how to delete trickler?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Brett Dale, Oct 1, 2003.

  1. Brett Dale

    Brett Dale Guest

    It seems my computer has the "trickler" programme, how do i go about
    deleting it? what folder will be it in?
     
    Brett Dale, Oct 1, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Brett Dale wrote:
    > It seems my computer has the "trickler" programme, how do i go about
    > deleting it? what folder will be it in?


    Search your computer for fsg.exe, fsg-ag.exe, fsg*.exe and delete them (May
    need to delete from safe mode).

    A program such as Spybot Search & Destroy may also take care of it.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Oct 1, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Brett Dale

    Max Burke Guest

    Max Burke, Oct 1, 2003
    #3
  4. Brett Dale

    steve Guest

    Max Burke allegedly said:

    > The Easy way;
    >
    > Download Adaware6:
    > http://www.lsfileserv.com/
    >
    > And Spybot:
    > http://www.safer-networking.org/
    >
    > Install and run both regularly......


    That and anti-virus software are the sort of crap you have to put up with on
    Windows.

    Yes, Max,...this is a troll. :)
     
    steve, Oct 1, 2003
    #4
  5. Brett Dale

    techie Guest

    On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:31:04 -0700, Max Burke wrote:

    >> Brett Dale scribbled:
    >> It seems my computer has the "trickler" programme, how do i go about
    >> deleting it? what folder will be it in?

    >
    >
    > The 'hard' way....
    > http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/adware.gator.html
    >
    > The Easy way;
    >
    > Download Adaware6:
    > http://www.lsfileserv.com/
    >
    > And Spybot:
    > http://www.safer-networking.org/


    Download Linux:
    http://www.linuxiso.org

    And never be bothered by viruses, trojans, or spyware again. :)
     
    techie, Oct 1, 2003
    #5
  6. Brett Dale

    T.N.O. Guest

    "steve" wrote
    > > Install and run both regularly......


    > That and anti-virus software are the sort of crap you have to put up with

    on
    > Windows.


    Only if dumb enough not to be security concious.
     
    T.N.O., Oct 1, 2003
    #6
  7. Hi there,

    steve wrote:
    > Max Burke allegedly said:
    >
    >
    >>The Easy way;
    >>
    >>Download Adaware6:
    >>http://www.lsfileserv.com/
    >>
    >>And Spybot:
    >>http://www.safer-networking.org/
    >>
    >>Install and run both regularly......

    >
    > That and anti-virus software are the sort of crap you have to put up with on
    > Windows.
    >
    > Yes, Max,...this is a troll. :)


    Don't do that Steve, you'll get me started again! ;-)

    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Oct 2, 2003
    #7
  8. Brett Dale

    steve Guest

    T.N.O. allegedly said:

    > "steve" wrote
    >> > Install and run both regularly......

    >
    >> That and anti-virus software are the sort of crap you have to put up with

    > on
    >> Windows.

    >
    > Only if dumb enough not to be security concious.


    That includes 95% of home users.... :)
     
    steve, Oct 2, 2003
    #8
  9. Brett Dale

    geoffm Guest

    On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:33:24 -0700, techie <>
    wrote:

    >And never be bothered by viruses, trojans, or spyware again. :)

    .... of course you won't be actually able to use your computer and old
    programs without much hassle either, but you will be safe...
    G
     
    geoffm, Oct 2, 2003
    #9
  10. Brett Dale

    T.N.O. Guest

    "steve" wrote
    > > Only if dumb enough not to be security concious.


    > That includes 95% of home users.... :)


    So if all those users were to switch to Linux then the same problems will
    occur... nice to see someone else finally see it for what it is, a user
    training issue...
     
