I guess I now know why my HDV camcorder was a bargain

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by ng_reader, May 25, 2010.

  1. ng_reader

    ng_reader Guest

    The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    for today's 64-bit operating systems.

    This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for a
    few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port and
    into my Windows7 box.

    Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.

    Thanks, Sony!

    I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...

    I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do, if
    I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9, I'm
    wondering what YOU are doing.
     
    ng_reader, May 25, 2010
    #1
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  2. ng_reader

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-05-25, ng_reader <> wrote:
    > The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    > for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >
    > This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for a
    > few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port and
    > into my Windows7 box.
    >
    > Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    > wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >
    > Thanks, Sony!
    >
    > I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >
    > I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do, if
    > I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9, I'm
    > wondering what YOU are doing.


    <http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogI
    d=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11039061> or
    <http://xrl.us/bhmxwz>:-

    Memory Stick Duoâ„¢ Media Slot

    Capture still images up to 2848x2136 resolution, directly onto Memory
    Stick Duoâ„¢ Media for easy trasfer to PCs for emailing, printing or
    shairing with other compatible Memory Stick® media compatible devices.

    and

    i.LINK is a trademark of Sony, used only to designate that a product
    contains an IEEE1394 connector. All products with an IEEE1394 connector
    may not communicate with each other.

    The current Wikipedia page mentions some 'Windows' problems with
    'Firewire', in the section headed 'Operating system support'
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IEEE_1394_interface&oldid=364071476>

    That is a pretty broad hint on the SonyStyle page that using removable
    media in the camera is the best way of getting data onto a computer.
    Multi-format card readers that plug into the computer's USB socket are
    widely available and not usually expensive.

    This may also be of interest
    <http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?threadID=307400> "Community
    Newsletter: Q&A: Easiest way to transfer MiniDV footage to PC and edit it
    by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 18/09/08 09:21"

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, May 25, 2010
    #2
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  3. ng_reader

    ng_reader Guest

    On 5/25/2010 7:22 AM, Whiskers wrote:
    > On 2010-05-25, ng_reader<> wrote:
    >> The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    >> for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >>
    >> This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for a
    >> few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port and
    >> into my Windows7 box.
    >>
    >> Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    >> wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >>
    >> Thanks, Sony!
    >>
    >> I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >>
    >> I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do, if
    >> I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9, I'm
    >> wondering what YOU are doing.

    >
    > <http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogI
    > d=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11039061> or
    > <http://xrl.us/bhmxwz>:-
    >
    > Memory Stick Duoâ„¢ Media Slot
    >
    > Capture still images up to 2848x2136 resolution, directly onto Memory
    > Stick Duoâ„¢ Media for easy trasfer to PCs for emailing, printing or
    > shairing with other compatible Memory Stick® media compatible devices.
    >
    > and
    >
    > i.LINK is a trademark of Sony, used only to designate that a product
    > contains an IEEE1394 connector. All products with an IEEE1394 connector
    > may not communicate with each other.
    >
    > The current Wikipedia page mentions some 'Windows' problems with
    > 'Firewire', in the section headed 'Operating system support'
    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IEEE_1394_interface&oldid=364071476>


    Looks like Firewire is a better standard, what?

    >
    > That is a pretty broad hint on the SonyStyle page that using removable
    > media in the camera is the best way of getting data onto a computer.
    > Multi-format card readers that plug into the computer's USB socket are
    > widely available and not usually expensive.


    The camcorder has a memory stick but that is for taking pictures, not
    for full motion video; nor does it have sound...

    >
    > This may also be of interest
    > <http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10149_102-0.html?threadID=307400> "Community
    > Newsletter: Q&A: Easiest way to transfer MiniDV footage to PC and edit it
    > by Lee Koo (ADMIN) - 18/09/08 09:21"
    >


    It's not MiniDV, as much as HDV using MiniDV media.

    If USB 2.0 is faster than Firewire, perhaps there is an adapter
    available? That seems an inexpensive solution.
     
    ng_reader, May 25, 2010
    #3
  4. ng_reader

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-05-25, ng_reader <> wrote:
    > On 5/25/2010 7:22 AM, Whiskers wrote:
    >> On 2010-05-25, ng_reader<> wrote:


    [...]

