HP and India

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by steve, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. steve

    steve Guest

    My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.

    The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L had
    to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter, as
    the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.

    She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient for
    HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer still
    doesn't work.

    --
    defenestrate: The act of throwing Windows out the window and replacing it on
    your PC with some other operating system.
    steve, Oct 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. steve

    sal Guest

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:

    >
    >My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    >recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    >
    >The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    >phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L had
    >to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter, as
    >the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    >
    >She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient for
    >HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer still
    >doesn't work.



    They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    them is a little deaf.
    sal, Oct 23, 2003
    #2
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  3. steve

    MarkH Guest

    sal <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    >>recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    >>
    >>The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    >>phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L
    >>had to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by
    >>letter, as the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    >>
    >>She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient
    >>for HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the
    >>printer still doesn't work.

    >
    >
    > They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    > to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    > have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    > them is a little deaf.


    In the last year? The HP call centre has not been in NZ for several years.
    If you called their 0800 a year ago you would probably have heard an Aussie
    accent.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
    MarkH, Oct 23, 2003
    #3
  4. steve

    Guest

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:25:12 +1300, sal <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    >>recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    >>
    >>The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    >>phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L had
    >>to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter, as
    >>the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    >>
    >>She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient for
    >>HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer still
    >>doesn't work.

    >
    >
    >They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    >to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    >have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    >them is a little deaf.



    I've had to call Dell several times this year because of hard drive
    failures etc.
    After the first time one was replaced, I had to call so the tech could
    go through the reloading program process with me - she was located in
    Texas.

    Since then, all my calls to Dell were answered in India and I would
    agree with Steve and you, the lingo problems are often huge.

    I need to call J C Penney's customer service a while back on two
    occasions - they used to be located in the US. Now they are located
    in India. I closed my account immediately I realised that they had
    access to every personal detail including my social security no and
    could easily sell off my details/id theft.



    Blame India for that jobless recovery by Alan Kohler
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/01/1064988273910.html

    October 2, 2003 American Express has its fraud analytics department
    based in India - 60 PhDs sit in a room watching credit card use
    patterns in America, looking for fraud.

    JP Morgan has a team of research analysts in Mumbai; another
    investment bank has a team of PhDs in Moscow doing global quantitative
    analysis; McKinsey has a research centre of 130 MBAs just outside
    Delhi.

    General Electric is hiring 2000 people a month in India; HSBC now does
    all its mortgage processing there; Ford employs 1000 design engineers
    in India.

    Neptune Orient Lines has centralised its global accounts receivable,
    accounts payable and general ledger operations in Shanghai; Motorola
    has its R&D centre in Russia, where it employs rocket scientists to
    design mobile phones.

    Meanwhile, back in Washington, American politicians are becoming
    obsessed with the jobless recovery in the US.

    As Steve Roach of Morgan Stanley reported this week, 21 months into
    the economic recovery that began in November 2001, US employment has
    fallen 1.2 million. Relative to the average pick-up in employment at
    this point of the cycle, that represents a job shortfall of 4.2
    million.

    This is beginning to overtake security as the number one political
    issue in the US, and much of the focus is on China. A rise in
    protectionist sentiment is showing up in a new bill proposing an
    across-the-board tariff on Chinese goods unless China floats/revalues
    the yuan, and yesterday Treasury Secretary John Snow promised to keep
    up the pressure on the Chinese to float the currency.

    There's no doubt China is taking a leaf from Japan's book and using
    the currency to improve export competitiveness, but there's much more
    to it than that. There's India, and services outsourcing too - also
    known as "offshoring", or "best-shoring" among the real jargon hounds.

    Employment in the US services sector has remained unchanged over the
    past 21 months as the economy has recovered; usually the services
    industry headcount has grown 5 per cent by this stage of the cycle.
    The employment growth is happening in India instead.

    It is mostly a labour cost arbitrage play. An Indian PhD costs less
    than $US10,000 a year - 80 per cent below the starting salary of a
    similarly qualified person in the US. Indian universities are
    producing 2 million graduates a year, all of whom can speak perfect
    English.

    The other side of this coin is the western corporate focus on
    headcount as a management tool. It's not just that companies contain
    costs through blunt headcount restrictions - although that's a big
    part of it. It is also the use of headcount to allocate overheads
    through the group.

