I just need to tag and catalogue; Lightroom or Elements5?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Peter Jason, May 4, 2007.

  1. Peter Jason

    Peter Jason Guest

    I use PhotoshopCS2 for image adjusting, so
    all I need is a good fast Tagger &
    Cataloguer.

    Which would be best for just this purpose
    (only) given I have about 4000 photos to
    catalogue.

    Is it possible to turn off all other
    facilities in each of these programs to speed
    up the tagging & cataloguing?
    Peter
    Peter Jason, May 4, 2007
    #1
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  2. Peter Jason

    Malcolm Hoar Guest

    In article <f1e3ca$305e$>, "Peter Jason" <> wrote:
    >I use PhotoshopCS2 for image adjusting, so
    >all I need is a good fast Tagger &
    >Cataloguer.
    >
    >Which would be best for just this purpose
    >(only) given I have about 4000 photos to
    >catalogue.
    >
    >Is it possible to turn off all other
    >facilities in each of these programs to speed
    >up the tagging & cataloguing?


    I am also looking for a fast, simple tagging program.
    After trying 30+ different programs, I haven't found
    anything suitable for my needs :-(

    Some questions/issues you'll need to think about
    before you will make any progress:

    1. What file formats do you need to tag? You'll have
    a lot more choices with JPG than you will with
    RAW formats like NEF.

    2. Where do you need the tags to be stored? Some
    programs will store the tags in their own database,
    some will store the tags in "sidecar" files, some
    will store them "in" the image and many will store
    the tags in a couple of those places.

    3. You also failed to mention what Operating System
    you're running.

    I do agree there is a real need for something that will
    tag quickly and without dozens of other image processing
    features cluttering up the interface and hogging system
    resources. Sadly, there doesn't appear to be much out
    there.

    My personal heaven would be something like IrfanView
    with a customizable panel to enter IPTC tags that
    would be stored within the JPG/TIFF/NEF files ;-)


    --
    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
    | Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
    | Gary Player. |
    | http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Malcolm Hoar, May 4, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. On 4 Mai, 06:12, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
    > In article <f1e3ca$>, "Peter Jason" <> wrote:
    > >I use PhotoshopCS2 for image adjusting, so
    > >all I need is a good fast Tagger &
    > >Cataloguer.

    >
    > >Which would be best for just this purpose
    > >(only) given I have about 4000 photos to
    > >catalogue.

    >
    > >Is it possible to turn off all other
    > >facilities in each of these programs to speed
    > >up the tagging & cataloguing?

    >
    > I am also looking for a fast, simple tagging program.
    > After trying 30+ different programs, I haven't found
    > anything suitable for my needs :-(
    >
    > Some questions/issues you'll need to think about
    > before you will make any progress:
    >
    > 1. What file formats do you need to tag? You'll have
    > a lot more choices with JPG than you will with
    > RAW formats like NEF.
    >
    > 2. Where do you need the tags to be stored? Some
    > programs will store the tags in their own database,
    > some will store the tags in "sidecar" files, some
    > will store them "in" the image and many will store
    > the tags in a couple of those places.
    >
    > 3. You also failed to mention what Operating System
    > you're running.
    >
    > I do agree there is a real need for something that will
    > tag quickly and without dozens of other image processing
    > features cluttering up the interface and hogging system
    > resources. Sadly, there doesn't appear to be much out
    > there.
    >
    > My personal heaven would be something like IrfanView
    > with a customizable panel to enterIPTCtags that
    > would be stored within the JPG/TIFF/NEF files ;-)


    Hi,

    did you try Mapivi (http://mapivi.de.vu)?
    It's free, OS independent, has support for fast tagging (e.g. tag
    several pictures with several keywords in one step, hierarchical
    keywords, tags are stored in the IPTC section of the pictures, support
    of all IPTC fields), but it supports only JPEGs.

    Regards
    Martin
    Martin Herrmann, May 4, 2007
    #3
  4. Peter Jason

    Peter Jason Guest

    "Malcolm Hoar" <> wrote in
    message
    news:...
    > In article
    > <f1e3ca$305e$>,
    > "Peter Jason" <> wrote:
    >>I use PhotoshopCS2 for image adjusting, so
    >>all I need is a good fast Tagger &
    >>Cataloguer.
    >>
    >>Which would be best for just this purpose
    >>(only) given I have about 4000 photos to
    >>catalogue.
    >>
    >>Is it possible to turn off all other
    >>facilities in each of these programs to
    >>speed
    >>up the tagging & cataloguing?

