I hate Windows

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by David Preece, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    It's astounding. Every time I think I'm getting over hating Windows it
    makes DAMN SURE I have a complete nightmare of some description.

    Today's example follows the continuing exploits of a 2 month old Athlon
    64. We have brand name memory, hard drive, motherboard and none of the
    tightarse skimping for which I am rightly famous. Installing XP on this
    was a complete nightmare until, a number of hours later, I realised you
    have to press F6 at the start of the boot process and put in a floppy
    disk (a floppy, I ask you) in order to install Windows. Like, of course
    you would in 2004.

    Shortly after getting the machine built my company had a contractor come
    and work for it. He used it for six weeks and it only failed a few
    times, costing real genuine money every time. But hey, it's windows,
    it's supposed to shit itself right?

    So I get it home and swap the video card (my GF6800 had been sitting in
    another box while the machine was at work). The machine boots, reckons
    it's lost the video card driver and drops a vga one in instead then
    stalls. It does the same thing a few more times then stops booting at
    all. Safe mode reveals it to have stopped at mup.sys

    Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
    from this? Read comments from the people who fix PC's for a living and
    see this EVERY FUCKING DAY? Anybody feel a twinge of understanding for
    those saying "I've been trying to fix this for two days"?

    So I've tried everything in these damn forums. Forcing the bios to
    rebuild ESCI; moving memory chips around; disabling USB; getting the
    recovery console up and doing a chkdsk /r ... no joy.

    Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW.

    So maybe it's the motherboard. Maybe it's the SATA drivers I needed to
    install. Maybe there's a timing issue on VIA K8thingy chipsets. Maybe
    I've been stupid and tried to use windows while the tide was rising on a
    full moon. Who fucking knows? All I know is that as the basis for a
    computing device, Windows XP has failed absolutely and completely. For
    both business and home. I would quite like to recover the contents of
    this drive, but the number of "reinstalling always fixes mup.sys
    problems for me" posts seem to indicate that perhaps this is not an
    option. We will need to do some more Windows development and
    reisntalling XP, Visual studio, a bunch of third party tools and a
    couple of dependent libraries is going to take a non-trivial quantity of
    time. Not to mention the damn-near certainty that it's going to happen
    again. Good job the source code I care about is held on subversion on a
    nice reliable Linux box.

    What an absolute pile of crap. The only upside to this is that my family
    (on both sides) have now seen the light and are buying Macs.

    As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this and can suggest a
    way of preventing it from happening - I'm all ears. See related post
    below...

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #1
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  2. David Preece

    C9H8O4 Guest

    "David Preece" <> wrote in message
    news:2LYkd.971$...
    > It's astounding. Every time I think I'm getting over hating Windows it
    > makes DAMN SURE I have a complete nightmare of some description.
    >
    > Today's example follows the continuing exploits of a 2 month old Athlon
    > 64. We have brand name memory, hard drive, motherboard and none of the
    > tightarse skimping for which I am rightly famous. Installing XP on this
    > was a complete nightmare until, a number of hours later, I realised you
    > have to press F6 at the start of the boot process and put in a floppy disk
    > (a floppy, I ask you) in order to install Windows. Like, of course you
    > would in 2004.
    >
    > Shortly after getting the machine built my company had a contractor come
    > and work for it. He used it for six weeks and it only failed a few times,
    > costing real genuine money every time. But hey, it's windows, it's
    > supposed to shit itself right?
    >
    > So I get it home and swap the video card (my GF6800 had been sitting in
    > another box while the machine was at work). The machine boots, reckons
    > it's lost the video card driver and drops a vga one in instead then
    > stalls. It does the same thing a few more times then stops booting at all.
    > Safe mode reveals it to have stopped at mup.sys
    >
    > Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering from
    > this? Read comments from the people who fix PC's for a living and see this
    > EVERY FUCKING DAY? Anybody feel a twinge of understanding for those saying
    > "I've been trying to fix this for two days"?
    >
    > So I've tried everything in these damn forums. Forcing the bios to rebuild
    > ESCI; moving memory chips around; disabling USB; getting the recovery
    > console up and doing a chkdsk /r ... no joy.
    >
    > Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW.
    >
    > So maybe it's the motherboard. Maybe it's the SATA drivers I needed to
    > install. Maybe there's a timing issue on VIA K8thingy chipsets. Maybe I've
    > been stupid and tried to use windows while the tide was rising on a full
    > moon. Who fucking knows? All I know is that as the basis for a computing
    > device, Windows XP has failed absolutely and completely. For both business
    > and home. I would quite like to recover the contents of this drive, but
    > the number of "reinstalling always fixes mup.sys problems for me" posts
    > seem to indicate that perhaps this is not an option. We will need to do
    > some more Windows development and reisntalling XP, Visual studio, a bunch
    > of third party tools and a couple of dependent libraries is going to take
    > a non-trivial quantity of time. Not to mention the damn-near certainty
    > that it's going to happen again. Good job the source code I care about is
    > held on subversion on a nice reliable Linux box.
    >
    > What an absolute pile of crap. The only upside to this is that my family
    > (on both sides) have now seen the light and are buying Macs.
    >
    > As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this and can suggest a way
    > of preventing it from happening - I'm all ears. See related post below...
    >
    > Dave


