How to get good prints from 2MP images

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by -=_AnTaNi_=-, Jul 7, 2005.

  1. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    -=_AnTaNi_=- Guest

    Hi all,

    already posted on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot but probably more
    appropriate here

    During my vacation in NY, I had my compact flash card backed up by a
    Duane Reade shop.

    It happened that they resized all of my images from 2560x1920 to
    1536x1152, although I asked explicitly for a simple backup and not for
    any editing.
    Really smart.

    Now the question: the images are below 2MP in size, but at least they
    hold a lot of information because are around 2MB in size each. The
    original images were almost of the same size. What would you recommend
    to get best possible large prints in, say, 12x10 or 16x12? Directly
    asking for printing in that size, or making the images of higher
    resolution by interpolation? In this latter case can you suggest a good
    shareware software for upsampling?

    Thanks for any help
     
    -=_AnTaNi_=-, Jul 7, 2005
    #1
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  2. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    Jim Guest

    "-=_AnTaNi_=-" <> wrote in message
    news:8Yfze.130335$...
    > Hi all,
    >
    > already posted on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot but probably more
    > appropriate here
    >
    > During my vacation in NY, I had my compact flash card backed up by a
    > Duane Reade shop.
    >
    > It happened that they resized all of my images from 2560x1920 to
    > 1536x1152, although I asked explicitly for a simple backup and not for
    > any editing.
    > Really smart.
    >
    > Now the question: the images are below 2MP in size, but at least they
    > hold a lot of information because are around 2MB in size each. The
    > original images were almost of the same size. What would you recommend
    > to get best possible large prints in, say, 12x10 or 16x12? Directly
    > asking for printing in that size, or making the images of higher
    > resolution by interpolation? In this latter case can you suggest a good
    > shareware software for upsampling?
    >
    > Thanks for any help
    >

    As the images exist right now, it is unreasonable to expect good results
    from any picture larger than 5x7.
    You will be disappointed with the photos unless you increase the resolution
    by interpolation. You need about 200 dpi for any print of any size; hence
    you will need to double number of pixels in each dimension. I use
    Photoshop's bicubic interpolation, but I have not used it for that much of
    an increase. Hence, I cannot tell you that this is what you should use.
    Jim
     
    Jim, Jul 7, 2005
    #2
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  3. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    Ed Ruf Guest

    On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:07:32 GMT, in rec.photo.digital -=_AnTaNi_=-
    <> wrote:

    >Hi all,
    >
    >already posted on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot but probably more
    >appropriate here
    >
    >During my vacation in NY, I had my compact flash card backed up by a
    >Duane Reade shop.
    >
    >It happened that they resized all of my images from 2560x1920 to
    >1536x1152, although I asked explicitly for a simple backup and not for
    >any editing.
    >Really smart.
    >
    >Now the question: the images are below 2MP in size, but at least they
    >hold a lot of information because are around 2MB in size each. The
    >original images were almost of the same size. What would you recommend
    >to get best possible large prints in, say, 12x10 or 16x12? Directly
    >asking for printing in that size, or making the images of higher
    >resolution by interpolation? In this latter case can you suggest a good
    >shareware software for upsampling?


    Give the Qimage demo a try. Qimage has some of the best interpolation
    routines around.
    http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage

    ----------
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf, Jul 7, 2005
    #3
  4. "Jim" <> writes:

    > As the images exist right now, it is unreasonable to expect good results
    > from any picture larger than 5x7.
    > You will be disappointed with the photos unless you increase the resolution
    > by interpolation. You need about 200 dpi for any print of any size; hence
    > you will need to double number of pixels in each dimension. I use
    > Photoshop's bicubic interpolation, but I have not used it for that much of
    > an increase. Hence, I cannot tell you that this is what you should use.
    > Jim


    I dunno, I get stunning 8x10 (150dpi) from my lowly Olympus C-2100UZ
    (1600x1200) using commerical printers like mpix.com. The 11x16 prints (100dpi)
    aren't bad either. My prints do start to break down at 16x20 (75dpi) for close
    viewing but if the viewing distance is a few feet away it still looks good.
    Yes, if you use a loupe you can probably see the loss of detail, but most
    people tend to look at pictures with their eyes and not a magnifying glass.
    Also, it depends on the camera, pictures from my other 2MP camera (Olympus
    D-510Z) do start to break down at 8x10, but that is more a function of the
    higher jpeg compression level that produces artifacts and the quality of the
    lens. I don't bother with up-rezzing, since as far as I can tell, mpix does a
    great job.

    If you are up-rezzing for your own printer, a lot of people like Qimage:
    http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/

    --
    Michael Meissner
    email:
    http://www.the-meissners.org
     
    Michael Meissner, Jul 7, 2005
    #4
  5. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    MarkH Guest

    -=_AnTaNi_=- <> wrote in
    news:8Yfze.130335$:

    > During my vacation in NY, I had my compact flash card backed up by a
    > Duane Reade shop.
    >
    > It happened that they resized all of my images from 2560x1920 to
    > 1536x1152, although I asked explicitly for a simple backup and not for
    > any editing.
    > Really smart.


