I support Project Bore Snake

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Gary L. Burnore, Aug 15, 2005.

  1. Gary L. Burnore, Aug 15, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Gary L. Burnore

    Mark² Guest

    "Gary L. Burnore" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Do it for the troops!
    >
    > http://ProjectBoreSnake.org/


    What a scam.

    That's one of the most pathetic sales pitches I've ever seen.
    Sell a pile of gun-cleaning stuff under the guise of charity.

    If they are sooo needed, why don't they contract with the US government?
    Answer? They've got gun-cleaning covered already.
     
    Mark², Aug 15, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:18:06 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    number here)@cox..net> wrote:


    >If they are sooo needed, why don't they contract with the US government?
    >Answer? They've got gun-cleaning covered already.


    And if the stuff actually met military specifications - the stuff
    would be available through the military supply system.





    >


    --
    There can be no triumph without loss.
    No victory without suffering.
    No freedom without sacrifice.
     
    Colin Campbell, Aug 15, 2005
    #3
  4. Gary L. Burnore

    Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:28:48 -0700, Colin Campbell
    < (remove underscore)> wrote:

    >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:18:06 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    >number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>If they are sooo needed, why don't they contract with the US government?
    >>Answer? They've got gun-cleaning covered already.

    >
    >And if the stuff actually met military specifications - the stuff
    >would be available through the military supply system.


    There's a lot of stuff that meets mil-spec that the troops don't
    have. It's called cost. Ever hear of lowest bidder?

    It's the reason Altima has the boot contract instead of Danner.

    Altima @ $69.95 vs. Danner Ft. Lewis @ $229.00.

    Whomever vs. Blackhawk or Eagle Industries.

    Most of Blackhawk DOES have the mil-spec numbers.

    It's just not bought for the everyday line troops.


    Rick Bowen
    TSRA Life Member
    lex talionis.
     
    , Aug 15, 2005
    #4
  5. On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 06:04:22 -0500, wrote:


    >>And if the stuff actually met military specifications - the stuff
    >>would be available through the military supply system.

    >
    >There's a lot of stuff that meets mil-spec that the troops don't
    >have. It's called cost. Ever hear of lowest bidder?


    Ever hear of Fedlog? If it has been approved then the supply sergeant
    can order it.

    >
    >It's the reason Altima has the boot contract instead of Danner.


    Actually the boots are made to a design specified by the government.
    They are made by several different companies.

    BTW, Danner/Matterhorn boots are CIF issue for cold weather
    environments.


    --
    There can be no triumph without loss.
    No victory without suffering.
    No freedom without sacrifice.
     
    Colin Campbell, Aug 15, 2005
    #5
  6. Gary L. Burnore

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 06:17:43 -0700, Colin Campbell
    < (remove underscore)> wrote:

    >On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 06:04:22 -0500, wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>And if the stuff actually met military specifications - the stuff
    >>>would be available through the military supply system.

    >>
    >>There's a lot of stuff that meets mil-spec that the troops don't
    >>have. It's called cost. Ever hear of lowest bidder?

    >
    >Ever hear of Fedlog? If it has been approved then the supply sergeant
    >can order it.


    Approved by whom?
    DOD or the manufacturer?
    Obviously, if the DOD approves an item for purchase, it can be
    purchased.
    Does a mere adherance to milspec guarantee approval by the DOD?
    --
    Bill Funk
    funktionality.blogspot.com
     
    Bill Funk, Aug 15, 2005
    #6
  7. Gary L. Burnore

    Gunner Guest

    On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:28:48 -0700, Colin Campbell
    < (remove underscore)> wrote:

    >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:18:06 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    >number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>If they are sooo needed, why don't they contract with the US government?
    >>Answer? They've got gun-cleaning covered already.

    >
    >And if the stuff actually met military specifications - the stuff
    >would be available through the military supply system.
    >

    Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?

    The 5 sniper veils and wind meters that I sent?

    <snip long list>

    Gunner
     
    Gunner, Aug 15, 2005
    #7
  8. Gunner:
    >Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    >hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?


    You mean the non-Milspec Camelbacks that would start leaking within a
    month of field use?

    FYI, I was issued a Camelback that was made to Mil-spec (basically
    stronger and more durable components) and a Leatherman prior to
    deploying to Iraq. Unlike the civilian versions, mine made it through
    a complete tour of duty and I am still using it today.

    And when I was in Iraq FRS radios were being confiscated because of
    safety and security issues.
     
