How to set exposure for split-neutral density filter?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Jack, Apr 22, 2007.

  1. Jack

    Jack Guest

    Got a question I'm having trouble coming up with an answer for. Trying to
    spend less time in Photoshop to fix picture exposure when shooting pics that
    have a goodly amount of sky along with ground level detail I've seen
    mentioned to use a split-neutral density filter on the camera lens. I know
    there are different exposure levels (1 stop, 2 stop, etc.) available. What I
    don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure meter. I use a Canon EOS 10D
    and various lenses. Do I have to take the filter off each time to meter the
    scene, do I have to carry a hand-held exposure meter? Or what? If I have to
    do either of those, I might as well just take two exposures (one for the
    sky, the second for all else) and do a composite in Photoshop.
    --
    de N2MPU Jack
    Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CP Rail/D&H in N
    Proud NRA Life Member
     
    Jack, Apr 22, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Jack <> wrote:
    : Got a question I'm having trouble coming up with an answer for. Trying
    : to spend less time in Photoshop to fix picture exposure when shooting
    : pics that have a goodly amount of sky along with ground level detail
    : I've seen mentioned to use a split-neutral density filter on the camera
    : lens. I know there are different exposure levels (1 stop, 2 stop, etc.)
    : available. What I don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure
    : meter. I use a Canon EOS 10D and various lenses. Do I have to take the
    : filter off each time to meter the scene, do I have to carry a hand-held
    : exposure meter? Or what? If I have to do either of those, I might as
    : well just take two exposures (one for the sky, the second for all else)
    : and do a composite in Photoshop.

    There are several choices. First if you meter the image before puting the
    filter on, and you position the edge of the split along the horizon, you
    can set the camera for the metering you took of the main subject (spot
    metering comes in very handy in this case). If your camera has the ability
    to choose between several locations to meter on, you could set the meter
    to read one of the points below the center point as the split would tend
    to be across the center. Or if you can only center spot meter and you do
    not wish to be puting the filter on and off, you might try practicing.
    With some experience you may be able to predict what effect will be
    resulting from half the metering spot being "shaded" by the split ND
    filter.

    One suggestion, you may want to look at the square format filters and
    holders (such as the Cokin ones) instead of the round format ones. A round
    format split filter will lock you into the split always being in the exact
    same place on the image. But sometimes you may want to have only a sliver
    of sky (like 1/3 of the total height) instead of the horizon having to be
    across the center of the frame. A round filter is locked to a specific
    proportion of the frame. Square ones can be slid in their holder, allowig
    you to adjust the proportions of "shaded" to "unshaded". In addition you
    can easily slip the filter just far enough away from the center to allow
    the center spot meter to do its job without interferrence. And once you
    have metered the subject you can then slide the filter into its proper
    place if needed.

    Randy

    ==========
    Randy Berbaum
    Champaign, IL
     
    Randy Berbaum, Apr 22, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Jack

    Jack Guest

    On 4/22/07 2:04 AM, in article f0ett5$32n$, "Randy
    Berbaum" <> wrote:

    > Jack <> wrote:
    > : Got a question I'm having trouble coming up with an answer for. Trying
    > : to spend less time in Photoshop to fix picture exposure when shooting
    > : pics that have a goodly amount of sky along with ground level detail
    > : I've seen mentioned to use a split-neutral density filter on the camera
    > : lens. I know there are different exposure levels (1 stop, 2 stop, etc.)
    > : available. What I don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure
    > : meter. I use a Canon EOS 10D and various lenses. Do I have to take the
    > : filter off each time to meter the scene, do I have to carry a hand-held
    > : exposure meter? Or what? If I have to do either of those, I might as
    > : well just take two exposures (one for the sky, the second for all else)
    > : and do a composite in Photoshop.
    >
    > There are several choices. First if you meter the image before puting the
    > filter on, and you position the edge of the split along the horizon, you
    > can set the camera for the metering you took of the main subject (spot
    > metering comes in very handy in this case). If your camera has the ability
    > to choose between several locations to meter on, you could set the meter
    > to read one of the points below the center point as the split would tend
    > to be across the center. Or if you can only center spot meter and you do
    > not wish to be puting the filter on and off, you might try practicing.
    > With some experience you may be able to predict what effect will be
    > resulting from half the metering spot being "shaded" by the split ND
    > filter.
    >
    > One suggestion, you may want to look at the square format filters and
    > holders (such as the Cokin ones) instead of the round format ones. A round
    > format split filter will lock you into the split always being in the exact
    > same place on the image. But sometimes you may want to have only a sliver
    > of sky (like 1/3 of the total height) instead of the horizon having to be
    > across the center of the frame. A round filter is locked to a specific
    > proportion of the frame. Square ones can be slid in their holder, allowig
    > you to adjust the proportions of "shaded" to "unshaded". In addition you
    > can easily slip the filter just far enough away from the center to allow
    > the center spot meter to do its job without interferrence. And once you
    > have metered the subject you can then slide the filter into its proper
    > place if needed.
    >
    > Randy
    >
    > ==========
    > Randy Berbaum
    > Champaign, IL
    >