    Not to call you a liar or anything, but are you sure that you actually used
    2560x1920? It is just that you asked for a simple backup of your files and
    you claim that the shop went to a lot of trouble to edit everyone of your
    files to a different size, I can't see why they would do this.

    What camera is it, does it have an option for shooting in a lower
    resolution like 1536x1152?

    I just don't believe anyone would put themselves out so greatly to do
    something like this, why would they do anything other than simply burn the
    files to a CD? Any editing would have to take a noticeable amount of time
    and it would not be easy to accidentally batch process a CD worth of
    images.



    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Jul 8, 2005
    #5
  6. -=_AnTaNi_=- wrote:
    > Hi all,
    >
    > already posted on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot but probably more
    > appropriate here
    >
    > During my vacation in NY, I had my compact flash card backed up by a
    > Duane Reade shop.
    >
    > It happened that they resized all of my images from 2560x1920 to
    > 1536x1152, although I asked explicitly for a simple backup and not for
    > any editing.
    > Really smart.
    >
    > Now the question: the images are below 2MP in size, but at least they
    > hold a lot of information because are around 2MB in size each. The
    > original images were almost of the same size. What would you recommend
    > to get best possible large prints in, say, 12x10 or 16x12? Directly
    > asking for printing in that size, or making the images of higher
    > resolution by interpolation? In this latter case can you suggest a
    > good shareware software for upsampling?
    >
    > Thanks for any help


    Sorry to hear of the problem.

    Although I haven't tried this, my first approach would be to try and
    exactly double the resolution from 1536x1152 to 3072 x 2304 using a good
    interpolation algorithm (e.g. Smart Size in Paint Shop Pro 9). I don't
    think you'll get much more data beyond that. See how well such an image
    prints.....

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 8, 2005
    #6
  7. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    Gryzio Guest

    > Directly asking for printing in that size, or making the images of higher
    > resolution by interpolation? In this latter case can you suggest a good
    > shareware software for upsampling?

    I personaly woudn't ask for direct printing in that size, algorithms builded
    in most lab software generally math that from 'digital zoom' in most cameras
    ;-)

    With interpolation either use some dedicated software (ie qimage of photo
    zoom pro)
    which has some of the best interpolation algorithms, or use interpolation
    from
    all purpose photo editing software (ie. photoshop, paint shop, gimp).

    But beware - if you will try to use all purpose photo software do not try
    doing
    it in single step - to get some reasonable results you can try increase
    resolution
    by no more than 10% by single step - ie 1536x1152 then about 1690x1267 then
    about 1859x1394 etc, and after that try slightly sharpen overall results.

    But in any cases don't expect miracles.

    Regards
    Czeslaw Gryzik
     
    Gryzio, Jul 8, 2005
    #7
  8. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    -=_AnTaNi_=- Guest


    > Not to call you a liar or anything, but are you sure that you actually used
    > 2560x1920? It is just that you asked for a simple backup of your files and
    > you claim that the shop went to a lot of trouble to edit everyone of your
    > files to a different size, I can't see why they would do this.


    Yes I am sure, and I have proof of that. I didn't delete all of the
    photos from the backed up mem card, and I have just some photos in both
    resolutions, one on the card, one on the Duane Reade CDs... simply Duane
    Reade processed my photos instead of backing up. Clearly Duane Reade
    operator I talked to didn't know the difference between a backup and a
    processing, and/or the software they used is crap.

    >
    > What camera is it, does it have an option for shooting in a lower
    > resolution like 1536x1152?
    >


    It's a MInolta A1. I alway shoot in highest resolution with "Fine" JPEG
    compression, being able to store over 160 photos on a 512MB flash card.
    I only shoot at 1280x960 when I use digital zoom (in this case only this
    resolution can be used with A1).

    > I just don't believe anyone would put themselves out so greatly to do
    > something like this, why would they do anything other than simply burn the
    > files to a CD? Any editing would have to take a noticeable amount of time
    > and it would not be easy to accidentally batch process a CD worth of
    > images.


    It took a VERY noticeable amount of time, over than one hour. Indeed I
    should have said "no, thanks, this is a rip-off".

    But even if they process the JPG, it wouldn't be a big problem since the
    source JPGs are very big and hold a lot of information. The problem is
    that they shrink them to a lower resolution, and this is to me
    unacceptable.
    The operator always talked about COPY of the images to CD.
     
    -=_AnTaNi_=-, Jul 9, 2005
    #8
  9. On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:07:32 GMT, -=_AnTaNi_=-
    <> wrote:

    >already posted on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot but probably more
    >appropriate here
    >
    >During my vacation in NY, I had my compact flash card backed up by a
    >Duane Reade shop.
    >
    >It happened that they resized all of my images from 2560x1920 to
    >1536x1152, although I asked explicitly for a simple backup and not for
    >any editing.
    >Really smart.
    >
    >Now the question: the images are below 2MP in size, but at least they
    >hold a lot of information because are around 2MB in size each. The
    >original images were almost of the same size. What would you recommend
    >to get best possible large prints in, say, 12x10 or 16x12? Directly
    >asking for printing in that size, or making the images of higher
    >resolution by interpolation? In this latter case can you suggest a good
    >shareware software for upsampling?


