How to by-pass my Internet provider?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by ARADURS, Dec 16, 2006.

  1. ARADURS

    ARADURS Guest

    We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for e-mail.
    Not happy with Orange these days with some messages we send going astray.
    Not sure why but believe it may have something to do with other Providers
    not liking Orange and sometimes blocking and not allowing delivery....
    Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail messages via our googlemail
    or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these by-pass Orange..or do they still go
    via Orange...and therefore some may still go astray?
    ARADURS, Dec 16, 2006
    #1
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  2. ARADURS

    Mike Easter Guest

    ARADURS wrote:
    > We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for
    > e-mail.


    Your connectivity to the newsserver looks like griffin.co.uk/griffin.com

    What popserver smtp email account you configure OE for will determine
    your mail's pathway.

    > Not happy with Orange these days with some messages we send
    > going astray.


    As far as I know the orange.co.uk mailservers are such as
    orangehome.co.uk, orange.net, and also freeserve and some of its kin
    like fsnet and fsworld.

    > Not sure why but believe it may have something to do
    > with other Providers not liking Orange and sometimes blocking and not
    > allowing delivery....


    Sometimes a provider's outgoing mailservers can be blocklisted,
    especially if the provider has some kind abusive configurations like
    various autoresponders.

    > Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail
    > messages via our googlemail or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these
    > by-pass Orange..or do they still go via Orange...and therefore some
    > may still go astray?


    If you use your OE configured to use gmail's popserver for smtp, then
    your outgoing mail will show your connectivity IP address as the source
    and the outgoing gmail MTA instead of the outgoing orange or griffin
    MTA. If you use gmail's webmail, then your outgoing mail will only show
    the outgoing gmail MTA and not show your connectivity sourcing behind
    it. I don't know how hotmail or yahoo configure for that.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Dec 16, 2006
    #2
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  3. ARADURS wrote:

    > We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for e-mail.
    > Not happy with Orange these days with some messages we send going astray.
    > Not sure why but believe it may have something to do with other Providers
    > not liking Orange and sometimes blocking and not allowing delivery....
    > Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail messages via our googlemail
    > or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these by-pass Orange..or do they still go
    > via Orange...and therefore some may still go astray?


    Any freemail provider with authenticated POP access will do. You probably
    have to specify authentication, your full username including
    the "@mail.domain" and SSL for sending.
    Your mails will bypass your ISPs outgoing mail server then.
    --
    vista policy violation: Microsoft optical mouse found penguin patterns
    on mousepad. Partition scan in progress to remove offending
    incompatible products. Reactivate MS software.
    Linux 2.6.17-mm1,Xorg7.1/nvidia [LinuxCounter#295241,ICQ#4918962]
    Walter Mautner, Dec 16, 2006
    #3
  4. ARADURS

    divoch Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:458426b7$0$97247$...
    > ARADURS wrote:
    >> We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for
    >> e-mail.
    >> Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail
    >> messages via our googlemail or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these
    >> by-pass Orange..or do they still go via Orange...and therefore some
    >> may still go astray?

    >
    > If you use your OE configured to use gmail's popserver for smtp, then
    > your outgoing mail will show your connectivity IP address as the source
    > and the outgoing gmail MTA instead of the outgoing orange or griffin
    > MTA. If you use gmail's webmail, then your outgoing mail will only show
    > the outgoing gmail MTA and not show your connectivity sourcing behind
    > it. I don't know how hotmail or yahoo configure for that.
    >


    To put it simply, if you go to Google website and send mail from there you
    will connect to their website via your ISP but outgoing mail will be handled
    by Gmail

    divoch
    divoch, Dec 16, 2006
    #4
  5. ARADURS

    ARADURS Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:458426b7$0$97247$...
    > ARADURS wrote:
    >> We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for
    >> e-mail.

    >
    > Your connectivity to the newsserver looks like griffin.co.uk/griffin.com


    Yes, I'm using someone elses address at the mo

    >
    > What popserver smtp email account you configure OE for will determine
    > your mail's pathway.
    >
    >> Not happy with Orange these days with some messages we send
    >> going astray.

