If you connect the USB cable first, ...

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Erv Young, Nov 7, 2003.

  1. Erv Young

    Erv Young Guest

    In the manual for my Sony DSC-S75, it says:

    "Be sure to complete installation of the USB driver before connecting
    the USB cable. If you connect the USB cable first, you will be unable
    to install the USB driver properly."

    I didn't actually make this mistake. But it sure acts like it thinks
    I did. Then what? What does "unable" mean? Unable until I do what?

    Anybody know of a way to get tech support for Sony products? (If it's
    on their Web site, I sure can't find it.)

    Thanks in advance.

    --Erv
     
    Erv Young, Nov 7, 2003
    #1
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  2. Erv Young

    pjp Guest

    Basically my understanding from conversation with techie's and my own
    experience is that under 98 you install the driver first but under XP attach
    the device first.

    It appears that under 98 if you first attach a device the OS detects the
    device and installs "some" default driver usually ending up as an "unknown
    device" or an "hid device" (joysticks do this) etc. Installing the driver
    then doesn't always "correct" the problem device. If instead the driver is
    installed first, the OS then correctly detects the device and loads the
    proper driver rather than some "default".

    I don't run XP so I can only go by tech friends tellimg me it's the opposite
    from 98, e.g. attach the device first. There must be some different logic to
    how devices get detected-setup etc. (different hardware abstration layer -
    HAL maybe?), not surprising.given it's NT rather than 9x roots.

    Erv Young wrote:
    > In the manual for my Sony DSC-S75, it says:
    >
    > "Be sure to complete installation of the USB driver before connecting
    > the USB cable. If you connect the USB cable first, you will be unable
    > to install the USB driver properly."
    >
    > I didn't actually make this mistake. But it sure acts like it thinks
    > I did. Then what? What does "unable" mean? Unable until I do what?
    >
    > Anybody know of a way to get tech support for Sony products? (If it's
    > on their Web site, I sure can't find it.)
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > --Erv
     
    pjp, Nov 7, 2003
    #2
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  3. Erv Young

    Samuel Paik Guest

    (Erv Young) wrote:
    > In the manual for my Sony DSC-S75, it says:
    >
    > "Be sure to complete installation of the USB driver before connecting
    > the USB cable. If you connect the USB cable first, you will be unable
    > to install the USB driver properly."
    >
    > I didn't actually make this mistake. But it sure acts like it thinks
    > I did. Then what? What does "unable" mean?


    Access/download images straight from the camera.

    > Unable until I do what?


    Depends on your version of Windows.

    > Anybody know of a way to get tech support for Sony products? (If it's
    > on their Web site, I sure can't find it.)


    Sony doesn't have a all products tech support link. Get to the Sony Style
    web site, either by going to the Sony web site <http://www.sony.com/>
    and selecting "Electronics" or go straight to <http://www.sonystyle.com/>.
    There is a Product Service and Support link at the top of that page.

    Sam
     
    Samuel Paik, Nov 7, 2003
    #3
  4. The advice is right, for almost all cameras. What happens is that the OS
    enumerates the device and tries to set up a driver stack for it, often it
    fails. (even on XP sometimes)

    To undo this you'll have to go into the registry, find the enumeration tree
    and then find the specific VID/PID (Vendor ID/Product ID) for your USB
    device and delete that key. (unless you know the VID/PID in advance, this
    is nearly impossible)

    Good luck

    "Erv Young" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In the manual for my Sony DSC-S75, it says:
    >
    > "Be sure to complete installation of the USB driver before connecting
    > the USB cable. If you connect the USB cable first, you will be unable
    > to install the USB driver properly."
    >
    > I didn't actually make this mistake. But it sure acts like it thinks
    > I did. Then what? What does "unable" mean? Unable until I do what?
    >
    > Anybody know of a way to get tech support for Sony products? (If it's
    > on their Web site, I sure can't find it.)
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > --Erv
     
    William Jackson, Nov 7, 2003
    #4
  5. Erv Young

    MB Guest

    It would seem to me that Sony is referring literally to the driver for USB,
    not the driver for the device (camera in this instance). Manufacturers of
    devices don't always write new instructions for new products but re-hash old
    instructions, at least in part. I would interpret it to mean that Sony is
    not assuming all PCs support USB.
     
