I'm looking for a prosumer "sports" camera

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by JoeG, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. JoeG

    JoeG Guest

    which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    inside a basketball or volleyball arena.

    I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!

    Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?
    JoeG, Nov 12, 2004
    #1
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  2. JoeG

    Gadgets Guest

    Might be worth looking over dpreview.com and checking effective ISO vs noise
    vs shutter lag and range of (fast) lenses available... D70 would beat the
    Rebel for low shutter release lag (necessary for sport), but there probably
    are some cheaper alternatives, especially as it sounds like you don't need
    the huge range of lenses, a wide-to-medium-telephoto zoom would suit court
    sports if it allowed enough light thru... it's still a tough subject
    though, and pros either use huge off camera flash, or trigger roof mounted
    strobes

    Cheers, Jason (remove ... to reply)
    Video & Gaming: http://gadgetaus.com
    Gadgets, Nov 12, 2004
    #2
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  3. JoeG

    TAFKAB Guest

    "JoeG" <> wrote in message
    news:NNZkd.40998$...
    > which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as inside
    > a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >
    > I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get a
    > DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >
    > Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?


    Nope. The prosumer with the best AF system is the Sony 828, and it's no
    match for the Rebel. Also, it's close in price. If you want sports, the
    answer is the same: DSLR.
    TAFKAB, Nov 12, 2004
    #3
  4. JoeG

    Skip M Guest

    "JoeG" <> wrote in message
    news:NNZkd.40998$...
    > which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as inside
    > a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >
    > I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get a
    > DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >
    > Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?


    Have you considered film? A mid level film SLR is a match for any DSLR for
    focus speed, and there's a bunch of used pro level SLRs on the market for
    prices WAY below DSLR new prices.
    Otherwise, the minimum I would consider for sports in a digital camera is
    the Canon 20D, 5 fps for 20+ frames compared to 2.5/4 for the RebelD and
    3/12 fps for the D70. Also, the 20D will go to ISO3200, getting you one
    more stop than either the Rebel or the D70.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    Skip M, Nov 12, 2004
    #4
  5. JoeG

    YAG-ART Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:40:29 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:

    >which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >
    >I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    >a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >
    >Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?


    The digital rebel is a consumer/prosumer camera
    YAG-ART, Nov 12, 2004
    #5
  6. JoeG

    Drifter Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:40:29 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:

    >which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >
    >I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    >a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >
    >Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?


    Nope, not really.
    I mean sure you can take pictures but the slowness of the camera is
    going to drive you nuts.


    Drifter
    "I've been here, I've been there..."
    Drifter, Nov 12, 2004
    #6
  7. JoeG

    Art Salmons Guest

    "Skip M" <> wrote in message news:<KY2ld.134144$hj.76355@fed1read07>...
    > "JoeG" <> wrote in message
    > news:NNZkd.40998$...
    > > which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as inside
    > > a basketball or volleyball arena.
    > >
    > > I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get a
    > > DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    > >
    > > Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?

    >
    > Have you considered film? A mid level film SLR is a match for any DSLR for
    > focus speed, and there's a bunch of used pro level SLRs on the market for
    > prices WAY below DSLR new prices.
    > Otherwise, the minimum I would consider for sports in a digital camera is
    > the Canon 20D, 5 fps for 20+ frames compared to 2.5/4 for the RebelD and
    > 3/12 fps for the D70. Also, the 20D will go to ISO3200, getting you one
    > more stop than either the Rebel or the D70.


    I agree with Skip that an alternative if your aren't requiring digital
    is a film SLR. There are lots of Canon 1N's for sale cheap. I mean
    less then $300 on ebay these days for a pro camera.

    If you must go digital then a 20D or even a 10D would do the ticket.
    If money is a factor used and even new 10D's can be found for under
    $1000.

    Art
    Art Salmons, Nov 12, 2004
    #7
  8. JoeG

    JC - Toronto Guest

    Worthwhile to note that the Digital Rebel/300D can achieve 3200 ISO as
    well. in fact a simple firmware hack (voiding the waranty - unless
    you switch it back before servicing) will expand its capabilites very
    close to the 10D enabling such items as:
    - ISO 3200
    - Mirror Lock up
    - Selectable pause for mirror lock up see C.Fn. 17
    Changes:
    - Flash exposure compensation
    - 'jump' button selects the autofocus mode:
    AF OS - ONEShot
    AF SE - AIservo
    AF AI - AIfocusAF

    Details are on this site:
    http://www.bahneman.com/liem/photos/tricks/digital-rebel-tricks.html

    JC


    Drifter <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:40:29 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:
    >
    > >which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    > >inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    > >
    > >I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    > >a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    > >
    > >Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?

    >
    > Nope, not really.
    > I mean sure you can take pictures but the slowness of the camera is
    > going to drive you nuts.
    >
    >
    > Drifter
    > "I've been here, I've been there..."
    JC - Toronto, Nov 13, 2004
    #8
  9. JoeG

    JoeG Guest

    JoeG wrote:
    > which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    > inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >
    > I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    > a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >
    > Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?