    >
    > I am also looking for a fast, simple
    > tagging program.
    > After trying 30+ different programs, I
    > haven't found
    > anything suitable for my needs :-(
    >
    > Some questions/issues you'll need to think
    > about
    > before you will make any progress:
    >
    > 1. What file formats do you need to tag?
    > You'll have
    > a lot more choices with JPG than you will
    > with
    > RAW formats like NEF.
    >
    > 2. Where do you need the tags to be stored?
    > Some
    > programs will store the tags in their own
    > database,
    > some will store the tags in "sidecar"
    > files, some
    > will store them "in" the image and many
    > will store
    > the tags in a couple of those places.
    >
    > 3. You also failed to mention what
    > Operating System
    > you're running.
    >
    > I do agree there is a real need for
    > something that will
    > tag quickly and without dozens of other
    > image processing
    > features cluttering up the interface and
    > hogging system
    > resources. Sadly, there doesn't appear to
    > be much out
    > there.
    >
    > My personal heaven would be something like
    > IrfanView
    > with a customizable panel to enter IPTC
    > tags that
    > would be stored within the JPG/TIFF/NEF
    > files ;-)
    >
    >
    > --
    > |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
    > | Malcolm Hoar "The more I
    > practice, the luckier I get". |
    > |
    > Gary Player. |
    > | http://www.malch.com/ Shpx
    > gur PQN. |
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



    Thanks, I have WindowsXP prof.

    I always thought that the tagging process
    just entered info into the files properties,
    and then used a database to extract
    selections. In other words the files stay
    where they are and the info is therefore
    stored "in the image".

    I had some bad luck with the Microsoft
    "Digital Image Pro 9" because I entered
    "keywords" (tags) into the files which were
    all TIFF, but when I subsequently converted
    them to JPGs (with Irfanview) I lost all the
    tagging!

    So what I need is tagging into the files
    themselves, whether in the TIFF, ORF (Olympus
    RAW) JPG etc, and still be able to select
    what I want.

    Also, I add comments into some digital files
    with the EXIF system using Exifer, which
    seems the only software that will print these
    comments across the bottom of the printout.
    Can the EXIF info be part of the Lightroom
    and/or Elements database?

    Peter.
    Peter Jason, May 4, 2007
    #4
  5. Peter Jason wrote:
    > I use PhotoshopCS2 for image adjusting, so
    > all I need is a good fast Tagger &
    > Cataloguer.
    >
    > Which would be best for just this purpose
    > (only) given I have about 4000 photos to
    > catalogue.
    >
    > Is it possible to turn off all other
    > facilities in each of these programs to speed
    > up the tagging & cataloguing?


    Why not use Bridge?

    LR is great, but to pay (now) $300 for using just a small part of it
    seems a waste.

    --
    John McWilliams
    John McWilliams, May 4, 2007
    #5
  6. Peter Jason

    Malcolm Hoar Guest

    In article <>, Martin Herrmann <> wrote:

    >> My personal heaven would be something like IrfanView
    >> with a customizable panel to enterIPTCtags that
    >> would be stored within the JPG/TIFF/NEF files ;-)

    >
    >
    >did you try Mapivi (http://mapivi.de.vu)?
    >It's free, OS independent, has support for fast tagging (e.g. tag
    >several pictures with several keywords in one step, hierarchical
    >keywords, tags are stored in the IPTC section of the pictures, support
    >of all IPTC fields), but it supports only JPEGs.


    Yeah. Problem is, I really want to tag my original RAW files.
    I think of my JPEG's as derivative works and they're sometimes
    transient.


    --
    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
    | Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
    | Gary Player. |
    | http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Malcolm Hoar, May 4, 2007
    #6
  7. Peter Jason

    Malcolm Hoar Guest

    In article <f1eja1$2of$>, "Peter Jason" <> wrote:

    >I always thought that the tagging process
    >just entered info into the files properties,
    >and then used a database to extract
    >selections. In other words the files stay
    >where they are and the info is therefore
    >stored "in the image".


    Typically, the tags are stores within JPEG's. But
    not many programs will tag RAW files.

    >I had some bad luck with the Microsoft
    >"Digital Image Pro 9" because I entered
    >"keywords" (tags) into the files which were
    >all TIFF, but when I subsequently converted
    >them to JPGs (with Irfanview) I lost all the
    >tagging!


    Do you still have the original TIFF's? If so,
    all is not lost. You can likely use "exiftool"
    to move the tags over.

    >So what I need is tagging into the files
    >themselves, whether in the TIFF, ORF (Olympus
    >RAW) JPG etc, and still be able to select
    >what I want.


    The JPEG's are relatively easy. The TIFF's are
    probably not too bad either. But the Olympus
    RAW is likely to be a problem. I would dig into
    any and all tools from Olympus to see if they
    have anything that will meet your needs.

    >Also, I add comments into some digital files
    >with the EXIF system using Exifer, which
    >seems the only software that will print these
    >comments across the bottom of the printout.
    >Can the EXIF info be part of the Lightroom
    >and/or Elements database?


    Exifer is nice but it's no longer being developed
    and has already fallen behind the standards curve.

