If I wanted to try Fedora?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Joy, Oct 4, 2006.

  1. Joy

    Joy Guest

    Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on an xp
    home machine to dual boot?
    Joy
     
    Joy, Oct 4, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mark Robinson, Oct 4, 2006
    #2
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  3. Joy

    MaHogany Guest

    On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:00:44 +1300, Joy wrote:

    > Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on an xp
    > home machine to dual boot?


    Things you need to bear in mind...

    1/ you're talking about downloading potentially 5 full CDs worth of
    software. You'd be better off buying a magazine with that distro on a DVD.

    2/ MS Windows assumes that it is the only OS installed onto a HDD - and it
    will impose that assumption if you install WinXP "home" after you
    installed ANY other operating system in a dual boot arrangement. Thus
    install MS Windows first, and then any other OSes afterwards. This means
    all your configuration of dual booting needs to be done in the non-MS
    environment.

    3/ All linux distros properly should have as a minumum 3 partitions
    dedicated to the linux system - the "root" ("/") directory, the "Home"
    ("/home") directories shoud be on their own partitions, as also should the
    "Swap" space. Setting it up like that means you can easily update the
    system without needing to worry too much about your personal
    data/documents.

    4/ You will need to have spare space on the HDD that is not being used by
    MS Windows - space that you can then use to create partitions for use by
    Linux.

    5/ I reccommend using the KDE desktop if you have a CPU with sufficient
    grunt - because it's much more configurable, but I also reccommed that you
    have both KDE *and* Gnome installed, as many good programmes (such as
    Evolution & Pan, need libraries that are a part of the Gnome desktop.

    6/ There are two main places in the GUI for locating settings - one has
    the settings relating to the GUI, and the other has everything else.

    7/ Learn how to use the VI text editor - it's the best of the
    terminal/Konsole based textfile editors - you may end up needing it when
    you don't have a GUI to use.


    Ma Hogany

    --
    "The average user doesn't know what he wants. The average user wants
    fries with that, if prompted."
     
    MaHogany, Oct 4, 2006
    #3
  4. T'was the Wed, 4 Oct 2006 22:00:44 +1300 when I remembered "Joy"
    <> saying something like this:

    >Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on an xp
    >home machine to dual boot?


    You can download it (mind the bandwidth charges), or get it on DVD
    from DSE. When dual booting, it's best to have a bit of hard drive
    space not allocated to anything. All your HD space taken up? Resize
    those partitions with Partition Magic or something. Then get Fedora to
    create all the partitions it needs from the free space. *take note*
    that it doesn't wipe over your Windows partition, be careful and
    backup all your important data before you play.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
     
    Waylon Kenning, Oct 4, 2006
    #4
  5. Joy

    Shane Guest

    Waylon Kenning wrote:

    > T'was the Wed, 4 Oct 2006 22:00:44 +1300 when I remembered "Joy"
    > <> saying something like this:
    >
    >>Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on an
    >>xp home machine to dual boot?

    >
    > You can download it (mind the bandwidth charges), or get it on DVD
    > from DSE. When dual booting, it's best to have a bit of hard drive
    > space not allocated to anything. All your HD space taken up? Resize
    > those partitions with Partition Magic or something. Then get Fedora to
    > create all the partitions it needs from the free space. *take note*
    > that it doesn't wipe over your Windows partition, be careful and
    > backup all your important data before you play.



    Two possible problems with that scenario.
    If the Windows partition is marked as Hidden FAT32 0x1B 0x1C or NTFS hidden
    0x17 Then the windows partition may become unbootable after the install
    (Its easy to fix, just fire up cfdisk and change the Type for the windows
    partition to 0x0B 0x0C or (NTFS) 0x07 but its more than your average
    beginner can grok)
    Another problem with Partition magic, and more likely, is the map to
    ntoskrnl will change, and its a prick to find it with the boot.ini for the
    experienced, let alone a beginner

    In light of these issues, I suggest Joy finds the local Linux User Group, go
    to a meeting with her computer and someone will help her out
    </muddying the water>
    --
    Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is dicipline, and that means a well made
    bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
    Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?
    Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all the
    bed making you'll be doing.

    blog: http://shanes.dyndns.org
     
    Shane, Oct 4, 2006
    #5
  6. Joy

    Joy Guest

    "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    news:eg0thn$j5$...
    > Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >
    >> T'was the Wed, 4 Oct 2006 22:00:44 +1300 when I remembered "Joy"
    >> <> saying something like this:
    >>
    >>>Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on an
    >>>xp home machine to dual boot?