    Randy:
    Thanks for the quick reply. I haven't yet placed my order with B&H, so I'm
    not locked into a round versus square filter shape. I must admit I hadn't
    thought of using A square filter. You answered a question that I never
    considered: what to do about when the sky isn't 50% of the scene I want to
    photograph. This is the one area where I miss the latitude of film
    negatives.

    My camera's metering only allows 3 metering: center weighted, center
    weighted with averaging, and averaging. There's no apparent way to set a
    particular metering point; there may well be, but I haven't found it yet. If
    only camera operating systems software were as easy to muck about with and
    customize as OSX (aka Unix) on a Mac is, then I'd write a routine to do what
    I need.
    --
    de N2MPU Jack
    Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CP Rail/D&H in N
    Proud NRA Life Member
     
    Jack, Apr 22, 2007
    #3
  4. Jack

    Benny Guest

    Great reply - hadn't thought of the fixed circular filter issue.
    Must have been why a pro photographer gave me a square Cokin filter about 20
    years ago.
    What is a good all round Cokin ND filter, seeing as there are so many ND
    filters in their range.
    regards
    B



    "Randy Berbaum" <> wrote in message
    news:f0ett5$32n$...
    > Jack <> wrote:
    > : Got a question I'm having trouble coming up with an answer for. Trying
    > : to spend less time in Photoshop to fix picture exposure when shooting
    > : pics that have a goodly amount of sky along with ground level detail
    > : I've seen mentioned to use a split-neutral density filter on the camera
    > : lens. I know there are different exposure levels (1 stop, 2 stop, etc.)
    > : available. What I don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure
    > : meter. I use a Canon EOS 10D and various lenses. Do I have to take the
    > : filter off each time to meter the scene, do I have to carry a hand-held
    > : exposure meter? Or what? If I have to do either of those, I might as
    > : well just take two exposures (one for the sky, the second for all else)
    > : and do a composite in Photoshop.
    >
    > There are several choices. First if you meter the image before puting the
    > filter on, and you position the edge of the split along the horizon, you
    > can set the camera for the metering you took of the main subject (spot
    > metering comes in very handy in this case). If your camera has the ability
    > to choose between several locations to meter on, you could set the meter
    > to read one of the points below the center point as the split would tend
    > to be across the center. Or if you can only center spot meter and you do
    > not wish to be puting the filter on and off, you might try practicing.
    > With some experience you may be able to predict what effect will be
    > resulting from half the metering spot being "shaded" by the split ND
    > filter.
    >
    > One suggestion, you may want to look at the square format filters and
    > holders (such as the Cokin ones) instead of the round format ones. A round
    > format split filter will lock you into the split always being in the exact
    > same place on the image. But sometimes you may want to have only a sliver
    > of sky (like 1/3 of the total height) instead of the horizon having to be
    > across the center of the frame. A round filter is locked to a specific
    > proportion of the frame. Square ones can be slid in their holder, allowig
    > you to adjust the proportions of "shaded" to "unshaded". In addition you
    > can easily slip the filter just far enough away from the center to allow
    > the center spot meter to do its job without interferrence. And once you
    > have metered the subject you can then slide the filter into its proper
    > place if needed.
    >
    > Randy
    >
    > ==========
    > Randy Berbaum
    > Champaign, IL
    >
     
    Benny, Apr 22, 2007
    #4
  5. Jack <> wrote:

    : Randy:
    : Thanks for the quick reply. I haven't yet placed my order with B&H, so I'm
    : not locked into a round versus square filter shape. I must admit I hadn't
    : thought of using A square filter. You answered a question that I never
    : considered: what to do about when the sky isn't 50% of the scene I want to
    : photograph. This is the one area where I miss the latitude of film
    : negatives.

    : My camera's metering only allows 3 metering: center weighted, center
    : weighted with averaging, and averaging. There's no apparent way to set a
    : particular metering point; there may well be, but I haven't found it yet. If
    : only camera operating systems software were as easy to muck about with and
    : customize as OSX (aka Unix) on a Mac is, then I'd write a routine to do what
    : I need.

    In the case of your camera's metering limits I have a slightly different
    suggestion. First use a tripod and a square, split ND filter. If you
    visualize your image as being composed of 9 squares (3 rows of 3 squares).
    The majority of the metering (center weighted setting) will be this center
    square. So since this setting will somewhat average the light intensity of
    the whole image (with more importance being given to the center) metering
    with the bright sky included will tend to be influenced by the bright sky.
    So I would go ahead and put the split ND filter in place to darken the sky
    and then let the meter do its thing including the filtered sky.

