IDF faked photo ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by febo@delenda.net, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. Guest

    On the website www.corriere.it (the italian newspaper with the highest
    circulation) is shown currently this photo

    http://utenti.lycos.it/febodelenda/tarocco.htm

    which I've saved as of course the page contents changes every day.

    The information in the jpg says it is a photo from reuters obtained as a
    IDF handout.

    Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this photo
    with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?
    , Aug 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mark² Guest

    wrote:
    > On the website www.corriere.it (the italian newspaper with the highest
    > circulation) is shown currently this photo
    >
    > http://utenti.lycos.it/febodelenda/tarocco.htm
    >
    > which I've saved as of course the page contents changes every day.
    >
    > The information in the jpg says it is a photo from reuters obtained
    > as a IDF handout.
    >
    > Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this
    > photo with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?


    It doesn't look right, but it's too small to be sure.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
    Mark², Aug 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number here)@cox..net> wrote in message
    news:83DEg.13942$lv.13377@fed1read12...
    > wrote:

    SNIP
    >> Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this
    >> photo with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?

    >
    > It doesn't look right, but it's too small to be sure.


    Yep, my exact sentiments. The colors and white balance of the flag
    looks different from the rest of the image, but perhaps it is just
    lousy postprocessing and not a fake (how hard would it be to stage
    such a scene anyway).

    --
    Bart
    Bart van der Wolf, Aug 16, 2006
    #3
  4. Roy G Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On the website www.corriere.it (the italian newspaper with the highest
    > circulation) is shown currently this photo
    >
    > http://utenti.lycos.it/febodelenda/tarocco.htm
    >
    > which I've saved as of course the page contents changes every day.
    >
    > The information in the jpg says it is a photo from reuters obtained as a
    > IDF handout.
    >
    > Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this photo
    > with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?
    >

    Hi.

    It might be faked, or staged.

    I don't think so because the BBC news showed a clip of Israeli solders
    returning from Lebanon and 2 of them were holding a flag stretched out
    between them, exactly like this.

    I did think the flag looked a bit too clean, while the soldiers looked very
    grubby, so there was probably an Israeli PR person, with a supply of nice
    clean flags, just out of shot

    Roy G
    Roy G, Aug 16, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    wrote:

    > On the website www.corriere.it (the italian newspaper with the highest
    > circulation) is shown currently this photo
    >
    > http://utenti.lycos.it/febodelenda/tarocco.htm
    >
    > which I've saved as of course the page contents changes every day.
    >
    > The information in the jpg says it is a photo from reuters obtained as a
    > IDF handout.
    >
    > Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this photo
    > with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?


    The minute size of this picture makes determining if it is a fake very
    difficult.
    It looks like it has had it's contrast tweeked a bit to achieve the
    very clean looking flag.
    There simply isn't enough detail present to tell if there has been any
    obvious photoshopping, other than a contrast tweek.
    I remember some footage on the ABC (Australian Broadcasting
    Corporation) news that showed some Israeli soldiers leaving Lebanon
    holding a flag.
    It might be the same soldiers, I just can't tell.
    , Aug 16, 2006
    #5
  6. Guest

    In le message del 16 Aug 2006 07:51:52 -0700, ha
    scripte:

    .
    >>
    >> Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this photo
    >> with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?

    >
    > The minute size of this picture makes determining if it is a fake very
    > difficult.
    > It looks like it has had it's contrast tweeked a bit to achieve the
    > very clean looking flag.
    > There simply isn't enough detail present to tell if there has been any
    > obvious photoshopping, other than a contrast tweek.


    I've seen a video of soldiers holding a flag and smiling on the IDF
    website, but the problem is that that photo seems an obvious fake to me.