    T.N.O., Oct 2, 2003
    #10
  11. Brett Dale

    techie Guest

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:10:08 -0700, geoffm wrote:

    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:33:24 -0700, techie <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>And never be bothered by viruses, trojans, or spyware again. :)

    > ... of course you won't be actually able to use your computer and old
    > programs without much hassle either, but you will be safe... G


    Nah, I dumped all that old legacy Windows crap. Here's what I use now:

    $pkg_info

    Hermes-1.3.2 Fast pixel formats conversion library
    Mesa-3.4.2_2 A graphics library similar to SGI's OpenGL
    ORBit-0.5.17 High-performance CORBA ORB with support for the C language
    ORBit2-2.6.2 High-performance CORBA ORB with support for the C language
    XFree86-4.3.0,1 X11/XFree86 core distribution (complete, using mini/meta-po
    XFree86-FontServer-4.3.0_1 XFree86-4 font server
    XFree86-Server-4.3.0_8 XFree86-4 X server and related programs
    XFree86-clients-4.3.0_2 XFree86-4 client programs and related files
    XFree86-documents-4.3.0 XFree86-4 documentation
    XFree86-font100dpi-4.3.0 XFree86-4 bitmap 100 dpi fonts
    XFree86-font75dpi-4.3.0 XFree86-4 bitmap 75 dpi fonts
    XFree86-fontCyrillic-4.3.0 XFree86-4 Cyrillic fonts
    XFree86-fontDefaultBitmaps-4.3.0 XFree86-4 default bitmap fonts
    XFree86-fontEncodings-4.3.0 XFree86-4 font encoding files
    XFree86-fontScalable-4.3.0 XFree86-4 scalable fonts
    XFree86-libraries-4.3.0_5 XFree86-4 libraries and headers
    Xft-2.1.2 A client-sided font API for X applications
    aalib-1.4.r5_1 An ascii art library
    acpicatools-20021118.0 Some utilities for Intel ACPICA (Debugger, ASL Compiler and
    aide-0.9 A replacement and extension for Tripwire
    arts-1.1.2,1 Audio system for the KDE integrated X11 desktop
    atk-1.2.4 A GNOME accessibility toolkit (ATK)
    autoconf-2.53_1 Automatically configure source code on many Un*x platforms
    autoconf213-2.13.000227_5 Automatically configure source code on many Un*x platforms
    automake-1.5,1 GNU Standards-compliant Makefile generator
    automake14-1.4.5_9 GNU Standards-compliant Makefile generator (legacy version
    bison-1.75 A parser generator from FSF, (mostly) compatible with Yacc
    bitmap-fonts-1.0 Bitmap font, (6x12, 7x14, 8x16, 12x24) dots bitmap font
    bonobo-1.0.22 The component and compound document system for GNOME
    bonobo-activation-2.2.1.1_1,1 An object activation framework for GNOME 2.0
    bzip-0.21 A block-sorting file compressor
    cabextract-0.6 A program to extract Microsoft cabinet (.CAB) files
    calcoo-1.3.13 Gtk-based scientific calculator
    cdlabelgen-1.5.0 Generate postscript for frontcards and traycards for CDs
    cdparanoia-3.9.8_4 A CDDA extraction tool (also known as ripper)
    cdplay-0.92_2 CD-player with text-based user interface
    cdrtools-2.0_1 Cdrecord, mkisofs and several other programs to record CD-R
    chexedit-0.9.7 Full screen text mode Hex editor using the [n]curses librar
    cups-base-1.1.18.0_5 The Common UNIX Printing System: headers, libs, & daemons
    curl-7.10.4 "Non-interactive tool to get files from FTP, GOPHER, HTTP(S
    dagrab-0.3.5_1 Read audio tracks from a CD into wav sound files
    db3-3.3.11,1 The Berkeley DB package, revision 3
    dirtree-1.2.0_1 A command line tool for displaying directory trees
    djbfft-0.76 An extremely fast library for floating-point convolution
    docbook-sk-4.1.2 XML version of the DocBook DTD version controlled for Scrol
    docbook-xml-4.2 XML version of the DocBook DTD
    docbook-xsl-1.61.2 XSL DocBook stylesheets
    eel-1.0.2_1 Generally useful classes and extensions to GNOME
    endeavour-1.13.0 A graphical file manager and image viewer aimed towards new
    eog2-2.2.1 The Eye Of Gnome image viewer
    esound-0.2.29 A sound library for enlightenment package