    > Two possible problems with that scenario.
    > If the Windows partition is marked as Hidden FAT32 0x1B 0x1C or NTFS
    > hidden
    > 0x17 Then the windows partition may become unbootable after the install
    > (Its easy to fix, just fire up cfdisk and change the Type for the windows
    > partition to 0x0B 0x0C or (NTFS) 0x07 but its more than your average
    > beginner can grok)
    > Another problem with Partition magic, and more likely, is the map to
    > ntoskrnl will change, and its a prick to find it with the boot.ini for the
    > experienced, let alone a beginner
    >
    > In light of these issues, I suggest Joy finds the local Linux User Group,
    > go
    > to a meeting with her computer and someone will help her out
    > </muddying the water>
    > --
    > Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is dicipline, and that means a well
    > made
    > bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
    > Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?
    > Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all the
    > bed making you'll be doing.


    I have not got a copy of partition magic. The pc in question is a new one,
    home built and I formated both partitions on the 280g hard disk to ntfs,
    the one containing windows is 30g. The second partition has 160g still free.
    I use it mainly for video editing which requires lots of space. The dvd
    fedora image downloaded overnight, I notice that it's a winRAR archive, so I
    guess it needs to be unpacked before writing to dvd. So you think installing
    it is beyond this old lady? It quite possibly is. What a shame, the last
    time I tried to install a type of linux, years ago, it was a disaster. Since
    then I've been practising installing various windows os's on various
    machines and I've got more confidence. But now, to be on the safe side, I'll
    have to find someone to help me.
    Joy
     
    Joy, Oct 4, 2006
    #6
  7. Joy

    Joy Guest

    "MaHogany" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:00:44 +1300, Joy wrote:
    >
    >> Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on an
    >> xp
    >> home machine to dual boot?

    >
    > Things you need to bear in mind...
    >
    > 1/ you're talking about downloading potentially 5 full CDs worth of
    > software. You'd be better off buying a magazine with that distro on a DVD.
    >
    > 2/ MS Windows assumes that it is the only OS installed onto a HDD - and it
    > will impose that assumption if you install WinXP "home" after you
    > installed ANY other operating system in a dual boot arrangement. Thus
    > install MS Windows first, and then any other OSes afterwards. This means
    > all your configuration of dual booting needs to be done in the non-MS
    > environment.
    >
    > 3/ All linux distros properly should have as a minumum 3 partitions
    > dedicated to the linux system - the "root" ("/") directory, the "Home"
    > ("/home") directories shoud be on their own partitions, as also should the
    > "Swap" space. Setting it up like that means you can easily update the
    > system without needing to worry too much about your personal
    > data/documents.
    >
    > 4/ You will need to have spare space on the HDD that is not being used by
    > MS Windows - space that you can then use to create partitions for use by
    > Linux.
    >
    > 5/ I reccommend using the KDE desktop if you have a CPU with sufficient
    > grunt - because it's much more configurable, but I also reccommed that you
    > have both KDE *and* Gnome installed, as many good programmes (such as
    > Evolution & Pan, need libraries that are a part of the Gnome desktop.
    >
    > 6/ There are two main places in the GUI for locating settings - one has
    > the settings relating to the GUI, and the other has everything else.
    >
    > 7/ Learn how to use the VI text editor - it's the best of the
    > terminal/Konsole based textfile editors - you may end up needing it when
    > you don't have a GUI to use.


