IDE laptop drives at a reasonable price?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one or two,
    maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop drives at a price
    that won't prevent me from eating for months?

    My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch Tradme
    dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that will keep my busy
    and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying to on-sell as I simply
    don't have the capital to buy in that 'sector' of laptops. Most of mine are
    as slow as a single-core Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the fatser memory
    bus in the Atom-equipped netbooks.)

    However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them have 20,
    30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that putting a newer
    5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas! From what I can see a new
    80GB IDE drive is around the same price as a 500GB SATA HDD, if not dearer!

    LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the HDDs to
    upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(

    I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it doesn't look
    good. This post is almost a last resort really. I *know* that a PIII /
    1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with a 4,200rpm HDD startup
    and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly a hobby for me
    I'd like to be able to use these things from time-to-time as well as just
    refurbish them.

    TIA for any help.
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 22, 2011
    #1
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  2. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Tony wrote:
    > Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net dot nz> wrote:
    >> "~misfit~" <> wrote:
    >>> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one
    >>> or two, maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop
    >>> drives at a price that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>>
    >>> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch
    >>> Tradme dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that
    >>> will keep my busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really
    >>> buying to on-sell as I simply don't have the capital to buy in that
    >>> 'sector' of laptops. Most of mine are as slow as a single-core
    >>> Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the fatser memory bus in the
    >>> Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >>>
    >>> However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them
    >>> have 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that
    >>> putting a newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas!
    >>> From what I can see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price
    >>> as a 500GB SATA HDD, if not dearer!
    >>>
    >>> LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the
    >>> HDDs to upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>>
    >>> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it
    >>> doesn't look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I
    >>> *know* that a PIII /
    >>> 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with a 4,200rpm HDD
    >>> startup and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly
    >>> a hobby for me I'd like to be able to use these things from
    >>> time-to-time as well as just refurbish them.
    >>>
    >>> TIA for any help.
    >>> --
    >>> Shaun.
    >>>
    >>> "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become
    >>> a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes
    >>> also
    >>> into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

    >>
    >> Have you tried Grays On Line
    >> http://www.graysonline.co.nz/
    >> I have purchased several computers from them. They come without any
    >> OS or software but are usually well priced.
    >> Be sure to be aware some are indicated as faulty.
    >> Tony

    >
    > Sorry I just re-read your post and see that you you need some drives
    > not whole units but they may still have something nice and cheap.
    > Tony


    Thanks Tony, it's been a long time since I looked at Grays, I'll give it
    another go.

    All the best for the long weekend.
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 22, 2011
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~

    Murray Symon Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    > As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one or two,
    > maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop drives at a price
    > that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >
    > My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch Tradme
    > dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that will keep my
    > busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying to on-sell as I
    > simply don't have the capital to buy in that 'sector' of laptops. Most of
    > mine are as slow as a single-core Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the
    > fatser memory bus in the Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >
    > However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them have
    > 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that putting a
    > newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas! From what I can
    > see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price as a 500GB SATA HDD, if
    > not dearer!
    >
    > LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the HDDs to
    > upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >
    > I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it doesn't
    > look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I *know* that a PIII
    > / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with a 4,200rpm HDD
    > startup and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly a
    > hobby for me I'd like to be able to use these things from time-to-time as
    > well as just refurbish them.
    >
    > TIA for any help.



    I just recently had the original IBM drive finally fail in my T23.
    I bit the bullet and bought a new 5400 rpm drive from Ascent.
    My choice of Ascent was based purely on being my "preferred supplier".
    Older tech can be a lot dearer due to the dynamics of supply & demand.

    Anyway, I can tell you that the new 5400 RPM drive performs far better
    that the original IBM 4200 RPM drive. Boot time is nearly halved and
    transfer speed is more than doubled (still not getting to 100MB/s).
     
    Murray Symon, Apr 23, 2011
    #3
  4. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    On 2011-04-23, Murray Symon <> wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one or two,
    >> maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop drives at a price
    >> that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>
    >> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch Tradme
    >> dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that will keep my
    >> busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying to on-sell as I
    >> simply don't have the capital to buy in that 'sector' of laptops. Most of
    >> mine are as slow as a single-core Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the
    >> fatser memory bus in the Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >>
    >> However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them have
    >> 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that putting a
    >> newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas! From what I can
    >> see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price as a 500GB SATA HDD, if
    >> not dearer!
    >>
    >> LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the HDDs to
    >> upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>
    >> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it doesn't
    >> look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I *know* that a PIII
    >> / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with a 4,200rpm HDD
    >> startup and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly a
    >> hobby for me I'd like to be able to use these things from time-to-time as
    >> well as just refurbish them.
    >>
    >> TIA for any help.

