I am returning to programming - help needed, please.

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Knut Arvid Keilen, May 4, 2007.

  1. Some 10 to 20 years ago I was doing quite a deal of Basic and Pascal (and a
    little Modula-2) programming using some books, printouts and a
    small personal computer that was not up to the standard.

    I started up with Borland International's Turbo Pascal Reference Manual
    version 2.0 for MS-DOS using 3.5 inch floppy disks
    (which were probably single sided and maybe not IBM-style formatted like
    today).

    The operating system was either MS-DOS 2.0 or the then popular MS-DOS 2.11
    version.

    A little later on I was using an IBM PC AT computer having a 20 MB hard
    drive. The operating system was MS-DOS 5.0 or 6.0 at best.
    I was able to retrieve a program from that time with the name of gw.bat (or
    rather GWBASIC.exe) which was DOS-based.

    Also there were the QBasic program which came with MS-DOS 5.0 or 6.0. There
    were three Basic demo programs included there which I do not have anymore.

    The only thing I have left from that time is the Borland International
    Reference Manual version 2.0 . All the other things have been discarded, but
    I had much fun that time.

    When at High School I got in touch with C++ (In Unix there is instead C in
    use, at least).

    At that time, I guessed there were some different makers of C++, including
    Microsoft Corporation, Borland International and also Symantec Corporation.

    Today, when running Windows XP Home Edition / Windows XP Professional or the
    like on a Pentium 4 based machine or the similar,
    I would have like to have an (intelligent) editor for writing the programs
    and also modules (based either in RAM-memory or reading / writing to or from
    disk)
    for compiling, linking, debugging and all those things that are necessary.
    Unfortunately this sometimes gets a little complicated, either because of
    lack of knowledge (books / manuals),
    lack of money to buy the necessary equipment and software and therefore lack
    of the resources needed to do all these things.

    I'll skip Java for my needed use, because I have most of it already (at
    least downloaded, but not always installed). Also I find it a little
    difficult to do Java programming.

    Some programming software are stand-alone products, some other are bundled.
    I would like to know where to get C++ (or better) programming software for
    my use.

    Thanks !
     
    Knut Arvid Keilen, May 4, 2007
    #1
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  2. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Blackberry Guest

    Blackberry, May 4, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "Knut Arvid Keilen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Some 10 to 20 years ago I was doing quite a deal of Basic and Pascal (and
    > a little Modula-2) programming using some books, printouts and a
    > small personal computer that was not up to the standard.
    >
    > I started up with Borland International's Turbo Pascal Reference Manual
    > version 2.0 for MS-DOS using 3.5 inch floppy disks
    > (which were probably single sided and maybe not IBM-style formatted like
    > today).
    >
    > The operating system was either MS-DOS 2.0 or the then popular MS-DOS 2.11
    > version.
    >
    > A little later on I was using an IBM PC AT computer having a 20 MB hard
    > drive. The operating system was MS-DOS 5.0 or 6.0 at best.
    > I was able to retrieve a program from that time with the name of gw.bat
    > (or rather GWBASIC.exe) which was DOS-based.
    >
    > Also there were the QBasic program which came with MS-DOS 5.0 or 6.0.
    > There were three Basic demo programs included there which I do not have
    > anymore.
    >
    > The only thing I have left from that time is the Borland International
    > Reference Manual version 2.0 . All the other things have been discarded,
    > but I had much fun that time.
    >
    > When at High School I got in touch with C++ (In Unix there is instead C in
    > use, at least).
    >
    > At that time, I guessed there were some different makers of C++, including
    > Microsoft Corporation, Borland International and also Symantec
    > Corporation.
    >
    > Today, when running Windows XP Home Edition / Windows XP Professional or
    > the like on a Pentium 4 based machine or the similar,
    > I would have like to have an (intelligent) editor for writing the programs
    > and also modules (based either in RAM-memory or reading / writing to or
    > from disk)
    > for compiling, linking, debugging and all those things that are necessary.
    > Unfortunately this sometimes gets a little complicated, either because of
    > lack of knowledge (books / manuals),
    > lack of money to buy the necessary equipment and software and therefore
    > lack of the resources needed to do all these things.
    >
    > I'll skip Java for my needed use, because I have most of it already (at
    > least downloaded, but not always installed). Also I find it a little
    > difficult to do Java programming.
    >
    > Some programming software are stand-alone products, some other are
    > bundled. I would like to know where to get C++ (or better) programming
    > software for my use.
    >
    > Thanks !