    expat-1.95.6_1 XML 1.0 parser written in C
    faces-1.7.7_3 Visual mail, user and print face server
    fam-2.6.9_2 A file alteration monitor
    filerunner-2.5 Filemanager with FTP capabilities. Uses Tcl/Tk
    fontconfig-2.2.0 An XML-based font configuration API for X Windows
    freefonts-0.10_1 A collection of ATM fonts (not all free) from the CICA arch
    freetype-1.3.1_2 A free and portable TrueType font rendering engine
    freetype2-2.1.4_1 A free and portable TrueType font rendering engine
    gcalctool-4.2.83 A GNOME 2 calculator tool based on the old calctool for Ope
    gcolor-0.4 GTK-based color picker
    gcombust-0.1.53 A GTK+ frontend for mkisofs and cdrecord
    gconf-1.0.9_3 A configuration database system for GNOME
    gconf2-2.2.0 A configuration database system for GNOME
    gdbm-1.8.3 The GNU database manager
    gdcalc-2.13 Gnome-based scientific calculator
    gdk-pixbuf-0.22.0 A graphic library for GTK+
    gentoo-0.11.34 Gtk+ based, file manager inspired by DirectoryOpus
    gettext-0.11.5_1 GNU gettext package
    ghostscript-gnu-7.06 GNU Postscript interpreter
    gimp-1.2.3_2,1 the GNU Image Manipulation Program
    glib-1.2.10_9 Some useful routines of C programming (previous stable vers
    glib-2.2.1_1 Some useful routines of C programming (current stable versi
    glimmer-1.2.1_1 A full featured code editor for GNOME desktop with many adv
    gmake-3.80 GNU version of 'make' utility
    gnome-icon-theme-1.0.3 A collection of icons for the GNOME 2 desktop
    gnomecanvas-0.22.0 A graphics library for GNOME
    gnomedb-0.2.96_1 Provide uniform access to data sources for the GNOME enviro
    gnomehier-1.0_8 An utility port, installing hierarchy of common GNOME direc
    gnomelibs-1.4.2_1 Libraries for GNOME, a GNU desktop environment
    gnomemimedata-2.2.0_1 A MIME and Application database for GNOME
    gnomeprint-0.37 Gnome print support library
    gnomevfs-1.0.5_4 GNOME Virtual File System
    gnomevfs2-2.2.5 GNOME Virtual File System
    gnuls-4.0_1 GNU colorized `ls'
    gsm-1.0.10 Audio converter and library for converting u-law to gsm enc
    gtar-1.13.25_5 GNU version of the traditional tar archiver
    gthumb-0.13 An image viewer and browser for the GNOME environment
    gtk-1.2.10_9 Gimp Toolkit for X11 GUI (previous stable version)
    gtk-2.2.1_1 Gimp Toolkit for X11 GUI (current stable version)
    gtk-engines2-2.2.0 Theme engine for the gtk+-2.0 toolkit
    gtkglarea-1.2.2_1 An OpenGL widget for the GTK+ GUI toolkit
    guile-1.6.4_1 GNU Ubiquitous Intelligent Language for Extension
    gzip-1.3.5 A compression utility designed to be a replacement for comp
    help2man-1.29 Automatically generating simple manual pages from program o
    hexedit-1.2.1 View and edit files in hexadecimal or ASCII
    hexpert-2.4.1 Hexpert - a simple but flexible binary file editor
    icemc-0.2.4 QT-based menu editor for IceWM
    icepref-1.1 A small graphical configuration utility for the Ice Window
    icewm-1.2.7_1 Window Manager designed for speed, usability and consistenc
    icewm-gnome-1.2.7_1 Window Manager designed for speed, usability and consistenc
    imake-4.3.0 Imake and other utilities from XFree86
    imlib-1.9.14_1 A graphic library for enlightenment package
    intltool-0.26 Xml internationalization support for GNOME, and others
    joe-2.8_5 Joe's own editor
    jpeg-6b_1 IJG's jpeg compression utilities
    kde-3.1.2 The "meta-port" for KDE
    kdebase-3.1.2 This package provides the basic applications for the KDE sy
    kdegames-3.1.2 Games for the KDE integrated X11 desktop
    kdegraphics-3.1.2 Graphics utilities for the KDE3 integrated X11 desktop
    kdelibs-3.1.2 This is the base set of libraries needed by KDE programs
    kdemultimedia-3.1.2 Multimedia utilities for the KDE integrated X11 desktop
    kdenetwork-3.1.2 Network-related programs and modules for KDE