    It would be a good idea to practice a bit as the result will be a slightly
    more bright overall image and you may find that some slight compensation
    will make the finished product more to your likeing.

    BTW, for any filter that is not the same over the entire surface of the
    filter, I find the flexability inherent in the square mount filters makes
    a big difference. The filter can be slid a bit in the holder so the
    effects can be shifted to the best compositional location. Of course this
    is JMHO and everyone should make their own decisions. :)

    Randy

    ==========
    Randy Berbaum
    Champaign, IL
     
    Randy Berbaum, Apr 22, 2007
    #5
  6. Jack

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Jack <> wrote:

    > Got a question I'm having trouble coming up with an answer for. Trying to
    > spend less time in Photoshop to fix picture exposure when shooting pics
    > that have a goodly amount of sky along with ground level detail I've seen
    > mentioned to use a split-neutral density filter on the camera lens. I know
    > there are different exposure levels (1 stop, 2 stop, etc.) available. What
    > I don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure meter. I use a Canon EOS
    > 10D and various lenses. Do I have to take the filter off each time to
    > meter the scene, do I have to carry a hand-held exposure meter? Or what?
    > If I have to do either of those, I might as well just take two exposures
    > (one for the sky, the second for all else) and do a composite in
    > Photoshop.


    Taking two exposures is probably easier and less cumbersome, plus you
    get to second-guess the placement of the transition, which doesn't have
    to be a straight line.

    If you know how to meter for both of those exposures, then you already
    know how to meter for an ND grad filter. The whole point of an ND grad
    is to darken the sky so it'll 'fit' in the dynamic range of the
    landscape's exposure.

    --
    http://www.xoverboard.com/cartoons/2007/070416_argument.html
     
    Paul Mitchum, Apr 22, 2007
    #6
  7. Jack wrote

    > What I don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure meter.


    Use the camera's histogram feature to review your shot. Adjust
    and reshoot if it shows overexposure.

    Chris
     
    Chris Gilbert, Apr 23, 2007
    #7
  8. Jack

    Paul Burdett Guest

    "Benny" <no spam > wrote in message
    news:7ZDWh.17699$...
    > Great reply - hadn't thought of the fixed circular filter issue.
    > Must have been why a pro photographer gave me a square Cokin filter about
    > 20 years ago.
    > What is a good all round Cokin ND filter, seeing as there are so many ND
    > filters in their range.
    > regards
    > B
    >
    >
    >
    > "Randy Berbaum" <> wrote in message
    > news:f0ett5$32n$...
    >> Jack <> wrote:
    >> : Got a question I'm having trouble coming up with an answer for. Trying
    >> : to spend less time in Photoshop to fix picture exposure when shooting
    >> : pics that have a goodly amount of sky along with ground level detail
    >> : I've seen mentioned to use a split-neutral density filter on the camera
    >> : lens. I know there are different exposure levels (1 stop, 2 stop, etc.)
    >> : available. What I don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure
    >> : meter. I use a Canon EOS 10D and various lenses. Do I have to take the
    >> : filter off each time to meter the scene, do I have to carry a hand-held
    >> : exposure meter? Or what? If I have to do either of those, I might as
    >> : well just take two exposures (one for the sky, the second for all else)
    >> : and do a composite in Photoshop.
    >>
    >> There are several choices. First if you meter the image before puting the
    >> filter on, and you position the edge of the split along the horizon, you
    >> can set the camera for the metering you took of the main subject (spot
    >> metering comes in very handy in this case). If your camera has the
    >> ability
    >> to choose between several locations to meter on, you could set the meter
    >> to read one of the points below the center point as the split would tend
    >> to be across the center. Or if you can only center spot meter and you do
    >> not wish to be puting the filter on and off, you might try practicing.
    >> With some experience you may be able to predict what effect will be
    >> resulting from half the metering spot being "shaded" by the split ND
    >> filter.
    >>
    >> One suggestion, you may want to look at the square format filters and
    >> holders (such as the Cokin ones) instead of the round format ones. A
    >> round
    >> format split filter will lock you into the split always being in the
    >> exact
    >> same place on the image. But sometimes you may want to have only a sliver
    >> of sky (like 1/3 of the total height) instead of the horizon having to be
    >> across the center of the frame. A round filter is locked to a specific
    >> proportion of the frame. Square ones can be slid in their holder, allowig
    >> you to adjust the proportions of "shaded" to "unshaded". In addition you
    >> can easily slip the filter just far enough away from the center to allow
    >> the center spot meter to do its job without interferrence. And once you
    >> have metered the subject you can then slide the filter into its proper
    >> place if needed.
    >>
    >> Randy
    >>
    >> ==========
    >> Randy Berbaum
    >> Champaign, IL
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Paul Burdett, Apr 23, 2007
    #8
  9. Jack