    >
    >
    > I just recently had the original IBM drive finally fail in my T23.
    > I bit the bullet and bought a new 5400 rpm drive from Ascent.
    > My choice of Ascent was based purely on being my "preferred supplier".
    > Older tech can be a lot dearer due to the dynamics of supply & demand.
    >
    > Anyway, I can tell you that the new 5400 RPM drive performs far better
    > that the original IBM 4200 RPM drive. Boot time is nearly halved and
    > transfer speed is more than doubled (still not getting to 100MB/s).


    So you and misfit agree on this point, like power freaks of internal
    combustion engines. More revs is alaways better for power. The limits gather
    quickly though after a certain point
     
    Gordon, Apr 23, 2011
    #4
  5. ~misfit~

    Murray Symon Guest

    Gordon wrote:

    > On 2011-04-23, Murray Symon <> wrote:
    >> ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>
    >>> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one or
    >>> two, maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop drives at a
    >>> price that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>>
    >>> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch Tradme
    >>> dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that will keep my
    >>> busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying to on-sell as I
    >>> simply don't have the capital to buy in that 'sector' of laptops. Most
    >>> of mine are as slow as a single-core Atom, if not slower. (Not taking
    >>> the fatser memory bus in the Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >>>
    >>> However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them have
    >>> 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that putting a
    >>> newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas! From what I can
    >>> see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price as a 500GB SATA HDD,
    >>> if not dearer!
    >>>
    >>> LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the HDDs
    >>> to upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>>
    >>> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it doesn't
    >>> look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I *know* that a
    >>> PIII / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with a 4,200rpm
    >>> HDD startup and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly
    >>> a hobby for me I'd like to be able to use these things from time-to-time
    >>> as well as just refurbish them.
    >>>
    >>> TIA for any help.

    >>
    >>
    >> I just recently had the original IBM drive finally fail in my T23.
    >> I bit the bullet and bought a new 5400 rpm drive from Ascent.
    >> My choice of Ascent was based purely on being my "preferred supplier".
    >> Older tech can be a lot dearer due to the dynamics of supply & demand.
    >>
    >> Anyway, I can tell you that the new 5400 RPM drive performs far better
    >> that the original IBM 4200 RPM drive. Boot time is nearly halved and
    >> transfer speed is more than doubled (still not getting to 100MB/s).

    >
    > So you and misfit agree on this point, like power freaks of internal
    > combustion engines. More revs is alaways better for power. The limits
    > gather quickly though after a certain point


    An added bonus to the larger capacity (10x, in fact) is having more
    data passing under the heads at each cylinder, without requiring
    physical movement to the next cylinder. Plus larger cache buffer and
    higher UDMA mode support all help to improve things.
     
    Murray Symon, Apr 23, 2011
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Murray Symon wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >
    >> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one
    >> or two, maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop
    >> drives at a price that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>
    >> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch
    >> Tradme dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that
    >> will keep my busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying
    >> to on-sell as I simply don't have the capital to buy in that
    >> 'sector' of laptops. Most of mine are as slow as a single-core Atom,
    >> if not slower. (Not taking the fatser memory bus in the
    >> Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >>
    >> However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them
    >> have 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that
    >> putting a newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas!
    >> From what I can see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price as
    >> a 500GB SATA HDD, if not dearer!
    >>
    >> LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the
    >> HDDs to upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>
    >> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it
    >> doesn't look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I
    >> *know* that a PIII / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but,
    >> with a 4,200rpm HDD startup and load times are just abysmal. Even
    >> though this is mostly a hobby for me I'd like to be able to use
    >> these things from time-to-time as well as just refurbish them.
    >>
    >> TIA for any help.

    >
    >
    > I just recently had the original IBM drive finally fail in my T23.
    > I bit the bullet and bought a new 5400 rpm drive from Ascent.
    > My choice of Ascent was based purely on being my "preferred supplier".
    > Older tech can be a lot dearer due to the dynamics of supply & demand.


    Yes, so very true. It's just a shame that an interface that was mainstream
    just five years ago is now considered "older tech". I'm all for newer /
    faster / better but I wish "they" wouldn't /obsolete/ the previous tech so
    damn quickly! I mean, sheeee-it, I've got a couple machines here that use
    IDE HDDs that are more than adequate (and faster than new netbooks) but, as
    you say, the dynamics of supply & demand mean that I'm paying ~10x the price
    per GB for storage

    Ok, I know how 'the commercial model' works and all that but surely we can't
    really be shitting on our planet to the extent that, for the lack of a
    faster HDD and some more RAM, perfectly capable computers are being turned
    into landfill?

    I have an IBM ThinkPad X31 here that is actually a *very* capable machine.
    All that it lacks is more storage space (larger HDD) and a bit more RAM.
    Leaving the RAM issue aside for now as the difference between SDRAM and DDR3
    RAM is huge... The difference between IDE HDDs and a SATA HDD is basically a
    few chips and the connector. They have probably 90%+ parts in common...

    Why then are IDE drives nearly 10x the price per GB when the CPUs in these ~
    8 - 10 year old machines are just as powerful, if not more so as the Atom
    CPUs in netbooks? It's really pissing me off.