    kdeutils-3.1.2 Utilities for the KDE integrated X11 desktop
    koffice-1.2.1_1,1 Office Suite for KDE3
    krename-2.6.2 Very powerful batch file renamer for KDE3
    krusader-1.11 A two window file-manager for KDE, like midnight or norton
    ksh93-20030422 Official AT&T release of KornShell 93
    lcms-1.09,1 Light Color Management System -- a color management library
    leafnode-1.9.41 NNTP package for offline news caching and reading
    leoarg-2.2.3 A class for parsing command lines
    libIDL-0.8.1 A library for creating trees of CORBA Interface Definition
    liba52-0.7.4 A free library for decoding ATSC A/52 streams, aka AC-3
    libao-esound-0.8.3_1 Portable audio output library
    libart_lgpl2-2.3.12 Library for high-performance 2D graphics
    libaudiofile-0.2.3 A sound library for SGI audio file
    libbonobo-2.2.2 A component and compound document system for GNOME2
    libbonoboui-2.2.2 GUI frontend to the libbonobo component of GNOME 2
    libdvdcss-1.2.5 Portable abstraction library for DVD decryption
    libdvdread-0.9.4 This is needed by ogle, which is a DVD player that supports
    libgda-0.2.96_1 Provides uniform access to different kinds of data sources
    libghttp-1.0.9 GNOME http client library
    libglade-0.17_2 GNOME glade library
    libglade2-2.0.1_1 GNOME glade library
    libgnome-2.2.0.1 Libraries for GNOME, a GNU desktop environment
    libgnomecanvas-2.2.1 A graphics library for GNOME
    libgnomeprint-2.2.1.2 Gnome print support library
    libgnomeprintui-2.2.1.2 Gnome print support library
    libgnomeui-2.2.0.1_1 Libraries for the GNOME GUI, a GNU desktop environment
    libgnugetopt-1.2 GNU getopt library
    libgsf-1.8.0 An extensible i/o abstraction for dealing with structured f
    libiconv-1.8_2 A character set conversion library
    libmcrypt-2.5.7 Multi-cipher cryptographic library (used in PHP3)
    libmikmod-esound-3.1.10 MikMod Sound Library
    libmng-1.0.5 Multiple-image Network Graphics (MNG) reference library
    libogg-1.0_1,3 Ogg bitstream library
    libpanel-1.4.2 A library for writing custom applets for GNOME Panel
    librsvg-1.0.3_1 Library for parsing and rendering SVG vector-graphic files
    librsvg2-2.2.5_1 Library for parsing and rendering SVG vector-graphic files
    libslang-1.4.9 Routines for rapid alpha-numeric terminal applications deve
    libtool-1.3.4_4 Generic shared library support script
    libungif-4.1.0b1 Tools and library routines for working with GIF images
    libvorbis-1.0_1,3 Audio compression codec library
    libxine-1.0.b11 Libraries for xine multimedia player
    libxml-1.8.17_1 Xml parser library for GNOME
    libxml2-2.5.7_1 Xml parser library for GNOME
    libxslt-1.0.30 The XSLT C library for GNOME
    linc-1.0.2 A library for writing networked servers & clients
    links-2.1.p9,1 Lynx-like text WWW browser
    linux-jpeg-6b.15_2 RPM of the JPEG lib
    linux_base-7.1_4 The base set of packages needed in Linux mode
    m4-1.4_1 GNU m4
    mad-esound-0.14.2b_2 High-quality MPEG audio decoder
    mc-4.6.0_2 Midnight Commander, a free Norton Commander Clone
    mcrypt-2.5.13 Replacement for crypt(1)
    medusa-0.5.1 GNOME filesystem indexer
    mget-1.4.1 Multi Threaded Wget
    mhash-0.8.17 "Library provides an easy way to access strong hashes such
    mkcatalog-1.1 A maintainance utility for sgml catalog files
    mkisofs-2.0 Create iso9660/Rock Ridge/Joliet filesystems
    mkitalic-1.0 Perl script to make BDF font italic
    mozilla-1.3.1,2 The open source, standards compliant web browser
    mp3chew-0.51.0 A program to rename mismatched and garbled MP3 filenames
    mtools-3.9.8_1 A collection of tools for manipulating MSDOS files
    nasm-0.98.35,1 General-purpose multi-platform x86 assembler
    nautilus-1.0.6_9 GNOME file manager and graphical shell developed by Eazel
    oaf-0.6.10_1 Object Activation Framework for GNOME