    Thanks for your advice.
    Joy
     
    Joy, Oct 4, 2006
    #7
  8. Joy

    Tony Guest


    > Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on an xp
    > home machine to dual boot?
    > Joy
    >
    >


    ftp://ftp.wicks.co.nz as per the Fedora Mirror list.
     
    Tony, Oct 4, 2006
    #8
  9. Joy

    EMB Guest

    Joy wrote:

    > I have not got a copy of partition magic. The pc in question is a new one,
    > home built and I formated both partitions on the 280g hard disk to ntfs,
    > the one containing windows is 30g. The second partition has 160g still free.
    > I use it mainly for video editing which requires lots of space. The dvd
    > fedora image downloaded overnight, I notice that it's a winRAR archive, so I
    > guess it needs to be unpacked before writing to dvd. So you think installing
    > it is beyond this old lady? It quite possibly is. What a shame, the last
    > time I tried to install a type of linux, years ago, it was a disaster. Since
    > then I've been practising installing various windows os's on various
    > machines and I've got more confidence. But now, to be on the safe side, I'll
    > have to find someone to help me.


    Any particular reason for choosing Fedora as opposed to Ubuntu (or
    something else a bit more newbie friendly)?


    --
    EMB
     
    EMB, Oct 4, 2006
    #9
  10. T'was the Thu, 5 Oct 2006 08:02:01 +1300 when I remembered "Joy"
    <> saying something like this:

    >I have not got a copy of partition magic. The pc in question is a new one,
    >home built and I formated both partitions on the 280g hard disk to ntfs,
    >the one containing windows is 30g. The second partition has 160g still free.
    >I use it mainly for video editing which requires lots of space. The dvd
    >fedora image downloaded overnight, I notice that it's a winRAR archive, so I
    >guess it needs to be unpacked before writing to dvd. So you think installing
    >it is beyond this old lady? It quite possibly is. What a shame, the last
    >time I tried to install a type of linux, years ago, it was a disaster. Since
    >then I've been practising installing various windows os's on various
    >machines and I've got more confidence. But now, to be on the safe side, I'll
    >have to find someone to help me.


    I don't think it's super hard, I guess the most important tip as
    always is back up your data. If all your data is backed up onto those
    DVDs or another hard drive, then have a ball and just experiment. I
    mean, if your data's safe, what do you have to lose?

    And if all this makes you a little nervous, a good way of playing
    around in Linux is in a virtual machine! Try either Virtual PC 2004 or
    VMWare Workstation (I believe there's trials for both available). It's
    an application that creates a virtual PC, and allows you to play with
    any OS to your hearts content without having to get down and dirty
    with partitions and things like that before you're ready. I just
    downloaded Kubuntu, and I'm gonna put it into a virtual PC, since I
    really can't be bothered resizing partitions.
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
     
    Waylon Kenning, Oct 4, 2006
    #10
  11. Joy

    Chris Hope Guest

    Joy wrote:

    > Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on
    > an xp home machine to dual boot?


    If you're going to download it rather than buy it (as suggested by a
    couple of others here) then you may want to wait a week until the next
    version is released (Fedora Core 6).

    See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Core/Schedule for more details about
    when it's due to be released. At the current time it's due to be
    released on October 11th.

    If you do want to get FC5 now and download it, Wicks will be the best
    bet as it's located in NZ so should generally be faster than overseas
    mirrors:

    for 32 bit systems:
    ftp://ftp.wicks.co.nz/pub/linux/dist/fedora/5/i386/iso

    for 64 bit systems:
    ftp://ftp.wicks.co.nz/pub/linux/dist/fedora/5/x86_64/iso

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
     
    Chris Hope, Oct 4, 2006
    #11
  12. Joy

    Shane Guest

    Joy wrote:

    >
    > "Shane" <-a-geek.net> wrote in message
    > news:eg0thn$j5$...
    >> Waylon Kenning wrote:
    >>
    >>> T'was the Wed, 4 Oct 2006 22:00:44 +1300 when I remembered "Joy"
    >>> <> saying something like this:
    >>>
    >>>>Where is the best place to download it from? How is best installed on
    >>>>an xp home machine to dual boot?