    >
    > As far as I know the orange.co.uk mailservers are such as
    > orangehome.co.uk, orange.net, and also freeserve and some of its kin
    > like fsnet and fsworld.
    >
    >> Not sure why but believe it may have something to do
    >> with other Providers not liking Orange and sometimes blocking and not
    >> allowing delivery....

    >
    > Sometimes a provider's outgoing mailservers can be blocklisted,
    > especially if the provider has some kind abusive configurations like
    > various autoresponders.


    I think you are correct.

    >
    >> Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail
    >> messages via our googlemail or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these
    >> by-pass Orange..or do they still go via Orange...and therefore some
    >> may still go astray?

    >
    > If you use your OE configured to use gmail's popserver for smtp, then
    > your outgoing mail will show your connectivity IP address as the source
    > and the outgoing gmail MTA instead of the outgoing orange or griffin
    > MTA. If you use gmail's webmail, then your outgoing mail will only show
    > the outgoing gmail MTA and not show your connectivity sourcing behind
    > it. I don't know how hotmail or yahoo configure for that.


    ...so if we go with google, hotmail or yahoo webmail then the messages will
    not go via Orange?
    ARADURS, Dec 16, 2006
    #5
  6. ARADURS

    ARADURS Guest

    "divoch" <> wrote in message
    news:XtWgh.12417$...
    >
    > "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    > news:458426b7$0$97247$...
    >> ARADURS wrote:
    >>> We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for
    >>> e-mail.
    >>> Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail
    >>> messages via our googlemail or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these
    >>> by-pass Orange..or do they still go via Orange...and therefore some
    >>> may still go astray?

    >>
    >> If you use your OE configured to use gmail's popserver for smtp, then
    >> your outgoing mail will show your connectivity IP address as the source
    >> and the outgoing gmail MTA instead of the outgoing orange or griffin
    >> MTA. If you use gmail's webmail, then your outgoing mail will only show
    >> the outgoing gmail MTA and not show your connectivity sourcing behind
    >> it. I don't know how hotmail or yahoo configure for that.
    >>

    >
    > To put it simply, if you go to Google website and send mail from there you
    > will connect to their website via your ISP but outgoing mail will be
    > handled
    > by Gmail

    -------------------------------------
    So any receving provider won't know that Orange is involved and thus won't
    kick messages into touch?
    ARADURS, Dec 16, 2006
    #6
  7. "ARADURS" <DS@NOMAIL> initially wrote:
    >
    > We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for
    > e-mail. Not happy with Orange these days with some messages we send
    > going astray. Not sure why but believe it may have something to do with
    > other Providers not liking Orange and sometimes blocking and not
    > allowing delivery.... Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail
    > messages via our googlemail or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these
    > by-pass Orange..or do they still go via Orange...and therefore some may
    > still go astray?



    "ARADURS" <DS@NOMAIL> later wrote:
    >
    > So any receving provider won't know that Orange is involved
    > and thus won't kick messages into touch?



    Perhaps you have the ability to view the headers in an e-mail which you
    have access to? In OE, you would open an e-mail message, goto File > click
    Properties, click Details tab, and then click Message source button. You
    can maximize that window.

    If you start at the top, you may see something like "Received:" and in the
    ensuing line, you will see some "from" information. There's also a unique
    message identifier, a de facto "hash" as it were. If you sent a mail
    either from your machine in OE, or you went via browser to a webmail
    account, and sent a mail from there, your IP address would normally appear
    in the message's headers, thus, in the receiver's headers, under about the
    same format.

    That header information is like a package with an address label, that all
    servers can read as your message is sent and passes along it's delivery
    route to the receiver. Your IP address would be within Orange's IP address
    range, thus, a server admin or a coded routine watching for that particular
    range, or address, etc., could identify and initiate some action based on
    that data. Additionally, that header data stays with the message, like
    your fingerprint stays with you, and becomes an integral part thereof.

    Now, there are various secured mail, mail forwarding, encrypted mail, and
    mail procedures which can be accessed --- or do something like get a proxy
    or shell account, then create a throw-away account with totally bogus
    information, and layer upon layer of munged information - but any way you
    look at it, to get onto the internet you are going thru an internet
    provider, and if "they" want to, "they" can watch you.