    pan-0.11.4_1 Threaded GNOME newsreader based on Agent for Windows
    pango-1.2.1_3 An open-source framework for the layout and rendering of i1
    pcre-3.9 Perl Compatible Regular Expressions library
    perl-5.6.1_13 Practical Extraction and Report Language
    pkgconfig-0.15.0 A utility used to retrieve information about installed libr
    png-1.2.5_2 Library for manipulating PNG images
    popt-1.6.4 A getopt(3) like library with a number of enhancements, fro
    py-gtk-0.6.10 A set of Python bindings for GTK
    py22-expat-2.2.2_2 Python interface to the Expat XML parser
    py22-numeric-21.0 The Numeric Extension to Python
    python-2.2.2_2 An interpreted object-oriented programming language
    qt-3.1.2 A C++ X GUI toolkit
    readlink-20010616 Dereference a symbolic link and print the name of the targe
    rox-1.3.9 A simple and easy to use graphical file manager
    rplay-3.3.2_1 Network audio player
    rpm-3.0.6_6 The Red Hat Package Manager
    rtfm-1.0 A FreeBSD documentation search mechanism
    scrollkeeper-0.3.12_1,1 An Open Document Cataloging Project
    sdl-1.2.5_1 Cross-platform multi-media development API (developm. vers.
    sdocbook-xml-4.1.2.5 "Simplified" DocBook XML DTD
    sgifonts-1.0.1 Fonts from the SGI ProPack 1.4 for Linux
    shared-mime-info-0.11 A MIME type database from the FreeDesktop project
    slrn-0.9.7.4 SLang-based newsreader
    sokoban-1.0 Logical game: problems with packets in cave
    srm-1.2.6 Secure rm, a utility which destroys file contents before un
    startup-notification-0.5_1 Library that supports startup notification spec from freede
    svgalib-1.4.2_1 A low level console graphics library
    symlinks-1.2 Symbolic link maintenance utility
    tcl-8.2.3_3 Tool Command Language
    terminus-font-4.00_1 Terminus Font - a clean fixed width font
    tiff-3.5.7 Tools and library routines for working with TIFF images
    tk-8.2.3_2 Graphical toolkit for TCL
    ttmkfdir-0.0_1 Create fonts.scale file for use with TrueType font server
    units-1.80 Unit conversion and calculation
    unzip-5.50 List, test and extract compressed files in a ZIP archive
    uulib-0.5.18 A library for uu/xx/Base64/BinHex/yEnc de-/encoding
    vim-6.1.474 Vi "workalike", with many additional features
    vorbis-tools-1.0_2,3 Play, encode, and manage Ogg Vorbis files
    webfonts-0.21_1 TrueType core fonts for the Web
    wget-1.8.2_3 Retrieve files from the Net via HTTP and FTP
    win32-codecs-011002.2.0.90.p7 Huge compilation of Win32 binary codecs, including MPEG-4(D
    windowmaker-0.80.2 GNUStep-compliant NeXTStep window manager clone
    wine-2003.05.08 Microsoft Windows 3.1/95/98/NT/2000 emulator for Unix
    wmicons-1.0 Icons mainly for use in Window Maker
    wrapper-1.0_3 Wrapper for XFree86-4 server
    xanim-2.92.0 Play most popular animation formats and show pictures
    xbatt-1.2.1 Laptop battery status display for X11
    xcd-1.7 A Tcl/Tk CD player
    xcdplayer-2.2 CD player for X
    xcdroast-0.98.a.13 Another X11 frontend to mkisofs/cdrecord
    xemacs-21.4.12 This port tracks the stable version of the XEmacs text edit
    xemacs-packages-8.0 Basic XEmacs elisp packages(xemacs-packages)
    xine-0.9.20_1 An X11 multimedia player
    xkeycaps-2.46_1 Graphically display and edit the keyboard mapping
    xli-1.17.0_1 Xli, xsetbg, xview, xlito - utilities to display images on
    xmms-esound-1.2.7_3 X Multimedia System --- An audio player with a Winamp GUI
    xmms-fishmatic-0.0.1 An XMMS non-static OpenGL stereogram visualization plugin
    xmms-infinity-0.2 A XMMS plug-in which generate full-screen interactive light
    xmms-nebulus-0.3.0 A XMMS visualization plugin that uses SDL and OpenGL
    xnview-1.50 An easy graphics viewer / converter
    xpaint-2.6.9_1 A simple paint program
    xpm-3.4k The X Pixmap library
    xsokoban-3.3c A puzzle of pushing objects to the goals
    zip-2.3_1 Create/update ZIP files compatible with pkzip

