How to tell if timing chain is broke

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by news-server, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. news-server

    news-server Guest

    I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
     
    news-server, Nov 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. news-server

    news-server Guest

    Oops, wrong newsgroup, but if any of you computer techs
    knows anything about a timing chain, please respond.

    "news-server" <> wrote in message
    news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com...
    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    > Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    > timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    > determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >
    >
     
    news-server, Nov 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. news-server

    Art Guest

    Does it have a distributor? If so, pop the top, turn the starter and see if
    the rotor turns. If not, it's broken inside.

    Seems unlikely that your timing drive would break at 83k, especially if it's
    a chain.


    "news-server" <> wrote in message
    news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com...
    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    > Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    > timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    > determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >
    >
     
    Art, Nov 16, 2006
    #3
  4. news-server

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:37:40 +0000, news-server Has Frothed:

    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    > Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    > timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    > determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.


    If it quit while it was running and didn't scatter the top end I would
    look elsewhere. If it turns over and doesn't make a lot of mechanical
    racket, the same advice. If my memory serves, most 4 banger GM motors from
    the 90's on are "interference" motors meaning if the valve train is out of
    time with the crank you'll send the valves into the tops of the pistons.
    If you crank your motor and it sounds "normal" other than not firing, I'd
    look somewhere besides the timing "belt". Oh and if it isn't a timing
    problem, that belt needs changed before you suffer a catastrophic failure.


    --
    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

    COOSN-266-06-25794
     
    Meat Plow, Nov 16, 2006
    #4
  5. news-server

    Art Guest

    I've seen it stated many times here, nothing is off-topic. This is not just
    a computer group.

    Perfectly legit question.


    "news-server" <> wrote in message
    news:O5%6h.79$-kc.rr.com...
    > Oops, wrong newsgroup, but if any of you computer techs
    > knows anything about a timing chain, please respond.
    >
    > "news-server" <> wrote in message
    > news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com...
    >> I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >> It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    >> later.
    >> Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    >> timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >> determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >> Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Art, Nov 16, 2006
    #5
  6. news-server

    George Guest

    news-server wrote:
    :: I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    :: It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    :: later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I
    :: suspect the
    :: timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    :: determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    :: Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.

    Make sure the fuel pump is working. Its in the gas tank and they are known
    to just quit. Fuses first then the relay.
     
    George, Nov 16, 2006
    #6
  7. news-server

    news-server Guest

    Thanks for the the input everyone, I think I got the newsgroup
    right after all, I made the same posting to alt.autos.gm and
    have yet to receive a reply.



    "news-server" <> wrote in message
    news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com...
    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    > Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    > timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    > determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >
    >
     
    news-server, Nov 16, 2006
    #7
  8. news-server

    ellis_jay Guest

    news-server wrote:
    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    > later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect
    > the
    > timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    > determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.


    What does the engine warning lite do? Does it not stay on? Why do you
    suspect the timing belt?

    If you are handy, buy yourself a Haynes manual for your car. Then check the
    engine codes with a hand held scanner. Those don't cost a hell of a lot and
    are easy to use once you identify your testing pigtail or test circuit. My
    guess would be your air flow vane is out of whack due to a fault or cracks
    in the rubber, or a control module on the distributor. Or the pick-up in
    coil inside your distributor-which can be replaced/rebuilt by yourself. Or
    your fuel pump relay is bad or your fuel pump itself. The Haynes manual
    will instruct you on how to do all these procedures. Some cars will act
    like yours if the seal in the gas tank lid is bad.

    --

    Let the unseen day be. Today is more than enough.

    ___Sador the carpenter to Turin
    Tolkien, The Unfinished Tales

    Ellis_Jay
     
    ellis_jay, Nov 16, 2006
    #8
  9. news-server

    news-server Guest

    "ellis_jay" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > news-server wrote:
    >> I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >> It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    >> later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect
    >> the
    >> timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >> determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >> Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.