    Then there's a method of stealing a laptop, war-driving to find a
    vulnerable wireless access point, jump on, do your deal, get off, destroy
    the notebook, don't get seen around or in the area, and don't leave any DNA
    lying around, if you get off on that sort of thing...

    Now, we're back to the proposed issue of an intended receiver [server]
    filtering out your mail because of it's IP, or other data of origin... in a
    normal and usual end-user type situation?

    I'm not saying that they're not, but I'm not sure why anyone would be
    laying-in-wait just gonk-on your e-Mails. Probably something else is going
    on here.

    Anyways, maybe that information about the headers can help you assimilate
    the process a little better and work towards a satisfactory resolution.


    Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.

    --

    Probably to a shark,
    about the funniest thing there is
    would be a wounded seal,
    out in the middle of the ocean,
    desperately trying to swim to shore.

    Because, like - where does he think *he's* going!??!
    Bucky Breeder, Dec 16, 2006
    #7
  8. ARADURS

    AnonyMouse Guest

    ARADURS wrote:
    > "divoch" <> wrote in message
    > news:XtWgh.12417$...
    >> "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    >> news:458426b7$0$97247$...
    >>> ARADURS wrote:
    >>>> We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for
    >>>> e-mail.
    >>>> Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail
    >>>> messages via our googlemail or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these
    >>>> by-pass Orange..or do they still go via Orange...and therefore some
    >>>> may still go astray?
    >>> If you use your OE configured to use gmail's popserver for smtp, then
    >>> your outgoing mail will show your connectivity IP address as the source
    >>> and the outgoing gmail MTA instead of the outgoing orange or griffin
    >>> MTA. If you use gmail's webmail, then your outgoing mail will only show
    >>> the outgoing gmail MTA and not show your connectivity sourcing behind
    >>> it. I don't know how hotmail or yahoo configure for that.
    >>>

    >> To put it simply, if you go to Google website and send mail from there you
    >> will connect to their website via your ISP but outgoing mail will be
    >> handled
    >> by Gmail

    > -------------------------------------
    > So any receving provider won't know that Orange is involved and thus won't
    > kick messages into touch?
    >
    >


    Yep.
    AnonyMouse, Dec 16, 2006
    #8
  9. ARADURS

    Mike Easter Guest

    ARADURS wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> If you use your OE configured to use gmail's popserver for smtp, then
    >> your outgoing mail will show your connectivity IP address as the
    >> source and the outgoing gmail MTA instead of the outgoing orange or
    >> griffin MTA. If you use gmail's webmail, then your outgoing mail
    >> will only show the outgoing gmail MTA and not show your connectivity
    >> sourcing behind it. I don't know how hotmail or yahoo configure for
    >> that.

    >
    > ..so if we go with google, hotmail or yahoo webmail then the messages
    > will not go via Orange?


    If you use the mailservers of google, hotmail, or yahoo instead of the
    orange mailserver, then the receiving server will be receiving from
    those g, h, & y servers and not from the orange server, however....

    .... you used the words 'go via orange'. The electron bits will emanate
    from your OE and pass along the orange connectivity route to get to the
    outside email providers. That pathway by which the bits 'went via
    orange' from your orange IP is 'visible' in some ways and not others in
    the headers of your mail from the various providers. I was describing
    the gmail situation more exactly -- which shows no 'trail' of the bits
    leaving your orange IP when you use gmail webmail, but does show your
    orange IP when you use gmail's smtp server with OE.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Dec 16, 2006
    #9
  10. ARADURS

    ARADURS Guest

    TVM - Most informative. Cheers.
    ------------------------
    "Bucky Breeder" <> wrote in
    message news:Xns989B989C7FF42WeeZurD@216.151.153.34...
    > "ARADURS" <DS@NOMAIL> initially wrote:
    >>
    >> We use Orange as Internet Service Provider and Outlook Express for
    >> e-mail. Not happy with Orange these days with some messages we send
    >> going astray. Not sure why but believe it may have something to do with
    >> other Providers not liking Orange and sometimes blocking and not
    >> allowing delivery.... Anyway can someone tell us...if we send e-mail
    >> messages via our googlemail or hotmail or yahoo accounts do these
    >> by-pass Orange..or do they still go via Orange...and therefore some may
    >> still go astray?