    I counted 39 lines of "code" in your OP while only two of them were needed.
    I hope your code writing when programming is more concise ;-)
     
    Eye In The Sky, May 4, 2007
    #3
  4. On Fri, 4 May 2007 22:49:47 +0200, "Knut Arvid Keilen"
    <> wrote:

    >Some programming software are stand-alone products, some other are bundled.
    >I would like to know where to get C++ (or better) programming software for
    >my use.


    There is a free version of Visual Studio 2005 that includes C++

    If you like it you can buy the professional edition to produce
    distributable applications.

    --
    Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software Ltd

    EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.

    http://www.easynn.com
     
    Steve Wolstenholme, May 4, 2007
    #4
  5. Knut Arvid Keilen

    why? Guest

    On Fri, 4 May 2007 22:49:47 +0200, Knut Arvid Keilen wrote:


    <snip history and programming languages evolution of>

    >Today, when running Windows XP Home Edition / Windows XP Professional or the
    >like on a Pentium 4 based machine or the similar,
    >I would have like to have an (intelligent) editor for writing the programs


    What features make it intelligent?

    >and also modules (based either in RAM-memory or reading / writing to or from
    >disk)
    >for compiling, linking, debugging and all those things that are necessary.
    >Unfortunately this sometimes gets a little complicated, either because of
    >lack of knowledge (books / manuals),
    >lack of money to buy the necessary equipment and software and therefore lack
    >of the resources needed to do all these things.


    There is just about a free version of any programming tool and (maybe)
    endless manuals, tutorials all on line.

    >I'll skip Java for my needed use, because I have most of it already (at
    >least downloaded, but not always installed). Also I find it a little
    >difficult to do Java programming.
    >
    >Some programming software are stand-alone products, some other are bundled.
    >I would like to know where to get C++ (or better) programming software for
    >my use.


    A PC running some version of Linux will at least give you
    Pascal, mono,C,C++,Perl,TCK/TK,Fortran,Smalltalk,Java, Python,ADA and
    many others as well and many editors and development tools.

    Many of these exist for Windows platforms also as free use, FPC
    freepascal, Borland is still around for a while at least, DJGPP a DOS
    port of free GNU C/C++ compiler with I recall an IDE front end called
    rhino.

    Inexpensive editors like UltreEdit or maybe even free editor with syxtax
    highlighting for many languages.

    There was at least 1 long programming language thread in 24HSHD,
    http://groups.google.com/group/24hoursupport.helpdesk/topics and various
    short threads.

    In either case lots of pointers to use www.google.com or
    http://groups.google.com/ to find things, there are lots of programming
    related news groups.

    Me
     
    why?, May 4, 2007
    #5
  6. On Fri, 04 May 2007 13:49:47 -0700, Knut Arvid Keilen
    <> wrote:

    > Some 10 to 20 years ago..
    >
    > I would like to know where to get C++ (or better) programming software
    > for my use.



    I thought about killing myself [twice] while trying to read your inane
    post.

    Please, for cry'n-out-loud, choose another line of work. There's enough
    sloppy
    coding already going 'round.
    --
    Slack
     
    =?utf-8?B?4paAU2xhY2s=?=, May 5, 2007
    #6
  7. Knut Arvid Keilen

    elaich Guest

    "Eye In The Sky" <ruleman@> wrote in
    news::

    > I counted 39 lines of "code" in your OP while only two of them were
    > needed. I hope your code writing when programming is more concise ;-)


    I counted more than 50 lines of unneeded quoted text before your 2 line
    reply. I wish you stupid ass Outhouse Express users would learn proper
    Usenet etiquette.

    --
    A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
    Q: Why is top posting frowned upon?
     
    elaich, May 5, 2007
    #7
  8. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Bert Hyman Guest

    In news: "Knut Arvid Keilen"
    <> wrote:

    > Some programming software are stand-alone products, some other are
    > bundled. I would like to know where to get C++ (or better) programming
    > software for my use.


    For Windows development, look at Visual Studio Express from Microsoft;
    it's free and lets you build C#, C++, Visual Basic and Visual J#
    applications.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/

    I use Visual Studio 2005; I've never used the "Express" version, so I
    really can't say just how good it is. But, free is a good start.

    --
    Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN
     
    Bert Hyman, May 5, 2007
    #8
  9. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Robb Guest

    ?Slack wrote:
    >On Fri, 04 May 2007 13:49:47 -0700, Knut Arvid Keilen
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> Some 10 to 20 years ago..