    Thanks to all who have answered -- again everyone is still pointing to a
    DSLR -- I will wait a few more months(yrs) till they make a prosumer
    non-DSLR camera for sports. IMHO there are disadvantages to today's DSLR
    cameras - 1) cost, 2)heft & size, & 3) inability to preview via LCD .....
    JoeG, Nov 13, 2004
    #9
  10. JoeG

    YAG-ART Guest

    On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:36:27 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:

    >JoeG wrote:
    >> which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >> inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >>
    >> I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    >> a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >>
    >> Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?

    >
    >Thanks to all who have answered -- again everyone is still pointing to a
    >DSLR -- I will wait a few more months(yrs) till they make a prosumer
    >non-DSLR camera for sports. IMHO there are disadvantages to today's DSLR
    >cameras - 1) cost, 2)heft & size, & 3) inability to preview via LCD .....


    Cost, yes but you get what you pay for

    Heft and size, well the lower priced DSLR's aren't big and are light,
    of course I am comparing them to professional cameras. Size is an
    advatange, it make its much easier to hold still.

    Inablibity to preview via LCD is an advantage for any sports.

    Autofocus on a DSLR is much better, and when you press the shutter you
    dont wait like you do in p&s cameras.

    What you say are disadvatages for using a DSLR are really advantages
    for the DSLR.
    YAG-ART, Nov 13, 2004
    #10
  11. JoeG wrote:
    >>> which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >>> inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >>>
    >>> I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    >>> a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >>>
    >>> Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?

    >>


    Capable action shooting, especially for sports in poorly-lit gyms and
    arenas, requires many things including low light focusing, fast lens, low
    noise at high ISO, accurate and fast autofocusing, AF tracking, and fast
    frame rates. Even the lower level "prosumer" dSLRs such as the drebel, D70,
    D100, 10D, S2 Pro, are marginal for this kind of action shooting. You might
    be able to get some satisfactory shots with one of these cameras, but the
    percentage of keepers will be low. Even less likely with any of the
    point-and-shoots due to their even worse performance in those above
    categories.

    HMc
    Howard McCollister, Nov 13, 2004
    #11
  12. JoeG

    JoeG Guest

    Howard McCollister wrote:


    >
    > Capable action shooting, especially for sports in poorly-lit gyms and
    > arenas, requires many things including low light focusing, fast lens, low
    > noise at high ISO, accurate and fast autofocusing, AF tracking, and fast
    > frame rates. Even the lower level "prosumer" dSLRs such as the drebel, D70,
    > D100, 10D, S2 Pro, are marginal for this kind of action shooting. You might
    > be able to get some satisfactory shots with one of these cameras, but the
    > percentage of keepers will be low. Even less likely with any of the
    > point-and-shoots due to their even worse performance in those above
    > categories.
    >
    > HMc


    Thanks Howard for your added insight --- low light conditions &
    action/movement is a difficult puzzle for many cameras. I guess I should
    hold my breath for the day when a camera can take good sports action
    shots inside a gymnasium which at the same time can fit in my jacket pocket.
    JoeG, Nov 13, 2004
    #12
  13. JoeG

    YAG-ART Guest

    On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 19:48:56 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:

    >Howard McCollister wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Capable action shooting, especially for sports in poorly-lit gyms and
    >> arenas, requires many things including low light focusing, fast lens, low
    >> noise at high ISO, accurate and fast autofocusing, AF tracking, and fast
    >> frame rates. Even the lower level "prosumer" dSLRs such as the drebel, D70,
    >> D100, 10D, S2 Pro, are marginal for this kind of action shooting. You might
    >> be able to get some satisfactory shots with one of these cameras, but the
    >> percentage of keepers will be low. Even less likely with any of the
    >> point-and-shoots due to their even worse performance in those above
    >> categories.
    >>
    >> HMc

    >
    >Thanks Howard for your added insight --- low light conditions &
    >action/movement is a difficult puzzle for many cameras. I guess I should
    >hold my breath for the day when a camera can take good sports action
    >shots inside a gymnasium which at the same time can fit in my jacket pocket.



    Go to a taylor and get your jacket pocket made bigger :)
    YAG-ART, Nov 13, 2004
    #13
  14. On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:40:29 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:

    >which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >
    >I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    >a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >
    >Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?

    Have you considered buying used? there are plenty of bargains to be
    found on Ebay. You could look at new 10d which there are quite a few
    on sale. Also check out nikon d100 .
    eric phillips
    eric phillips, Nov 13, 2004
    #14
  15. JoeG

    MarkH Guest

    JoeG <> wrote in
    news:Iytld.41462$:

    > Howard McCollister wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Capable action shooting, especially for sports in poorly-lit gyms and
    >> arenas, requires many things including low light focusing, fast lens,
    >> low noise at high ISO, accurate and fast autofocusing, AF tracking,
    >> and fast frame rates. Even the lower level "prosumer" dSLRs such as
    >> the drebel, D70, D100, 10D, S2 Pro, are marginal for this kind of
    >> action shooting. You might be able to get some satisfactory shots
    >> with one of these cameras, but the percentage of keepers will be low.
    >> Even less likely with any of the point-and-shoots due to their even
    >> worse performance in those above categories.
    >>
    >> HMc

    >
    > Thanks Howard for your added insight --- low light conditions &
    > action/movement is a difficult puzzle for many cameras. I guess I
    > should hold my breath for the day when a camera can take good sports
    > action shots inside a gymnasium which at the same time can fit in my
    > jacket pocket.


