I am loosing the will to cert.

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by pastypies, Oct 29, 2003.

  1. pastypies

    pastypies Guest

    With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will to do
    anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope. I
    feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.

    I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't cut it
    in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
    interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good technical
    IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question during
    interview.

    Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves which
    makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would say for
    every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
    fraudulent one.

    People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely help
    get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no certs.

    I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a year
    almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
    material to pass the exams.

    Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade my
    cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be just
    downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the above.

    This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to go from
    joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop these exam
    answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change the exam
    format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in part at
    least.

    Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may take a
    while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just in
    time for the win 2000 exams to expire.

    You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you could
    have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not be able
    to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
    bashing away at it until they got a pass.

    What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
    braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
     
    pastypies, Oct 29, 2003
    #1
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  2. pastypies

    Simon Geary Guest


    >
    > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
    > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
    >


    They did a pretty good job of shutting Napster down when they put their mind
    to it. And CompTIA got a braindump site shut down recently as well, so it
    can be done.
     
    Simon Geary, Oct 29, 2003
    #2
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  3. pastypies

    Rowdy Guest

    first of all. an mcse is a mcse. a job is a job. don't confuse the 2. as
    you say in your post, you are one above a guy "similar to yourself" who has
    "no mcse cert". but in the real world, all the same rules apply with or
    without an mcse cert.

    office politics. professionalism. how well you can sell yourself. how well
    you bullshit. who you know. who you suck up to. blah..blah..blah.... imho,
    a guy who can do all these really well and has "no mcse" can probably beat
    you out of a job. so start selling yourself!

    re: w2k3 certification. you already did 7 exams. might as well the the 2 to
    upgrade your cert, if you have the time & money.

    RY
     
    Rowdy, Oct 29, 2003
    #3
  4. pastypies

    billyw Guest

    i honestly dont think ms want to stop the testkings of this world.
    they want to ensure that there is a wealth of percieved experience out there
    to service their products.
    making sure it's the defacto standard

    "Simon Geary" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > >
    > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
    > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
    > >

    >
    > They did a pretty good job of shutting Napster down when they put their

    mind
    > to it. And CompTIA got a braindump site shut down recently as well, so it
    > can be done.
    >
    >
     
    billyw, Oct 29, 2003
    #4
  5. pastypies

    Consultant Guest

    you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will be
    exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of the
    main reasons the mcngp was formed.


    "pastypies" <> wrote in message
    news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$...
    > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will to

    do
    > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope. I
    > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
    >
    > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't cut

    it
    > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
    > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good technical
    > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question during
    > interview.
    >
    > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves which
    > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would say

    for
    > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
    > fraudulent one.
    >
    > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely help
    > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no certs.
    >
    > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a year
    > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
    > material to pass the exams.
    >
    > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade my
    > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be just
    > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the above.
    >
    > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to go

    from
    > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop these

    exam
    > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change the

    exam
    > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in part at
    > least.
    >
    > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may take a
    > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just in
    > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
    >
    > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you could
    > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not be

    able
    > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
    > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
    >
    > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
    > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Oct 29, 2003
    #5
  6. pastypies

    Tron2003 Guest

    If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
    certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel Microsoft
    comes up short on.


    "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will be
    > exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of the
    > main reasons the mcngp was formed.
    >
    >
    > "pastypies" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$...
    > > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will to

    > do
    > > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope. I
    > > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
    > >
    > > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't

    cut
    > it
    > > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
    > > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good

    technical
    > > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question

    during
    > > interview.
    > >
    > > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves

    which
    > > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would say

    > for
    > > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
    > > fraudulent one.
    > >
    > > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely

    help
    > > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no certs.
    > >
    > > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a

    year
    > > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
    > > material to pass the exams.
    > >
    > > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade

    my
    > > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be

    just
    > > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the

    above.
    > >
    > > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to go

    > from
    > > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop these

    > exam
    > > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change the

    > exam
    > > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in part

    at
    > > least.
    > >
    > > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may take

    a
    > > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just in
    > > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
    > >
    > > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you could
    > > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not be

    > able
    > > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
    > > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
    > >
    > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping the
    > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Tron2003, Oct 29, 2003
    #6
  7. pastypies

    Consultant Guest

    absolutely, i agree

    "Tron2003" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
    > certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel Microsoft
    > comes up short on.
    >
    >
    > "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will

    be
    > > exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of

    the
    > > main reasons the mcngp was formed.
    > >
    > >
    > > "pastypies" <> wrote in message
    > > news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$...
    > > > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will

    to
    > > do
    > > > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope.

