I AM LEAVING

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Bendt Ten Brock, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. Depending on the outcome of the life of the
    shootin. If it is brought back to life then
    so will I.

    Lets hope Mona does the right thing.
     
    Bendt Ten Brock, Jan 21, 2004
    #1
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  2. Bendt Ten Brock

    Annika1980 Guest

    >From: Bendt Ten Brock

    >Depending on the outcome of the life of the
    >shootin. If it is brought back to life then
    >so will I.
    >
    >Lets hope Mona does the right thing.


    Don't flatter yourself by thinking that the existence of the Shoot-In has
    anything to do with you and your stupid trolling comments. The fact is that
    the participation level HAS dropped of late, whether due to boredom with the
    SI, or maybe simply that everyone is busier doing other things at this time of
    year.
    In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better to have a break of a few weeks
    after the original mandates were completed.
    And maybe now is a good time for that break.

    I am resigning my position as Shoot-In host (aka "Lisa's bee-yatch") mainly
    because of time constraints. I am working my last week at my current job and
    will be starting another job in two weeks. I have decided to live more of my
    life offline instead of online.
     
    Annika1980, Jan 21, 2004
    #2
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  3. Bendt Ten Brock

    DoublEE Guest

    On 21 Jan 2004 01:00:04 -0000, Bendt Ten Brock wrote:

    > Depending on the outcome of the life of the
    > shootin. If it is brought back to life then
    > so will I.
    >
    > Lets hope Mona does the right thing.


    *cough* nolifeloser *cough*
     
    DoublEE, Jan 21, 2004
    #3
  4. Juat an aside. I have been hearing about this shoot in and that... for
    months now. I have yet to hear anything about what it was, and how you
    would participate.

    I know I am not alone in this. So, alive or dead, general information may
    improve the participation.

    Robert Meyers

    "Bendt Ten Brock" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Depending on the outcome of the life of the
    > shootin. If it is brought back to life then
    > so will I.
    >
    > Lets hope Mona does the right thing.
    >
     
    Robert Meyers, Jan 21, 2004
    #4
  5. Bendt Ten Brock

    Dallas Guest

    Bendt Ten Brock wrote:
    > Depending on the outcome of the life of the
    > shootin. If it is brought back to life then
    > so will I.
    >
    > Lets hope Mona does the right thing.
    >


    **** you. May your life be squished painfully short.
     
    Dallas, Jan 21, 2004
    #5
  6. Bendt Ten Brock

    The Dave© Guest

    > Bendt Ten Brock wrote:

    > I AM LEAVING


    Bye.

    --
    The reason New Yorkers are so angry and depressed is because the light
    at the end if the tunnel is New Jersey.
     
    The Dave©, Jan 21, 2004
    #6
  7. Robert Meyers wrote:

    > Juat an aside. I have been hearing about this shoot in and that... for
    > months now. I have yet to hear anything about what it was, and how you
    > would participate.
    >
    > I know I am not alone in this. So, alive or dead, general information may
    > improve the participation.
    >
    > Robert Meyers


    Hmmm... haven't much experience with computers, then? You might try
    clicking on URL links for information. Those are email or internet
    addresses that are underlined, and usually show up in blue. What happens
    is that your browser will open that link and display the addressed page.
    Lot's of information available that way, you know.

    Also, you might be interested to learn that including the post to which
    you've responded below your post is called top posting, and is considered
    a) bad manners, as it forces the reader to scroll down to see context, and
    then back up to continue to read your post, and b) also the sign of a
    clueless (oblivious and uncaring) newbie. I'm sure you'd rather not
    present yourself that way, so investigate your Microsoft Outlook Express
    application and see how to configure it to allow you to post properly. The
    approved way is to trim the post to which you are responding to just what
    supplies context for your remarks, and then insert those remarks such that
    a dialogue is formed. Reads much easier that way, and people are much more
    likely to want to read what you post.

    Further, your remarks are pertinent only to the rec.photo.equipment.35mm
    news group. Cross-posting to rec.photo.digital is meaningless and
    expecting responses there is even more so, as the [SI] does not exist
    there. In sum, Usenet comportment is very similar to what is required in
    real life: make an effort to learn what is proper, appropriate and
    effective, lest you have negative experiences and loss of reputation.