    >
    >
    > "ARADURS" <DS@NOMAIL> later wrote:
    >>
    >> So any receving provider won't know that Orange is involved
    >> and thus won't kick messages into touch?

    >
    >
    > Perhaps you have the ability to view the headers in an e-mail which you
    > have access to? In OE, you would open an e-mail message, goto File >
    > click
    > Properties, click Details tab, and then click Message source button. You
    > can maximize that window.
    >
    > If you start at the top, you may see something like "Received:" and in the
    > ensuing line, you will see some "from" information. There's also a unique
    > message identifier, a de facto "hash" as it were. If you sent a mail
    > either from your machine in OE, or you went via browser to a webmail
    > account, and sent a mail from there, your IP address would normally appear
    > in the message's headers, thus, in the receiver's headers, under about the
    > same format.
    >
    > That header information is like a package with an address label, that all
    > servers can read as your message is sent and passes along it's delivery
    > route to the receiver. Your IP address would be within Orange's IP
    > address
    > range, thus, a server admin or a coded routine watching for that
    > particular
    > range, or address, etc., could identify and initiate some action based on
    > that data. Additionally, that header data stays with the message, like
    > your fingerprint stays with you, and becomes an integral part thereof.
    >
    > Now, there are various secured mail, mail forwarding, encrypted mail, and
    > mail procedures which can be accessed --- or do something like get a proxy
    > or shell account, then create a throw-away account with totally bogus
    > information, and layer upon layer of munged information - but any way you
    > look at it, to get onto the internet you are going thru an internet
    > provider, and if "they" want to, "they" can watch you.
    >
    > Then there's a method of stealing a laptop, war-driving to find a
    > vulnerable wireless access point, jump on, do your deal, get off, destroy
    > the notebook, don't get seen around or in the area, and don't leave any
    > DNA
    > lying around, if you get off on that sort of thing...
    >
    > Now, we're back to the proposed issue of an intended receiver [server]
    > filtering out your mail because of it's IP, or other data of origin... in
    > a
    > normal and usual end-user type situation?
    >
    > I'm not saying that they're not, but I'm not sure why anyone would be
    > laying-in-wait just gonk-on your e-Mails. Probably something else is
    > going
    > on here.
    >
    > Anyways, maybe that information about the headers can help you assimilate
    > the process a little better and work towards a satisfactory resolution.
    >
    >
    > Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Probably to a shark,
    > about the funniest thing there is
    > would be a wounded seal,
    > out in the middle of the ocean,
    > desperately trying to swim to shore.
    >
    > Because, like - where does he think *he's* going!??!
    ARADURS, Dec 17, 2006
    #10
  11. "ARADURS" <DS@NOMAIL> wrote in
    news::
    >
    > TVM - Most informative. Cheers.



    YMW - Thank you for acknowledging... I thought about it a little bit after
    I'd hurriedly clicked the send button, and not to say that you haven't
    deduced it already, but I wish I would have added a suggestion that you
    access some of the various free webmail offerings, open a "throw-away"
    account with "munged" information, and then from that web interface, or
    even from one account in OE to another account in your own OE, or a
    friend's OE, and send to yourself e-Mails as a test, and then view the
    header information in OE's rather cumbersome, but expository process.

    One very nice thing about OE is that it is so prevelant that most free
    webmail services either give very detailed instructions on how to set up
    their accounts in OE, or outright preclude using it to check their mail
    boxes. Either way - whether you send [yourself] a mail from your OE, or
    from their web interface - you can still examine the header information on
    all e-Mail received in OE.

    I hope something workable turns up for you.


    Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.

    --

    Some folks still say they had witnessed a miracle!

    All was not going well when the glorified appearance of
    St. Christopher suddenly appeared replacing the batter
    and knocked the very next pitch clean over the fence
    with 3 runners on base - in the bottom of the 9th inning.