    > Anyway, I can tell you that the new 5400 RPM drive performs far better
    > that the original IBM 4200 RPM drive. Boot time is nearly halved and
    > transfer speed is more than doubled (still not getting to 100MB/s).


    Oh, I don't doubt it. Sometime last year Seagate Momentus laptop drives
    vanished from the NZ market and they had some sweet 7,200rpm drives in the
    line-up. However even the WD 5,400rpm drives are fast (lightning fast
    compared with 10 y/o 4,200rpm drives) and actually use less power with the
    fluid dynamic bearings and large on-board caches.

    The last two laptop IDE drives I bought were WD 80GB (as money's tight and
    times are hard). They are single-platter high aureal density and actually
    use significantly less power than the older 4,200rpm drives I've replaced. I
    just think that it's criminal that they cost about the same as a SATA 500GB
    7,200rpm HDD. The difference that said HDD swap makes to an ~8 y/o laptop is
    huge. You've got to wonder what one of the now-unattainable Seagate 7,200rpm
    drives would have made! (Not getting into the whole SSD thing here...)

    Is it a conspiracy? Are "they" making it too expensive to upgrade an
    otherwise perfectly good laptop in the hope that we'll go out and buy a
    12-month warranty thin plastic, refective screen (but oh so trendy) netbook
    instead of a rock-solid time-tested machine that will run rings around the
    Atom...

    ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!! Sorry, just getting annoyed that these beautifully made and
    still very useful machines are being pushed out by plastic shite. For what
    it costs me to put a decent size IDE HDD and to max out the RAM into an X30
    / X31 I'm half-way to the cost of a new nutbook. Sorry, *net*book. The
    keyboard on an X31 is such a pleasure to use and the whole machine just
    oozes class, far more class than a EEEeeeeeeeee could dream of attaining....

    Ok, rant over. Still, the question remains, where can I get new (or nearly
    so) laptop IDE HDDs? Perhaps the 'economic model' is different in another
    country and ordering from overseas is an option??

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 23, 2011
    #6
  7. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Gordon wrote:
    > On 2011-04-23, Murray Symon <>
    > wrote:
    >> ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>
    >>> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one
    >>> or two, maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop
    >>> drives at a price that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>>
    >>> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch
    >>> Tradme dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that
    >>> will keep my busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really
    >>> buying to on-sell as I simply don't have the capital to buy in that
    >>> 'sector' of laptops. Most of mine are as slow as a single-core
    >>> Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the fatser memory bus in the
    >>> Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >>>
    >>> However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them
    >>> have 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that
    >>> putting a newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas!
    >>> From what I can see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price
    >>> as a 500GB SATA HDD, if not dearer!
    >>>
    >>> LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the
    >>> HDDs to upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>>
    >>> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it
    >>> doesn't look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I
    >>> *know* that a PIII / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy
    >>> but, with a 4,200rpm HDD startup and load times are just abysmal.
    >>> Even though this is mostly a hobby for me I'd like to be able to
    >>> use these things from time-to-time as well as just refurbish them.
    >>>
    >>> TIA for any help.

    >>
    >>
    >> I just recently had the original IBM drive finally fail in my T23.
    >> I bit the bullet and bought a new 5400 rpm drive from Ascent.
    >> My choice of Ascent was based purely on being my "preferred
    >> supplier". Older tech can be a lot dearer due to the dynamics of
    >> supply & demand.
    >>
    >> Anyway, I can tell you that the new 5400 RPM drive performs far
    >> better that the original IBM 4200 RPM drive. Boot time is nearly
    >> halved and transfer speed is more than doubled (still not getting to
    >> 100MB/s).

    >
    > So you and misfit agree on this point, like power freaks of internal
    > combustion engines.


    Or like some other group who agree on an obvious point, without the implied
    put-down? Faster HDDs don't use more power but they produce hugely better
    results.

    > More revs is alaways better for power.


    Power? nz.comp remember.....

    > The limits
    > gather quickly though after a certain point


    Okay, I hope you enjoyed your easter saturday.
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 23, 2011
    #7
  8. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Murray Symon wrote:
    > Gordon wrote:
    >
    >> On 2011-04-23, Murray Symon <>
    >> wrote:
    >>> ~misfit~ wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one
    >>>> or two, maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop
    >>>> drives at a price that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>>>
    >>>> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch
    >>>> Tradme dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that
    >>>> will keep my busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really
    >>>> buying to on-sell as I simply don't have the capital to buy in
    >>>> that 'sector' of laptops. Most of mine are as slow as a
    >>>> single-core Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the fatser memory bus
    >>>> in the Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >>>>
    >>>> However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them
    >>>> have 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience
    >>>> that putting a newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable.
    >>>> Alas! From what I can see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same
    >>>> price as a 500GB SATA HDD, if not dearer!
    >>>>
    >>>> LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the
    >>>> HDDs to upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>>>
    >>>> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it
    >>>> doesn't look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I
    >>>> *know* that a PIII / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy
    >>>> but, with a 4,200rpm HDD startup and load times are just abysmal.
    >>>> Even though this is mostly a hobby for me I'd like to be able to
    >>>> use these things from time-to-time as well as just refurbish them.
    >>>>
    >>>> TIA for any help.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> I just recently had the original IBM drive finally fail in my T23.
    >>> I bit the bullet and bought a new 5400 rpm drive from Ascent.
    >>> My choice of Ascent was based purely on being my "preferred
    >>> supplier". Older tech can be a lot dearer due to the dynamics of
    >>> supply & demand.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, I can tell you that the new 5400 RPM drive performs far
    >>> better that the original IBM 4200 RPM drive. Boot time is nearly
    >>> halved and transfer speed is more than doubled (still not getting
    >>> to 100MB/s).