    I spoke to two Australian investment bankers this week - heads of
    Australian branches of big Wall Street firms - who are being driven
    mad by overhead allocation. Every time they hire someone, the person's
    salary is loaded up with a corporate head office allocation -
    including the cost of the corporate jets parked at La Guardia - which
    is often greater than the salary.

    What's more, when you are at the end of the food chain - like
    Australia, say, or Des Moines, Iowa - you end up copping a
    disproportionate share of the head office overheads because those
    above you have kept their share to a minimum before passing the
    parcel.

    But supply arrangements with other organisations - say an Indian call
    centre contract with Accenture - don't attract any overhead allocation
    at all.

    The bottom line is that the American corporate system with its focus
    on headcount, also used by most Australian firms, is directly leading
    to the so-called "jobless recovery". On the other hand, executives and
    directors have a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to lower
    costs where possible, and there is a snowballing effect taking place
    as companies find their competitors are getting big cost savings by
    shifting the call centres to India.

    The system of offshoring now gathering unstoppable momentum has been
    made possible in the past few years by high-bandwidth
    telecommunications, which allows processing centres in low-cost
    countries to communicate seamlessly, in real time, with head office.

    Although firms like GE, Ford and the US banks are leading the trend in
    the US, and the consultants like McKinsey, Accenture and
    PricewaterhouseCoopers are pushing it, offshoring is slow to take off
    in Australia.

    There is great sensitivity here about how the unions and politicians
    will react if call centres and data processing are moved offshore too
    quickly. Recently, a few hundred unionists stopped traffic outside
    Telstra's Melbourne headquarters protesting about its IT processing
    contract with Indian firm Infosys.

    This Australian reluctance so far is why this country's economic
    recovery is so far not a jobless one - like America's is.

    But protests or not, Australian firms will be forced to catch up:
    drudge work, whether making shirts or data processing, is moving to
    cheap-labour countries.

    Australia will become a nation of salespeople, waiters and - one
    sincerely hopes - journalists. The Mumbai Morning Herald, anyone?

    ####
    , Oct 23, 2003
    #4
  5. steve

    Rupert Guest

    Dell is based in Singapore.

    However, I am somewhat surprised that there were language problems, the
    contact centre agents in most Indian contact centres go through a very
    rigourous accent training program.

    I recently spent 6 weeks in a large mumbai based contact centre implementing
    and training them in a workforce management solution, during the training
    phase of the implementation I would regularly hear new agents chanting out
    loud words in an American accent from an adjacent training room - was very
    comical, though the people I was training at the time considered it to be a
    very serious matter.



    "sal" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    > >recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    > >
    > >The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    > >phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L had
    > >to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter, as
    > >the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    > >
    > >She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient for
    > >HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer

    still
    > >doesn't work.

    >
    >
    > They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    > to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    > have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    > them is a little deaf.
    Rupert, Oct 23, 2003
    #5
  6. "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:1ZDlb.2532$...
    >
    > My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    > recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    >
    > The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    > phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L had
    > to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter, as
    > the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    >
    > She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient for
    > HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer

    still
    > doesn't work.


    Interesting... It's usual for these call centres in India to have a
    rigourous training, including making sure the operators have the proper
    accent (like an Australian accent for calls from Aust, a California accent
    for calls from the West Coast, and so on)...

    --
    Mauricio Freitas
    Handhelds, mobile: http://www.geekzone.co.nz
    Bluetooth guides: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=449
    Mauricio Freitas, Oct 23, 2003
    #6
  7. steve

    Robert Guest

    Er - Dell Asia Pacific is based in Penang, Malaysia.
    The main help desk is in India but they still have help desks in Malaysia &
    Sydney (Gold support).

    Yes - accent is a problem.

    "Rupert" <> wrote in message
    news:bn7mdu$f1s$...
    > Dell is based in Singapore.
    >
    > However, I am somewhat surprised that there were language problems, the
    > contact centre agents in most Indian contact centres go through a very
    > rigourous accent training program.
    >
    > I recently spent 6 weeks in a large mumbai based contact centre

    implementing
    > and training them in a workforce management solution, during the training
    > phase of the implementation I would regularly hear new agents chanting out
    > loud words in an American accent from an adjacent training room - was very
    > comical, though the people I was training at the time considered it to be

    a
    > very serious matter.
    >
    >
    >
    > "sal" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    > > >recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    > > >
    > > >The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    > > >phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L

    had
    > > >to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter,

    as
    > > >the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    > > >
    > > >She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient

    for
    > > >HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer

    > still
    > > >doesn't work.