    And that doesn't include the 500 or so tools & utilities that come standard
    with the OS. :)
     
    techie, Oct 2, 2003
    #11
  12. "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "steve" wrote
    > > > Install and run both regularly......

    >
    > > That and anti-virus software are the sort of crap you have to put up

    with
    > on
    > > Windows.

    >
    > Only if dumb enough not to be security concious.
    >


    I regularly visit the Olympus Talk forum on dpreview. The messages contain
    links to other websites with their pictures. Strictly no porn. But two of
    the links brought up spyware along with the photo gallery. For example,
    'Purity Scan', which keeps changing the name of the executable it uses. The
    13th September update of Spybot caught that one.

    If you want to be 100% security conscious, you have to give up on the Web.

    Henry
     
    Henry Falkner, Oct 2, 2003
    #12
  13. Hi there,

    T.N.O. wrote:
    > "steve" wrote
    >
    >>>Only if dumb enough not to be security concious.

    >>

    >
    >>That includes 95% of home users.... :)

    >
    > So if all those users were to switch to Linux then the same problems will
    > occur... nice to see someone else finally see it for what it is, a user
    > training issue...


    ....here we go again...

    It wouldn't matter if 95% of Linux users were not security savvy,
    because linux itself 'as-is' provides better security than does
    Windows. I cannot debate that training helps, but installing a
    more secure OS to begin with also will help...

    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Oct 3, 2003
    #13
  14. Brett Dale

    T.N.O. Guest

    "Chris Wilkinson" wrote
    > >>>Only if dumb enough not to be security concious.


    > >>That includes 95% of home users.... :)


    > > So if all those users were to switch to Linux then the same problems

    will
    > > occur... nice to see someone else finally see it for what it is, a user
    > > training issue...


    > ...here we go again...


    I know, isnt it fun :)

    > It wouldn't matter if 95% of Linux users were not security savvy


    wanna bet... how is an unpatch root kitted linux box, any less annoying
    online than a root kitted Windows box?
    Left unpatched, it could be relativly easy to get.

    > because linux itself 'as-is' provides better security than does
    > Windows.


    until an exploit is found, then it is fucked, just like windows is.

    > I cannot debate that training helps, but installing a
    > more secure OS to begin with also will help...


    yeah... but if the secure by default isnt patched, it should no longer be
    trusted... same as an unpatched windows box.
     
    T.N.O., Oct 3, 2003
    #14
  15. Hi there,

    T.N.O. wrote:
    > "Chris Wilkinson" wrote
    >
    >>...here we go again...

    >
    > I know, isnt it fun :)


    The first few times round maybe... :)

    >>because linux itself 'as-is' provides better security than does
    >>Windows.

    >
    > until an exploit is found, then it is fucked, just like windows is.


    But who is looking for linux exploits? The overwhelming majority of
    nasties written are written to exploit weaknesses in Windows security,
    not linux security...

    >>I cannot debate that training helps, but installing a
    >>more secure OS to begin with also will help...

    >
    > yeah... but if the secure by default isnt patched, it should no longer be
    > trusted... same as an unpatched windows box.


    You've kinda missed the point. Even if the linux box is unpatched and
    unsecured, how many of the zillions of virii sneaking around the net
    are actually linux specific? Answer: Sweet FA...