    >>
    >> So you and misfit agree on this point, like power freaks of internal
    >> combustion engines. More revs is alaways better for power. The limits
    >> gather quickly though after a certain point

    >
    > An added bonus to the larger capacity (10x, in fact) is having more
    > data passing under the heads at each cylinder, without requiring
    > physical movement to the next cylinder. Plus larger cache buffer and
    > higher UDMA mode support all help to improve things.


    Exactly so. All without putting more power into the drive. Better bearings
    and improved electronics give essentially *free* improvements. It would be
    wonderful if IDE HDDs didn't cost essentially 10x what SATA HDDs cost on a
    GB / GB basis.
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 23, 2011
    #8
  9. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Richard wrote:
    > On 22/04/2011 4:50 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one
    >> or two, maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop
    >> drives at a price that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>
    >> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch
    >> Tradme dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that
    >> will keep my busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying
    >> to on-sell as I simply don't have the capital to buy in that
    >> 'sector' of laptops. Most of mine are as slow as a single-core Atom,
    >> if not slower. (Not taking the fatser memory bus in the
    >> Atom-equipped netbooks.) However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD.
    >> Quite a few of them
    >> have 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that
    >> putting a newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas!
    >> From what I can see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price as
    >> a 500GB SATA HDD, if not dearer! LOL, now that the laptops are affordable
    >> for me to 'play' with the
    >> HDDs to upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>
    >> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it
    >> doesn't look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I
    >> *know* that a PIII / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with
    >> a 4,200rpm HDD
    >> startup and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly
    >> a hobby for me I'd like to be able to use these things from
    >> time-to-time as well as just refurbish them.
    >>
    >> TIA for any help.

    >
    > I gave up and got a caddy off the internet to take a sata drive in
    > where the optical one was on my thinkpad.


    I have one of those for one of my ThinkPads. They utilise a 'lowest bidder'
    bridge-chip to convert SATA signals to PATA and tend to be rather
    inefficient. However they *do* allow the use of much larger HDDs.

    That said the ThinkPads that I've been 'playing wth' recently (X3x range)
    are 'ultraportables' and don't have an optical drive to swap for a SATA
    drive. That said though they're brilliant little machines.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 23, 2011
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    PeeCee Guest

    On 22/04/2011 4:50 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    > As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one or two,
    > maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop drives at a price
    > that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >
    > My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch Tradme
    > dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that will keep my busy
    > and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying to on-sell as I simply
    > don't have the capital to buy in that 'sector' of laptops. Most of mine are
    > as slow as a single-core Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the fatser memory
    > bus in the Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >
    > However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them have 20,
    > 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that putting a newer
    > 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas! From what I can see a new
    > 80GB IDE drive is around the same price as a 500GB SATA HDD, if not dearer!
    >
    > LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the HDDs to
    > upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >
    > I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it doesn't look
    > good. This post is almost a last resort really. I *know* that a PIII /
    > 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with a 4,200rpm HDD startup
    > and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly a hobby for me
    > I'd like to be able to use these things from time-to-time as well as just
    > refurbish them.
    >
    > TIA for any help.



    Hi Shaun

    Wish you the best of luck.

    I did a pile of T,R & X series Thinkpads last year with locked
    motherboards for a colleague. They were 'very' cheap but my colleague
    despite having much better industry contacts than I, hasn't been able to
    source cheap hard drives in the six months since I did the job.

    Best
    Paul.
     