    > >
    > >
    > > They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    > > to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    > > have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    > > them is a little deaf.

    >
    >
    Robert, Oct 23, 2003
    #7
  8. steve

    Rich Guest

    "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    news:bn7923$4ia$...
    > sal <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >>My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    > >>recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    > >>
    > >>The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    > >>phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L
    > >>had to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by
    > >>letter, as the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    > >>
    > >>She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient
    > >>for HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the
    > >>printer still doesn't work.

    > >
    > >
    > > They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    > > to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    > > have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    > > them is a little deaf.

    >
    > In the last year? The HP call centre has not been in NZ for several

    years.
    > If you called their 0800 a year ago you would probably have heard an

    Aussie
    > accent.

    The HP helpdesk, for home products at least, was re-routed to India about 3
    weeks ago. Before this it was located in Auckland. A bit of a shame, as some
    of the people there were genuinely helpful and a few even recognised my
    voice, due to the number of calls I made on behalf of customers.
    Rich, Oct 23, 2003
    #8
  9. steve

    JedMeister Guest

    Ha ha good story...get used to it, many big corporates are moving IT/Call
    centers to 3rd world countries.

    Another issue is Indias poor infrastructure ....voice connections are often
    crap, power outages are frequent.

    The fruits of globalisation!!!!


    "steve" <> wrote in message
    news:1ZDlb.2532$...
    >
    > My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    > recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    >
    > The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    > phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L had
    > to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter, as
    > the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    >
    > She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient for
    > HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer

    still
    > doesn't work.
    >
    > --
    > defenestrate: The act of throwing Windows out the window and replacing it

    on
    > your PC with some other operating system.
    JedMeister, Oct 23, 2003
    #9
  10. steve

    Guest

    On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:42:31 +1300, "Mauricio Freitas"
    <> wrote:
    [msge snipped]

    >Interesting... It's usual for these call centres in India to have a
    >rigourous training, including making sure the operators have the proper
    >accent (like an Australian accent for calls from Aust, a California accent
    >for calls from the West Coast, and so on)...


    What is a 'California accent'?
    CA is such a diverse state that there is no one accent that prevails.
    Cath
    , Oct 23, 2003
    #10
  11. steve

    Rupert Guest

    well that surprises me as Dell is another customer of mine and they are
    based in Singapore.

    "Robert" <> wrote in message
    news:TxLlb.2668$...
    > Er - Dell Asia Pacific is based in Penang, Malaysia.
    > The main help desk is in India but they still have help desks in Malaysia

    &
    > Sydney (Gold support).
    >
    > Yes - accent is a problem.
    >
    > "Rupert" <> wrote in message
    > news:bn7mdu$f1s$...
    > > Dell is based in Singapore.
    > >
    > > However, I am somewhat surprised that there were language problems, the
    > > contact centre agents in most Indian contact centres go through a very
    > > rigourous accent training program.
    > >
    > > I recently spent 6 weeks in a large mumbai based contact centre

    > implementing
    > > and training them in a workforce management solution, during the

    training
    > > phase of the implementation I would regularly hear new agents chanting

    out
    > > loud words in an American accent from an adjacent training room - was

    very
    > > comical, though the people I was training at the time considered it to

    be
    > a
    > > very serious matter.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "sal" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support

    line
    > > > >recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    > > > >
    > > > >The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    > > > >phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L

    > had
    > > > >to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by

    letter,
    > as
    > > > >the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    > > > >
    > > > >She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient

    > for
    > > > >HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the

    printer
    > > still
    > > > >doesn't work.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    > > > to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    > > > have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    > > > them is a little deaf.

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Rupert, Oct 23, 2003
    #11
  12. steve

    Rupert Guest

    thats not the case at all, of all the Indian outsourced contact centres I
    have worked in they have had extremely good infrastructure - most don't rely
    at all on the local local loop telephone network but have a dedicated link
    (satellite) to a US service provider ( or parent company ) that does both
    internet and voice.