    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Oct 4, 2003
    #15
  16. Brett Dale

    techie Guest

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:06:40 -0700, T.N.O. wrote:

    > "Chris Wilkinson" wrote
    >> >>>Only if dumb enough not to be security concious.


    <snip>

    >> because linux itself 'as-is' provides better security than does
    >> Windows.

    >
    > until an exploit is found, then it is fucked, just like windows is.


    First, due to the plethora of kernel versions and applications, a given
    exploit will affect only a small percentage of Linux userbase.

    Second, Linux developers don't insist on hanging onto incredibly stupid
    design decisions year after year, for example Microsoft's weird
    obsession with active content in emails and attached documents that has
    caused its users to be plagued since ~1996 with email worms costing
    businesses and Internet users billions of dollars every year.

    Third, the open-source nature of Linux forces developers to be more
    acutely aware of security issues. So, for example, code histories for
    the kernel and all major projects (and many minor ones) are traceable to
    specific individuals, submissions are verified using public-key
    encryption, and CRC-checking or other methods of file verification are
    heavily practiced by users for file downloads.

    Fourth, the open nature of open-source itself does away with some of the
    avenues commonly used to infect users' computers. Two examples:

    - Unlike MS, OS distributors like SuSE and Mandrake are free to
    distribute applications for their OS distributions on their CD's and
    to make updates available on their own trusted FTP sites, thus
    minimizing the need to download from dubious sources (or in most
    cases, to download at all).

    - Spyware will never be the problem for open-source users that it is for
    Windows users, because spyware creators know we'd just remove their
    spyware code and fork the application into a spyware-free project.

    >> I cannot debate that training helps, but installing a more secure OS
    >> to begin with also will help...

    >
    > yeah... but if the secure by default isnt patched, it should no longer
    > be trusted... same as an unpatched windows box.


    Linux users are much more likely to install security patches or enable
    automatic updates, because they aren't constantly breaking our systems
    and aren't used as backdoor trojans to hand ever more control over our
    computers to the manufacturer and to their friends at the RIAA, the
    DMAA, and (some of us darkly suspect) various law-enforcement and spy
    agencies.
     
    techie, Oct 4, 2003
    #16
  17. Brett Dale

    T.N.O. Guest

    "techie" wrote
    > > until an exploit is found, then it is fucked, just like windows is.


    > First, due to the plethora of kernel versions and applications, a given
    > exploit will affect only a small percentage of Linux userbase.


    Same with Windows machines... it is the users choice to use Vunerable
    software, and their choice not to patch... it may take longer, but it will
    still happen, appathetic users who don't patch will not suddenly download
    every patch that becomes available if they switch to Linux.

    > Second, Linux developers don't insist on hanging onto incredibly stupid
    > design decisions year after year, for example Microsoft's weird
    > obsession with active content in emails and attached documents that has
    > caused its users to be plagued since ~1996 with email worms costing
    > businesses and Internet users billions of dollars every year.


    It has also been able to be disabled since that date too, but it wasn't.

    > Third, the open-source nature of Linux forces developers to be more
    > acutely aware of security issues. So, for example, code histories for
    > the kernel and all major projects (and many minor ones) are traceable to
    > specific individuals, submissions are verified using public-key
    > encryption, and CRC-checking or other methods of file verification are
    > heavily practiced by users for file downloads.


    See thats where you wrong... current Linux users are more geeky than Windows
    users, If I gave my mum a Linux box to use, she would have no idea on how to
    do CRC checking etc... that is of course if she managed to download the
    updates. And my mum is fairly with it when it comes to computers, well,
    compared to me friends mums :)

    > - Unlike MS, OS distributors like SuSE and Mandrake are free to
    > distribute applications for their OS distributions on their CD's and
    > to make updates available on their own trusted FTP sites, thus
    > minimizing the need to download from dubious sources (or in most
    > cases, to download at all).


    Thats fine currently... but if/when Linux boxes are sold in PC shops, to
    ease support hassles, they will come to a standard for setting them up,
    clones...

