If I Buy Something, Do I Own It?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    impending winding down of MSN Music
    <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_letter_from_msn_music.html>,
    comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services which
    take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.

    How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 23, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    SlowLearner Guest

    On Apr 23, 12:30 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    > impending winding down of MSN Music
    > <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_le...>,
    > comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services which
    > take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.
    >
    > How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?


    Heck, I never even got as far as a download.

    There was some promo a while back where you got a code and could
    download a song from a website (came from a coke can or chocolate bar
    wrapper). I tried and tried but could not play the song. It
    downloaded ok but refused to play. I followed all of the DRM
    troubleshooting instructions and despite downloading and installing
    god alone knows what in my quest windows media player still refused to
    play the song. What a total waste of time. I emailed the music 'sales'
    site and told them that the experince was exactly what I expected and
    far from obtaining a potential customer, I will not even bother
    trying to use any service that uses a similar broken business model.

    Suffice to say that when WCC Libray started offering downloadable
    ebooks (nicely locked up with DRM) I decided to give it a miss. My
    wife however wanted to try it. So we gave it a go. The system works
    like this
    1. You select you books online and download a file that points to the
    ebook (just like a torrent!)
    2. You try to download the OverDrive Media application that lets you
    access the books.
    3. Firstly the provided link for download goes nowhere
    4. Swear
    5. After googling we download one from somewhere and run it and it
    does not work,
    6. Email the ODM people
    7. Wait.
    8. Wait.
    9. Finally get an email back with a new link.
    10. New link does not work.
    11. Swear
    10. Give up.

    About 2 months later my wife says she'd like to try again. This time
    the ODM media link works! Hurrah! Now that ODM's little window to the
    world of protected media is installed we do the following:
    1. Drag the book icons to the ODM application (just like torrents!)
    2. Download the books (just like torrents!)
    3. Try to play the media.
    4. Told that we don't have a key (not so much like torrents)
    5. Swear
    5. Try to install the key
    6. Get told that WMP v11 is not good enough, we have to "upgrade" to
    WMP 10.something.
    7. Swear
    8. Do something I can't remember and end up telling it to "upgrade"
    WMP to version 10
    9. Key installs, media works YAY!
    10. Later on, try to play some locally copied (now legal) CD rips and
    lo! WMP has lost all the tracks from the selection screens.
    11. Try to add tracks back, tracks being found but not added to
    database.
    12. Swear.
    13. Calm down, use google. turns out it is likley the database has
    been corrupted, I suspect by my tricky up/downgrade.

    Rebuilding the database was not a simple task and I gave up at that
    stage as I was only using windows for adding metadata to pictures so I
    just lived with no music until i got back to linux. Also we are not
    going to download anymore ebooks from the library until the new ubuntu
    is installed so that if/when wmp get corrupted again trying to use the
    ebooks we have a fall back.

    All in all DRM totally exceeded my expectations ... of crapness. I
    wish the best of luck to anyone who willingly involves themselves with
    it.
     
    SlowLearner, Apr 23, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    JohnO Guest

    On Apr 23, 2:35 pm, "geoff" <> wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > > A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    > > impending winding down of MSN Music
    > > <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_le...>,
    > > comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services
    > > which take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.

    >
    > > How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?

    >
    > Larry, what don't you understand about that if you pay for a ride in a taxi,
    > you don't own it ?
    >
    > geoff


    Larry can't grasp the connection from investment to R&D to ROI. I
    don't see why property rights would be any easier for him.
     
    JohnO, Apr 23, 2008
    #3
  4. In article <>, geoff did write:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    >> impending winding down of MSN Music
    >>

    <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_letter_from_msn_music.html>,
    >> comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services
    >> which take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.
    >>
    >> How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?

    >
    > Larry, what don't you understand about that if you pay for a ride in a
    > taxi, you don't own it ?


    So, to you, property is like a ride in a taxi?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 23, 2008
    #4
  5. On Apr 23, 5:20 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > In article <>, geoff did write:
    >
    > > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    >
    > >> A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    > >> impending winding down of MSN Music

    >
    > <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_le...>,
    >
    > >> comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services
    > >> which take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.

    >
    > >> How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?

    >
    > > Larry, what don't you understand about that if you pay for a ride in a
    > > taxi, you don't own it ?

    >
    > So, to you, property is like a ride in a taxi?


    You can bet that nothing they've done is outside of the contract
    accepted when paying for the tracks.

    Buying DRM'd music is like purchasing a leased property - might look
    good at first but a freaking terrible idea in the long haul.