    >
    >I thought about killing myself [twice] while trying to read your inane
    >post.


    Tried watching a cable news channel lately ?Slack

    Anyway, you're doing something funny with the question marks.

    >Please, for cry'n-out-loud, choose another line of work. There's enough
    >sloppy coding already going 'round.


    What would you say about giving him a chance. It was twenty years today
    when Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play, despite the fact they all lived in
    a cramped yellow submarine, they played with style. Yeah, they got by with
    a little help from their friends, but did anyone get up and walk out on ?them

    I guess all I'm saying, is, give a chance a peece.


    --
    Robb | loosie dis guise in die mines
     
    Robb, May 5, 2007
    #9
  10. On Fri, 04 May 2007 16:59:48 -0700, Robb <> wrote:

    > ?Slack wrote:
    >> On Fri, 04 May 2007 13:49:47 -0700, Knut Arvid Keilen
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Some 10 to 20 years ago..

    >>
    >> I thought about killing myself [twice] while trying to read your inane
    >> post.

    >
    > Tried watching a cable news channel lately ?Slack


    No; I don't own a TV.

    > Anyway, you're doing something funny with the question marks.


    Put the bong down. Don't you think you've done enough damage?

    >> Please, for cry'n-out-loud, choose another line of work. There's enough
    >> sloppy coding already going 'round.

    >
    > What would you say about giving him a chance. It was twenty years today
    > when Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play, despite the fact they all
    > lived in
    > a cramped yellow submarine, they played with style. Yeah, they got by
    > with
    > a little help from their friends, but did anyone get up and walk out on
    > ?them


    I did. They sucked back then, and they still suck.

    > I guess all I'm saying, is, give a chance a peece.
    >
    >

    Yeah, a piece [of Shiite] is right!
    --
    Slack
     
    =?utf-8?B?4paAU2xhY2s=?=, May 5, 2007
    #10
  11. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Vanguard Guest

    "elaich" wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "Eye In The Sky" wrote :
    >
    >> I counted 39 lines of "code" in your OP while only two of them were
    >> needed.

    >
    > I counted more than 50 lines of unneeded quoted text before your 2
    > line
    > reply. I wish you stupid ass Outhouse Express users would learn proper
    > Usenet etiquette.


    Nothing to do with the NNTP client that the poster uses. Has all to do
    with laziness. The same lack of quote snipping is evidenced by users of
    all NNTP clients.
     
    Vanguard, May 5, 2007
    #11
  12. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Vanguard Guest

    ActivePerl is free. This provides a scripting language that runs on
    probably all the platforms on which you will deal with. Python is nice
    but its super slowness kills it for most business uses. Rather than
    learn Windows scripting (Wscript & Cscript), Korn shell or other UNIX
    shell scripting, or whatever flavor of scripting has been standard for a
    particular OS, you just use Perl on all of them. Perl will scan the
    code before running to make sure your script is valid, much like when
    you compile, so you don't end up halfway through the script to then find
    a problem that prevents you from saving or using all that data that
    you've processed up to that point.

    Visual Studio 2005 Express is free so you can get your C++ and C# that
    way. When you need more then you can get the regular Studio .Net.

    You don't give a clue as to what IT service markets you are targeting.
    Java is still in big demand and if you know C++ then it's not much of a
    jump to Java. And if you truly need the low-level access that C affords
    you could still use it along with Java. If you don't like Netbeans IDE
    (which you can get in a JDK bundle), you could try Borland's JBuilder.

    If you still think Pascal has some use for use, look at Borland's Delphi
    (aka Object Pascal). When interviewing for QA/QE positions, I have
    never seen openings for Pascal/Delphi programmers. Most times when I
    see it used is by someone that is still in or just got of college
    because that's the *training* language they used there. Borland used to
    have free versions of their CodeGear products, like JBuilder, but it's
    been over 6 years since I bothered with the Borland stuff. I took a
    quick glance and it looks like all you can get now is their 30-day
    trialware.

    A good place to start getting info and downloads of freeware compilers
    is:

    http://www.thefreecountry.com/
    "Free programmer's, webmaster's, and security resources"
     
    Vanguard, May 5, 2007
    #12
  13. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Guest

    ?Slack <> wrote:

    >> What would you say about giving him a chance. It was twenty years today
    >> when Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play, despite the fact they all
    >> lived in
    >> a cramped yellow submarine, they played with style. Yeah, they got by
    >> with
    >> a little help from their friends, but did anyone get up and walk out on
    >> ?them


    >I did. They sucked back then, and they still suck.