    I've managed to find a bigger jpg...

    http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060815/i/r3832144093.jpg
    , Aug 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Marvin Guest

    Roy G wrote:
    > <> wrote in message


    > It might be faked, or staged.
    >
    > I don't think so because the BBC news showed a clip of Israeli solders
    > returning from Lebanon and 2 of them were holding a flag stretched out
    > between them, exactly like this.
    >
    > I did think the flag looked a bit too clean, while the soldiers looked very
    > grubby, so there was probably an Israeli PR person, with a supply of nice
    > clean flags, just out of shot
    >
    > Roy G
    >
    >


    Maybe, maybe not staged. Soldiers on both sides in Lebanon
    have been shown displaying flags. And it has become a
    traditional photo. Two of the best-known photos from WW II,
    the flag raising on Iwo Jima and the Russian soldier in
    Berlin with the Soviet flag - were staged. I don't think
    there has been any talk that the photos misrepresent the
    feelings of the soldiers in them.

    And the famous photo of MacArthur wading ashore on Leyte was
    staged - by MacArthur himself. The photographer just
    recorded it.
    Marvin, Aug 16, 2006
    #7
  8. wrote:
    > In le message del 16 Aug 2006 07:51:52 -0700, ha
    > scripte:
    >
    > .
    >>> Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this photo
    >>> with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?

    >> The minute size of this picture makes determining if it is a fake very
    >> difficult.
    >> It looks like it has had it's contrast tweeked a bit to achieve the
    >> very clean looking flag.
    >> There simply isn't enough detail present to tell if there has been any
    >> obvious photoshopping, other than a contrast tweek.

    >
    > I've seen a video of soldiers holding a flag and smiling on the IDF
    > website, but the problem is that that photo seems an obvious fake to me.
    >
    > I've managed to find a bigger jpg...
    >
    > http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060815/i/r3832144093.jpg


    Hmm, that flag definitely does not look right: too clean, no real folds,
    the edges of the soldiers arms a bit too sharp. But they look as though
    they were carrying *something*, so maybe it's just that their flag was a
    bit tatty and a nice clean one has been imported...
    Geoff Realname, Aug 16, 2006
    #8
  9. Kevin Agard Guest

    wrote:
    > In le message del 16 Aug 2006 07:51:52 -0700, ha
    > scripte:
    >
    > .
    >>> Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this photo
    >>> with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?

    >> The minute size of this picture makes determining if it is a fake very
    >> difficult.
    >> It looks like it has had it's contrast tweeked a bit to achieve the
    >> very clean looking flag.
    >> There simply isn't enough detail present to tell if there has been any
    >> obvious photoshopping, other than a contrast tweek.

    >
    > I've seen a video of soldiers holding a flag and smiling on the IDF
    > website, but the problem is that that photo seems an obvious fake to me.


    What *exactly* is it that is so "obviously" faked to you?

    I took the larger image you referenced into an editor an took a closer
    look at it and there is noting that jumps out at me looking at it pixel
    by pixel.

    I think the problem with it is that it's a low res, low quality shot.

    But then again, I'm not a photo analyst.

    KMA
    Kevin Agard, Aug 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Guest

    Kevin Agard wrote:

    > wrote:
    > > In le message del 16 Aug 2006 07:51:52 -0700, ha
    > > scripte:
    > >
    > > .
    > >>> Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this photo
    > >>> with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?
    > >> The minute size of this picture makes determining if it is a fake very
    > >> difficult.
    > >> It looks like it has had it's contrast tweeked a bit to achieve the
    > >> very clean looking flag.
    > >> There simply isn't enough detail present to tell if there has been any
    > >> obvious photoshopping, other than a contrast tweek.

    > >
    > > I've seen a video of soldiers holding a flag and smiling on the IDF
    > > website, but the problem is that that photo seems an obvious fake to me.

    >
    > What *exactly* is it that is so "obviously" faked to you?
    >
    > I took the larger image you referenced into an editor an took a closer
    > look at it and there is noting that jumps out at me looking at it pixel
    > by pixel.
    >
    > I think the problem with it is that it's a low res, low quality shot.
    >
    > But then again, I'm not a photo analyst.
    >
    > KMA