    Incidentally, most readers here are knowledgeable enough of Usenet usage
    that the Shoot-In is generally well understood.

    Good luck, and hope that helps,

    Bill Tallman
    --
    Registered Linux User: #221586
    Mdk-9.0 and IceWM
    Gkrellm still watches over me...
     
    William D. Tallman, Jan 21, 2004
    #7
  8. Bendt Ten Brock

    Tim Lapin Guest

    In article <>,
    "William D. Tallman" <> wrote:

    > Robert Meyers wrote:
    >
    > > Juat an aside. I have been hearing about this shoot in and that... for
    > > months now. I have yet to hear anything about what it was, and how you
    > > would participate.
    > >
    > > I know I am not alone in this. So, alive or dead, general information may
    > > improve the participation.
    > >
    > > Robert Meyers

    >


    [much rudeness snipped]

    >The
    > approved way is to trim the post to which you are responding to just what
    > supplies context for your remarks, and then insert those remarks such that
    > a dialogue is formed. Reads much easier that way, and people are much more
    > likely to want to read what you post.
    >
    > Incidentally, most readers here are knowledgeable enough of Usenet usage
    > that the Shoot-In is generally well understood.
    >
    > Good luck, and hope that helps,
    >
    > Bill Tallman



    And you should learn that the best way to educate new users is to gently
    guide them with kind advice and helpful answers, not hit them over the head
    with a 2x4! A simple link to any Netiquette FAQ link would help. That
    means you, yes you, do a little hunting with your favourite search engine
    and then post the links in the response.

    Incidentally, I've been around Usenet for almost 20 years but only a couple
    of months in rec.photo.digital. So I also don't know what you mean by a
    "Shoot-In" and nor should I be expected to. The best way to answer his
    question is to, well, answer it! By deliberately not answering his question
    you in effect shut him out.

    Even if a given poster might be a troll, the benefit of the doubt must be
    given until proven otherwise.


    To Robert, if you are still here:

    Here are a couple of links to try for learning how best to use news groups:

    http://http4u.com/internet/chat.htm
    and
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/

    I hope this helps.

    --
    Tim Lapin
     
    Tim Lapin, Jan 21, 2004
    #8
  9. Bendt Ten Brock

    Alan D-W Guest

    "William D. Tallman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Hmmm... haven't much experience with computers, then? You might try
    > clicking on URL links for information. Those are email or internet
    > addresses that are underlined, and usually show up in blue. What happens
    > is that your browser will open that link and display the addressed page.
    > Lot's of information available that way, you know.
    >


    You patronising mule.
     
    Alan D-W, Jan 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Shoot In FAQ needed, WAS, Re: I AM LEAVING

    "William D. Tallman" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Hmmm... haven't much experience with computers, then? You might try
    > clicking on URL links for information. Those are email or internet
    > addresses that are underlined, and usually show up in blue. What happens
    > is that your browser will open that link and display the addressed page.
    > Lot's of information available that way, you know.


    Quite a bit actually. However whenever I have searched I have not come up
    with anything pertinant. I spoke to another user who had also had not seen
    anything pertinant in the last four months at least to rules for setting up
    etc. to join. Now, I have more net expirence than most. However, if I have
    not seen anything, then I can be sure that countless others had not either.
    As such I figured that I should post that as an aside to attempt to get
    someone to post the pertinant information. Not a "this is what you look for
    in a post". There is no way some of the people I have spoken with in the
    past months would even know to look for that... and I had pointed a few
    people to this news group. I was forced to explain what a Usenet group was.
    As such, there needed to be (and kinda still needs to be) an actual faq
    posted on the Shoot In. Instead of just links. So people can get the
    information to go per say (d/l news and read later).

    > Also, you might be interested to learn that including the post to which
    > you've responded below your post is called top posting, and is considered
    > a) bad manners, as it forces the reader to scroll down to see context, and
    > then back up to continue to read your post, and b) also the sign of a
    > clueless (oblivious and uncaring) newbie.