    >
    >> Two possible problems with that scenario.
    >> If the Windows partition is marked as Hidden FAT32 0x1B 0x1C or NTFS
    >> hidden
    >> 0x17 Then the windows partition may become unbootable after the install
    >> (Its easy to fix, just fire up cfdisk and change the Type for the windows
    >> partition to 0x0B 0x0C or (NTFS) 0x07 but its more than your average
    >> beginner can grok)
    >> Another problem with Partition magic, and more likely, is the map to
    >> ntoskrnl will change, and its a prick to find it with the boot.ini for
    >> the experienced, let alone a beginner
    >>
    >> In light of these issues, I suggest Joy finds the local Linux User Group,
    >> go
    >> to a meeting with her computer and someone will help her out
    >> </muddying the water>
    >> --
    >> Zapp Brannigan: The key to victory is dicipline, and that means a well
    >> made
    >> bed. You will practice until you can make your bed in your sleep.
    >> Fry: You mean while I'm sleeping in it?
    >> Zapp Brannigan: You won't have time for sleeping soldier, not with all
    >> the bed making you'll be doing.

    >
    > I have not got a copy of partition magic. The pc in question is a new
    > one,
    > home built and I formated both partitions on the 280g hard disk to ntfs,
    > the one containing windows is 30g. The second partition has 160g still
    > free. I use it mainly for video editing which requires lots of space. The
    > dvd fedora image downloaded overnight, I notice that it's a winRAR
    > archive, so I guess it needs to be unpacked before writing to dvd. So you
    > think installing
    > it is beyond this old lady? It quite possibly is. What a shame, the last
    > time I tried to install a type of linux, years ago, it was a disaster.
    > Since then I've been practising installing various windows os's on various
    > machines and I've got more confidence. But now, to be on the safe side,
    > I'll have to find someone to help me.
    > Joy



    My only thoughts are, I have no idea on your abilities.
    If you can dual boot windows, you have the *basic* concepts for dual booting
    any operating systems. ie. prepare some space, load your shiny new OS into
    that space, install a boot loader
    Linux is trivial to install with graphic installers on most distros, and
    warnings of dire consequences in the appropriate places

    Having said that having experienced hands watch over a first go is always a
    good idea. What city are you in?
    There are LUGs in most larger citys, and if not theres always a linux
    enthusiast floating around

    --
    Planet Express Ship: Oh honey, look! The Tapirs! It says here that the
    babies lose their pyjama-like coat after their first year. Isn't that
    interesting, honey?
    Bender: Yup. Mind-numbingly interesting.

    blog: http://shanes.dyndns.org
     
    Shane, Oct 4, 2006
    #12
  13. Joy

    Joy Guest

    "EMB" <> wrote in message
    news:eg12mt$amp$...
    > Joy wrote:
    >
    >> I have not got a copy of partition magic. The pc in question is a new
    >> one, home built and I formated both partitions on the 280g hard disk to
    >> ntfs, the one containing windows is 30g. The second partition has 160g
    >> still free. I use it mainly for video editing which requires lots of
    >> space. The dvd fedora image downloaded overnight, I notice that it's a
    >> winRAR archive, so I guess it needs to be unpacked before writing to dvd.
    >> So you think installing it is beyond this old lady? It quite possibly
    >> is. What a shame, the last time I tried to install a type of linux, years
    >> ago, it was a disaster. Since then I've been practising installing
    >> various windows os's on various machines and I've got more confidence.
    >> But now, to be on the safe side, I'll have to find someone to help me.

    >
    > Any particular reason for choosing Fedora as opposed to Ubuntu (or
    > something else a bit more newbie friendly)?


    It's on the pc's at school and I'm at least a little familiar with it. I was
    lucky to access a linux guru today in the flesh! He advised me to install
    VMware server and gave me dvd of Fedora 4 to try as a virtual machine. I
    think thats great, I'm sure I'll be able to manage that on my own.
    Joy
     
    Joy, Oct 5, 2006
    #13
  14. Joy

    Joy Guest

    Thanks for all your comments.
    Joy
     
    Joy, Oct 5, 2006
    #14
  15. Joy

    Nicholas Lee Guest

    Try is a broad term.

