I need help with a wireless network problem.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by MarkH, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    OK, here is a problem for those with some wireless experience.

    I set up a Wireless Access Point/DSL Router/4 Port Hub (Netgear WGR614) and
    got it working easily enough.

    Then I set up a Laptop with a built in wireless adapter (Intel Pro) and
    tried to connect to the WAP. Windows found the WAP, tried to connect to
    it, then told me that it could not find any wireless networks. I changed
    the channel on the WAP and then got a repeat on the laptop (find, try to
    connect, can't find).

    I disabled the Windows XP handling of wireless connection and switched to
    using the Intel software. This time I could find the wireless network and
    join it, I could browse and copy files, everything worked fine. On a
    reboot (or if I disabled and re-enabled wireless) the Intel software tells
    me there is no signal, it can't find any wireless networks. I unplug power
    to the WAP, wait 10 seconds and plug the power back in, voila the laptop
    finds the network and connects to it happily.

    So what's the problem guys?

    This is a brand new HP Laptop and a brand new Netgear WAP.

    Do I need to update the Intel Pro wireless software?

    Firmware update on the WAP?

    I haven't had a lot of experience with wireless networks, but the last one
    I set up was a breeze, connected 2 laptops and everything worked easily.

    Googling hasn't found the solution, I need some help from you experienced
    and knowledgeable people out there!



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Nov 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. MarkH

    Gurble Guest

    On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:23:16 GMT, MarkH <> had
    this to say:

    >OK, here is a problem for those with some wireless experience.
    >
    >I set up a Wireless Access Point/DSL Router/4 Port Hub (Netgear WGR614) and
    >got it working easily enough.
    >
    >Then I set up a Laptop with a built in wireless adapter (Intel Pro) and
    >tried to connect to the WAP. Windows found the WAP, tried to connect to
    >it, then told me that it could not find any wireless networks. I changed
    >the channel on the WAP and then got a repeat on the laptop (find, try to
    >connect, can't find).
    >
    >I disabled the Windows XP handling of wireless connection and switched to
    >using the Intel software. This time I could find the wireless network and
    >join it, I could browse and copy files, everything worked fine. On a
    >reboot (or if I disabled and re-enabled wireless) the Intel software tells
    >me there is no signal, it can't find any wireless networks. I unplug power
    >to the WAP, wait 10 seconds and plug the power back in, voila the laptop
    >finds the network and connects to it happily.
    >
    >So what's the problem guys?
    >
    >This is a brand new HP Laptop and a brand new Netgear WAP.
    >
    >Do I need to update the Intel Pro wireless software?
    >
    >Firmware update on the WAP?
    >
    >I haven't had a lot of experience with wireless networks, but the last one
    >I set up was a breeze, connected 2 laptops and everything worked easily.
    >
    >Googling hasn't found the solution, I need some help from you experienced
    >and knowledgeable people out there!


    Hi there.

    Could well be something interfering with it.

    Firstly, it would be a good idea to update the firmware on both the
    card and the WAP. Always a good idea.

    Secondly, do you have a digital cordless phone? Try moving the AP if
    possible, and see if that helps.

    Are you trying to use the laptop close to the AP?

    Also, some laptops have the card built in, but you must buy an aerial
    (although often it is the other way around). This is not so much the
    case these days, but you never know with HP...

    Also, google and grab "Net Stumbler", which is a tool to find wireless
    networks in your neighbourhood, and see if it sees your wireless
    network OK, and can give you strengths, etc.

    Let us know how you get on.
     
    Gurble, Nov 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. MarkH

    Richard Guest

    MarkH wrote:

    > This is a brand new HP Laptop and a brand new Netgear WAP.


    Brand new HP still means really old drivers typically

    > Do I need to update the Intel Pro wireless software?


    Yes

    > Firmware update on the WAP?


    Most likly wouldnt hurt

    > I haven't had a lot of experience with wireless networks, but the last one
    > I set up was a breeze, connected 2 laptops and everything worked easily.
    >
    > Googling hasn't found the solution, I need some help from you experienced
    > and knowledgeable people out there!