    Colin Campbell, Aug 15, 2005
    #8
  9. Gary L. Burnore

    Gunner Guest

    On 15 Aug 2005 13:30:37 -0700, "Colin Campbell"
    <> wrote:

    >Gunner:
    >>Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    >>hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?

    >
    >You mean the non-Milspec Camelbacks that would start leaking within a
    >month of field use?


    Did all of them? And how long did it take for the Milspec versions to
    arrive?
    >
    >FYI, I was issued a Camelback that was made to Mil-spec (basically
    >stronger and more durable components) and a Leatherman prior to
    >deploying to Iraq. Unlike the civilian versions, mine made it through
    >a complete tour of duty and I am still using it today.


    Good for you. My 4 yr old non milspec has lasted marvelously though
    duty nearly as tough. Shrug.
    >
    >And when I was in Iraq FRS radios were being confiscated because of
    >safety and security issues.


    And how long was that after the fact, and what replaced them?

    Gunner
     
    Gunner, Aug 16, 2005
    #9
  10. On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:35:20 GMT, Gunner <>
    wrote:

    >On 15 Aug 2005 13:30:37 -0700, "Colin Campbell"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Gunner:
    >>>Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    >>>hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?

    >>
    >>You mean the non-Milspec Camelbacks that would start leaking within a
    >>month of field use?

    >
    >Did all of them? And how long did it take for the Milspec versions to
    >arrive?


    All of them that saw field use. The people on OIF 1 had purchased the
    'civilian' versions before they went over. As a result of the
    experience with them the US Army offered to buy 250,000 _if_ specific
    design changes were made to improve durability. Initially the
    Camelback people said 'no' - until the Army made the same offer to
    their competitor. The Camelback company did the math (250,000 x $20)
    and revamped their production line so that all of their products met
    the specification.

    When I went on OIF 2, the modified Camelback was part of the MOLLE-2
    system.


    >Good for you. My 4 yr old non milspec has lasted marvelously though
    >duty nearly as tough. Shrug.


    Really? How much time did it spend squashed between an unpadded seat
    back and a SAPI plate in a vehicle traveling over poorly maintained
    roads?

    If yours has been around for 4 years than it has not seen duty 'nearly
    as tough' as battlefield usage.

    >>
    >>And when I was in Iraq FRS radios were being confiscated because of
    >>safety and security issues.

    >
    >And how long was that after the fact, and what replaced them?


    Generally as soon as the Sigint people identified the users. One of
    the favorite tricks of the Sigint people was to provide transcripts of
    FRS radio conversations and tell commanders: "This is what the enemy
    now knows about your unit and your operations."

    This is why troops are being issued _secure_ short-range radios.

    BTW, since many IEDs operate on FRS frequencies using one can endanger
    the lives of EOD personnel.




    --
    There can be no triumph without loss.
    No victory without suffering.
    No freedom without sacrifice.
     
    Colin Campbell, Aug 16, 2005
    #10
  11. Gary L. Burnore

    Gunner Guest

    On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:04:04 -0700, Colin Campbell
    < (remove underscore)> wrote:

    >On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:35:20 GMT, Gunner <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On 15 Aug 2005 13:30:37 -0700, "Colin Campbell"
    >><> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Gunner:
    >>>>Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    >>>>hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?
    >>>
    >>>You mean the non-Milspec Camelbacks that would start leaking within a
    >>>month of field use?

    >>
    >>Did all of them? And how long did it take for the Milspec versions to
    >>arrive?

    >
    >All of them that saw field use. The people on OIF 1 had purchased the
    >'civilian' versions before they went over. As a result of the
    >experience with them the US Army offered to buy 250,000 _if_ specific
    >design changes were made to improve durability. Initially the
    >Camelback people said 'no' - until the Army made the same offer to
    >their competitor. The Camelback company did the math (250,000 x $20)
    >and revamped their production line so that all of their products met
    >the specification.
    >
    >When I went on OIF 2, the modified Camelback was part of the MOLLE-2
    >system.
    >
    >
    >>Good for you. My 4 yr old non milspec has lasted marvelously though
    >>duty nearly as tough. Shrug.

    >
    >Really? How much time did it spend squashed between an unpadded seat
    >back and a SAPI plate in a vehicle traveling over poorly maintained
    >roads?


    Does being squashed between a Craftsman toolbox and a pickup sidewall
    for 100,000 miles of poorly maintained roads count?
    >
    >If yours has been around for 4 years than it has not seen duty 'nearly
    >as tough' as battlefield usage.


    Your opinion is noted.
    >
    >>>
    >>>And when I was in Iraq FRS radios were being confiscated because of
    >>>safety and security issues.

    >>
    >>And how long was that after the fact, and what replaced them?