    My suggestion is Ubuntu instead of Fedora. Better for new users. Plus
    you can get a LiveCD, which gives you the option of installing if you
    like it. Should be able to resize a Windows partition to make space.

    You can get a free CD here: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

    Or download it from here:
    http://ftp.citylink.co.nz/ubuntu-releases/6.06/

    "The desktop CD allows you to try Ubuntu without changing your computer
    at all, and at your option to install it permanently later. This type
    of CD is what most people will want to use. You will need at least
    192MB of RAM to install from this CD."

    You probably want:
    http://ftp.citylink.co.nz/ubuntu-releases/6.06/ubuntu-6.06.1-desktop-i386.iso

    The Fedora install process is a pain. If you must 'try' Fedora I
    suggest getting vmware player and download an Fedora vmware image.
    Best place for that is: http://www.thoughtpolice.co.uk/vmware/

    Nicholas
     
    Nicholas Lee, Oct 5, 2006
    #15
  16. Joy

    Gordon Guest

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:02:01 +1300, Joy wrote:

    > So you think installing
    > it is beyond this old lady? It quite possibly is. What a shame, the last
    > time I tried to install a type of linux, years ago, it was a disaster.


    Ms Penguin here. Years ago you say? Look the installers have bcome so
    swish these days its almost boring. The Linux people have put alot of
    effort into the installers in the last few years.

    Ubuntu, just click on install after loading the live CD. Have a cup of
    coffee, answer a few questions and do the *only* reboot required into the
    installed system.

    How about putting in another HD? Then you can install Linux to that disk.
    Just a thought.

    Also, you will have gain an experience and understanding of PCs by doing
    installations
     
    Gordon, Oct 5, 2006
    #16
  17. Joy

    Gordon Guest

    On Wed, 04 Oct 2006 22:31:40 +1300, MaHogany wrote:

    > 7/ Learn how to use the VI text editor - it's the best of the
    > terminal/Konsole based textfile editors - you may end up needing it when
    > you don't have a GUI to use.


    Easy now, while vi is there when all else may not be, could I suggest that
    the learning of it be done when one is a) interested in doing so and
    b)when one is calm.

    vi is command line on steriods, and eccentic as well.

    Do learn it though, at least in part for it will be there when you need it.
     
    Gordon, Oct 5, 2006
    #17
  18. Joy

    steve Guest

    Joy wrote:

    >
    > "MaHogany" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...


    >> 7/ Learn how to use the VI text editor - it's the best of the
    >> terminal/Konsole based textfile editors - you may end up needing it when
    >> you don't have a GUI to use.

    >
    > Thanks for your advice.
    > Joy


    vi is a pain for folks used to GUIs.

    Better is "nano".

    It's text-based, not-GUI, but it is not a line editor from the 1960s...which
    is what vi is.....or was last time I looked at it.
     
    steve, Oct 5, 2006
    #18
  19. Joy

    MaHogany Guest

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:57:48 +1300, steve wrote:

    > It's text-based, not-GUI, but it is not a line editor from the 1960s...which
    > is what vi is.....or was last time I looked at it.


    VI is not a "line editor".

    Emacs is a "line editor".

    Do not use "Emacs".


    Ma Hogany

    --
    "The average user doesn't know what he wants. The average user wants
    fries with that, if prompted."
     
    MaHogany, Oct 5, 2006
    #19
  20. Joy

    MaHogany Guest

    On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 17:11:15 +1300, Gordon wrote:

    > vi is command line on steriods, and eccentic as well.


    VI is the most powerful console based plain text editor there is.

    It is trivially easy to use once you've learned the commands.

    Arguably as easy to learn as what Wordstar under CPM was.


    Ma Hogany

    --
    "The average user doesn't know what he wants. The average user wants
    fries with that, if prompted."
     
    MaHogany, Oct 5, 2006
    #20
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