    > It's not MiniDV, as much as HDV using MiniDV media.
    >
    > If USB 2.0 is faster than Firewire, perhaps there is an adapter
    > available? That seems an inexpensive solution.


    Hasn't the camera got a USB socket? (Probably a mini-USB). 'Firewire'
    (or iLink as Sony call it) could still be 'quicker' than USB2 for
    transferring video - particularly if the camera only has a slow USB
    interface. I don't think there are any 'converters'.

    As I understand it, transferring data from miniDV cassettes has to happen
    'in real time' anyway - so a 5-minute clip will take at least 5 minutes to
    transfer, no matter what sort of connection you use.

    If both camera and computer have 'audio' and 'video' analogue connections,
    it should be possible to play the tape on the camera and record it on the
    computer, using a suitable multimedia program on the computer. Or if you
    have a DVD recorder/player with analogue audio and video inputs, use that
    to transcribe the clip and then use the DVD to get it into the computer.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, May 25, 2010
    #4
  5. ng_reader

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:09:40 -0400, ng_reader wrote:

    > The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    > for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >
    > This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for a
    > few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port and
    > into my Windows7 box.
    >
    > Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    > wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >
    > Thanks, Sony!
    >
    > I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >
    > I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do, if
    > I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9, I'm
    > wondering what YOU are doing.


    You must have a problem. Got any idea of what transfer rate you're
    getting? Around 3 megabytes per second is the average for the
    older 1394 specs. Yeh that's a tad slow but you're not going to wait days
    to transfer a couple minutes of HD video.
     
    Meat Plow, May 25, 2010
    #5
  6. ng_reader

    ng_reader Guest

    On 5/25/2010 9:12 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
    > On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:09:40 -0400, ng_reader wrote:
    >
    >> The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    >> for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >>
    >> This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for a
    >> few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port and
    >> into my Windows7 box.
    >>
    >> Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    >> wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >>
    >> Thanks, Sony!
    >>
    >> I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >>
    >> I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do, if
    >> I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9, I'm
    >> wondering what YOU are doing.

    >
    > You must have a problem. Got any idea of what transfer rate you're
    > getting? Around 3 megabytes per second is the average for the
    > older 1394 specs. Yeh that's a tad slow but you're not going to wait days
    > to transfer a couple minutes of HD video.



    The transfer as I understand it and having lived it --- is n real time.
    So if I have 30 minutes of camera shake and 4 minutes of usable video,
    it's going to take all 34+ minutes to transfer the video to the hard disk.

    It's sounds like a stupid thing to me. Firewire, HiDef, Quad-Core, fFaAiIlL
     
    ng_reader, May 25, 2010
    #6
  7. ng_reader

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2010 10:57:26 -0400, ng_reader wrote:

    > On 5/25/2010 9:12 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
    >> On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:09:40 -0400, ng_reader wrote:
    >>
    >>> The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    >>> for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >>>
    >>> This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for
    >>> a few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port
    >>> and into my Windows7 box.
    >>>
    >>> Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    >>> wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks, Sony!
    >>>
    >>> I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >>>
    >>> I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do,
    >>> if I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9,
    >>> I'm wondering what YOU are doing.

    >>
    >> You must have a problem. Got any idea of what transfer rate you're
    >> getting? Around 3 megabytes per second is the average for the older
    >> 1394 specs. Yeh that's a tad slow but you're not going to wait days to
    >> transfer a couple minutes of HD video.

    >
    >
    > The transfer as I understand it and having lived it --- is n real time.
    > So if I have 30 minutes of camera shake and 4 minutes of usable video,
    > it's going to take all 34+ minutes to transfer the video to the hard
    > disk.
    >
    > It's sounds like a stupid thing to me. Firewire, HiDef, Quad-Core,
    > fFaAiIlL


    So it takes 34 minutes to transfer 34 minutes of raw uncompressed video.
    Been that way with tape based cameras since they could transfer via 1394.

    What seems to be more your liking is a camera that compresses to an
    internal hard drive MPEG video allowing a much faster transfer.
     