    In the link supplied by :
    <http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060815/i/r3832144093.jpg>
    It becomes more obvious (to me, at least) that the image isn't fake
    (possibly staged, but not photoshopped), it's just the contrast in
    colour between to stark white and blue of the flag versus the muddy
    reds of the land and greens of the army uniforms that makes it look a
    bit "suspicious", especialy at the tiny size of the picture we were
    original pointed to.
    If you look closely at the photo, you can see the shadows of the
    soldiers in front of them on the ground, so the flag has been lit up by
    the sun shining onto it from above and behind.
    , Aug 17, 2006
    #10
  11. no_name Guest

    Marvin wrote:

    > Roy G wrote:
    >
    >> <> wrote in message

    >
    >
    >> It might be faked, or staged.
    >>
    >> I don't think so because the BBC news showed a clip of Israeli solders
    >> returning from Lebanon and 2 of them were holding a flag stretched out
    >> between them, exactly like this.
    >>
    >> I did think the flag looked a bit too clean, while the soldiers looked
    >> very grubby, so there was probably an Israeli PR person, with a supply
    >> of nice clean flags, just out of shot
    >>
    >> Roy G
    >>

    >
    > Maybe, maybe not staged. Soldiers on both sides in Lebanon have been
    > shown displaying flags. And it has become a traditional photo. Two of
    > the best-known photos from WW II, the flag raising on Iwo Jima and the
    > Russian soldier in Berlin with the Soviet flag - were staged. I don't
    > think there has been any talk that the photos misrepresent the feelings
    > of the soldiers in them.
    >


    The Iwo photo is not staged. It's just not well known what was
    photographed. Most people think it's the first flag being raised atop
    Mt. Suribachi, when in fact the Marines were replacing that first flag
    with a larger one.

    This from the notes at: http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq87-3l.htm

    "The first flag, measuring 54x28 inches, was obtained from attack
    transport USS Missoula (APA-211), and raised on a 20-foot section of
    pipe at 10:20 a.m. Several hours later, an 8-foot-long battle ensign,
    obtained from tank landing ship LST-779, was raised, resulting in
    Associated Press photographer Joe Rosenthal's famous photograph of the
    flag raising. This photograph inspired the bronze monument to the Marine
    Corps by Felix de Welden located near Arlington National Cemetery."

    Joe Rosenthal saw the flag already up, but went up the hill anyway. When
    he got to the top he found some Marines getting ready to put up a larger
    flag, because "the Col down below wants a bigger flag so it can be seen
    by the troops all over the island."

    "I wasn't referring to ... the importance of first flag, second flag ...
    I wanted a flag going up on Iwo, and ... I could only hope that it
    turned out the way that I looked at it through the finder."

    http://www.newseum.org/warstories/i...?id=32&anecdotenum=2&filename=bio_rosenthal_2

    > And the famous photo of MacArthur wading ashore on Leyte was staged - by
    > MacArthur himself. The photographer just recorded it.
    no_name, Aug 17, 2006
    #11
  12. no_name Guest

    Geoff Realname wrote:

    > wrote:
    >
    >> In le message del 16 Aug 2006 07:51:52 -0700, ha
    >> scripte:
    >>
    >> .
    >>
    >>>> Is it me who has read about the beirut fakes the other day or this
    >>>> photo
    >>>> with the two grunts holding a flag is doctored too ?
    >>>
    >>> The minute size of this picture makes determining if it is a fake very
    >>> difficult.
    >>> It looks like it has had it's contrast tweeked a bit to achieve the
    >>> very clean looking flag.
    >>> There simply isn't enough detail present to tell if there has been any
    >>> obvious photoshopping, other than a contrast tweek.

    >>
    >>
    >> I've seen a video of soldiers holding a flag and smiling on the IDF
    >> website, but the problem is that that photo seems an obvious fake to me.
    >>
    >> I've managed to find a bigger jpg...
    >>
    >> http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060815/i/r3832144093.jpg

    >
    >
    > Hmm, that flag definitely does not look right: too clean, no real folds,
    > the edges of the soldiers arms a bit too sharp. But they look as though
    > they were carrying *something*, so maybe it's just that their flag was a
    > bit tatty and a nice clean one has been imported...


    If you keep it packed in your ruck, it's not going to get dirty.
    no_name, Aug 17, 2006
    #12
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