    I've installed XP many many times and never had to use a floppy disk during
    the process. I have XP Pro and Home running on three PC's at home, one at
    work and can think of another 5 or 6 installations I've done for friends and
    not a single one has ever had a single problem. Could I respectfully suggest
    that the issue is either you or crap hardware rather than the OS you're
    trying to install ?
     
    C9H8O4, Nov 12, 2004
    #2
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  3. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    C9H8O4 wrote:
    > Could I respectfully suggest
    > that the issue is either you or crap hardware rather than the OS you're
    > trying to install ?


    You may respectfully suggest it, and indeed I shall take this as such.

    I take it then that you've never installed XP on a machine with serial
    ATA? And perhaps it is crap hardware. Given the time this has taken, the
    two hundred bucks for a new motherboard is beginning to look like a bargain.

    Besides, the old one could be the basis for a *monster* Linux box.

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #3
  4. David Preece

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "David Preece" <> wrote in message
    news:2LYkd.971$...

    > Today's example follows the continuing exploits of a 2 month old Athlon
    > 64. We have brand name memory, hard drive, motherboard and none of the
    > tightarse skimping for which I am rightly famous. Installing XP on this
    > was a complete nightmare until, a number of hours later, I realised you
    > have to press F6 at the start of the boot process and put in a floppy
    > disk (a floppy, I ask you) in order to install Windows. Like, of course
    > you would in 2004.


    This has been around since as long as i can recall (certainly on WinNT3.51).
    What was required was a mass storage driver - which was obviously supplied
    on a separate floppy. FWIW, i have an ASUS P4P800-E which didn't require a
    mass storage driver to get it up and running. Like everything, if the
    manufacturer hasn't submitted the MSD to be included in the build, then it's
    hardly surprising that you would have to install it separately from a
    floppy.

    BTW, from reading the rest of your thread i don't know why you don't have an
    automated build process. They aren't too difficult to setup and can be as
    simple as dropping a floppy with a winnt.sif file on it to set all the
    parameters. I have used RIS extensively and a PC can be brought up on the
    network within half an hour or so - automated, fully patched and ready to
    go.

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
    Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
     
    Mr Scebe, Nov 12, 2004
    #4
  5. David Preece

    steven Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:28:54 +1300, David Preece wrote:

    > It's astounding. Every time I think I'm getting over hating Windows it
    > makes DAMN SURE I have a complete nightmare of some description.
    >
    > Today's example follows the continuing exploits of a 2 month old Athlon
    > 64. We have brand name memory, hard drive, motherboard and none of the
    > tightarse skimping for which I am rightly famous. Installing XP on this
    > was a complete nightmare until, a number of hours later, I realised you
    > have to press F6 at the start of the boot process and put in a floppy
    > disk (a floppy, I ask you) in order to install Windows. Like, of course
    > you would in 2004.


    you mean for thoes fancy arse drivers that the XP installer knows nothing
    about, yea sure. how else do you think the installer will be able to copy
    some files over to that fancy arse raid of yours.

    > Shortly after getting the machine built my company had a contractor come
    > and work for it. He used it for six weeks and it only failed a few
    > times, costing real genuine money every time. But hey, it's windows,
    > it's supposed to shit itself right?


    when your talking about a BETA operating system - yea.

    > Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW.


    the people who wrote the 64bit version of suse have spent a bit more time
    doing it than the people who are *still writing* the code for windows xp
    64bit edition

    > We will need to do some more Windows development and
    > reisntalling XP, Visual studio, a bunch of third party tools and a
    > couple of dependent libraries is going to take a non-trivial quantity of
    > time.


    well when your dealing with a *beta* operating system running *beta*
    applications (not sure if vs + your third party tools come in 64bit
    flavors), install it - configure it - and image the fucker.

    makes sence to me

    > Good job the source code I care about is held on subversion on a
    > nice reliable Linux box.


    good to know your using subversion, myself i have got it on a windows 2003
    server box. it is a bit of a bitch trying to get hook-scripts running
    (because most of the subversion devs live on the little planet called linux
    so windows documentation is **** all at most).

    > What an absolute pile of crap. The only upside to this is that my family
    > (on both sides) have now seen the light and are buying Macs.


    lol - hey got a joke for you

    how do you upgrade a Mac? You buy another one

    well i found it funny!

    > As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this and can suggest a
    > way of preventing it from happening - I'm all ears. See related post
    > below...
    >
    > Dave




    -------------
    Steven H
     
    steven, Nov 12, 2004
    #5
  6. David Preece

    Gordon Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:28:54 +1300, David Preece wrote:

    > As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this and can suggest a
    > way of preventing it from happening - I'm all ears. See related post
    > below...


    As you said "Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW". Seems to me to be an answer.
     
    Gordon, Nov 12, 2004
    #6
  7. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    Mr Scebe wrote:
    > BTW, from reading the rest of your thread i don't know why you don't have an
    > automated build process.


    I was hoping to only have to do it once.

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #7
  8. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    steven wrote:
    >>But hey, it's windows,
    >>it's supposed to shit itself right?

    >
    > when your talking about a BETA operating system - yea.


    I'm sorry, d'you think I'm using 64 bit XP? Even I'm not that suicidal.

    >>Good job the source code I care about is held on subversion on a
    >>nice reliable Linux box.

    >
    > good to know your using subversion, myself i have got it on a windows 2003
    > server box. it is a bit of a bitch trying to get hook-scripts running
    > (because most of the subversion devs live on the little planet called linux
    > so windows documentation is **** all at most).


    So, ummmm, use it on Linux - where it belongs?

    > lol - hey got a joke for you
    >
    > how do you upgrade a Mac? You buy another one


    Ah, yes. Same way you upgrade a TV. Or mobile phone. Or DVD player. Or
    any of a dozen classes of consumer device that actually fucking work.

    >>As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this


    I see you didn't have a reply to that bit.

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #8
  9. David Preece

    Geronimo Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:42:42 +1300, "C9H8O4"
    <> wrote:

    >"David Preece" <> wrote in message
    >news:2LYkd.971$...
    >> It's astounding. Every time I think I'm getting over hating Windows it
    >> makes DAMN SURE I have a complete nightmare of some description.
    >>
    >> Today's example follows the continuing exploits of a 2 month old Athlon
    >> 64. We have brand name memory, hard drive, motherboard and none of the
    >> tightarse skimping for which I am rightly famous. Installing XP on this
    >> was a complete nightmare until, a number of hours later, I realised you
    >> have to press F6 at the start of the boot process and put in a floppy disk
    >> (a floppy, I ask you) in order to install Windows. Like, of course you
    >> would in 2004.
    >>
    >> Shortly after getting the machine built my company had a contractor come
    >> and work for it. He used it for six weeks and it only failed a few times,
    >> costing real genuine money every time. But hey, it's windows, it's
    >> supposed to shit itself right?
    >>
    >> So I get it home and swap the video card (my GF6800 had been sitting in
    >> another box while the machine was at work). The machine boots, reckons
    >> it's lost the video card driver and drops a vga one in instead then
    >> stalls. It does the same thing a few more times then stops booting at all.
    >> Safe mode reveals it to have stopped at mup.sys
    >>
    >> Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering from
    >> this? Read comments from the people who fix PC's for a living and see this
    >> EVERY FUCKING DAY? Anybody feel a twinge of understanding for those saying
    >> "I've been trying to fix this for two days"?
    >>
    >> So I've tried everything in these damn forums. Forcing the bios to rebuild
    >> ESCI; moving memory chips around; disabling USB; getting the recovery
    >> console up and doing a chkdsk /r ... no joy.
    >>
    >> Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW.
    >>
    >> So maybe it's the motherboard. Maybe it's the SATA drivers I needed to
    >> install. Maybe there's a timing issue on VIA K8thingy chipsets. Maybe I've
    >> been stupid and tried to use windows while the tide was rising on a full
    >> moon. Who fucking knows? All I know is that as the basis for a computing
    >> device, Windows XP has failed absolutely and completely. For both business
    >> and home. I would quite like to recover the contents of this drive, but
    >> the number of "reinstalling always fixes mup.sys problems for me" posts
    >> seem to indicate that perhaps this is not an option. We will need to do
    >> some more Windows development and reisntalling XP, Visual studio, a bunch
    >> of third party tools and a couple of dependent libraries is going to take
    >> a non-trivial quantity of time. Not to mention the damn-near certainty
    >> that it's going to happen again. Good job the source code I care about is
    >> held on subversion on a nice reliable Linux box.
    >>
    >> What an absolute pile of crap. The only upside to this is that my family
    >> (on both sides) have now seen the light and are buying Macs.
    >>
    >> As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this and can suggest a way
    >> of preventing it from happening - I'm all ears. See related post below...
    >>
    >> Dave

