i-TTL and closed eyes

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Walter Hofmann, Dec 6, 2004.

  1. I frequently run into a problem and wonder what other people do to solve
    it. It seems that the delay between the i-TTL preflash and the flash
    itself is long enough such that many people manage to close their eyes
    in between (if only half-way, enough to ruin the picture). I usually
    run into this problem when doing snapshots in poorly lit rooms, so there
    is little point in "training" the model to avoid this.

    I'm using a D70 with the SB-800 flash. I thought about several methods
    to avoid this:

    1. Setting the flash to "M": Too complicated, I don't want several tries
    to get the exposure right or longish calculations.
    2. Using the GN mode and estimating the distance to the subject. Still
    requires setting a value on the flash, but this seems easy and the
    exposure will automatically be recalculated when I change the
    aperture or ISO speed rating.
    This seems to be the best method right now.

    But what I actually would like to do is this:

    3. Set the flash to AA (auto aperture). The flash will get the settings
    from the camera, but will do the exposure calculation itself. No
    preflash needed!?
    BUT: For some strange reason I don't understand the SB-800 will still
    use a preflash. Why?
    Can someone say anything about the timing for this preflash? Maybe
    the preflash-flash delay is shorter in this mode. I didn't test this.

    What works is this:

    4. Set the flash to A mode. No aperture or ISO data is sent to the
    flash. Works without preflash, but is inconvenient as I have to set
    the aperture manually on the flash.

    Any ideas?

    Walter
     
    Walter Hofmann, Dec 6, 2004
    #1
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  2. Walter Hofmann

    bmclaurin Guest

    I don't remember the exact setting, but there is a way to set a "hold"
    (that's not what it's technically called, but just how I describe it)
    between the preflash and the actual exposure. The process involves
    composing and metering the shot, which fires the preflash, but stops
    just short of capturing the actual exposure. All the right meter data,
    flash settings, etc. is stored until you continue the sequence by
    snapping the picture itself. Sorry, I don't have an external
    speedlight, so I haven't done this myself. But I did read about just
    recently, probably in the user manaual but I don't remember for sure.
    Hope that helps.
     
    bmclaurin, Dec 6, 2004
    #2
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  3. bmclaurin <> schrieb:
    > I don't remember the exact setting, but there is a way to set a "hold"
    > (that's not what it's technically called, but just how I describe it)
    > between the preflash and the actual exposure. The process involves
    > composing and metering the shot, which fires the preflash, but stops
    > just short of capturing the actual exposure. All the right meter data,
    > flash settings, etc. is stored until you continue the sequence by
    > snapping the picture itself. Sorry, I don't have an external
    > speedlight, so I haven't done this myself. But I did read about just
    > recently, probably in the user manaual but I don't remember for sure.
    > Hope that helps.


    Ah, yes. You can set the exposure lock button to flash exposure lock in
    the customs settings. If the situation allows for two flashes and a
    little delay in between, this works.

    Walter
     
    Walter Hofmann, Dec 6, 2004
    #3
  4. Walter Hofmann

    Owamanga Guest

    On 6 Dec 2004 16:38:30 GMT, Walter Hofmann <>
    wrote:

    >I frequently run into a problem and wonder what other people do to solve
    >it. It seems that the delay between the i-TTL preflash and the flash
    >itself is long enough such that many people manage to close their eyes
    >in between (if only half-way, enough to ruin the picture). I usually
    >run into this problem when doing snapshots in poorly lit rooms, so there
    >is little point in "training" the model to avoid this.
    >
    >I'm using a D70 with the SB-800 flash. I thought about several methods
    >to avoid this:
    >
    >1. Setting the flash to "M": Too complicated, I don't want several tries
    > to get the exposure right or longish calculations.
    >2. Using the GN mode and estimating the distance to the subject. Still
    > requires setting a value on the flash, but this seems easy and the
    > exposure will automatically be recalculated when I change the
    > aperture or ISO speed rating.
    > This seems to be the best method right now.
    >
    >But what I actually would like to do is this:
    >
    >3. Set the flash to AA (auto aperture). The flash will get the settings
    > from the camera, but will do the exposure calculation itself. No
    > preflash needed!?
    > BUT: For some strange reason I don't understand the SB-800 will still
    > use a preflash. Why?
    > Can someone say anything about the timing for this preflash? Maybe
    > the preflash-flash delay is shorter in this mode. I didn't test this.
    >
    >What works is this:
    >
    >4. Set the flash to A mode. No aperture or ISO data is sent to the
    > flash. Works without preflash, but is inconvenient as I have to set
    > the aperture manually on the flash.
    >
    >Any ideas?
    >
    >Walter


    Custom setting: CSM#15, AE-L/AF-L > FV Lock OK (it's off the bottom of
    the #15 submenu)

    Now use the AE-L button to fire the pre-flash (and the camera locks
    the metering information). The viewfinder will show 'EV' to the left
    of the shutter speed when the EV lock has been performed.