    PeeCee, Apr 24, 2011
    #10
  11. ~misfit~

    Murray Symon Guest

    PeeCee wrote:

    > On 22/04/2011 4:50 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> As the subject says, does anyone know where I can get at least one or
    >> two, maybe up to three new, or at least *modern* IDE laptop drives at a
    >> price that won't prevent me from eating for months?
    >>
    >> My hobby is playing with older ThinkPads these days. If I watch Tradme
    >> dilligently enough I can, now and then, get a bargain that will keep my
    >> busy and happy for quite a while. I'm not really buying to on-sell as I
    >> simply don't have the capital to buy in that 'sector' of laptops. Most of
    >> mine are as slow as a single-core Atom, if not slower. (Not taking the
    >> fatser memory bus in the Atom-equipped netbooks.)
    >>
    >> However they'd sure benefit from a faster HDD. Quite a few of them have
    >> 20, 30 or 40GB 4,200rpm drives and I know from experience that putting a
    >> newer 5,400rpm drive makes them *way* more usable. Alas! From what I can
    >> see a new 80GB IDE drive is around the same price as a 500GB SATA HDD, if
    >> not dearer!
    >>
    >> LOL, now that the laptops are affordable for me to 'play' with the HDDs
    >> to upgrade them a bit aren't. :-(
    >>
    >> I've looked at all of my bookmarked NZ computer dealers and it doesn't
    >> look good. This post is almost a last resort really. I *know* that a PIII
    >> / 1.2GHz equipped laptop can be quite snappy but, with a 4,200rpm HDD
    >> startup and load times are just abysmal. Even though this is mostly a
    >> hobby for me I'd like to be able to use these things from time-to-time as
    >> well as just refurbish them.
    >>
    >> TIA for any help.

    >
    >
    > Hi Shaun
    >
    > Wish you the best of luck.
    >
    > I did a pile of T,R & X series Thinkpads last year with locked
    > motherboards for a colleague. They were 'very' cheap but my colleague
    > despite having much better industry contacts than I, hasn't been able to
    > source cheap hard drives in the six months since I did the job.
    >
    > Best
    > Paul.


    There is a lot of engineering technology in a hard drive that would set
    a certain level of "base-line" cost, regardless of speed and capacity.
    Also, hard drive manufacturing competition is now at an all-time low
    after the recent acquisition of Samsung's HDD division by Seagate.
    Now there are only two main suppliers of HDDs: Seagate and Western Digital.
     
    Murray Symon, Apr 24, 2011
    #11
  12. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Murray Symon wrote:
    [snip]
    > There is a lot of engineering technology in a hard drive that would
    > set
    > a certain level of "base-line" cost, regardless of speed and capacity.
    > Also, hard drive manufacturing competition is now at an all-time low
    > after the recent acquisition of Samsung's HDD division by Seagate.
    > Now there are only two main suppliers of HDDs: Seagate and Western
    > Digital.


    Agreed. However that doesn't explain why a single-platter / two head 80GB
    5,400rpm IDE drive costs $92 and for a similar price I can get a 320GB
    7,200rpm SATA drive that uses two platters / three heads.

    I know, I know. Supply and demand and higher volume of units made means
    lower over-all price. However the difference is huge and there are still a
    lot of folks using laptops with IDE drives. :-/

    If you want an excercise in futility try to find a fast SLC SSD in IDE
    format. Some of the later machines that were equipped with an IDE interface
    are still extremely capable and in fact run Windows 7 perfectly. These
    laptops would benefit from the extra speed of an SSD most yet you can't get
    one. The best you can do is try to cobble together an IDE - CF adapter and
    find a fast SLC CF card....

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 24, 2011
    #12
  13. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs PeeCee wrote:
    > On 22/04/2011 4:50 p.m., ~misfit~ wrote:

    [snip]
    >> TIA for any help.

    >
    > Hi Shaun
    >
    > Wish you the best of luck.
    >
    > I did a pile of T,R & X series Thinkpads last year with locked
    > motherboards for a colleague. They were 'very' cheap but my colleague
    > despite having much better industry contacts than I, hasn't been able
    > to source cheap hard drives in the six months since I did the job.


    Thanks Paul.

    As I feared then. :-( It's so dissapointing to refurbish an older ThinkPad,
    or even re-build using parts from various sources only to have it I/O bound
    due to running an ~8 y/o 4,200rpm HDD when everything else's been sorted. I
    know that dropping a 5,400rpm drive into it would make it much more usable,
    not to mention a 7,200rpm drive. However I haven't seen a 7,200rpm IDE HDD
    for sale (new) in NZ in the ~four years I've been working on ThinkPads.

    I do this as a hobby more than anything. Although I've sold a couple of
    ThinkPads I'm certainly not making money out of them that's for sure. It
    keeps me occupied and out of the crack houses (<g>) as, now and then, if I
    search Trademe dilligently I can find something that will keep me busy for
    quite a while at a price I can swing. (If I knew how to unlock them I could
    likely do even better! ;-) I see the odd one go *very* cheap as it's
    locked.) I enjoy working with ThinkPads and learning about them, they're so
    well-made and there is plenty of documentation available to help with
    dis/assembly.

    LOL. I'm getting quite a collection now. I've had folks who know how broke I
    am ask why I don't sell (more of) them. They don't seem to understand that,
    for the small amount of money I'd get for them compared with the time I've
    put into them, plus money for RAM etcetera and the pleasure I get from them,
    selling them isn't really an option. Most are what the average l/user would
    consider obsolete and therefore I'd not get much for them. I value them much
    more highly than the average mook on Trademe.