    But I still believe that it was just a lucky swing.
    Bucky Breeder, Dec 17, 2006
    #11
  12. ARADURS

    ARADURS Guest

    Thanks again, Bucky - good idea. Regards.
    -------------
    "Bucky Breeder" <> wrote in
    message news:Xns989C64A3BF302WeeZurD@216.151.153.13...
    > "ARADURS" <DS@NOMAIL> wrote in
    > news::
    >>
    >> TVM - Most informative. Cheers.

    >
    >
    > YMW - Thank you for acknowledging... I thought about it a little bit
    > after
    > I'd hurriedly clicked the send button, and not to say that you haven't
    > deduced it already, but I wish I would have added a suggestion that you
    > access some of the various free webmail offerings, open a "throw-away"
    > account with "munged" information, and then from that web interface, or
    > even from one account in OE to another account in your own OE, or a
    > friend's OE, and send to yourself e-Mails as a test, and then view the
    > header information in OE's rather cumbersome, but expository process.
    >
    > One very nice thing about OE is that it is so prevelant that most free
    > webmail services either give very detailed instructions on how to set up
    > their accounts in OE, or outright preclude using it to check their mail
    > boxes. Either way - whether you send [yourself] a mail from your OE, or
    > from their web interface - you can still examine the header information on
    > all e-Mail received in OE.
    >
    > I hope something workable turns up for you.
    >
    >
    > Best wishes to all for a safe and joyous holiday season.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Some folks still say they had witnessed a miracle!
    >
    > All was not going well when the glorified appearance of
    > St. Christopher suddenly appeared replacing the batter
    > and knocked the very next pitch clean over the fence
    > with 3 runners on base - in the bottom of the 9th inning.
    >
    > But I still believe that it was just a lucky swing.
    ARADURS, Dec 17, 2006
    #12
  13. ARADURS

    divoch Guest

    ARADURS wrote:
    > Thanks again, Bucky - good idea. Regards.



    My ISP is NTL. On inspection of the test message send from my Gmail (=google
    mail) account using OE (not webmail account) there seems to be no mention of
    NTL in the headers of the message. Therefore, it seems to me that if you set
    Googlemail (or Yahoo) mail as a POP3 account in Outlook Express (OE) you
    get the best of both worlds. That is what I do with NTL, in your case it
    would be Orange.
    The main advantage of this setup is that you get messages both in OE and in
    the Googlemail web account where they remain "forever" or as long as you
    want even if you delete them in OE. You can access Googlemail account on
    the web from anywhere in the world and this is a major advantage to me.
    best regards
    divoch
    divoch, Dec 18, 2006
    #13
  14. ARADURS

    ARADURS Guest

    "divoch" <> wrote in message
    news:h1thh.12023$...
    > ARADURS wrote:
    >> Thanks again, Bucky - good idea. Regards.

    >
    >
    > My ISP is NTL. On inspection of the test message send from my Gmail
    > (=google mail) account using OE (not webmail account) there seems to be no
    > mention of NTL in the headers of the message. Therefore, it seems to me
    > that if you set Googlemail (or Yahoo) mail as a POP3 account in Outlook
    > Express (OE) you get the best of both worlds. That is what I do with NTL,
    > in your case it would be Orange.
    > The main advantage of this setup is that you get messages both in OE and
    > in the Googlemail web account where they remain "forever" or as long as
    > you want even if you delete them in OE. You can access Googlemail account
    > on the web from anywhere in the world and this is a major advantage to me.
    > best regards
    > divoch

    -----------------------
    Thanks for that...that sounds exactly as I would like to arrange things - ie
    use OE for Google and ensure messages don't get blocked because they can be
    seen by servers to have originated from Orange.
    Tell me - not having tried what you suggest yet - do you have one OE setup
    that shows messages in and out from both NTL and Google...or do you have two
    completely separate set ups of OE - one for NTL and the other for Google?
    Thanks.
    ARADURS, Dec 18, 2006
    #14
  15. ARADURS

    Mike Easter Guest

    divoch wrote:

    > My ISP is NTL. On inspection of the test message send from my Gmail
    > (=google mail) account using OE (not webmail account) there seems to
    > be no mention of NTL in the headers of the message.