    > - Spyware will never be the problem for open-source users that it is for
    > Windows users, because spyware creators know we'd just remove their
    > spyware code and fork the application into a spyware-free project.


    so non GPL programmers have no way to pay for their work? nice...

    > Linux users are much more likely to install security patches or enable
    > automatic updates, because they aren't constantly breaking our systems
    > and aren't used as backdoor trojans to hand ever more control over our
    > computers to the manufacturer and to their friends at the RIAA, the
    > DMAA, and (some of us darkly suspect) various law-enforcement and spy
    > agencies.


    I think that you should add "Currently" to the start of that long
    sentence... if you have dumb users, they wont patch, just like they don't
    patch Windows boxes.
     
    T.N.O., Oct 4, 2003
    #17
  18. Hi there,

    T.N.O. wrote:
    > "techie" wrote
    >
    >>Third, the open-source nature of Linux forces developers to be more
    >>acutely aware of security issues. So, for example, code histories for
    >>the kernel and all major projects (and many minor ones) are traceable to
    >>specific individuals, submissions are verified using public-key
    >>encryption, and CRC-checking or other methods of file verification are
    >>heavily practiced by users for file downloads.

    >
    > See thats where you wrong... current Linux users are more geeky than Windows
    > users, If I gave my mum a Linux box to use, she would have no idea on how to
    > do CRC checking etc... that is of course if she managed to download the
    > updates. And my mum is fairly with it when it comes to computers, well,
    > compared to me friends mums :)


    You really do not have any Linux experience do you? CRC checksumming for
    me involves nothing at all, since it is done by some software installers
    as a safeguard against downloading apps that may have been hacked...

    Geeks? We're only geeks if you decide we are...you'd think twice about
    calling me a geek if you stood face-to-face with me...

    > I think that you should add "Currently" to the start of that long
    > sentence... if you have dumb users, they wont patch, just like they don't
    > patch Windows boxes.


    ....here we go yet again, again!...

    You seem to be ignoring facts about computer security, that is the
    overwhelming majority of viruses and worms are written to spite
    Windows users, NOT Linux users...

    Your Windows box is only safe with those patches until the next nastie
    is written to exploit yet another of the many holes in Windows security.
    Then you'll need another patch. Meanwhile no new Linux nasties have been
    announced (capable of infecting desktop systems) since I got it in 12/03

    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Oct 5, 2003
    #18
  19. Brett Dale

    T.N.O. Guest

    "Chris Wilkinson" wrote
    > You really do not have any Linux experience do you?


    a little

    > CRC checksumming for
    > me involves nothing at all, since it is done by some software installers
    > as a safeguard against downloading apps that may have been hacked...


    Well I guess that download sites never get hacked(couple of months ago one
    did)

    > Geeks? We're only geeks if you decide we are...you'd think twice about
    > calling me a geek if you stood face-to-face with me...


    You obviously don't know me, I have been known to do many a stupid thing
    without thinking... I probably would call you a geek :)

    > > I think that you should add "Currently" to the start of that long
    > > sentence... if you have dumb users, they wont patch, just like they

    don't
    > > patch Windows boxes.


    > ...here we go yet again, again!...
    > You seem to be ignoring facts about computer security, that is the
    > overwhelming majority of viruses and worms are written to spite
    > Windows users, NOT Linux users...


    whats your point... target a large population, not a (relalativly) smaller
    one... besides, your average Linux user is more educated in security than
    your average Windows user(and yes I realise what Im saying).

    > Your Windows box is only safe with those patches until the next nastie
    > is written to exploit yet another of the many holes in Windows security.
    > Then you'll need another patch. Meanwhile no new Linux nasties have been
    > announced (capable of infecting desktop systems) since I got it in 12/03


    At this stage... all you need is some dumb arse users to give root access
    when the script asks, and there you go.
     
    T.N.O., Oct 5, 2003
    #19
  20. On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:15:41 +1200, Chris Wilkinson wrote:

    > But who is looking for linux exploits? The overwhelming majority of
    > nasties written are written to exploit weaknesses in Windows security,
    > not linux security...


    There have been a few linux worms circulating. Li0n being the most recent
    one I can remember (nearly 3 years ago)
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Oct 5, 2003
    #20
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