was a wind up as he is not a big time crook ar anything,
    however the letter was geniune (I called the number on the front and spoke
    to someone at Paramont to confirm this as I thought it was a wind up).
    Certainly put the creeps up my mate, and me for that matter.

    Although a different situation, the moral is "never think that you are
    immune from a large company as Microsoft, even if the law is on your side".

    They have enough money to take you to cort and lose, do you?

    Its your business at the end of the day.

    Cheers
    Simon
     
    Simon G, Jul 13, 2004
    #12
  13. Gaz

    no66y© Guest

    "Simon G" wrote in message
    > Although a different situation, the moral is "never think that you are
    > immune from a large company as Microsoft, even if the law is on your

    side".

    which just goes to show what M$ thinks of the general computer user.


    --
    No66y©
    Those who find they're touched by madness
    Sit down next to me

    Reply to address is a spam trap.
    Use no66y [at] breathe [dot] com
     
    no66y©, Jul 13, 2004
    #13
  14. Gaz

    Alex Fraser Guest

    "Simon G" <> wrote in message
    news:20040713132949.554$...
    > >Ghost will do it but to be legal you will need a license for each image
    > >you make . . i.e. for each customer.

    >
    > As per Microsoft, it is not legal to make a backup of an operating system
    > with a tool like Ghost or anything similar. The only people allowed to do
    > this are the Big Boys (Dell, Gateway , Compaq etc)


    Really? Games aside, the licence for most software I've seen expressly
    permits backups, but (of course) prohibits any distribution.

    Legality aside, why should MS care?

    There is also the question of whether it is legal to distribute the images
    and image-writing software with a single-user licence of Ghost (or any
    equivalent).

    Alex
     
    Alex Fraser, Jul 13, 2004
    #14
  15. Gaz

    SimonG Ltd. Guest

    "Simon G" <> wrote in message
    news:20040713132949.554$...
    > >Ghost will do it but to be legal you will need a license for each image

    you
    > make . . i.e. for each customer.
    >
    > As per Microsoft, it is not legal to make a backup of an operating system
    > with a tool like Ghost or anything similar. The only people allowed to do
    > this are the Big Boys (Dell, Gateway , Compaq etc)
    >
    > Just thought I would share this info.
    >

    So are you saying that I can't make a backup for disaster recovery purposes
    ? maybe by using a tool like Veritas Backup Exec ? Can you give us a link
    to a Microsoft web page that confirms what you are saying, I would be quite
    interested to read what they have to say . . .

    regards, SimonG
     
    SimonG Ltd., Jul 13, 2004
    #15
  16. Gaz

    Paul Hopwood Guest

    "Simon G" <> wrote:

    >>Ghost will do it but to be legal you will need a license for each image you

    >make . . i.e. for each customer.


    >As per Microsoft, it is not legal to make a backup of an operating system
    >with a tool like Ghost or anything similar. The only people allowed to do
    >this are the Big Boys (Dell, Gateway , Compaq etc)


    >Just thought I would share this info.


    Nonsense!

    You're entitled to make backups of your system; OS, applications and
    all. In fact, most licenses explicitly state that to be the case.

    What you're NOT allowed to do is distribute any copy you make of the
    software.

    You can even carry out a full backup, in theory, with the backup
    utility bundled with any modern version of Windows and there are many
    TechNet articles with instruct users to do so before or as part of
    some procedures.

    Were was you claim to be true you wouldn't find *any* business using
    Windows Servers and pretty much anyone running them now is, according
    to you, breaking the law!

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
     
    Paul Hopwood, Jul 14, 2004
    #16
  17. Gaz

    Simon G Guest

    > So are you saying that I can't make a backup for disaster recovery
    purposes
    > ? maybe by using a tool like Veritas Backup Exec ? Can you give us a

    link
    > to a Microsoft web page that confirms what you are saying, I would be

    quite interested to read what they have to say . . .

    Personal backup, yes, but thats not what the OP wanted.

    Taken from the original post:

    " Hi, I require some software that will.....create an image of a customers
    hard disk/installation with minimal fuss and minimal installation."

    You cannot make a backup copy of a customers Windows operating system using
    any program whatsoever for the purpose of re-installing the backup at a
    later date.

    Microsoft state (in their System Builder section on the site - I cannot link
    to as you have to be a member to access the page):

    (Admitedly this is for OEM software, however the rules are the same for all
    verisons of Windows as it infringes the original copyright)

    Can I create my own recovery disks and sell these with the computer systems
    that I build?
    No. Any unauthorized reproduction of Microsoft software, even for recovery
    disks, infringes Microsoft's copyright, is illegal and can result in civil
    and criminal liability.

    The Microsoft OEM System Builder License does not permit reproduction of
    Microsoft software. A full version of the Windows operating system is
    provided on a CD in the Microsoft System Builder Pack for each end user, and
    the CD is transferred to the end user at the time of sale. The hologram CD
    acts as the System Builder recovery media. This not only streamlines the
    distribution process, it also helps fight piracy.

    Larger OEMs who have a direct agreement with Microsoft may make recovery
    media for the purpose of distribution to end users only. They are also
    required to bear the cost of replication, and are responsible for any piracy
    that occurs as a result of replication.