    I
    > > > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
    > > >
    > > > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't

    > cut
    > > it
    > > > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
    > > > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good

    > technical
    > > > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question

    > during
    > > > interview.
    > > >
    > > > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves

    > which
    > > > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would

    say
    > > for
    > > > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
    > > > fraudulent one.
    > > >
    > > > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely

    > help
    > > > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no

    certs.
    > > >
    > > > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a

    > year
    > > > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
    > > > material to pass the exams.
    > > >
    > > > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade

    > my
    > > > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be

    > just
    > > > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the

    > above.
    > > >
    > > > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to

    go
    > > from
    > > > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop

    these
    > > exam
    > > > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change

    the
    > > exam
    > > > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in

    part
    > at
    > > > least.
    > > >
    > > > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may

    take
    > a
    > > > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just

    in
    > > > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
    > > >
    > > > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you

    could
    > > > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not

    be
    > > able
    > > > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
    > > > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
    > > >
    > > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping

    the
    > > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Oct 29, 2003
    #7
  8. pastypies

    pastypies Guest

    Tou-shay fellas, I asked for that. I have been pursuing the Cisco track for
    this reason. That said, just because you can be a MS engineer doesn't mean
    you can cut it as a Cisco engineer, time will tell I suppose.

    It seems changing the MS exam format obviously cuts a bit to close to the
    bone for most people, you ether get a slating or just shouted down when it's
    mentioned. Obviously people are happy with the way things are, fair enough
    then.

    "Tron2003" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
    > certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel Microsoft
    > comes up short on.
    >
    >
    > "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will

    be
    > > exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of

    the
    > > main reasons the mcngp was formed.
    > >
    > >
    > > "pastypies" <> wrote in message
    > > news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$...
    > > > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the will

    to
    > > do
    > > > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no hope.

    I
    > > > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
    > > >
    > > > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs can't

    > cut
    > > it
    > > > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
    > > > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good

    > technical
    > > > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question

    > during
    > > > interview.
    > > >
    > > > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves

    > which
    > > > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would

    say
    > > for
    > > > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
    > > > fraudulent one.
    > > >
    > > > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will definitely

    > help
    > > > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no

    certs.
    > > >
    > > > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me a

    > year
    > > > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn the
    > > > material to pass the exams.
    > > >
    > > > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to upgrade

    > my
    > > > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be

    > just
    > > > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the

    > above.
    > > >
    > > > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to

    go
    > > from
    > > > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop

    these
    > > exam
    > > > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change

    the
    > > exam
    > > > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in

    part
    > at
    > > > least.
    > > >
    > > > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may

    take
    > a
    > > > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years, just

    in
    > > > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
    > > >
    > > > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you

    could
    > > > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not

    be
    > > able
    > > > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people just
    > > > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
    > > >
    > > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping

    the
    > > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    pastypies, Oct 29, 2003
    #8
  9. pastypies

    Consultant Guest

    no, we are not happy with the way things are. for these certs to be taken
    seriously, there needs to be significant changes across the board.