    I hope you're well and healthy mate, best to you and yours.
    --
    Shaun.

    P.S. I don't suppose your mate has a spare working lid, (or just screen and
    inverter) for an X31? I have an excellent specimen that lacks both. The CFL
    is had it and so's the inverter.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 24, 2011
    #13
  14. ~misfit~

    David Empson Guest

    ~misfit~ <> wrote:

    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs Murray Symon wrote:
    > [snip]
    > > There is a lot of engineering technology in a hard drive that would
    > > set
    > > a certain level of "base-line" cost, regardless of speed and capacity.
    > > Also, hard drive manufacturing competition is now at an all-time low
    > > after the recent acquisition of Samsung's HDD division by Seagate.
    > > Now there are only two main suppliers of HDDs: Seagate and Western
    > > Digital.

    >
    > Agreed. However that doesn't explain why a single-platter / two head 80GB
    > 5,400rpm IDE drive costs $92 and for a similar price I can get a 320GB
    > 7,200rpm SATA drive that uses two platters / three heads.


    I can think of three interconnected reasons:

    1. Massive difference in economies of scale. SATA drives have been the
    standard for laptops for about five years, longer for desktops. The
    number of new computers (especially laptops) being sold has been growing
    most years, so more and more SATA drives are being sold for new
    computers, and for aftermarket sales for recent laptops, and for
    external portable hard drives. Older laptops are more likely to wear out
    than new ones, so the number of sales of IDE drives as replacements for
    old laptops will be shrinking each year.

    2. Because of reduced sales, hard drive manufacters stopped doing major
    technology development on IDE drives, and most manufacturers stopped
    development and/or manufacture completely. SATA drives have continued to
    advance, resulting in performance and capacity improvements for SATA
    drives while IDE drives are left behind. In effect, the IDE drives are a
    design which is several years old.

    3. I expect that reduced competition due to fewer manufacturers has
    resulted in lack of price pressure on IDE drives, while it is still a
    factor for SATA drives.

    > I know, I know. Supply and demand and higher volume of units made means
    > lower over-all price. However the difference is huge and there are still a
    > lot of folks using laptops with IDE drives. :-/


    --
    David Empson
     
    David Empson, Apr 24, 2011
    #14
  15. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs David Empson wrote:
    > ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    >
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Murray Symon wrote:
    >> [snip]
    >>> There is a lot of engineering technology in a hard drive that would
    >>> set
    >>> a certain level of "base-line" cost, regardless of speed and
    >>> capacity. Also, hard drive manufacturing competition is now at an
    >>> all-time low after the recent acquisition of Samsung's HDD division
    >>> by Seagate. Now there are only two main suppliers of HDDs: Seagate
    >>> and Western Digital.

    >>
    >> Agreed. However that doesn't explain why a single-platter / two head
    >> 80GB 5,400rpm IDE drive costs $92 and for a similar price I can get
    >> a 320GB 7,200rpm SATA drive that uses two platters / three heads.

    >
    > I can think of three interconnected reasons:
    >
    > 1. Massive difference in economies of scale. SATA drives have been the
    > standard for laptops for about five years, longer for desktops. The
    > number of new computers (especially laptops) being sold has been
    > growing most years, so more and more SATA drives are being sold for
    > new computers, and for aftermarket sales for recent laptops, and for
    > external portable hard drives. Older laptops are more likely to wear
    > out than new ones, so the number of sales of IDE drives as
    > replacements for old laptops will be shrinking each year.


    Yep, that's what I tried to say in the paragraph below.

    > 2. Because of reduced sales, hard drive manufacters stopped doing
    > major technology development on IDE drives, and most manufacturers
    > stopped development and/or manufacture completely. SATA drives have
    > continued to advance, resulting in performance and capacity
    > improvements for SATA drives while IDE drives are left behind. In
    > effect, the IDE drives are a design which is several years old.


    Actually there's nothing left to 'develop'. The interface is what it is and
    doesn't need to change while the platters don't care if they're in a SATA or
    an IDE drive so development in increased aureal density *could* be very
    easilly used to benefit IDE drives. Yet it isn't being used, they've
    essentially frozen the capacities at what they were when IDE ceased to be
    used in new machines. Odd.

    > 3. I expect that reduced competition due to fewer manufacturers has
    > resulted in lack of price pressure on IDE drives, while it is still a
    > factor for SATA drives.