    Don Guest

    Jack

    I had the 10D and the cokin pro series of filters etc. I found that using
    the averaging metering with the filters in place does the trick. This goes
    for when using two or three filters say when wishing to slow the shutter
    speed down to blur a water fall or when shooting landscape and wishing to
    bring up a sky using a graduated or split filter. Also, I cant remember
    whether the 10D had exposure bracketing but if so using that is also a big
    plus. I currently use a 20D and a 1 Dmk11n both with Cokin filters and have
    never found exposure issues to be a problem with the evaluative metering.

    regards
    Don
    "Jack" <> wrote in message
    news:C2508075.2065F%...
    > On 4/22/07 2:04 AM, in article f0ett5$32n$,
    > "Randy
    > Berbaum" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Jack <> wrote:
    >> : Got a question I'm having trouble coming up with an answer for. Trying
    >> : to spend less time in Photoshop to fix picture exposure when shooting
    >> : pics that have a goodly amount of sky along with ground level detail
    >> : I've seen mentioned to use a split-neutral density filter on the camera
    >> : lens. I know there are different exposure levels (1 stop, 2 stop, etc.)
    >> : available. What I don't know is how to set the in-camera exposure
    >> : meter. I use a Canon EOS 10D and various lenses. Do I have to take the
    >> : filter off each time to meter the scene, do I have to carry a hand-held
    >> : exposure meter? Or what? If I have to do either of those, I might as
    >> : well just take two exposures (one for the sky, the second for all else)
    >> : and do a composite in Photoshop.
    >>
    >> There are several choices. First if you meter the image before puting the
    >> filter on, and you position the edge of the split along the horizon, you
    >> can set the camera for the metering you took of the main subject (spot
    >> metering comes in very handy in this case). If your camera has the
    >> ability
    >> to choose between several locations to meter on, you could set the meter
    >> to read one of the points below the center point as the split would tend
    >> to be across the center. Or if you can only center spot meter and you do
    >> not wish to be puting the filter on and off, you might try practicing.
    >> With some experience you may be able to predict what effect will be
    >> resulting from half the metering spot being "shaded" by the split ND
    >> filter.
    >>
    >> One suggestion, you may want to look at the square format filters and
    >> holders (such as the Cokin ones) instead of the round format ones. A
    >> round
    >> format split filter will lock you into the split always being in the
    >> exact
    >> same place on the image. But sometimes you may want to have only a sliver
    >> of sky (like 1/3 of the total height) instead of the horizon having to be
    >> across the center of the frame. A round filter is locked to a specific
    >> proportion of the frame. Square ones can be slid in their holder, allowig
    >> you to adjust the proportions of "shaded" to "unshaded". In addition you
    >> can easily slip the filter just far enough away from the center to allow
    >> the center spot meter to do its job without interferrence. And once you
    >> have metered the subject you can then slide the filter into its proper
    >> place if needed.
    >>
    >> Randy
    >>
    >> ==========
    >> Randy Berbaum
    >> Champaign, IL
    >>

    > Randy:
    > Thanks for the quick reply. I haven't yet placed my order with B&H, so I'm
    > not locked into a round versus square filter shape. I must admit I hadn't
    > thought of using A square filter. You answered a question that I never
    > considered: what to do about when the sky isn't 50% of the scene I want to
    > photograph. This is the one area where I miss the latitude of film
    > negatives.
    >
    > My camera's metering only allows 3 metering: center weighted, center
    > weighted with averaging, and averaging. There's no apparent way to set a
    > particular metering point; there may well be, but I haven't found it yet.
    > If
    > only camera operating systems software were as easy to muck about with and
    > customize as OSX (aka Unix) on a Mac is, then I'd write a routine to do
    > what
    > I need.
    > --
    > de N2MPU Jack
    > Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CP Rail/D&H in N
    > Proud NRA Life Member
    >
     
    Don, Apr 25, 2007
    #9
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. MOO112

    circular graduated neutral density filters

    MOO112, Jul 11, 2003, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,590
    MOO112
    Jul 11, 2003
  2. Replies:
    12
    Views:
    1,144
    John Navas
    Apr 11, 2004
  3. Larry Freytag
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    355
    Larry Freytag
    May 2, 2005
  4. Matt

    Sony Neutral Density Filter (VF-30NK)

    Matt, May 10, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    335
    birdman
    May 11, 2005
  5. Jstein

    Neutral density filter advice

    Jstein, Nov 25, 2008, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,559
Loading...

Share This Page