    >
    > What does the engine warning lite do? Does it not stay on? Why do you
    > suspect the timing belt?
    >
    > If you are handy, buy yourself a Haynes manual for your car. Then check
    > the
    > engine codes with a hand held scanner. Those don't cost a hell of a lot
    > and
    > are easy to use once you identify your testing pigtail or test circuit.
    > My
    > guess would be your air flow vane is out of whack due to a fault or cracks
    > in the rubber, or a control module on the distributor. Or the pick-up in
    > coil inside your distributor-which can be replaced/rebuilt by yourself.
    > Or
    > your fuel pump relay is bad or your fuel pump itself. The Haynes manual
    > will instruct you on how to do all these procedures. Some cars will act
    > like yours if the seal in the gas tank lid is bad.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Let the unseen day be. Today is more than enough.
    >
    > ___Sador the carpenter to Turin
    > Tolkien, The Unfinished Tales
    >
    > Ellis_Jay
    >

    Thanks, I just thought of the timing belt because it happed so suddenly,
    without
    any advanced warning.
     
    news-server, Nov 16, 2006
    #9
  10. news-server

    Fred Guest

    "news-server" <> wrote in message
    news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com...
    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    > Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    > timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    > determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >
    >


    Almost certainly not the timing chain. Tey normally break while moter is
    running - not just cranking over. Fuel or ignition most likely.
     
    Fred, Nov 16, 2006
    #10
  11. news-server

    Fred37 Guest

    I had the exact same thing happen and it was the timing belt. I
    pulled into a parking spot, turned off the car and did my errands.
    When I came back it would crank just great but never fire.
    Fred

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:37:40 GMT, "news-server" <>
    wrote:

    >I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    >Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    >timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >
     
    Fred37, Nov 16, 2006
    #11
  12. news-server

    ellis_jay Guest

    news-server wrote:
    > "ellis_jay" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> news-server wrote:
    >>> I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >>> It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    >>> later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I
    >>> suspect the
    >>> timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >>> determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >>> Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.

    >>
    >> What does the engine warning lite do? Does it not stay on? Why do
    >> you suspect the timing belt?
    >>
    >> If you are handy, buy yourself a Haynes manual for your car. Then
    >> check the
    >> engine codes with a hand held scanner. Those don't cost a hell of a
    >> lot and
    >> are easy to use once you identify your testing pigtail or test
    >> circuit. My
    >> guess would be your air flow vane is out of whack due to a fault or
    >> cracks in the rubber, or a control module on the distributor. Or
    >> the pick-up in coil inside your distributor-which can be
    >> replaced/rebuilt by yourself. Or
    >> your fuel pump relay is bad or your fuel pump itself. The Haynes
    >> manual will instruct you on how to do all these procedures. Some
    >> cars will act like yours if the seal in the gas tank lid is bad.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> Let the unseen day be. Today is more than enough.
    >>
    >> ___Sador the carpenter to Turin
    >> Tolkien, The Unfinished Tales
    >>
    >> Ellis_Jay
    >>

    > Thanks, I just thought of the timing belt because it happed so
    > suddenly, without
    > any advanced warning.


    Control modules do that alot. As does coils, distributors and their innards.
    Definitely sounds electrical to me.

    --

    Let the unseen day be. Today is more than enough.

    ___Sador the carpenter to Turin
    Tolkien, The Unfinished Tales

    Ellis_Jay
     
    ellis_jay, Nov 16, 2006
    #12
  13. news-server

    ellis_jay Guest

    news-server wrote:
    > "ellis_jay" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> news-server wrote:
    >>> I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >>> It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    >>> later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I
    >>> suspect the
    >>> timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >>> determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >>> Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.