    MB, Nov 7, 2003
    #5
  6. Erv Young

    Erv Young Guest

    (Samuel Paik) wrote in message news:<>...
    > (Erv Young) wrote:
    > > In the manual for my Sony DSC-S75, it says:
    > >
    > > "Be sure to complete installation of the USB driver before connecting
    > > the USB cable. If you connect the USB cable first, you will be unable
    > > to install the USB driver properly."
    > >
    > > I didn't actually make this mistake. But it sure acts like it thinks
    > > I did. Then what? What does "unable" mean?

    >
    > Access/download images straight from the camera.
    >
    > > Unable until I do what?

    >
    > Depends on your version of Windows.


    Right. Windows 2000 Pro SP4. Thought I had said that. Sorry.

    > > Anybody know of a way to get tech support for Sony products? (If it's
    > > on their Web site, I sure can't find it.)

    >
    > Sony doesn't have a all products tech support link. Get to the Sony Style
    > web site, either by going to the Sony web site <http://www.sony.com/>
    > and selecting "Electronics" or go straight to <http://www.sonystyle.com/>.
    > There is a Product Service and Support link at the top of that page.


    Yeah, and way up in the top right there is a Contact link.

    And if I drill down to Digital Imaging page, there is a Reaching Sony:
    E-mail link. They don't exactly jump up in one's face, do they? I
    think I was concentrating too intently on the center of the page.
    Thanks for the pointer.
     
    Erv Young, Nov 7, 2003
    #6
  7. Erv Young

    Samuel Paik Guest

    (Erv Young) wrote:
    > > > I didn't actually make this mistake. But it sure acts like it thinks
    > > > I did. Then what? What does "unable" mean?

    > >
    > > Access/download images straight from the camera.
    > >
    > > > Unable until I do what?

    > >
    > > Depends on your version of Windows.

    >
    > Right. Windows 2000 Pro SP4. Thought I had said that. Sorry.


    I think this will work:

    Connect your camera via USB (turned on, etc...).

    Go to the Device Manager (right click on "My Computer", select

    Properties, click on the Hardware tab, click on the
    "Device Manager..." button.).

    There should be a device corresponding to your camera, it
    isn't clear to me where it will be, but one way to find it
    if it isn't obvious is to go to the View menu and select
    "Devices by Connection", then look for your USB controllers
    and look at the devices hanging off of that. (On my computer,
    the USB controller devices are on "APCI Uniprocessor PC"
    -> "Microsoft APCI-Compliant System" -> PCI bus,
    "NEC PCI to USB Open Host Controller".)

    Right click the device and choose "Uninstall...". Select
    OK on the alert.

    Unplug your camera from the computer, install the Sony drivers,
    then plug the camea back into the computer.

    Sam
     
    Samuel Paik, Nov 8, 2003
    #7
  8. Erv Young

    Erv Young Guest

    Re: If you connect the USB cable first, ... it's a miracle!

    "William Jackson" <> wrote in message news:<bog224$q4t$>...
    > The advice is right, for almost all cameras. What happens is that the OS
    > enumerates the device and tries to set up a driver stack for it, often it
    > fails. (even on XP sometimes)
    >
    > To undo this you'll have to go into the registry, find the enumeration tree
    > and then find the specific VID/PID (Vendor ID/Product ID) for your USB
    > device and delete that key. (unless you know the VID/PID in advance, this
    > is nearly impossible)
    >
    > Good luck
    >


    Before I got around to asking you for further details on this
    HKEY-enumeration-tree whoozy-whatsis, HP tech support responded to my
    e-mail. (HP is the perpetrator, er, manufacturer, of the computer.)
    Asked them about the USB problem, and about a seemingly unrelated
    problem, namely non-functioning DVD-ROM drive. Read on; it's
    relevant, really! With regard to the USB problem, they suggested a
    clean re-install of Win2K. With regard to the DVD drive, they
    suggested first just removing the drive in Device Manager and
    rebooting.