    Wow. What a change in view. For over a decade it was considered bad
    manners to post at the bottom. I have been using fido.net style posting for
    forever. Note that tradditionaly when top posting, I will trim a long post
    so people will always get what I am refering to in the same screen.
    Especially with the way most are leading to run on posts. This was always
    considered rude (did you ever get a message about how much it costs to send
    your post?). Early usenet was the same. You were on a telnet connection
    and frequently had drops. You posted to the top so your message would more
    likely get through.

    > Further, your remarks are pertinent only to the rec.photo.equipment.35mm
    > news group. Cross-posting to rec.photo.digital is meaningless and
    > expecting responses there is even more so, as the [SI] does not exist
    > there. In sum, Usenet comportment is very similar to what is required in
    > real life: make an effort to learn what is proper, appropriate and
    > effective, lest you have negative experiences and loss of reputation.


    Now here I made a blatent mistake. I had not noted the crosspost and did a
    simple reply. Apologies to anyone irritated by that error.

    > Incidentally, most readers here are knowledgeable enough of Usenet usage
    > that the Shoot-In is generally well understood.


    Bill, in all truth when the view is taken that most users know how to do
    something, you quite frequently doom those too afraid to ask to never
    knowing. I deal in tech support every day (I own a very small ISP). In the
    end I have had so many problems with customer service assuming things that
    you would not believe users did not understand. In general I figure someone
    who may be able to find out (given time), should really just ask to get
    peoples attention to the issue at hand. Also note, that the other user who
    had not seen anything on how to participate in the Shoot IN has been on
    Usenet since the early nineties (pre-web).

    I appreciate your reply. I just hope someone will take the time to actually
    post a faq on it for people to get involved that may have an interest and
    not the knowledge to get involved.

    Robert Meyers
     
    Robert Meyers, Jan 22, 2004
    #10
  11. Bendt Ten Brock

    T C Bulmer Guest

    > Hmmm... haven't much experience with computers, then? You might try
    > clicking on URL links for information. Those are email or internet
    > addresses that are underlined, and usually show up in blue. What happens
    > is that your browser will open that link and display the addressed page.
    > Lot's of information available that way, you know.
    >
    > Also, you might be interested to learn that including the post to which
    > you've responded below your post is called top posting, and is considered
    > a) bad manners, as it forces the reader to scroll down to see context, and
    > then back up to continue to read your post, and b) also the sign of a
    > clueless (oblivious and uncaring) newbie. I'm sure you'd rather not
    > present yourself that way, so investigate your Microsoft Outlook Express
    > application and see how to configure it to allow you to post properly.

    The
    > approved way is to trim the post to which you are responding to just what
    > supplies context for your remarks, and then insert those remarks such that
    > a dialogue is formed. Reads much easier that way, and people are much

    more
    > likely to want to read what you post.
    >
    > Further, your remarks are pertinent only to the rec.photo.equipment.35mm
    > news group. Cross-posting to rec.photo.digital is meaningless and
    > expecting responses there is even more so, as the [SI] does not exist
    > there. In sum, Usenet comportment is very similar to what is required in
    > real life: make an effort to learn what is proper, appropriate and
    > effective, lest you have negative experiences and loss of reputation.
    >
    > Incidentally, most readers here are knowledgeable enough of Usenet usage
    > that the Shoot-In is generally well understood.
    >
    > Good luck, and hope that helps,
    >
    > Bill Tallman


    I would just like to let Mr William D Tallman know, that although you may
    have had the best of intentions, you come across as a pompous ass in your
    responses. People learn and people make mistakes. Did you know "everything"
    about Usenet when you first started? No? Well then, give the "newbies" a
    break. We learn by the help of others not ridicule. Just be nice man.
     
    T C Bulmer, Jan 22, 2004
    #11
  12. Re: Shoot In FAQ needed, WAS, Re: I AM LEAVING

    Please disregard the preceeding post in this forum. Accidentally posted
    here.
     
    Robert Meyers, Jan 22, 2004
    #12
  13. "Tim Lapin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > To Robert, if you are still here:
    >
    > Here are a couple of links to try for learning how best to use news

    groups:
    >
    > http://http4u.com/internet/chat.htm
    > and
    > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1/
    >
    > I hope this helps.