    Most tools will read the EXIF data without too
    much problem. Not all will handle IPTC.

    And, as you discovered, the EXIF data may be lost
    if you convert the image to a different format
    (e.g. TIFF -> JPEG). Grab a copy of exiftool since
    that can be a lifesaver is such situation.

    IrfanView does a nice and really fast job of NEF
    to JPG conversion. But it drops the EXIF in the
    process. I found that was fixable by running
    exiftool. Note that exiftool has a command line
    interface -- no GUI.

    --
    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
    | Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
    | Gary Player. |
    | http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Malcolm Hoar, May 4, 2007
    #7
  8. On Fri, 04 May 2007 08:44:23 -0700, John McWilliams
    <> wrote:

    >Peter Jason wrote:
    >> I use PhotoshopCS2 for image adjusting, so
    >> all I need is a good fast Tagger &
    >> Cataloguer.
    >>
    >> Which would be best for just this purpose
    >> (only) given I have about 4000 photos to
    >> catalogue.
    >>
    >> Is it possible to turn off all other
    >> facilities in each of these programs to speed
    >> up the tagging & cataloguing?

    >
    >Why not use Bridge?
    >
    >LR is great, but to pay (now) $300 for using just a small part of it
    >seems a waste.



    Many peole who use CS2 used the Elements Organizer for cataloging
    before Lightroom. Lightrooom will even import the info from Elements.
    Either the Elements Organizer or Lightroom will do what you want.
    Lightroom is likely the better choice for the long run and if you have
    a student or teacher in the family, Lightroom can be bought for under
    $100.
    Oliver Costich, May 4, 2007
    #8
  9. Peter Jason

    Peter Jason Guest

    "Malcolm Hoar" <> wrote in
    message
    news:...
    > In article
    > <f1eja1$2of$>, "Peter
    > Jason" <> wrote:
    >
    >>I always thought that the tagging process
    >>just entered info into the files
    >>properties,
    >>and then used a database to extract
    >>selections. In other words the files stay
    >>where they are and the info is therefore
    >>stored "in the image".

    >
    > Typically, the tags are stores within
    > JPEG's. But
    > not many programs will tag RAW files.
    >
    >>I had some bad luck with the Microsoft
    >>"Digital Image Pro 9" because I entered
    >>"keywords" (tags) into the files which were
    >>all TIFF, but when I subsequently converted
    >>them to JPGs (with Irfanview) I lost all
    >>the
    >>tagging!

    >
    > Do you still have the original TIFF's? If
    > so,
    > all is not lost. You can likely use
    > "exiftool"
    > to move the tags over.
    >
    >>So what I need is tagging into the files
    >>themselves, whether in the TIFF, ORF
    >>(Olympus
    >>RAW) JPG etc, and still be able to select
    >>what I want.

    >
    > The JPEG's are relatively easy. The TIFF's
    > are
    > probably not too bad either. But the
    > Olympus
    > RAW is likely to be a problem. I would dig
    > into
    > any and all tools from Olympus to see if
    > they
    > have anything that will meet your needs.
    >
    >>Also, I add comments into some digital
    >>files
    >>with the EXIF system using Exifer, which
    >>seems the only software that will print
    >>these
    >>comments across the bottom of the printout.
    >>Can the EXIF info be part of the Lightroom
    >>and/or Elements database?

    >
    > Exifer is nice but it's no longer being
    > developed
    > and has already fallen behind the standards
    > curve.
    >
    > Most tools will read the EXIF data without
    > too
    > much problem. Not all will handle IPTC.
    >
    > And, as you discovered, the EXIF data may
    > be lost
    > if you convert the image to a different
    > format
    > (e.g. TIFF -> JPEG). Grab a copy of
    > exiftool since
    > that can be a lifesaver is such situation.
    >
    > IrfanView does a nice and really fast job
    > of NEF
    > to JPG conversion. But it drops the EXIF in
    > the
    > process. I found that was fixable by
    > running
    > exiftool. Note that exiftool has a command
    > line
    > interface -- no GUI.
    >
    > --
    > |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
    > | Malcolm Hoar "The more I
    > practice, the luckier I get". |
    > |
    > Gary Player. |
    > | http://www.malch.com/ Shpx
    > gur PQN. |
    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    Thanks I'll check out this "Exiftool".

    I have been checking out the Lightroom system
    because I want to have my comments, which I
    added via EXIF, printed out in a thin line
    across the bottom of the print when I give
    these to my relatives, either as hardcopy or
    on a DVD.

    The recipients of my collection are not
    always computerized and so I *have* to have
    the comments watermarked across the bottom of
    the photo, in some suitable-sized text,
    directly from the EXIF data.

    I have not found this in Lightroom yet,
    though it could be done to a fashion in
    Exifer. Perhaps it's hidden in there
    somewhere.
    Peter Jason, May 5, 2007
    #9
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