    Since the only Win2K distribution medium I can lay hands on at this
    moment is a DVD, I decided to try fixing the DVD problem first.
    Uninstalled the DVD drive, rebooted, and voilá! It immediately
    recognized the scanner (which I had inadvertently left plugged in and
    connected) and installed the correct drivers. Then I installed the
    camera driver from the camera's CD, plugged in the camera, connected
    it, powered it up, and downloaded the pictures.

    The DVD drive, however, is still hosed.

    Now please understand, I did absolutely nothing that should have
    affected the USB problem. I addressed only the DVD problem, and the
    USB subsystem fixed itself. It's magic!

    And I had the temerity to identify myself, on the HP "e-mail support"
    form, as an advanced user. Naahh. I've only been at this stuff 40
    years. I'm still just a beginner. I need to go back to something
    simple, like putting together my own machine from board-level
    components. Now that, I understand. I think. Sheesh....

    > "Erv Young" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > In the manual for my Sony DSC-S75, it says:
    > >
    > > "Be sure to complete installation of the USB driver before connecting
    > > the USB cable. If you connect the USB cable first, you will be unable
    > > to install the USB driver properly."
    > >
    > > I didn't actually make this mistake. But it sure acts like it thinks
    > > I did. Then what? What does "unable" mean? Unable until I do what?


    Until I read the entire page 38 of the manual very carefully, making
    sure to look through the bottom part of my trifocals at all times, and
    noticed the suggestion to turn to p. 93 for instructions on bailing
    out of this jam. Indeed, the instructions are there, in seemingly
    sufficient detail. Although, for reasons explained above, I never got
    as far as following these instructions.

    Also, I might not be so down on HP computers if, when I bought the
    machine 3+ years ago, their tech support had been at the level it is
    at now. At that time, it was, "Windows 2000? Sorry. You're on your
    own." This time, their response addressed both of my questions
    thoroughly, with a primary and a secondary course of action for each,
    and it came back in one hour and 10 minutes. Revolutionary!

    Thanks for your thoughtful help.

    --Erv
     
    Erv Young, Nov 8, 2003
    #8
  9. Erv Young

    FOR7b Guest

    Re: If you connect the USB cable first, ... it's a miracle!

    >The DVD drive, however, is still hosed.
    >
    >Now please understand, I did absolutely nothing that should have
    >affected the USB problem. I addressed only the DVD problem, and the
    >USB subsystem fixed itself. It's magic!
    >
    >And I had the temerity to identify myself, on the HP "e-mail support"
    >form, as an advanced user. Naahh. I've only been at this stuff 40
    >years. I'm still just a beginner. I need to go back to something
    >simple, like putting together my own machine from board-level
    >components. Now that, I understand. I think. Sheesh....
    >


    I built my own computer and it has 2 CD writers and now recently also a DVD
    drive. Depending on which IDE channel and Master/Slave position it was
    installed in it caused havoc to the two CD writers performance and music
    software's ability to detect audio CDs in the drives. Unplug the DVD drive and
    everything works fine. Ultimately it was a matter of putting the DVD drive into
    the best position that made using 3 drives psosible. Unlike your case though
    the DVD drive always worked even if it affected the other two drives. Have you
    considered trying the DVD drive in a different IDE position or even getting an
    IDE controller card and plugging it into that?


     
    FOR7b, Nov 8, 2003
    #9
  10. On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 06:54:46 +0000, pjp wrote:

    > I don't run XP so I can only go by tech friends tellimg me it's the
    > opposite from 98, e.g. attach the device first. There must be some
    > different logic to how devices get detected-setup etc. (different hardware
    > abstration layer - HAL maybe?), not surprising.given it's NT rather than
    > 9x roots.


    Basically, Win98's USB stack is terminally broken, so most devices come
    with "98 drivers". These are unnecessary on OS'es which get USB right.
    There's plenty of USB hardware which advertises "driverless" operation
    (i.e. driver built into OS), but still requires you to install software to
    make it work on 98, because the stuff built into the OS basically doesn't
    work properly.

    Mike.
     
    Mike Brodbelt, Nov 9, 2003
    #10
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