    >>
    >> What does the engine warning lite do? Does it not stay on? Why do
    >> you suspect the timing belt?
    >>
    >> If you are handy, buy yourself a Haynes manual for your car. Then
    >> check the
    >> engine codes with a hand held scanner. Those don't cost a hell of a
    >> lot and
    >> are easy to use once you identify your testing pigtail or test
    >> circuit. My
    >> guess would be your air flow vane is out of whack due to a fault or
    >> cracks in the rubber, or a control module on the distributor. Or
    >> the pick-up in coil inside your distributor-which can be
    >> replaced/rebuilt by yourself. Or
    >> your fuel pump relay is bad or your fuel pump itself. The Haynes
    >> manual will instruct you on how to do all these procedures. Some
    >> cars will act like yours if the seal in the gas tank lid is bad.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> Let the unseen day be. Today is more than enough.
    >>
    >> ___Sador the carpenter to Turin
    >> Tolkien, The Unfinished Tales
    >>
    >> Ellis_Jay
    >>

    > Thanks, I just thought of the timing belt because it happed so
    > suddenly, without
    > any advanced warning.


    Btw, you could remove number one plug, crank, and see if ya can get the
    piston to top dead center...

    --

    Let the unseen day be. Today is more than enough.

    ___Sador the carpenter to Turin
    Tolkien, The Unfinished Tales

    Ellis_Jay
     
    ellis_jay, Nov 16, 2006
    #13
  14. news-server

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:31:28 -0600, ellis_jay Has Frothed:

    > news-server wrote:
    >> "ellis_jay" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> news-server wrote:
    >>>> I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >>>> It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    >>>> later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I
    >>>> suspect the
    >>>> timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >>>> determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >>>> Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >>>
    >>> What does the engine warning lite do? Does it not stay on? Why do
    >>> you suspect the timing belt?
    >>>
    >>> If you are handy, buy yourself a Haynes manual for your car. Then
    >>> check the
    >>> engine codes with a hand held scanner. Those don't cost a hell of a
    >>> lot and
    >>> are easy to use once you identify your testing pigtail or test
    >>> circuit. My
    >>> guess would be your air flow vane is out of whack due to a fault or
    >>> cracks in the rubber, or a control module on the distributor. Or
    >>> the pick-up in coil inside your distributor-which can be
    >>> replaced/rebuilt by yourself. Or
    >>> your fuel pump relay is bad or your fuel pump itself. The Haynes
    >>> manual will instruct you on how to do all these procedures. Some
    >>> cars will act like yours if the seal in the gas tank lid is bad.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>>
    >>> Let the unseen day be. Today is more than enough.
    >>>
    >>> ___Sador the carpenter to Turin
    >>> Tolkien, The Unfinished Tales
    >>>
    >>> Ellis_Jay
    >>>

    >> Thanks, I just thought of the timing belt because it happed so
    >> suddenly, without
    >> any advanced warning.

    >
    > Btw, you could remove number one plug, crank, and see if ya can get the
    > piston to top dead center...


    What would that do?


    --
    Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2004

    COOSN-266-06-25794
     
    Meat Plow, Nov 16, 2006
    #14
  15. news-server

    tango Guest

    "ellis_jay" <> wrote in
    news::

    > news-server wrote:
    >> I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >> It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours
    >> later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect
    >> the
    >> timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >> determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >> Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.

    >
    > What does the engine warning lite do? Does it not stay on? Why do
    > you suspect the timing belt?
    >
    > If you are handy, buy yourself a Haynes manual for your car. Then
    > check the engine codes with a hand held scanner. Those don't cost a
    > hell of a lot and are easy to use once you identify your testing
    > pigtail or test circuit. My guess would be your air flow vane is out
    > of whack due to a fault or cracks in the rubber, or a control module
    > on the distributor. Or the pick-up in coil inside your
    > distributor-which can be replaced/rebuilt by yourself. Or your fuel
    > pump relay is bad or your fuel pump itself. The Haynes manual will
    > instruct you on how to do all these procedures. Some cars will act
    > like yours if the seal in the gas tank lid is bad.
    >

    It could be several things including crankshaft sensor, fuel pump, timing
    chain etc.
    First 2 things to check are ignition by checking to see if you are
    getting a spark and for fuel getting into intake.
    You can buy an inexpensive spark testor to connect between the wire and
    sparkplug to check this.
    If you have multiport fuel injection you need to check fuel pressure to
    the injectors.
    Sometimes it is easier to take it to a competent shop.
    Hayes manuals are pretty sorry, but they are cheap.
     
    tango, Nov 16, 2006
    #15
  16. news-server

    Frosty Guest

    I downloaded new messages from 24hoursupport.helpdesk on Thu, 16 Nov
    2006 17:07:28 GMT, and "news-server" <> puked this bit
    of wisdom all over my shoes:

    >Thanks for the input everyone, I think I got the newsgroup
    >right after all, I made the same posting to alt.autos.gm and
    >have yet to receive a reply.
    >
    >


    Yeah, they're a bunch of lamers.