    Note: Most OEM System Builder software CDs are hologram CDs. Instead of
    printed text, the CD has a hologram etched into the surface of the CD. When
    tilted in the light, the hologram (a three-dimensional image) displays a
    product name and product specific graphics on the surface of the CD.

    Cheers

    Simon
     
    Simon G, Jul 14, 2004
    #17
  18. Gaz

    Simon G Guest

    > Nonsense!

    I wish people would read what I write before jumping in :)

    > >As per Microsoft, it is not legal to make a backup of an operating system
    > >with a tool like Ghost or anything similar. The only people allowed to

    do
    > >this are the Big Boys (Dell, Gateway , Compaq etc)


    It was in relation to the original posters request of making backups of
    their hard drives for future use in restoring to an original state,
    something which Microsoft do not allow unless you are Dell, Gateway et al.

    Please read before you post.

    Thank you.
    Simon
     
    Simon G, Jul 14, 2004
    #18
  19. Gaz

    Alex Fraser Guest

    "Simon G" <> wrote in message
    news:20040713192810.095$...
    > > So are you saying that I can't make a backup for disaster recovery
    > > purposes ? maybe by using a tool like Veritas Backup Exec ? Can you
    > > give us a link to a Microsoft web page that confirms what you are
    > > saying, I would be quite interested to read what they have to say . . .

    >
    > Personal backup, yes, but thats not what the OP wanted.


    The OP said: "I own a PC repair business, and thinking of means to offer an
    extra service for my customers. For an extra sum, I will ghost their system
    onto a cd or dvd, for them to return their PC to a state where I left it
    (usually a lot better then when i got it!!!)."

    Which I read as saying that, for a price, he is creating a personal backup
    for and on behalf of the customer.

    [snip]
    > Microsoft state (in their System Builder section on the site - I cannot
    > link to as you have to be a member to access the page):
    >
    > (Admitedly this is for OEM software, however the rules are the same for
    > all verisons of Windows as it infringes the original copyright)
    >
    > Can I create my own recovery disks and sell these with the computer
    > systems that I build?
    > No. Any unauthorized reproduction [...] infringes Microsoft's copyright,
    > [...].
    >
    > The Microsoft OEM System Builder License does not permit reproduction of
    > Microsoft software. A full version of the Windows operating system is
    > provided on a CD in the Microsoft System Builder Pack for each end user,
    > and the CD is transferred to the end user at the time of sale. The
    > hologram CD acts as the System Builder recovery media. This not only
    > streamlines the distribution process, it also helps fight piracy.
    >
    > Larger OEMs who have a direct agreement with Microsoft [can]. [...]


    I don't how this applies to the OP, who is not (acting in this case as) a
    system builder. I also think it's stupid, but that's another matter.

    Alex
     
    Alex Fraser, Jul 14, 2004
    #19
  20. Gaz

    SimonG Ltd. Guest

    "Alex Fraser" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Simon G" <> wrote in message
    > news:20040713192810.095$...
    > > > So are you saying that I can't make a backup for disaster recovery
    > > > purposes ? maybe by using a tool like Veritas Backup Exec ? Can you
    > > > give us a link to a Microsoft web page that confirms what you are
    > > > saying, I would be quite interested to read what they have to say . .

    ..
    > >
    > > Personal backup, yes, but thats not what the OP wanted.

    >
    > The OP said: "I own a PC repair business, and thinking of means to offer

    an
    > extra service for my customers. For an extra sum, I will ghost their

    system
    > onto a cd or dvd, for them to return their PC to a state where I left it
    > (usually a lot better then when i got it!!!)."
    >
    > Which I read as saying that, for a price, he is creating a personal backup
    > for and on behalf of the customer.
    >
    > [snip]
    > > Microsoft state (in their System Builder section on the site - I cannot
    > > link to as you have to be a member to access the page):
    > >
    > > (Admitedly this is for OEM software, however the rules are the same for
    > > all verisons of Windows as it infringes the original copyright)
    > >
    > > Can I create my own recovery disks and sell these with the computer
    > > systems that I build?
    > > No. Any unauthorized reproduction [...] infringes Microsoft's copyright,
    > > [...].
    > >
    > > The Microsoft OEM System Builder License does not permit reproduction of
    > > Microsoft software. A full version of the Windows operating system is
    > > provided on a CD in the Microsoft System Builder Pack for each end user,
    > > and the CD is transferred to the end user at the time of sale. The
    > > hologram CD acts as the System Builder recovery media. This not only
    > > streamlines the distribution process, it also helps fight piracy.
    > >
    > > Larger OEMs who have a direct agreement with Microsoft [can]. [...]

    >
    > I don't how this applies to the OP, who is not (acting in this case as) a
    > system builder. I also think it's stupid, but that's another matter.
    >

    I agree, I think the OP could argue that he is providing a backup service,
    as long as he did the "backup" at their location and left it with them for
    them to use. It's really a pre-emptive disaster recovery service . . .

    regards, SimonG
     
    SimonG Ltd., Jul 14, 2004
    #20
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