    Take as many photos as you need - no preflash will be performed. The
    flash value is locked until you hit the AE-L again to dismiss the
    lock, so each time you re-frame you'd want to hit AE-L twice, once to
    clear the lock and again to pre-flash and re-meter.

    You can still adjust the flash value (hold the flash button and give
    the front wheel a spin) on-camera without needing to re-perform an
    AE-L pre-flash.

    This is still iTTL, just with a long gap between the metering stage
    and the photo.

    In this mode of operation, with multi-flash setup, simple cheap
    (non-digital) slave flashes can be used because when you take the
    photo, no further pre-flashes are made that could cause premature
    eflashulation.

    Of course, any multi-flash setup without using a SB-800 or SB-600 will
    not be iTTL, the slaves in this case would need to me manually
    adjusted for power output and the whole balancing act soon becomes
    very boring, physically draining and I'll have another beer please.

    For the rest of the time, my preference for this menu #15 is:
    AE Lock Hold

    This is easier than trying to keep your thumb jammed on that AE-L
    button during framing. Focus lock is assigned to the trigger button.

    --
    Owamanga!
     
    Owamanga, Dec 7, 2004
    #4
  5. Owamanga <> schrieb:
    >
    > Custom setting: CSM#15, AE-L/AF-L > FV Lock OK (it's off the bottom of
    > the #15 submenu)
    >
    > Now use the AE-L button to fire the pre-flash (and the camera locks
    > the metering information). The viewfinder will show 'EV' to the left
    > of the shutter speed when the EV lock has been performed.
    >
    > This is still iTTL, just with a long gap between the metering stage
    > and the photo.


    I'm not so sure if this is i-TTL. When I photograph a black object with
    a white (near) background the matrix meter will correctly expose w/o
    flash-lock, but the white background will be overexposed when I use
    flash-lock (everything else unchanged).

    Walter
     
    Walter Hofmann, Dec 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Walter Hofmann

    Guest

    Kibo informs me that Walter Hofmann <> stated
    that:

    >I frequently run into a problem and wonder what other people do to solve
    >it. It seems that the delay between the i-TTL preflash and the flash
    >itself is long enough such that many people manage to close their eyes
    >in between (if only half-way, enough to ruin the picture). I usually
    >run into this problem when doing snapshots in poorly lit rooms, so there
    >is little point in "training" the model to avoid this.


    I do lots of event photogrpahy (mostly nightclubs) & this is a standard
    problem in dimly lit situations.
    My solution is very simple - I just fire off a two or three shot burst
    instead of taking a single shot. Even if the subject blinks, one of the
    shots will catch them after their eyes have opened again. This technique
    would be a bit expensive with film, but with digital, it's a no-brainer.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    , Dec 9, 2004
    #6
  7. Walter Hofmann

    David Bindle Guest

    Or...
    just hit the FE lock button with your thumb.
    That will fire the preflash and lock the exposure.
    Then (after a second or two) squeeze the shutter button and your subject
    won't have time to blink!

    Sometimes this is a good technique for getting more natural smiles.
    People often stiffen up for pictures. Right after hitting the FE lock, many
    subjects (thinking that the picture has been taken) loosen up and give a
    more natural smile. If you fire the shutter within a few seconds or so of
    firing the FE lock preflash, you might have more relaxed subjects with a
    nicer smiles.

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Kibo informs me that Walter Hofmann <> stated
    > that:
    >
    > >I frequently run into a problem and wonder what other people do to solve
    > >it. It seems that the delay between the i-TTL preflash and the flash
    > >itself is long enough such that many people manage to close their eyes
    > >in between (if only half-way, enough to ruin the picture). I usually
    > >run into this problem when doing snapshots in poorly lit rooms, so there
    > >is little point in "training" the model to avoid this.

    >
    > I do lots of event photogrpahy (mostly nightclubs) & this is a standard
    > problem in dimly lit situations.
    > My solution is very simple - I just fire off a two or three shot burst
    > instead of taking a single shot. Even if the subject blinks, one of the
    > shots will catch them after their eyes have opened again. This technique
    > would be a bit expensive with film, but with digital, it's a no-brainer.
    >
    > --
    > W
    > . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    > \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    > ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    David Bindle, Dec 16, 2004
    #7
  8. Walter Hofmann

    Guest

    Kibo informs me that "David Bindle" <> stated that:

    >Or...
    >just hit the FE lock button with your thumb.
    >That will fire the preflash and lock the exposure.
    >Then (after a second or two) squeeze the shutter button and your subject
    >won't have time to blink!


    Good idea, David, I'll have to give it a try.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    , Dec 25, 2004
    #8
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