    "pastypies" <> wrote in message
    news:3fa031f0$0$28122$...
    > Tou-shay fellas, I asked for that. I have been pursuing the Cisco track

    for
    > this reason. That said, just because you can be a MS engineer doesn't mean
    > you can cut it as a Cisco engineer, time will tell I suppose.
    >
    > It seems changing the MS exam format obviously cuts a bit to close to the
    > bone for most people, you ether get a slating or just shouted down when

    it's
    > mentioned. Obviously people are happy with the way things are, fair enough
    > then.
    >
    > "Tron2003" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > If not happy with MCSE exams why not focus on Cisco or Red Hat
    > > certification. You will find the challenge there that you feel

    Microsoft
    > > comes up short on.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > you are not the only honest person, so don't feel alone. cheaters will

    > be
    > > > exposed, eventually, in the course of their employment. this is one of

    > the
    > > > main reasons the mcngp was formed.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "pastypies" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:3f9fad5e$0$2239$...
    > > > > With people like this 'allitcertkiller.com' crap I am losing the

    will
    > to
    > > > do
    > > > > anymore certifications. For the honest person there is simply no

    hope.
    > I
    > > > > feel like a lone individual taking on a Red Army of cheaters.
    > > > >
    > > > > I've heard all the arguments about people who cheat their certs

    can't
    > > cut
    > > > it
    > > > > in a technical interview. This assumes that you will get a technical
    > > > > interview in the first place. I know of people who have got good

    > > technical
    > > > > IT jobs and have not been asked a single taxing technical question

    > > during
    > > > > interview.
    > > > >
    > > > > Some of the time the interviewers are not that technical themselves

    > > which
    > > > > makes it easy for your cheaters to blag their way to a job. I would

    > say
    > > > for
    > > > > every one person with a real cert there must be ten or twenty with a
    > > > > fraudulent one.
    > > > >
    > > > > People say a cert won't get you job, maybe so, but it will

    definitely
    > > help
    > > > > get you picked for an interview over someone who has less, or no

    > certs.
    > > > >
    > > > > I finished my mcse and mcsa in 2000 about 14 months ago. It took me

    a
    > > year
    > > > > almost to the day to complete. I had to study my butt off to learn

    the
    > > > > material to pass the exams.
    > > > >
    > > > > Now however, I not sure if it is really worth all that work to

    upgrade
    > > my
    > > > > cert to 2003 when in a month or two from now loads of people will be

    > > just
    > > > > downloading or even buying the exam answers from websites like the

    > > above.
    > > > >
    > > > > This kind of practice has just got to stop if the MS certs aren't to

    > go
    > > > from
    > > > > joke status to totally meaningless. Everyone knows you can't stop

    > these
    > > > exam
    > > > > answers from being propagated via the Internet, so MS has to change

    > the
    > > > exam
    > > > > format simple as that and make all of the mcsx exams lab based, in

    > part
    > > at
    > > > > least.
    > > > >
    > > > > Just think MS have the cash to setup testing labs. Although it may

    > take
    > > a
    > > > > while they could have lab based exams in say two or three years,

    just
    > in
    > > > > time for the win 2000 exams to expire.
    > > > >
    > > > > You cannot cheat a lab based exam simple as that. Better still you

    > could
    > > > > have it so say if you fail the lab after three attempts you will not

    > be
    > > > able
    > > > > to take it again for six months or a year. That would stop people

    just
    > > > > bashing away at it until they got a pass.
    > > > >
    > > > > What ever happens they just have to do something and fast. Stopping

    > the
    > > > > braindump sites is like trying to stop P2P file sharing, impossible.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Oct 29, 2003
    #9
  10. Agreed. Unfortunately the reality is that M$ only sees the $. They are
    a business after all. The certs are theirs and so a change would have
    to orginate from there.

    "Consultant" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > no, we are not happy with the way things are. for these certs to be

    taken
    > seriously, there needs to be significant changes across the board.
    >
    >
    > "pastypies" <> wrote in message
    > news:3fa031f0$0$28122$...
    > > Tou-shay fellas, I asked for that. I have been pursuing the Cisco

    track
    > for
    > > this reason. That said, just because you can be a MS engineer

    doesn't mean
    > > you can cut it as a Cisco engineer, time will tell I suppose.
    > >
    > > It seems changing the MS exam format obviously cuts a bit to close

    to the
    > > bone for most people, you ether get a slating or just shouted down

    when
    > it's
    > > mentioned. Obviously people are happy with the way things are,

    fair enough
    > > then.
    > >
     
    Karl \Johnno\ Gustaf, Oct 30, 2003
    #10
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