    >
    >I've installed XP many many times and never had to use a floppy disk during
    >the process. I have XP Pro and Home running on three PC's at home, one at
    >work and can think of another 5 or 6 installations I've done for friends and
    >not a single one has ever had a single problem. Could I respectfully suggest
    >that the issue is either you or crap hardware rather than the OS you're
    >trying to install ?
    >




    He stated the Problem, its the utter Crap VIA thing..

    XP Has to use the Floppy to Install IDE/STATA Drivers..
     
    Geronimo, Nov 12, 2004
    #9
  10. David Preece

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:14:16 +1300, "Mr Scebe" <>
    wrote:
    >
    >I have used RIS extensively and a PC can be brought up on the
    >network within half an hour or so - automated, fully patched and ready to
    >go.
    >

    Apart from the fact that I've never before met anyone who got RIS to
    work - it always fails at the "Hit F12" stage, it's not a practical
    solution for two or three PCs.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Nov 12, 2004
    #10
  11. David Preece

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:41:19 +1300, David Preece
    <> wrote:
    >
    >>>As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this

    >
    >I see you didn't have a reply to that bit.
    >

    As to what causes that, not reading the manual, making the wrong
    choice when presented with an option....

    You need to remove the old video driver before installing a new card.
    The procedure is, remove the old driver, reboot, shutdown, replace
    video card, install new driver. This is so that the new card is not
    trying to use the old drivers but defaults to VGA mode. This is more
    because of badly written video drivers than anything in Windows.

    Depending on your virus software, you may need to inactivate that too.

    As far as the floppy thing is concerned the OS is not yet loaded at
    the stage that you need to provide the drivers for the SATA or RAID.
    Microsoft should either a) provide the drivers on the CD or b) allow
    the loading of drivers from a separate CD. It should be in the docs
    and the OS does prompt during install for special drivers.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Nov 12, 2004
    #11
  12. David Preece

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:14:16 +1300, "Mr Scebe" <>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > >I have used RIS extensively and a PC can be brought up on the
    > >network within half an hour or so - automated, fully patched and ready to
    > >go.
    > >

    > Apart from the fact that I've never before met anyone who got RIS to
    > work - it always fails at the "Hit F12" stage, it's not a practical
    > solution for two or three PCs.


    That's probably because it doesn't have the correct drivers for the network
    card. Under 2000 there was limited support for network cards, but you can
    install more drivers using this method:
    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;246184

    Caution: if you're trying to do it on Compaq deskpro's then there were some
    secondary issues with the network drivers that they supplied - i had a shit
    of a job getting them working at the time (with Intel NIC's). I've just
    tried searching google for the site that i found the solution on, but i
    couldn't see it (this was a couple of years ago). Try this out:
    http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=compaq RIS driver&meta=

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
    Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
     
    Mr Scebe, Nov 12, 2004
    #12
  13. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    Enkidu wrote:
    >>>>As an aside, if anyone *does* know what causes this

    >>

    > As to what causes that, not reading the manual, making the wrong
    > choice when presented with an option....