    Oh and check your gas filter.
    >
    >"news-server" <> wrote in message
    >news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com...
    >> I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    >> It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    >> Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    >> timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    >> determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    >> Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.
    >>
    >>

    >
     
    Frosty, Nov 16, 2006
    #16
  17. Howdy!

    "news-server" <> wrote in message
    news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com...
    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2 hours later.
    > Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over. I suspect the
    > timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is anyway to
    > determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.


    On your Saturn, there's supposed to be a Schrader Valve in the fuel
    plenum. You need to see if there's any fuel pressure.

    My 2000 Malibu just about eats fuel pumps ... B(

    RwP
     
    Ralph Wade Phillips, Nov 16, 2006
    #17
  18. news-server

    Shel-hed Guest

    On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:37:30 -0600, "Ralph Wade Phillips" <>
    wrote:

    > On your Saturn, there's supposed to be a Schrader Valve in the fuel
    >plenum. You need to see if there's any fuel pressure.
    >
    > My 2000 Malibu just about eats fuel pumps ... B(
    >
    > RwP


    A friends pump went in their Cavalier.. it would work, then not.. then work..
    etc. The tow truck driver just thumped the gas tank, it cranked right up. He
    said he sees it all the time, and that it is a pretty good way to confirm the
    problem. He also said NEVER buy aftermarket pumps, GM only!
    A pump for a Cav was close to $900 Canadian after tax. !!!

    8-0 <thump>
     
    Shel-hed, Nov 17, 2006
    #18
  19. "news-server" Mr. Goodwrenched this into the works in
    news:UI_6h.75$-kc.rr.com:
    >
    > I've got a '94 Saturn SL2 which will not start, just cranks.
    > It was running fine until I parked it and tried to start it 2
    > hours later. Good battery, cranks fine, just will not kick over.
    > I suspect the timing chain at 83K but was wondering if there is
    > anyway to determine if it is bad without removing the cover.
    > Yes, it does have a half tank of gas.



    Hope you don't have condensation in your tank or fuel lines. Sounds
    like a firing issue to me. Checked all your connections, especially
    where the battery's ground cable is fastened cleanly and securely to
    the block, distributor spark plug wires are clean and tight,
    distributor cap is intact, nothing loose or wet inside there?

    On a '94 GM product > a sudden development > won't crank it could be
    something so simple, yet so arcane, as a fubared vacuum hose which
    controls timing advance and carburation. Those freaking little hoses
    get old, and just all of a sudden develop a crack or split, and there
    ya go. Pretty common at the 10 year level. If any of them are
    brittle, or have cracks at their ends, and you plan on keeping the
    auto, consider just buying a little reel of that new tubing from an
    auto-parts, and systematically R&R each and every one of them
    yourself. Of course, a GM dealer can put that little thangy in the
    thangy dealy-o, and badda-bing, knows exactly where the glitch is
    wonking.

    Best regards.

    --

    As the snow started to fall,
    he tugged his coat tighter around himself.
    Too tight, as it turned out.

    "This is the fourth coat crushing this year,"
    said the sergeant, as he outlined the body
    with a special pencil that writes on snow.
     
    Bucky Breeder, Nov 17, 2006
    #19
  20. news-server

    Guest

    "ellis_jay" <> wrote:

    >Btw, you could remove number one plug, crank, and see if ya can get the
    >piston to top dead center...


    Starter turns the crankshaft. so yet it would.

    --

    Vista and DRM
    http://tinyurl.com/y35xn8
     
    , Nov 17, 2006
    #20
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