    Meat Plow, May 25, 2010
    #7
  8. ng_reader

    ng_reader Guest

    On 5/25/2010 11:28 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
    > On Tue, 25 May 2010 10:57:26 -0400, ng_reader wrote:
    >
    >> On 5/25/2010 9:12 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:09:40 -0400, ng_reader wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    >>>> for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >>>>
    >>>> This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for
    >>>> a few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port
    >>>> and into my Windows7 box.
    >>>>
    >>>> Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    >>>> wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks, Sony!
    >>>>
    >>>> I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >>>>
    >>>> I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do,
    >>>> if I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9,
    >>>> I'm wondering what YOU are doing.
    >>>
    >>> You must have a problem. Got any idea of what transfer rate you're
    >>> getting? Around 3 megabytes per second is the average for the older
    >>> 1394 specs. Yeh that's a tad slow but you're not going to wait days to
    >>> transfer a couple minutes of HD video.

    >>
    >>
    >> The transfer as I understand it and having lived it --- is n real time.
    >> So if I have 30 minutes of camera shake and 4 minutes of usable video,
    >> it's going to take all 34+ minutes to transfer the video to the hard
    >> disk.
    >>
    >> It's sounds like a stupid thing to me. Firewire, HiDef, Quad-Core,
    >> fFaAiIlL

    >
    > So it takes 34 minutes to transfer 34 minutes of raw uncompressed video.
    > Been that way with tape based cameras since they could transfer via 1394.
    >
    > What seems to be more your liking is a camera that compresses to an
    > internal hard drive MPEG video allowing a much faster transfer.



    Does it work that way? I don't know. Could be. But, that's not what I
    have and it seems a little silly to buy another camcorder when I have a
    perfectly good one right here.
     
    ng_reader, May 25, 2010
    #8
  9. ng_reader

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:53:00 -0400, ng_reader wrote:

    > On 5/25/2010 11:28 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
    >> On Tue, 25 May 2010 10:57:26 -0400, ng_reader wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 5/25/2010 9:12 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
    >>>> On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:09:40 -0400, ng_reader wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too
    >>>>> slow for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying
    >>>>> for a few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire
    >>>>> port and into my Windows7 box.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    >>>>> wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thanks, Sony!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could
    >>>>> do, if I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or
    >>>>> HC-9, I'm wondering what YOU are doing.
    >>>>
    >>>> You must have a problem. Got any idea of what transfer rate you're
    >>>> getting? Around 3 megabytes per second is the average for the older
    >>>> 1394 specs. Yeh that's a tad slow but you're not going to wait days
    >>>> to transfer a couple minutes of HD video.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The transfer as I understand it and having lived it --- is n real
    >>> time. So if I have 30 minutes of camera shake and 4 minutes of usable
    >>> video, it's going to take all 34+ minutes to transfer the video to the
    >>> hard disk.
    >>>
    >>> It's sounds like a stupid thing to me. Firewire, HiDef, Quad-Core,
    >>> fFaAiIlL

    >>
    >> So it takes 34 minutes to transfer 34 minutes of raw uncompressed
    >> video. Been that way with tape based cameras since they could transfer
    >> via 1394.
    >>
    >> What seems to be more your liking is a camera that compresses to an
    >> internal hard drive MPEG video allowing a much faster transfer.

    >
    >
    > Does it work that way? I don't know. Could be. But, that's not what I
    > have and it seems a little silly to buy another camcorder when I have a
    > perfectly good one right here.


    I didn't bother to look up your camera model so I assumed by your
    description of the transfer method the storage medium was tape.
    As far as I know there is no other way to transfer from tape to PC than
    real time. A camera with a hard drive can transfer much faster, as fast
    as the port will allow.
     
    Meat Plow, May 25, 2010
    #9
  10. ng_reader

    ng_reader Guest


    > I didn't bother to look up your camera model so I assumed by your
    > description of the transfer method the storage medium was tape.
    > As far as I know there is no other way to transfer from tape to PC than
    > real time. A camera with a hard drive can transfer much faster, as fast
    > as the port will allow.


    It's making me a little angry that 1) Bill Gates said we'd never need
    more than 640k or memory (something like that) and that Sony has taken
    the position to leave anyone who has an HDV camcorder like mine, on the
    outside looking in.

    As an aside, Sony makes this software called "PMB" for Picture Motion
    Bridge.