    But... How does that work? There are the same number of manufacturers for
    both SATA *and* IDE? The two types of drives have probably 80% of components
    in common.... <still scratching head over the above>
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

    >> I know, I know. Supply and demand and higher volume of units made
    >> means lower over-all price. However the difference is huge and there
    >> are still a lot of folks using laptops with IDE drives. :-/
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 24, 2011
    #15
  16. ~misfit~

    David Empson Guest

    ~misfit~ <> wrote:

    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs David Empson wrote:
    > > ~misfit~ <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs Murray Symon wrote:
    > >> [snip]
    > >>> There is a lot of engineering technology in a hard drive that would
    > >>> set
    > >>> a certain level of "base-line" cost, regardless of speed and
    > >>> capacity. Also, hard drive manufacturing competition is now at an
    > >>> all-time low after the recent acquisition of Samsung's HDD division
    > >>> by Seagate. Now there are only two main suppliers of HDDs: Seagate
    > >>> and Western Digital.
    > >>
    > >> Agreed. However that doesn't explain why a single-platter / two head
    > >> 80GB 5,400rpm IDE drive costs $92 and for a similar price I can get
    > >> a 320GB 7,200rpm SATA drive that uses two platters / three heads.

    > >
    > > I can think of three interconnected reasons:
    > >
    > > 1. Massive difference in economies of scale. SATA drives have been the
    > > standard for laptops for about five years, longer for desktops. The
    > > number of new computers (especially laptops) being sold has been
    > > growing most years, so more and more SATA drives are being sold for
    > > new computers, and for aftermarket sales for recent laptops, and for
    > > external portable hard drives. Older laptops are more likely to wear
    > > out than new ones, so the number of sales of IDE drives as
    > > replacements for old laptops will be shrinking each year.

    >
    > Yep, that's what I tried to say in the paragraph below.
    >
    > > 2. Because of reduced sales, hard drive manufacters stopped doing
    > > major technology development on IDE drives, and most manufacturers
    > > stopped development and/or manufacture completely. SATA drives have
    > > continued to advance, resulting in performance and capacity
    > > improvements for SATA drives while IDE drives are left behind. In
    > > effect, the IDE drives are a design which is several years old.

    >
    > Actually there's nothing left to 'develop'. The interface is what it is and
    > doesn't need to change while the platters don't care if they're in a SATA or
    > an IDE drive so development in increased aureal density *could* be very
    > easilly used to benefit IDE drives. Yet it isn't being used, they've
    > essentially frozen the capacities at what they were when IDE ceased to be
    > used in new machines. Odd.


    The interface between the controller board and the drive electronics
    could be changing over the years in some way (I have no idea), and at a
    minimum the cache and other architecture on the controllers would have
    been developed further with SATA than with IDE. Whatever the reason, the
    manufacturers aren't interesting in selling drives with new mechanisms
    and old controllers.

    > > 3. I expect that reduced competition due to fewer manufacturers has
    > > resulted in lack of price pressure on IDE drives, while it is still a
    > > factor for SATA drives.

    >
    > But... How does that work? There are the same number of manufacturers for
    > both SATA *and* IDE? The two types of drives have probably 80% of components
    > in common.... <still scratching head over the above>


    Seagate announced several years ago that they weren't making IDE drives
    any more, and they stopped being available once remaining stocks were
    exhausted.

    As far as I can see from what is available new in New Zealand, everyone
    apart from Western Digital followed suit, but I haven't checked overseas
    sources to confirm whether that is just NZ-specific. Somewhat of a moot
    point now that Seagate and WD have bought out all the other
    manufacturers.

    --
    David Empson
     
    David Empson, Apr 24, 2011
    #16
  17. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs David Empson wrote:
    > ~misfit~ <> wrote:

    [snip]
    >> Actually there's nothing left to 'develop'. The interface is what it
    >> is and doesn't need to change while the platters don't care if
    >> they're in a SATA or an IDE drive so development in increased aureal
    >> density *could* be very easilly used to benefit IDE drives. Yet it
    >> isn't being used, they've essentially frozen the capacities at what
    >> they were when IDE ceased to be used in new machines. Odd.

    >
    > The interface between the controller board and the drive electronics
    > could be changing over the years in some way (I have no idea), and at
    > a minimum the cache and other architecture on the controllers would
    > have been developed further with SATA than with IDE. Whatever the
    > reason, the manufacturers aren't interesting in selling drives with
    > new mechanisms and old controllers.


    The reason isn't that it can't be done easily and cheaply. 'Bridge chips'
    are common (see: http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?pid=79 ).
    Ok, that one goes the other way but it has an "on-board
    serializer/deserializer" and is about the size of my little finger nail.

    Ok, it might not handle 'Advanced Format' drives but WD and Seagate both
    make 'normal', 512 bytes-per-sector HDDs with capacities up to 500GB and
    spindle-speeds of 7,200rpm in their SATA flavours.

    >>> 3. I expect that reduced competition due to fewer manufacturers has
    >>> resulted in lack of price pressure on IDE drives, while it is still
    >>> a factor for SATA drives.

    >>
    >> But... How does that work? There are the same number of
    >> manufacturers for both SATA *and* IDE? The two types of drives have
    >> probably 80% of components in common.... <still scratching head over
    >> the above>

    >
    > Seagate announced several years ago that they weren't making IDE
    > drives any more, and they stopped being available once remaining
    > stocks were exhausted.


    Ok, that's one announcement that I missed.