    >
    >Generally as soon as the Sigint people identified the users. One of
    >the favorite tricks of the Sigint people was to provide transcripts of
    >FRS radio conversations and tell commanders: "This is what the enemy
    >now knows about your unit and your operations."
    >
    >This is why troops are being issued _secure_ short-range radios.


    So they are FINALLY being issued secure comms. How long has it been so
    far?
    >
    >BTW, since many IEDs operate on FRS frequencies using one can endanger
    >the lives of EOD personnel.


    Or..one can pop the IEDs by talking on it. Which works for me as long
    as the talker is out of the blast zone.

    Gunner
     
    Gunner, Aug 16, 2005
    #11
  12. Gary L. Burnore

    Mark² Guest

    "Gunner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:04:04 -0700, Colin Campbell
    > < (remove underscore)> wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:35:20 GMT, Gunner <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 15 Aug 2005 13:30:37 -0700, "Colin Campbell"
    >>><> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Gunner:
    >>>>>Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    >>>>>hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?
    >>>>
    >>>>You mean the non-Milspec Camelbacks that would start leaking within a
    >>>>month of field use?
    >>>
    >>>Did all of them? And how long did it take for the Milspec versions to
    >>>arrive?

    >>
    >>All of them that saw field use. The people on OIF 1 had purchased the
    >>'civilian' versions before they went over. As a result of the
    >>experience with them the US Army offered to buy 250,000 _if_ specific
    >>design changes were made to improve durability. Initially the
    >>Camelback people said 'no' - until the Army made the same offer to
    >>their competitor. The Camelback company did the math (250,000 x $20)
    >>and revamped their production line so that all of their products met
    >>the specification.
    >>
    >>When I went on OIF 2, the modified Camelback was part of the MOLLE-2
    >>system.
    >>
    >>
    >>>Good for you. My 4 yr old non milspec has lasted marvelously though
    >>>duty nearly as tough. Shrug.

    >>
    >>Really? How much time did it spend squashed between an unpadded seat
    >>back and a SAPI plate in a vehicle traveling over poorly maintained
    >>roads?

    >
    > Does being squashed between a Craftsman toolbox and a pickup sidewall
    > for 100,000 miles of poorly maintained roads count?


    No. -Not for much--by comparison.

    Soldiers in Iraq really are in extreme conditions, and likely keep their
    Camelbacks in USE 18 hours a day.
     
    Mark², Aug 16, 2005
    #12
  13. On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:44:07 GMT, Gunner <>
    wrote:


    >>Really? How much time did it spend squashed between an unpadded seat
    >>back and a SAPI plate in a vehicle traveling over poorly maintained
    >>roads?

    >
    >Does being squashed between a Craftsman toolbox and a pickup sidewall
    >for 100,000 miles of poorly maintained roads count?


    No. And do I need to tell you why?


    >>BTW, since many IEDs operate on FRS frequencies using one can endanger
    >>the lives of EOD personnel.

    >
    >Or..one can pop the IEDs by talking on it. Which works for me as long
    >as the talker is out of the blast zone.


    And how is he going to know this?

    BTW, another issue with FRS radios is that they do not work if RF IED
    jammers are around. So your little FRS radio is useless unless you
    want to increase your vulnerability to that form of attack.

    Do you really think that you know what the troops in Iraq need better
    than we do?



    --
    There can be no triumph without loss.
    No victory without suffering.
    No freedom without sacrifice.
     
    Colin Campbell, Aug 16, 2005
    #13
  14. Gary L. Burnore

    Tank Fixer Guest

    In article <>,
    on 14 Aug 2005 20:48:27 -0700,
    Gary L. Burnore attempted to say .....

    > Do it for the troops!
    >
    > http://ProjectBoredSnake.org/


    Funny thing is, now that you are spamming this I wont buy the product

    --
    When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
    variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.
     
    Tank Fixer, Aug 16, 2005
    #14
  15. Gary L. Burnore

    Tank Fixer Guest

    In article <>,
    on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:52:06 GMT,
    Gunner attempted to say .....

    > On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:28:48 -0700, Colin Campbell
    > < (remove underscore)> wrote:
    >
    > >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:18:06 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    > >number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>If they are sooo needed, why don't they contract with the US government?
    > >>Answer? They've got gun-cleaning covered already.

    > >
    > >And if the stuff actually met military specifications - the stuff
    > >would be available through the military supply system.
    > >

    > Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    > hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?


    You want the NSN's for those ?
    And do you want 2 liter or 3 liter Camelbaks ?


    --
    When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
    variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.
     