    When I was looking there were heaps of results with people having problems with
    the rubbish intel wireless cards?
     
    Richard, Nov 27, 2004
    #3
  4. MarkH

    Geoff Hall Guest

    What card is it?

    Intel stopped making wireless cards a long time ago.

    The Intel 2100 was the 802.11b and the 5000 the 802.11a implementation.

    Both seem to work under XPSP2 however pre SP2 they only work with the Intel
    Wireless Driver/Manager.

    Throw it away and get a matching Netgear one. Save your hair...

    Geoff
     
    Geoff Hall, Nov 27, 2004
    #4
  5. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    Gurble <> wrote in
    news::

    > Could well be something interfering with it.


    But it works fine till reboot, then finds nothing at all. i.e. strong
    signal, reboot laptop and it says there is no signal at all.

    > Firstly, it would be a good idea to update the firmware on both the
    > card and the WAP. Always a good idea.


    OK, I'll give it a go.

    > Secondly, do you have a digital cordless phone? Try moving the AP if
    > possible, and see if that helps.


    They only have an old cheap analogue cordless phone. I think it is the
    2.4GHz phones that will cause a huge problem.

    > Are you trying to use the laptop close to the AP?


    Very close, a couple of metres maybe.

    > Also, some laptops have the card built in, but you must buy an aerial
    > (although often it is the other way around). This is not so much the
    > case these days, but you never know with HP...


    No, I get a good signal and working wireless network, until reboot.

    > Also, google and grab "Net Stumbler", which is a tool to find wireless
    > networks in your neighbourhood, and see if it sees your wireless
    > network OK, and can give you strengths, etc.


    Kind of wish I had my own laptop for this job, would be good to verify that
    the WAP is OK, or that the WAP is the problem.

    > Let us know how you get on.


    I'll visit the customer and update firmare, drivers and Intel Pro Wireless
    software and report back.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Nov 28, 2004
    #5
  6. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    "Geoff Hall" <> wrote in
    news:coav6j$onl$:

    > What card is it?
    >
    > Intel stopped making wireless cards a long time ago.
    >
    > The Intel 2100 was the 802.11b and the 5000 the 802.11a
    > implementation.
    >
    > Both seem to work under XPSP2 however pre SP2 they only work with the
    > Intel Wireless Driver/Manager.
    >
    > Throw it away and get a matching Netgear one. Save your hair...


    I would if I could. But it is not really my customer, I have been asked to
    visit onsite and get the gear setup. I would not be popular if I visit
    onsite, play around, state the hardware is crap and they will have to buy
    other stuff.

    When a salesman sells a customer a WAP and a laptop complete with wireless
    adapter, how popular would a tech be that is asked to do the setup but just
    rubbishes the hardware and insists that it be changed to suit his
    preferences?

    Of course if the hardware was just plain incompatible and could not work
    together then it would be a different story.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Nov 28, 2004
    #6
  7. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    Richard <> wrote in news:41a8da2f$1_5@127.0.0.1:

    > MarkH wrote:
    >
    >> This is a brand new HP Laptop and a brand new Netgear WAP.

    >
    > Brand new HP still means really old drivers typically
    >
    >> Do I need to update the Intel Pro wireless software?

    >
    > Yes
    >
    >> Firmware update on the WAP?

    >
    > Most likly wouldnt hurt
    >
    >> I haven't had a lot of experience with wireless networks, but the
    >> last one I set up was a breeze, connected 2 laptops and everything
    >> worked easily.
    >>
    >> Googling hasn't found the solution, I need some help from you
    >> experienced and knowledgeable people out there!

    >
    > When I was looking there were heaps of results with people having
    > problems with the rubbish intel wireless cards?


    I read problems, but only one or two that matched what I experienced.
    Those didn't seem to have the right solution listed.

    Unfortunately I was unable to get the software updates while onsite, the
    Intel Pro Wireless software is over 40MB and the customer's dial up
    connects at 30k, and while onsite I am on the clock.