    Sorry for you. That was really bad luck.

    The reasoning about the information in the file size is wrong,
    because the kind of information is different. The new files with
    the lower resolution probably have more information about the
    exact color of each pixel, but they still lack the information
    that was once in the higher resolution, in the larger number of
    pixels. There is no way to regain the latter.

    I only know a few programs that do good upscaling, but the
    cannot work miracles. One wears the word fractal in its name,
    the other is Extensis pxl SmartScale. The latter can redraw
    high-contrast edges smoothly in a higher resolution, which
    sometimes, but not always, looks good.

    You won't find any freeware program that can do any of this. The
    best that freeware can do is the Lanczos filter in IrfanView,
    which you could try. But many printer drivers already contain
    similar algorithms, for example the Photo Optimizer PRO in newer
    Canon printer drivers works similar to Extensis pxl SmartScale
    and redraws edges while printing. I just printed a 2 Megapixel
    aerial photo with this option, and in this case the result is
    good, as there are lots of edges on buildings that now almost
    look as if they had been taken with a 20 Megapixel camera.

    Hans-Georg

    --
    No mail, please.
     
    Hans-Georg Michna, Jul 9, 2005
    #9
  10. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    MarkH Guest

    -=_AnTaNi_=- <> wrote in
    news:b2Qze.51270$:

    >> I just don't believe anyone would put themselves out so greatly to do
    >> something like this, why would they do anything other than simply
    >> burn the files to a CD? Any editing would have to take a noticeable
    >> amount of time and it would not be easy to accidentally batch process
    >> a CD worth of images.

    >
    > It took a VERY noticeable amount of time, over than one hour. Indeed I
    > should have said "no, thanks, this is a rip-off".


    Incredible! Sometimes I wonder at the range and depth of human stupidity.

    Next time, if someone takes more than 10 minutes to back up a card to CD,
    enquire as to why it is taking so long to simply burn some files. And
    don't erase the card until you have checked the contents of the CD.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Jul 12, 2005
    #10
  11. On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 02:53:05 GMT, MarkH <>
    wrote:

    >Incredible! Sometimes I wonder at the range and depth of human stupidity.


    Mark,

    intelligence is always limited; only stupidity gives you a
    feeling of infinity. :)-)

    Hans-Georg

    --
    No mail, please.
     
    Hans-Georg Michna, Jul 12, 2005
    #11
  12. -=_AnTaNi_=-

    Scott Wuerch Guest

    Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
    > On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 20:07:32 GMT, -=_AnTaNi_=-
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>already posted on rec.photo.digital.point+shoot but probably more
    >>appropriate here
    >>
    >>During my vacation in NY, I had my compact flash card backed up by a
    >>Duane Reade shop.
    >>
    >>It happened that they resized all of my images from 2560x1920 to
    >>1536x1152, although I asked explicitly for a simple backup and not for
    >>any editing.
    >>Really smart.
    >>
    >>Now the question: the images are below 2MP in size, but at least they
    >>hold a lot of information because are around 2MB in size each. The
    >>original images were almost of the same size. What would you recommend
    >>to get best possible large prints in, say, 12x10 or 16x12? Directly
    >>asking for printing in that size, or making the images of higher
    >>resolution by interpolation? In this latter case can you suggest a good
    >>shareware software for upsampling?

    >
    >
    > Sorry for you. That was really bad luck.
    >
    > The reasoning about the information in the file size is wrong,
    > because the kind of information is different. The new files with
    > the lower resolution probably have more information about the
    > exact color of each pixel, but they still lack the information
    > that was once in the higher resolution, in the larger number of
    > pixels. There is no way to regain the latter.
    >
    > I only know a few programs that do good upscaling, but the
    > cannot work miracles. One wears the word fractal in its name,
    > the other is Extensis pxl SmartScale. The latter can redraw
    > high-contrast edges smoothly in a higher resolution, which
    > sometimes, but not always, looks good.
    >
    > You won't find any freeware program that can do any of this. The
    > best that freeware can do is the Lanczos filter in IrfanView,
    > which you could try. But many printer drivers already contain
    > similar algorithms, for example the Photo Optimizer PRO in newer
    > Canon printer drivers works similar to Extensis pxl SmartScale
    > and redraws edges while printing. I just printed a 2 Megapixel
    > aerial photo with this option, and in this case the result is
    > good, as there are lots of edges on buildings that now almost
    > look as if they had been taken with a 20 Megapixel camera.
    >
    > Hans-Georg
    >


    I use SI Pro for resizing and pixelating images up in size. Works great
    and at only $25.00 it is a great bargin. Give it a try.
     
    Scott Wuerch, Jul 19, 2005
    #12
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