    Tank Fixer, Aug 16, 2005
    #15
  16. Gary L. Burnore

    Tank Fixer Guest

    In article <>,
    on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:04:04 -0700,
    Colin Campbell attempted to say .....

    > The Camelback company did the math (250,000 x $20)
    > and revamped their production line so that all of their products met
    > the specification.


    Not to mention that now any supply sgt with an IMPACT card can order for his
    unit.

    --
    When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
    variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.
     
    Tank Fixer, Aug 16, 2005
    #16
  17. Gary L. Burnore

    sleeper Guest

    Colin Campbell < (remove underscore)> waxed
    rhapsodic in news::

    > On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:44:07 GMT, Gunner <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Really? How much time did it spend squashed between an unpadded seat
    >>>back and a SAPI plate in a vehicle traveling over poorly maintained
    >>>roads?

    >>
    >>Does being squashed between a Craftsman toolbox and a pickup sidewall
    >>for 100,000 miles of poorly maintained roads count?

    >
    > No. And do I need to tell you why?


    maybe it's because the earth is only 25,000 miles in circumference.

    then again, they might have dropped him off halfway to the moon.

    --
    http://www.kexp.org

    listener-powered and commercial-free.
     
    sleeper, Aug 16, 2005
    #17
  18. Gary L. Burnore

    Gunner Guest

    On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:27:37 -0700, Colin Campbell
    < (remove underscore)> wrote:

    >On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:44:07 GMT, Gunner <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>Really? How much time did it spend squashed between an unpadded seat
    >>>back and a SAPI plate in a vehicle traveling over poorly maintained
    >>>roads?

    >>
    >>Does being squashed between a Craftsman toolbox and a pickup sidewall
    >>for 100,000 miles of poorly maintained roads count?

    >
    >No. And do I need to tell you why?
    >
    >
    >>>BTW, since many IEDs operate on FRS frequencies using one can endanger
    >>>the lives of EOD personnel.

    >>
    >>Or..one can pop the IEDs by talking on it. Which works for me as long
    >>as the talker is out of the blast zone.

    >
    >And how is he going to know this?
    >
    >BTW, another issue with FRS radios is that they do not work if RF IED
    >jammers are around. So your little FRS radio is useless unless you
    >want to increase your vulnerability to that form of attack.
    >
    >Do you really think that you know what the troops in Iraq need better
    >than we do?


    Nope..but they were needed and needed badly at the start..and the
    troops did what they needed to do, until the tail caught up with them.

    And thats the point old buddy...thats the point.

    Gunner
     
    Gunner, Aug 16, 2005
    #18
  19. Gary L. Burnore

    Gunner Guest

    On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 05:08:38 -0000, sleeper <moc.sseldnim@repeels>
    wrote:

    >Colin Campbell < (remove underscore)> waxed
    >rhapsodic in news::
    >
    >> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:44:07 GMT, Gunner <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>Really? How much time did it spend squashed between an unpadded seat
    >>>>back and a SAPI plate in a vehicle traveling over poorly maintained
    >>>>roads?
    >>>
    >>>Does being squashed between a Craftsman toolbox and a pickup sidewall
    >>>for 100,000 miles of poorly maintained roads count?

    >>
    >> No. And do I need to tell you why?

    >
    >maybe it's because the earth is only 25,000 miles in circumference.
    >
    >then again, they might have dropped him off halfway to the moon.


    My old service truck has 372,000 miles on it at the moment, Ill put
    another 1500 on it this week. Shrug...I drive a lot.

    Gunner
     
    Gunner, Aug 16, 2005
    #19
  20. Gary L. Burnore

    Gunner Guest

    On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 03:29:24 GMT, Tank Fixer
    <paul.deekat.carrier@127.0.0.1> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:52:06 GMT,
    > Gunner attempted to say .....
    >
    >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:28:48 -0700, Colin Campbell
    >> < (remove underscore)> wrote:
    >>
    >> >On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:18:06 -0700, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even
    >> >number here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >>If they are sooo needed, why don't they contract with the US government?
    >> >>Answer? They've got gun-cleaning covered already.
    >> >
    >> >And if the stuff actually met military specifications - the stuff
    >> >would be available through the military supply system.
    >> >

    >> Like all the FRS radios that went to Iraq? All the Camelback
    >> hydration units that were privately bought? Leatherman multi-tools?

    >
    >You want the NSN's for those ?
    >And do you want 2 liter or 3 liter Camelbaks ?


    Would that be NOW or at the start of the war?

    Gunner
     
    Gunner, Aug 16, 2005
    #20
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