    I will download drivers, firmware and software at home and then visit the
    customer to sort the problem.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Nov 28, 2004
    #7
  8. MarkH

    Geoff Hall Guest

    > I would if I could. But it is not really my customer, I have been asked
    > to
    > visit onsite and get the gear setup. I would not be popular if I visit
    > onsite, play around, state the hardware is crap and they will have to buy
    > other stuff.


    Oh Dear, the sales and techie syndrome.
    After 20 yrs of them and us you get used to it, they sell em a dream and
    give us the nightmare!

    You didn't confirm the card type was it the Intel 2011 ?
    It's a real problem for you, as they have not updated the software since
    they stopped selling them.
    There are at least two firmware revisions.
    I still have one in my toolbag I just gave up trying to use it, it would
    sniff the ssid connect and then just loose the connection with WEP enabled
    it wouldn't work at all.
    Certain firmware only supports 48bit encryption ensure you AP can fall back
    to this.

    I suggest you visit here for an insight into this card.
    ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/3867/ENG/Readme.txt

    > When a salesman sells a customer a WAP and a laptop complete with wireless
    > adapter, how popular would a tech be that is asked to do the setup but
    > just
    > rubbishes the hardware and insists that it be changed to suit his
    > preferences?

    I've spent most of my life defending salemen from upset clients, you have to
    educate them.
    My sales guys wont use the coffee machine nowadays without clearing it with
    the tech dept first and thats the way it should be.

    > Of course if the hardware was just plain incompatible and could not work
    > together then it would be a different story.

    The Intel PCMCIA adapters were discontinued in 2003 the driver support
    stopped in 2002 I think it's safe to say they are no longer compatible in
    many aspects.
    They could only be loosely described as 802.11b compliant.

    How much is a wifi adapter in Kiwiland any way?

    Geoff
    (Task IT) UK
    Intel Premier Provider
    & Soon to be NuKiwi
     
    Geoff Hall, Nov 28, 2004
    #8
  9. MarkH

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:23:16 GMT, MarkH <> wrote:

    >OK, here is a problem for those with some wireless experience.
    >
    >I set up a Wireless Access Point/DSL Router/4 Port Hub (Netgear WGR614) and
    >got it working easily enough.
    >
    >Then I set up a Laptop with a built in wireless adapter (Intel Pro) and
    >tried to connect to the WAP. Windows found the WAP, tried to connect to
    >it, then told me that it could not find any wireless networks. I changed
    >the channel on the WAP and then got a repeat on the laptop (find, try to
    >connect, can't find).
    >
    >I disabled the Windows XP handling of wireless connection and switched to
    >using the Intel software. This time I could find the wireless network and
    >join it, I could browse and copy files, everything worked fine. On a
    >reboot (or if I disabled and re-enabled wireless) the Intel software tells
    >me there is no signal, it can't find any wireless networks. I unplug power
    >to the WAP, wait 10 seconds and plug the power back in, voila the laptop
    >finds the network and connects to it happily.
    >
    >So what's the problem guys?
    >
    >This is a brand new HP Laptop and a brand new Netgear WAP.
    >
    >Do I need to update the Intel Pro wireless software?
    >
    >Firmware update on the WAP?
    >
    >I haven't had a lot of experience with wireless networks, but the last one
    >I set up was a breeze, connected 2 laptops and everything worked easily.
    >
    >Googling hasn't found the solution, I need some help from you experienced
    >and knowledgeable people out there!


    I've had a few problems in the past with speed negotiation on a few
    mixed brand wireless networks Mark, may be worth looking at. Been a
    while since I've encountered it & can't recall exactly what the
    problem was now, but the symptoms were similar to yours, ie a fresh
    setup would connect ok but the minute you changed something...
    rebooted or pulled the NIC out, it wouldn't reconnect.

    The WAP is probably set to auto-negotiate the speed & duplex. Try
    setting the speed on the WAP & NIC at a fixed rate, and half-duplex,
    and see if it resolves the immediate problem of not finding the WAP.