    Press F7 to hose root volume?

    > You need to remove the old video driver before installing a new card.


    Ah, OK. Remove old video driver to not hose root volume. My bad, it was
    written on the box.

    They were both nVidia cards. It uses a unified driver. Even if you
    switch nVidia with ATI or Matrox (remember them?) Windows should default
    to VGA. In fact, it was in the process of doing so when the drive got hosed.

    > As far as the floppy thing is concerned the OS is not yet loaded at
    > the stage that you need to provide the drivers for the SATA or RAID.
    > Microsoft should either a) provide the drivers on the CD or b) allow
    > the loading of drivers from a separate CD.


    In this case my beef is with the design of the hardware more than
    anything else. I had taken it as read that SATA was going to be more or
    less a replacement for ATA and that a clean upgrade path had been part
    of the design. In much the same was as USB2 and USB1.1 seem to remain
    friends. This whole "spangly raid driver" thing is just a bit too much.

    I just want to connect a disk. If I had known that SATA was going to be
    such a pain in the arse I would have just got an ATA drive and be done
    with it.

    > It should be in the docs
    > and the OS does prompt during install for special drivers.


    I know. The first few times through I didn't though - I'm always pretty
    "wait to be asked a question" rather than "this is your window of
    opportunity".

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #13
  14. David Preece

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "David Preece" <> wrote in message
    news:2LYkd.971$...

    > So I get it home and swap the video card (my GF6800 had been sitting in
    > another box while the machine was at work). The machine boots, reckons
    > it's lost the video card driver and drops a vga one in instead then
    > stalls. It does the same thing a few more times then stops booting at
    > all. Safe mode reveals it to have stopped at mup.sys
    >
    > Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
    > from this?


    This is the network unc driver. I would suggest checking that you have the
    correct network driver installed - boot into safe mode and replace the NIC
    driver with a signed one if possible.

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
    Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
     
    Mr Scebe, Nov 12, 2004
    #14
  15. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    Gordon wrote:
    > As you said "Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW". Seems to me to be an answer.


    There is that, but this machine was bought for a few specific uses.

    * Develop Windows software. We have to support this lame-arse operating
    system because so many people have it. You'll be pleased to hear that
    it's not even on the roadmap for server side.

    * Run 64 bit Linux. More than anything I'm interested in it's
    performance relative to a G5 of the same clock speed.

    * Play Doom 3.

    * Play Half Life 2.

    * Perhaps the occasional blast of UT2004.

    * Maybe even Far Cry would go on something this fast.

    Only the second one of these gets fulfilled by a functioning
    installation of Suse 9.1. Everything else gets done on a Mac.

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #15
  16. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    Geronimo wrote:
    > He stated the Problem, its the utter Crap VIA thing..


    Ah, I knew I'd get one.

    My previous PC was (still is) a KT133A based Athlon. Steady as a rock,
    never even blinked. This was the basis behind buying another via chipset.

    Now, much as though I'd like to foam at the mouth and say there's
    nothing wrong with via, on this occasion I think I might be wrong. This
    is a new machine, and the drive is hosed - I strongly suspect either the
    SATA drivers (which, as we know, are not 'real' MS ones) or that there
    is some description of timing issue caused by via trying to one up nVidia.

    Doesn't answer the question of why SuSE has no problem with it though.

    > XP Has to use the Floppy to Install IDE/STATA Drivers..


    I know this too. The question is: does nForce have the same problem? If
    if so, why's it so hard to make a SATA interface that looks like an ATA
    one to the operating system?

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #16
  17. David Preece

    Allistar Guest

    David Preece wrote:

    > Gordon wrote:
    >> As you said "Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW". Seems to me to be an answer.

    >
    > There is that, but this machine was bought for a few specific uses.
    >
    > * Develop Windows software. We have to support this lame-arse operating
    > system because so many people have it. You'll be pleased to hear that
    > it's not even on the roadmap for server side.
    >
    > * Run 64 bit Linux. More than anything I'm interested in it's
    > performance relative to a G5 of the same clock speed.
    >
    > * Play Doom 3.
    >
    > * Play Half Life 2.
    >
    > * Perhaps the occasional blast of UT2004.