    1) do they have a 64-bit version of PMB for use of Sony camcorders? yes
    2) if you don't have the current version does it take about 3 hours and
    two downloads and 3 PC restarts to get this 64-bit software? yes
    3) Does it work? no


    epicFail
     
    ng_reader, May 25, 2010
    #10
  11. ng_reader

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:56:20 -0400, ng_reader wrote:

    >> I didn't bother to look up your camera model so I assumed by your
    >> description of the transfer method the storage medium was tape. As far
    >> as I know there is no other way to transfer from tape to PC than real
    >> time. A camera with a hard drive can transfer much faster, as fast as
    >> the port will allow.

    >
    > It's making me a little angry that 1) Bill Gates said we'd never need
    > more than 640k or memory (something like that) and that Sony has taken
    > the position to leave anyone who has an HDV camcorder like mine, on the
    > outside looking in.
    >
    > As an aside, Sony makes this software called "PMB" for Picture Motion
    > Bridge.
    >
    > 1) do they have a 64-bit version of PMB for use of Sony camcorders? yes
    > 2) if you don't have the current version does it take about 3 hours and
    > two downloads and 3 PC restarts to get this 64-bit software? yes 3) Does
    > it work? no
    >
    >
    > epicFail


    PMB Picture Motion Browser? Have heard of that being a former Sony camera
    owner from way back. Looks like your issues are in addition operating
    system related. I use Sony Movie Studio but on 32 bit platform.
     
    Meat Plow, May 25, 2010
    #11
  12. ng_reader

    ng_reader Guest

    On 5/25/2010 4:09 PM, Meat Plow wrote:
    > On Tue, 25 May 2010 15:56:20 -0400, ng_reader wrote:
    >
    >>> I didn't bother to look up your camera model so I assumed by your
    >>> description of the transfer method the storage medium was tape. As far
    >>> as I know there is no other way to transfer from tape to PC than real
    >>> time. A camera with a hard drive can transfer much faster, as fast as
    >>> the port will allow.

    >>
    >> It's making me a little angry that 1) Bill Gates said we'd never need
    >> more than 640k or memory (something like that) and that Sony has taken
    >> the position to leave anyone who has an HDV camcorder like mine, on the
    >> outside looking in.
    >>
    >> As an aside, Sony makes this software called "PMB" for Picture Motion
    >> Bridge.
    >>
    >> 1) do they have a 64-bit version of PMB for use of Sony camcorders? yes
    >> 2) if you don't have the current version does it take about 3 hours and
    >> two downloads and 3 PC restarts to get this 64-bit software? yes 3) Does
    >> it work? no
    >>
    >>
    >> epicFail

    >
    > PMB Picture Motion Browser? Have heard of that being a former Sony camera
    > owner from way back. Looks like your issues are in addition operating
    > system related. I use Sony Movie Studio but on 32 bit platform.


    right you are I stand (rather sit) corrected.

    And, if you are counting, Sony would prefer that people buy Vegas Pro.
    Which, I downloaded and tried to install but again - the interface
    wasn't transferring the data. PMB. It's up to version 5.x now. Seemed to
    be a little like Piccasso what with wanting to organize all my photos
    and recognizes faces and schtuff.
     
    ng_reader, May 25, 2010
    #12
  13. The only way you MIGHT be able to get around this problem is set up Windows
    XP on another system or inside Oracle Virtualbox. Max out everything
    (proc, ram, etc) and mount the camcorder to the 1394.

    No promises but that is the last thing I would try.

    ng_reader wrote:

    > The IEEE 1394 port, the way that it exports data to a PC, is too slow
    > for today's 64-bit operating systems.
    >
    > This, according to Sony. Its a model HDR-HC7 and I've been trying for a
    > few days to get about 5 minutes of video through my firewire port and
    > into my Windows7 box.
    >
    > Sony suggested I get a "video capture card", but, admitted, that I
    > wouldn't be getting my HD content, only SD.
    >
    > Thanks, Sony!
    >
    > I wonder if I could do this in Linux or something...
    >
    > I have doubts that 32-bit Win7 would work. Which, I guess I could do, if
    > I had to. But if you have either the HC-3 or HC-5 or HC-7 or HC-9, I'm
    > wondering what YOU are doing.
     
    Robert J Harsh, Jun 4, 2010
    #13
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