    While I was at one site for over 6 weeks I never experienced a power outage
    or case of phone lines going down, the only incident was a bomb threat which
    cleared the contact centre for a couple of hours.

    All contact centres I have visited have had excellent working conditions,
    with a free cafeteria, internet terminals for agents to use on breaks and
    they provided transport for agents to and from work.

    "JedMeister" <> wrote in message
    news:87Olb.187879$...
    > Ha ha good story...get used to it, many big corporates are moving IT/Call
    > centers to 3rd world countries.
    >
    > Another issue is Indias poor infrastructure ....voice connections are

    often
    > crap, power outages are frequent.
    >
    > The fruits of globalisation!!!!
    >
    >
    Rupert, Oct 23, 2003
    #12
  13. steve

    pete Guest

    > > > "sal" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support

    > line
    > > > > >recently because they had problems with a laser printer not

    working.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    > > > > >phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my

    S-in-L
    > > had
    > > > > >to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by

    > letter,
    > > as
    > > > > >the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and

    efficient
    > > for
    > > > > >HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the

    > printer
    > > > still
    > > > > >doesn't work.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it

    used
    > > > > to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my

    friends
    > > > > have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    > > > > them is a little deaf.


    When HPs call centre was in Aussie they often had huge problems with maori
    place names (the warranty calls are sent to my employer for resolution).
    Often
    there was some very lateral thinking to work out what address they were
    trying to
    describe. Going to be interesting to see how the Indians handle it.
    pete, Oct 24, 2003
    #13
  14. steve

    Warwick Guest

    On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 22:30:02 -0500,
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:25:12 +1300, sal <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:59:09 +1300, steve <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>My sister-in-law in Wellington called the Hewlett-Packard support line
    >>>recently because they had problems with a laser printer not working.
    >>>
    >>>The call was answered in India. The person at the Indian end of the
    >>>phone had considerable difficulty with the Kiwi accent and my S-in-L had
    >>>to spell out a lot of what she was trying to convey, letter by letter, as
    >>>the details were recorded in the problem tracking system.
    >>>
    >>>She was on the phone for over two hours. No doubt cheap and efficient for
    >>>HP(!).....but a horrendous waste of time for S-in-L....and the printer still
    >>>doesn't work.

    >>
    >>
    >>They must have chnaged their call centre in the last year, as it used
    >>to be in NZ. Dell also contract out to india, and a few of my friends
    >>have had huge problems communicating with them, especially as one of
    >>them is a little deaf.

    >
    >
    >I've had to call Dell several times this year because of hard drive
    >failures etc.
    >After the first time one was replaced, I had to call so the tech could
    >go through the reloading program process with me - she was located in
    >Texas.
    >
    >Since then, all my calls to Dell were answered in India and I would
    >agree with Steve and you, the lingo problems are often huge.
    >
    >I need to call J C Penney's customer service a while back on two
    >occasions - they used to be located in the US. Now they are located
    >in India. I closed my account immediately I realised that they had
    >access to every personal detail including my social security no and
    >could easily sell off my details/id theft.
    >

    <big snip>

    Back in June of this year I was given a Compaq Presario wich was no
    longer working, if I could fix it I could have it.

    I wound up at a US based centre for Compaq help.

    It was enourmously useful - no telephone calls at all. It is based on
    a forum (like a ng) and chat.

    Chat is how we ran help desk when I sysoped on the GamesGrid as well
    and it has some advantages over voice.

    Accent is obviously not an issue, and a permanant record of what was
    said is created automatically. Usefull for the sysops administratoin,
    useful for the client to refer back to as they work thru the problem.
    If you are on a dial up account you do not have to go offline or spend
    money on telephone calls either.

    At the end of a chat with a compaq engineer they automatically
    forwarded a feedback email with the chat enclosed for the client to
    comment on the engineers performance.

    I have even successfully diagnosed and solved minor problems with non
    english speakers using Babel fish to translate short blocks of text
    for the chat.

    This may seem only relevant from the perspective of comparing
    different types of help desk - however I thought HP owned Comaq?

    cheers
    Warwick
    Warwick, Oct 24, 2003
    #14
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    PASSAGE TO INDIA, Jul 15, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
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    799
    Mellowed
    Jul 16, 2003
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