    Tim,

    Much appreciated. I seriously am supprosed how much things have change in
    ettiquete expected.

    In truth though I am starting to feel these are the basic styles (not yours)
    of responses you get wehn using Usenet. It has been degrading for years.

    Hell, so far one of the best posters on rec.photo.equipment.35mm spends much
    of his posting on "turn this guy in for spam"... which worrys new users as
    to wether or not they are going to screw up and get messed up for it. Even
    though they would need real dumb luck to do so.

    Oh, and just for the record. No one has ever answered the question asked on
    either group.

    Robert Meyers
     
    Robert Meyers, Jan 22, 2004
    #13
  14. Bendt Ten Brock

    Mark Johnson Guest

    Re: Top posting

    Mark Herring <> wrote:

    >I actually PREFER to read top-posted replies.


    But you have to explain what is meant by - top posting.

    It means that the quoted material from the previous message(s) follows
    the single sentence or paragraph reply.

    The problem with that approach is that it is often unhelpful and
    cryptic. Plus the context must be discovered after the reply that is
    given. And that's not normally how people converse. In addition, if
    one wants to address numerous points in a message, one has to address
    them in that context, at any rate, quoting the bit from the previous
    message that makes the point or answers the question. 'Top posting' is
    really something that should be discouraged, and cannot even be
    sustained for more than a few lines, else and just completely lose all
    context.


    >Interesting observation: The two newsreaders I use (Agent and
    >Outlook) both defaut to top-posting. In Agent, I have not found a way
    >to change this.


    No it doesn't. I've always used either Free Agent or Agent. And I've
    never been tempted to 'top post'.
     
    Mark Johnson, Jan 22, 2004
    #14
  15. Bendt Ten Brock

    Xiaoding Guest

    "Also, you might be interested to learn that including the post to
    which
    you've responded below your post is called top posting, and is
    considered
    a) bad manners, as it forces the reader to scroll down to see context,
    and
    then back up to continue to read your post, and b) also the sign of a
    clueless (oblivious and uncaring) newbie. I'm sure you'd rather not
    present yourself that way, so investigate your Microsoft Outlook
    Express
    application and see how to configure it to allow you to post properly.
    The
    approved way is to trim the post to which you are responding to just
    what
    supplies context for your remarks, and then insert those remarks such
    that
    a dialogue is formed. Reads much easier that way, and people are much
    more
    likely to want to read what you post."

    That is just not true. Some people top post, some do not, there is no
    "proper" way. I do both, depending. Please inform your friends in
    the usenet police.
     
    Xiaoding, Jan 22, 2004
    #15
  16. In article <>, Xiaoding
    <> writes
    >"Also, you might be interested to learn that including the post to
    >which
    >you've responded below your post is called top posting, and is
    >considered
    >a) bad manners, as it forces the reader to scroll down to see context,


    [snip]
    >
    >That is just not true. Some people top post, some do not, there is no
    >"proper" way. I do both, depending. Please inform your friends in
    >the usenet police.


    I agree there is a variation in people's views. However, there is no
    doubt that top posting makes it *much* harder to follow complex
    discussions. I always think slightly less of people who top post on a
    complex point, believing that either (a) they use Outlook Express and
    don't know how/can't be bothered to change its crappy default settings,
    or (b) they just can't be bothered to waste a couple of seconds of their
    own time to post correctly and instead waste that of hundreds of
    readers.

    With a very simple comment on a vary long post I find top posting a
    little more rational - you do not then have to scroll through several
    screens to find a single throwaway line. But I do this *very* rarely.

    Of course, some people only have crass comments to make, in which case
    putting them at the top enables one to ignore them a little bit
    quicker...
    --
    David Littlewood
     
    David Littlewood, Jan 22, 2004
    #16
  17. Bendt Ten Brock

    Mark Herring Guest

    Top posting

    On 22 Jan 2004 05:47:23 -0800, (Xiaoding)
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >That is just not true. Some people top post, some do not, there is no
    >"proper" way. I do both, depending. Please inform your friends in
    >the usenet police.