    >> I guess all I'm saying, is, give a chance a peece.


    >Yeah, a piece [of Shiite] is right!


    Just A Day in the Life
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=gZez_k4vAzU


    --
    whitney music box
    http://www.coverpop.com/whitney/index.php?var=v11
     
    , May 5, 2007
    #13
  14. Blinky the Shark, May 5, 2007
    #14
  15. Robb wrote:

    > What would you say about giving him a chance. It was twenty years today
    > when Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play, despite the fact they all lived in
    > a cramped yellow submarine, they played with style. Yeah, they got by with
    > a little help from their friends, but did anyone get up and walk out on ?them
    >
    > I guess all I'm saying, is, give a chance a peece.


    Power to the people right on.


    --
    Blinky T. "the egg man" Shark RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
     
    Blinky the Shark, May 5, 2007
    #15
  16. Blinky the Shark wrote:
    > Robb wrote:


    >>I guess all I'm saying, is, give a chance a peece.


    > Power to the people right on.


    Farm out, Daddio.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, May 5, 2007
    #16
  17. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2007-05-05, Blinky the Shark <> wrote:
    >"elaich" wrote in message news:...
    >>>
    >>> "Eye In The Sky" wrote :
    >>>
    >>>> I counted 39 lines of "code" in your OP while only two of them were
    >>>> needed.
    >>>
    >>> I counted more than 50 lines of unneeded quoted text before your 2
    >>> line
    >>> reply. I wish you stupid ass Outhouse Express users would learn proper
    >>> Usenet etiquette.

    >>
    >> Nothing to do with the NNTP client that the poster uses. Has all to do
    >> with laziness. The same lack of quote snipping is evidenced by users of
    >> all NNTP clients.

    >
    > No, the slrn mafia always snips. ;)


    Sometimes too much. <G>

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
     
    Whiskers, May 5, 2007
    #17
  18. "elaich" <> wrote in message news:...
    > "Eye In The Sky" <ruleman@> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >> I counted 39 lines of "code" in your OP while only two of them were
    >> needed. I hope your code writing when programming is more concise ;-)

    >
    > I counted more than 50 lines of unneeded quoted text before your 2 line
    > reply. I wish you stupid ass Outhouse Express users would learn proper
    > Usenet etiquette.
    >



    Necessary to quote entire OP to document/emphasize my point.

    Curious though about your jab at my newsreader. I'm wondering--- perhaps
    you're one of those wannabe elitists who like to pay for things he can get
    for free? So then maybe you need to rationalize that choice by trying to
    convince yourself the paid model is somehow better? While those who use a
    free and fully functional version are somehow slugs and lowlifes?

    Hmmmm?
     
    Eye In The Sky, May 5, 2007
    #18
  19. Knut Arvid Keilen

    Vanguard Guest

    "Blinky the Shark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > No, the slrn mafia always snips. ;)



    I believe those persons are called mohels.
     
    Vanguard, May 5, 2007
    #19
  20. "Knut Arvid Keilen" <> skrev i melding
    news:...
    > Some 10 to 20 years ago I was doing quite a deal of Basic and Pascal (and
    > a little Modula-2) programming using some books, printouts and a
    > small personal computer that was not up to the standard.
    >
    >
    > Some programming software are stand-alone products, some other are
    > bundled. I would like to know where to get C++ (or better) programming
    > software for my use.
    >
    > Thanks !
    >
    >


    Some television or cinema presentations contains computer-created animation
    scenes.

    For example there is the movie "Abyss".

    Also there are true movies, which can be either bought on DVD or even
    downloaded some places.

    Also there are series about dinosaurs. How they lived and looked like is
    shown up in a coloured landscape,
    including their bodily movements, quarrels and the like.

    A software program like Starry Night Pro Plus version 5.0 or 6.0 (or
    Internet Explorer 6 / 7 for that matter) is probably not
    made up by people writing single instructions (like PUSH DX / POP DX) at a
    time. But whether it is made from top to bottom
    or bottom to top is a little difficult to comprehend. At least I can use the
    Debug program to have a look at some of the code for
    such programs, but when the instructions are in the hundreds of thousands or
    even millions, it gets harder to know it all.

    Thanks !
     
    Knut Arvid Keilen, May 5, 2007
    #20
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