    The real problem with these services is that most people are not aware
    of what they're buying in the first place.
     
    Hamish Campbell, Apr 23, 2008
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    JohnO Guest

    On Apr 23, 5:20 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > In article <>, geoff did write:
    >
    > > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    >
    > >> A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    > >> impending winding down of MSN Music

    >
    > <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_le...>,
    >
    > >> comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services
    > >> which take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.

    >
    > >> How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?

    >
    > > Larry, what don't you understand about that if you pay for a ride in a
    > > taxi, you don't own it ?

    >
    > So, to you, property is like a ride in a taxi?


    See Geoff? You might as well try to explain capitalism to a monkey.
     
    JohnO, Apr 23, 2008
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    JohnO wrote:
    > On Apr 23, 5:20 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    >> In article <>, geoff did write:
    >>
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    >>>> impending winding down of MSN Music

    >> <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_le...>,
    >>
    >>>> comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services
    >>>> which take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.
    >>>> How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?
    >>> Larry, what don't you understand about that if you pay for a ride in a
    >>> taxi, you don't own it ?

    >> So, to you, property is like a ride in a taxi?

    >
    > See Geoff? You might as well try to explain capitalism to a monkey.


    If you assume Lawrence is a touch on the hirsute side then you're not
    far wrong :)
     
    Squiggle, Apr 23, 2008
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Craig Shore Guest

    On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:30:52 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    >A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    >impending winding down of MSN Music
    ><http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_letter_from_msn_music.html>,
    >comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services which
    >take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.
    >
    >How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?


    If you download off Vodafone and get a new phone you're screwed too.

    The only service worth touching is iTunes non-drm stuff, but it's aac
    which might have been a good idea to get file size down, but with
    storage being so cheap thesedays there's nothing wrong with mp3.
     
    Craig Shore, Apr 23, 2008
    #8
  9. In article
    <>, JohnO
    did write:

    > On Apr 23, 5:20 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    > central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>, geoff did
    >> write:
    >>
    >> > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    >>
    >> >> A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    >> >> impending winding down of MSN Music

    >>
    >>

    <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_le...>,
    >>
    >> >> comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services
    >> >> which take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.

    >>
    >> >> How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?

    >>
    >> > Larry, what don't you understand about that if you pay for a ride in a
    >> > taxi, you don't own it ?

    >>
    >> So, to you, property is like a ride in a taxi?

    >
    > See Geoff? You might as well try to explain capitalism to a monkey.


    This capitalist monkey would like to know whether you understand the
    difference between purchasing something and hiring it, and whether you
    understand that those MSN Music customers were led to believe that they
    were purchasing songs, not hiring them.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 25, 2008
    #9
  10. In article <>, Smoking Causes Lung
    Cancer (SCLC) did write:

    > You don't, however, purchase Microsoft software. You license it, and can
    > continue to use it providing you conform to the terms of the license.


    Free Software is also licensed, not sold. So what's your point?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 25, 2008
    #10
  11. In article <fulvvp$qnk$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro did write:

    > A simple question with a simple answer, you would think. Yet, with the
    > impending winding down of MSN Music
    >

    <http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/my_dear_john_letter_from_msn_music.html>,
    > comes the latest in a long line of copy-protected download services which
    > take away your rights to use products you'd already bought.
    >
    > How many times do customers need to be screwed before they will learn?


    This <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/30/eff_msn_music_open_letter/>
    would be so funny, except it's not a joke--Microsoft's excuse for shutting
    down the MSN Music DRM servers:

    "Every time there is an OS upgrade, the DRM equation gets complex very
    quickly," Bennett said. "Every time, you saw support issues. People
    would call in because they couldn't download licenses. We had to write
    new code, new configurations each time."

    That's right, DRM is a fucking pain in the arse, therefore it makes better
    business sense to leave the customers in the lurch.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 30, 2008
    #11
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    When you buy something, do you own it?

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 24, 2007, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    373
    Bruce Sinclair
    Sep 26, 2007
  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    If I Buy Something, Do I Own It?

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 17, 2009, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    334
  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    If You Buy Something, Do You Own It?

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jul 18, 2009, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    495
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    Jul 19, 2009
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    If I Buy Something, Do I Own It?

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Mar 17, 2010, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    353
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    Mar 17, 2010
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    If I Buy Something, Do I Own It?

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Sep 22, 2010, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    16
    Views:
    662
    Simon
    Sep 25, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page