    Get a Canon 20D and a Domke Photo Vest.

    Generally a small camera will have a small sensor, which has less surface
    area to collect light, which will result in poor low light performance.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
    MarkH, Nov 13, 2004
    #15
  16. JoeG

    YAG-ART Guest

    On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 23:18:15 GMT, MarkH <> wrote:

    >JoeG <> wrote in
    >news:Iytld.41462$:
    >
    >> Howard McCollister wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Capable action shooting, especially for sports in poorly-lit gyms and
    >>> arenas, requires many things including low light focusing, fast lens,
    >>> low noise at high ISO, accurate and fast autofocusing, AF tracking,
    >>> and fast frame rates. Even the lower level "prosumer" dSLRs such as
    >>> the drebel, D70, D100, 10D, S2 Pro, are marginal for this kind of
    >>> action shooting. You might be able to get some satisfactory shots
    >>> with one of these cameras, but the percentage of keepers will be low.
    >>> Even less likely with any of the point-and-shoots due to their even
    >>> worse performance in those above categories.
    >>>
    >>> HMc

    >>
    >> Thanks Howard for your added insight --- low light conditions &
    >> action/movement is a difficult puzzle for many cameras. I guess I
    >> should hold my breath for the day when a camera can take good sports
    >> action shots inside a gymnasium which at the same time can fit in my
    >> jacket pocket.

    >
    >Get a Canon 20D and a Domke Photo Vest.


    Or a 1DMark2 :)
    YAG-ART, Nov 14, 2004
    #16
  17. JoeG

    Monroe Guest

    Along this same line and requirement, has anyone continued with film
    SLR's using commercial development and subsequent scanning/editing
    with their own dedicated film scanner? Is this fairly economical? I
    like the ease of having a low light, good lens/exposure system, choice
    of fast zoom w/o the serious $$ of a digital SLR.

    On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:56:20 +1000, eric phillips <>
    wrote:

    >On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:40:29 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:
    >
    >>which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >>inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >>
    >>I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    >>a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >>
    >>Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?

    >Have you considered buying used? there are plenty of bargains to be
    >found on Ebay. You could look at new 10d which there are quite a few
    >on sale. Also check out nikon d100 .
    >eric phillips


    --

    Monroe
    Monroe, Nov 14, 2004
    #17
  18. JoeG

    YAG-ART Guest

    I used to do that, but it was getting too slow and expensive.

    On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:43:07 GMT, Monroe <> wrote:

    >Along this same line and requirement, has anyone continued with film
    >SLR's using commercial development and subsequent scanning/editing
    >with their own dedicated film scanner? Is this fairly economical? I
    >like the ease of having a low light, good lens/exposure system, choice
    >of fast zoom w/o the serious $$ of a digital SLR.
    >
    >On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 07:56:20 +1000, eric phillips <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 07:40:29 GMT, JoeG <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >>>inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >>>
    >>>I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    >>>a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >>>
    >>>Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?

    >>Have you considered buying used? there are plenty of bargains to be
    >>found on Ebay. You could look at new 10d which there are quite a few
    >>on sale. Also check out nikon d100 .
    >>eric phillips
    YAG-ART, Nov 14, 2004
    #18
  19. Hi

    You can check out the following page which has several of the cameras
    which I think will suit your needs:

    http://www.basic-digital-photography.com/top-10-ultra-compact-digital-cameras.html

    Gary



    JoeG <> wrote in message news:<NNZkd.40998$>...
    > which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    > inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >
    > I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back "Get
    > a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS Rebel!
    >
    > Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?
    Gary Hendricks, Nov 14, 2004
    #19
  20. JoeG

    MarkH Guest

    (Gary Hendricks) wrote in
    news::
    > JoeG <> wrote in message
    > news:<NNZkd.40998$>...
    >> which can take good action shots under low-light conditions such as
    >> inside a basketball or volleyball arena.
    >>
    >> I asked this question earlier in the year and ALL answers came back
    >> "Get a DSLR" -- with the cheapest offering going to the Canon EOS
    >> Rebel!
    >>
    >> Are there any consumer/prosumer cameras that can do the trick now?


    > Hi
    >
    > You can check out the following page which has several of the cameras
    > which I think will suit your needs:
    >
    > http://www.basic-digital-photography.com/top-10-ultra-compact-digital-c
    > ameras.html


    Personally I would not try to shoot sports under low-light conditions with
    any of those cameras!

    My list of suitable cameras for sports under low-light:
    Canon 1DMKII
    Canon 20D
    Nikon D2H
    Nikon D70

    There are bound to be other reasonable performers too.

    Just remember that small cameras with small sensors produce rather crappy
    images when pushed to ISO 400, whereas the cameras on my list produce
    useable images at ISO 1600.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
    MarkH, Nov 14, 2004
    #20
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