    I actually PREFER to read top-posted replies. If I am following
    something, the first thing I want ot see is the most recent additions.

    What I think is bad form is to repeat all the previous words in the
    thread. It is better to snip it down to just the point(s) you are
    responding to.

    Interesting observation: The two newsreaders I use (Agent and
    Outlook) both defaut to top-posting. In Agent, I have not found a way
    to change this.
    **************************
    Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
    Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
     
    Mark Herring, Jan 22, 2004
    #17
  18. Bendt Ten Brock

    The Wogster Guest

    Re: Top posting

    On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 07:54:21 -0800, Mark Herring wrote:

    > I actually PREFER to read top-posted replies. If I am following
    > something, the first thing I want ot see is the most recent additions.


    I agree top posting is easier to read especially when....

    >
    > What I think is bad form is to repeat all the previous words in the
    > thread. It is better to snip it down to just the point(s) you are
    > responding to.
    >


    people have this nasty habit of keeping every line ever said on the topic,
    including all of the headers and footers to every message ever stated on
    the topic.

    If people could say everything in a screen of message and include half a
    screen of context, then it really doesn't matter if it's top or bottom
    posted.....

    W
     
    The Wogster, Jan 22, 2004
    #18
  19. Bendt Ten Brock

    George Guest

    Re: Top posting

    I agree that top posts are much easier to follow (assuming that you have a
    newsreader that is capable of displaying threads and you're following a
    thread). If you aren't following a thread, it is as if you just wandered
    over to a conversation at a cocktail party and I really don't see it as my
    responsibility to bring you up to speed (at least without you asking!).

    "Mark Herring" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > I actually PREFER to read top-posted replies. If I am following
    > something, the first thing I want ot see is the most recent additions.
    >
    > What I think is bad form is to repeat all the previous words in the
    > thread. It is better to snip it down to just the point(s) you are
    > responding to.
    >
    > Interesting observation: The two newsreaders I use (Agent and
    > Outlook) both defaut to top-posting. In Agent, I have not found a way
    > to change this.
    > **************************
    > Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
    > Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
    >
     
    George, Jan 22, 2004
    #19
  20. Re: Top posting

    On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:32:47 -0500, "George" <>
    wrote:

    >I agree that top posts are much easier to follow (assuming that you have a
    >newsreader that is capable of displaying threads and you're following a
    >thread). If you aren't following a thread, it is as if you just wandered


    You need to remember that not all information is a thread will be
    consecutive. It may and it may not. Quite often posts are out of
    order. A good many times I've seen several posts answering a post
    that has not shown up on my server yet.

    So, if the poster does not include enough of the previous post there
    is no way of knowing to which post he/she was replying.

    >over to a conversation at a cocktail party and I really don't see it as my
    >responsibility to bring you up to speed (at least without you asking!).


    You may end up in that position even when following a thread.

    >
    >"Mark Herring" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>
    >> I actually PREFER to read top-posted replies. If I am following
    >> something, the first thing I want ot see is the most recent additions.


    I don't care whether it's top, bottom, or interspersed as long as I
    know who said what. Often it doesn't matter.
    OTOH for some blind readers in some groups the requirement is for top
    posting.

    >>
    >> What I think is bad form is to repeat all the previous words in the
    >> thread. It is better to snip it down to just the point(s) you are
    >> responding to.
    >>
    >> Interesting observation: The two newsreaders I use (Agent and
    >> Outlook) both defaut to top-posting. In Agent, I have not found a way
    >> to change this.


    They default to starting with the cursor at the top. That allows you
    to scroll down and select which parts to which you wish to respond.

    What I dislike is "some" readers post a delimiter that tells where the
    sig line comes. IF some one edits and misses the delimiter my reader
    (Full version of Agent) cuts all that off when I go to reply which
    requires me to open a second window to read what had gone before.

    Also when snipping out extra text, I find that some appear to treat
    the last sender id at the top differently.

    Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
    (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
    www.rogerhalstead.com

    >> **************************
    >> Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
    >> Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
    >>

    >
     
    Roger Halstead, Jan 22, 2004
    #20
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