    UT2004 runs perfectly on my Gentoo linux box using an NVidia 5200 (PCI, this
    Serverworks mb doesn't have an AGP slot). Great game. I wish it wouldn't
    distract me form working so much.

    > * Maybe even Far Cry would go on something this fast.
    >
    > Only the second one of these gets fulfilled by a functioning
    > installation of Suse 9.1. Everything else gets done on a Mac.
    >
    > Dave


    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Nov 12, 2004
    #17
  18. David Preece

    David Preece Guest

    Mr Scebe wrote:
    >>Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
    >>from this?

    >
    > This is the network unc driver. I would suggest checking that you have the
    > correct network driver installed


    Ah. Also a common misconception it seems. The name of the driver comes
    up once it has successfully been loaded, so the one after is the one
    we're having problems with. This turns out to be the ACPI driver, and
    this in turn has problems with a corrupt ESCI. In some cases rebuilding
    the ESCI has fixed it - and this is why some people get it when they add
    new cards.

    Not that this information has helped me in any way, but hey. Gotta give
    it a go, right?

    Dave
     
    David Preece, Nov 12, 2004
    #18
  19. David Preece

    Brendan Guest

    On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:28:54 +1300, David Preece wrote:

    > Today's example follows the continuing exploits of a 2 month old Athlon
    > 64.


    Make sure you install the official athlon 64 drivers for the cpu (available
    on www.amd.com). Helps a bit with stability too.

    These also allow coolnquiet to work (make sure you change the power profile
    in control panel - the default one does not work with it, iir. just a
    quirk). Assuming your mb supports it.

    Make sure you install the mb chipset drivers as well... (I assume you did
    this already).

    >We have brand name memory, hard drive, motherboard and none of the
    > tightarse skimping for which I am rightly famous.


    Check the PSU levels. Especially the +12v line. Make sure they are all on
    spec.

    >Installing XP on this
    > was a complete nightmare until, a number of hours later, I realised you
    > have to press F6 at the start of the boot process and put in a floppy
    > disk (a floppy, I ask you) in order to install Windows. Like, of course
    > you would in 2004.


    With my athlon 64 XP system, I did that from the first. I agree they should
    also accept CDROM's, usb drives, etc. But the line has to be drawn
    somewhere - it's only an install app after all..

    I discovered my nforce 3 based MB didn't actually NEED the driver floppy to
    install XP; the nforce ide drivers could be installed after the os boots.

    One thing though: how big is the HD you are installing XP to ? Apparently,
    XP without service pack 1 or better installed do not do drives over 137GB.

    Or more correctly, if the boot partition has files over that 137gb
    threshold, and it's in a pre-sp1 XP, you'll have trouble.

    You could install it to a smaller partition, but making sure it is not on
    the 137gb boundary could be 'fun' if you already have partitions on there
    and added a new one onto the 'end' of the drive. KISS = 1st partition on a
    clean drive, called C:, and this is the os install boot system drive.

    A cdrom with windows XP with SP2 slipstreamed into that disk is the best
    way of avoiding the problem.

    > Shortly after getting the machine built my company had a contractor come
    > and work for it. He used it for six weeks and it only failed a few
    > times, costing real genuine money every time. But hey, it's windows,
    > it's supposed to shit itself right?


    My experience of windows XP has been pretty good. It's been reliable and
    robust, and if we could get rid of the stupid microsoft mentality from it,
    it'd be great.

    I did have some fun with it, when I installed it on my new athlon 64
    system. But I was also playing with two seperate software RAID systems at
    the time and image backups (TIP: software RAID + boot CD disk imaging
    systems generally cannot be made to work)...

    The rest of the fun revolved around CPU drivers, SATA funny business, and
    faulty motherboard driver CD... (I'd like a copy of the original MSI K8N
    Neo Platinum driver CD if anyone has one please).

    > So I get it home and swap the video card (my GF6800 had been sitting in
    > another box while the machine was at work). The machine boots, reckons
    > it's lost the video card driver and drops a vga one in instead then
    > stalls. It does the same thing a few more times then stops booting at
    > all. Safe mode reveals it to have stopped at mup.sys


    Make sure you have all the power connectors connected to that card
    correctly, AND the PSU is holding the voltages steady.

    > Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
    > from this? Read comments from the people who fix PC's for a living and
    > see this EVERY FUCKING DAY? Anybody feel a twinge of understanding for
    > those saying "I've been trying to fix this for two days"?


    Make sure your comp is not connected to the net - especially via a LAN -
    during setup. So you do not get a worm from the net...

    Make sure your drivers are all WCHQ (or whatever) approved, or all known
    good drivers.

    > So I've tried everything in these damn forums. Forcing the bios to
    > rebuild ESCI; moving memory chips around; disabling USB; getting the
    > recovery console up and doing a chkdsk /r ... no joy.


    Try it with just the ram, cpu, video card and HD. Process of elimination.

    Maybe the ram is faulty or incompatible with your MB (borrow a mates ram
    for a day).

    Maybe the motherboard is flaky.

    > Suse 9.1 boots just fine, BTW.


    Which would normally mean windows xp should as well. I mean the hardware
    hardly cares what OS it is running.

    Which would tend to suggest a software problem. Likely drivers. Either
    faulty ones, incompatible, or left out.

    >All I know is that as the basis for a
    > computing device, Windows XP has failed absolutely and completely.


    Think about it logically: if windows XP failed like this for everyone else,
    failed this easily, it would have been on this news group for years
    already. Recalled, media blitz, no xp machines sold, etc, etc.

    Therefore it's not specifically windows XP.

    >For
    > both business and home. I would quite like to recover the contents of
    > this drive, but the number of "reinstalling always fixes mup.sys
    > problems for me" posts seem to indicate that perhaps this is not an
    > option. We will need to do some more Windows development and
    > reisntalling XP, Visual studio, a bunch of third party tools and a
    > couple of dependent libraries is going to take a non-trivial quantity of
    > time. Not to mention the damn-near certainty that it's going to happen
    > again. Good job the source code I care about is held on subversion on a
    > nice reliable Linux box.


    You should have a partition for the OS, and other partitions for your
    important files. Then you install it all, with your main apps on one of
    those OTHER partitions. Then you Image it with Ghost or true image. Then a
    simple boot with the imaging CD will have windows back in no time, your
    apps included.

    Having it all on one partition was never a great idea.

    Having said that, XP should not need to be reinstalled as much as you have
    done, especially if you do not install every bit of software out there on a
    daily basis and keep it up to date and virus/spyware protected.

    --

    .... Brendan

    "Next week your lesson will go into more detail about how USENET differs from reality, even if you aren't able to tell the difference." -- Brian Reid

    Note: All my comments are copyright 12/11/2004 10:31:56 p.m. and are opinion only where not otherwise stated and always "to the best of my recollection". www.computerman.orcon.net.nz.
     
    Brendan, Nov 12, 2004
    #19
  20. David Preece

    Mr Scebe Guest

    "David Preece" <> wrote in message
    news:bN%kd.1013$...
    > Mr Scebe wrote:
    > >>Anyone here googled for mup.sys? Seen the LEGIONS of people suffering
    > >>from this?

    > >
    > > This is the network unc driver. I would suggest checking that you have

    the
    > > correct network driver installed

    >
    > Ah. Also a common misconception it seems. The name of the driver comes
    > up once it has successfully been loaded, so the one after is the one
    > we're having problems with. This turns out to be the ACPI driver, and
    > this in turn has problems with a corrupt ESCI.


    Ok, so you're saying that Linux doesn't care if you had a corrupt ESCI, it
    would just boot anyway (according to your original post)?

    >In some cases rebuilding
    > the ESCI has fixed it - and this is why some people get it when they add
    > new cards.


    I presume that you were getting a stop error (Blue screen of death)? Did you
    try searching on that?

    Apart from all of this, i still can't reconcile how you think it's MS's
    fault for not having a driver installed on their CD for a piece of hardware
    that wasn't around when the OS was built. Or is your complaint the fact that
    you need to install the driver from a floppy rather than a CD?

    --
    Mr Scebe
    Losersh always whine about their 'besht'.
    Winnersh go home and **** the prom queen".
    ~Sean Connery in "The Rock"
     
    Mr Scebe, Nov 12, 2004
    #20
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