    Cheers

    Gavin
     
    Gavin Tunney, Nov 28, 2004
    #9
  10. MarkH

    MarkH Guest

    "Geoff Hall" <> wrote in
    news:cod1i7$44h$:

    >> I would if I could. But it is not really my customer, I have been
    >> asked to
    >> visit onsite and get the gear setup. I would not be popular if I
    >> visit onsite, play around, state the hardware is crap and they will
    >> have to buy other stuff.

    >
    > Oh Dear, the sales and techie syndrome.
    > After 20 yrs of them and us you get used to it, they sell em a dream
    > and give us the nightmare!
    >
    > You didn't confirm the card type was it the Intel 2011 ?
    > It's a real problem for you, as they have not updated the software
    > since they stopped selling them.
    > There are at least two firmware revisions.
    > I still have one in my toolbag I just gave up trying to use it, it
    > would sniff the ssid connect and then just loose the connection with
    > WEP enabled it wouldn't work at all.
    > Certain firmware only supports 48bit encryption ensure you AP can fall
    > back to this.


    OK Guys I have revisited the site and made notes of exact hardware:

    Laptop:
    HP NX5000

    Network adapter:
    Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection.

    WAP
    Netgear WGR614 (rev 1), this was a surprise, the Netgear website lists
    the original WGR614, the rev2, rev3 and revision 4. How old is the
    stock being sold here in NZ?


    I started by updating the Laptop, was Intel Proset 8 so I updated to
    9.0.1.0, no fix.
    I updated the network driver, still no fix.

    I updated the firmware on the router and reset it, still no-fix.

    Then I updated the router firmware to a beta version from Netgear's
    site, now the problem appears to be fixed.



    Thanks for all your suggestions guys.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 12-Nov-04)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Nov 29, 2004
    #10
  11. MarkH

    Geoff Hall Guest

    >Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    > Network adapter:
    > Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200BG Network Connection.


    This is the Mini PCI unit that uses Intels own wireless chip and is found in
    many non centrino laptops, this should not be an issue under XP1 or 2 with
    the right drivers.
    Interestingly the NX5000 is available with either the 2100b, 2200bg,
    Centrino or HP Wifi options, the HP option is probably because the unit can
    be shipped with Linux preloaded and reference drivers are readily available.
    Intel has so far provided limited Linux support for wireless as it seems
    reluctant to release all of it's code to open source developers and has so
    far released only unsupported pre-production drivers.
    There are lots of links between Intel and Cisco and these chips support
    Cisco extensions several of which are probably amongst a list of non
    exportable technology on the NSA restricted list....
    Intel stopped making switches and access points after a deal with Cisco a
    few years back and focused on wifi clients and lastmile technologies such as
    WiMax aka 802.16


    > WAP
    > Netgear WGR614 (rev 1), this was a surprise, the Netgear website lists
    > the original WGR614, the rev2, rev3 and revision 4. How old is the
    > stock being sold here in NZ?

    Netgear have released different versions of the same hardware with different
    Wireless Devices the entire range have V1 V2 V3 etc and the firmware is
    dependent on the wi-fi chipset Prism, TI, Lucent etc etc

    The latest Netgear Firmware features Zero Configuration (allegedly) and this
    automatically sets the AP Channel and output strength based upon local
    interference levels.

    Your closer to the source of this kit than us, I would have expected you to
    have the latest kit before the UK however we are selling warehouses full of
    the stuff.

    I have an interesting Netgear issue myself, as a second AP in a site it will
    only route packets if it acts as a DHCP server or Client.
    Give it a static address and it talks to nobody except itself..... awaiting
    yet another firmware release for this one.

    Or what about the Acer Laptops that only initialise the wireless chipset
    after a user has logged on with administrator rights, really useful when you
    have a classroom of 30 kids to deal with, this was fixed by an Acer bios
    update within 48 hrs of it being requested.

    So as it seems Wi-Fi is far from a mature technology, it's still in the gene
    pool as far as development goes and it changes so fast even manufacturers
    like Linksys and Netgear seem to be struggling to keep pace with it.

    There is one thing for sure, whatever you buy today will be obsolete
    tomorrow.

    Well done and good luck

    Geoff Hall
    UK
     
    Geoff Hall, Nov 29, 2004
    #11
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