    > As far as I can see from what is available new in New Zealand,
    > everyone apart from Western Digital followed suit, but I haven't
    > checked overseas sources to confirm whether that is just NZ-specific.


    I just had a look at Newegg, TigerDirect and a few others and it seems that
    in the US there are WD and a few odd-balls like Apricorn, CMS Products and
    Panasonic as well as what I guess is old stock, a few Toshibas and Samsungs.

    Not only that but there is just the one line of WD, 'Scorpio Blue', with
    just five models ranging from 80GB to 320GB (80, 120, 160, 250 and 320. It
    seems that the 120GB version isn't available in NZ). They are all 5,400rpm
    and have 8MB of cache. I really didn't think that IDE laptop drives would
    come to this so fast. No more fast 7,200rpm drives, nothing bigger than
    320GB.....

    Is it just me or did that happen indecently quickly? After all it was only
    five years ago that SATA drives were quite new and a lot of laptops for sale
    were still fitted with IDE drives.

    > Somewhat of a moot point now that Seagate and WD have bought out all
    > the other manufacturers.


    True. I don't have a good feeling about this having happened either. Too
    easy to 'price-fix' and in this economy, where are we if one of them goes
    under? The whole computer industry at the mercy of a single HDD supplier?
    Scary thought.
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 25, 2011
    #17
  18. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs ~misfit~ wrote:
    [snip]
    > Not only that but there is just the one line of WD, 'Scorpio Blue',
    > with just five models ranging from 80GB to 320GB (80, 120, 160, 250
    > and 320. It seems that the 120GB version isn't available in NZ). They
    > are all 5,400rpm and have 8MB of cache. I really didn't think that
    > IDE laptop drives would come to this so fast. No more fast 7,200rpm
    > drives, nothing bigger than 320GB.....


    Damn! Replying to myself now! Senility sucks.

    I meant to mention that the only hope for people such as myself who want to
    keep older hardware, not only running but running as well as it can might be
    to wait (and wait and wait). One day mSATA SSDs[*] should be affordable and
    someone's bound to make an IDE adapter. Right? Right? Awwww, c'mon!

    [*]
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/4078/intels-ssd-310-g2-performance-in-an-msata-form-factor
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 25, 2011
    #18
  19. ~misfit~

    Squiggle Guest

    On Apr 25, 1:46 pm, "~misfit~" <>
    wrote:
    > Somewhere on teh intarwebs David Empson wrote:


    > > Somewhat of a moot point now that Seagate and WD have bought out all
    > > the other manufacturers.

    >
    > True. I don't have a good feeling about this having happened either. Too
    > easy to 'price-fix' and in this economy, where are we if one of them goes
    > under? The whole computer industry at the mercy of a single HDD supplier?
    > Scary thought.


    Not really, the important thing to look at now is how many companies
    are manufacturing Solid State disks, and thankfully there are quite a
    few.
    The mechanical hard disk has entered its (gradual?) slide towards
    being a intriguing antiquity for the next generation.

    How long do you think it'll be before a 1TB usb3 (or 4?) flash drive
    costs the same as a 5 pack of blank bluray discs does now? i give it 4
    years.
     
    Squiggle, Apr 25, 2011
    #19
  20. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarwebs Squiggle wrote:
    > On Apr 25, 1:46 pm, "~misfit~" <>
    > wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarwebs David Empson wrote:

    >
    >>> Somewhat of a moot point now that Seagate and WD have bought out all
    >>> the other manufacturers.

    >>
    >> True. I don't have a good feeling about this having happened either.
    >> Too easy to 'price-fix' and in this economy, where are we if one of
    >> them goes under? The whole computer industry at the mercy of a
    >> single HDD supplier? Scary thought.

    >
    > Not really, the important thing to look at now is how many companies
    > are manufacturing Solid State disks, and thankfully there are quite a
    > few.


    True. However 90% of them are using sandforce controllers. ;-)

    > The mechanical hard disk has entered its (gradual?) slide towards
    > being a intriguing antiquity for the next generation.


    One industry analyst who's column I read seemed to think that they'd be
    around for at least another decade, probably two or three. He reckons that
    SLC NAND will never be cheap enough to compete with mechanical storage and
    that MLC NAND will always be second-rate. <shrug> He was of the opinion that
    hybrid disks will become more common. Like Seagate's XT only with more NAND
    and having essentially two 'partitions'. One being the fast (but still
    expensive) SLC NAND, for OS and programmes which benefit most from fast
    access times and the other, much larger partition being mechanical for data
    storage (and to hold a backup of the NAND).

    > How long do you think it'll be before a 1TB usb3 (or 4?) flash drive
    > costs the same as a 5 pack of blank bluray discs does now? i give it 4
    > years.


    I don't know how much a 5-pack of blu-ray discs cost.... However I do think
    that you're being optimistic. Hey, hopefully not. :)
    --
    Shaun.

    "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
    monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
    into you." Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
    ~misfit~, Apr 25, 2011
    #20
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