    There is no 'mention' of NTL, but your NTL IP appears in the headers of
    your/that test message sent thru' gmail's smtp server.

    It is in the last ie bottom Received: from traceline. The gmail smtp
    does not perform an rDNS on your IP, so the IP is not labeled with its
    rDNS name.

    Your IP wihout its name also appears twice in the headers of your news
    message here; in the NPH [nntp posting host] line and in the Trace
    line.

    > Therefore, it
    > seems to me that if you set Googlemail (or Yahoo) mail as a POP3
    > account in Outlook Express (OE) you get the best of both worlds.


    There is a problem with using gmail as the output server, as the gmail
    servers manage to get themselves blocklisted often. Many 'people',
    including a particular class of spammer get gmail accounts and spam from
    the gmail webmailer, because the gmail webmailer does /not/ stamp the
    sender's IP as described above for the gmail smtp server. That leaves
    the gmail server determined as the spamsource by spam blocklisting
    systems based on source, such as spamcop's, a popular blocklist. This
    gmail server spamsourcing behavior hits all kinds of other blocklisting
    services which have spamtraps besides spamcop.

    Yahoo servers get themselves blocklisted as well. And there are some
    other problems with the 'acceptability' of free email accounts,
    depending upon what you are trying to use your email account for
    registering.

    I think that having a gmail account is a useful tool in the email
    'armamentarium', but it is not a cure-all.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Dec 18, 2006
    #15
  16. ARADURS

    Mike Easter Guest

    ARADURS wrote:

    > Tell me - not having tried what you suggest yet - do you have one OE
    > setup that shows messages in and out from both NTL and Google...or do
    > you have two completely separate set ups of OE - one for NTL and the
    > other for Google?


    OE has two different ways of accomplishing what you are describing. You
    can do it with a single identity which has two or more different mail
    accounts, the NTL one and the gmail one, in which case all of the mail
    to or from each account is found in the same inbox and the same sent
    folder. The items can be distinguished from each other and message rule
    autosorted based on the 'from a specific account' or 'to a specific
    address' if you don't want them 'mixed up' together.

    You can alternatively do it with separate identities. When you have
    separate OE identities, the NTL inbox and sent folders would be
    maintained entirely separately from the gmail inbox/sent. As if you
    were two different people - 'split' identity. In that configuration,
    you need to switch identities in OE to handle each account separately.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Dec 18, 2006
    #16
  17. ARADURS

    divoch Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > ARADURS wrote:
    >
    >> Tell me - not having tried what you suggest yet - do you have one OE
    >> setup that shows messages in and out from both NTL and Google...or do
    >> you have two completely separate set ups of OE - one for NTL and the
    >> other for Google?

    >
    > OE has two different ways of accomplishing what you are describing.
    > You can do it with a single identity which has two or more different
    > mail accounts, the NTL one and the gmail one, in which case all of
    > the mail to or from each account is found in the same inbox and the
    > same sent folder. The items can be distinguished from each other and
    > message rule autosorted based on the 'from a specific account' or 'to
    > a specific address' if you don't want them 'mixed up' together.


    This is what I do
    divoch
    divoch, Dec 18, 2006
    #17
  18. ARADURS

    divoch Guest

    Mike Easter wrote:
    > divoch wrote:
    >
    >> My ISP is NTL. On inspection of the test message send from my Gmail
    >> (=google mail) account using OE (not webmail account) there seems to
    >> be no mention of NTL in the headers of the message.

    >
    > There is no 'mention' of NTL, but your NTL IP appears in the headers
    > of your/that test message sent thru' gmail's smtp server.


    Yes, I seem to have overlooked it. So, that presumably means that
    one has to send from the web based account to avoid "disclosing" the
    own ISP

    > Your IP without its name also appears twice in the headers of your news
    > message here; in the NPH [nntp posting host] line and in the Trace
    > line.

    Yes, that I would expect

    >> Therefore, it
    >> seems to me that if you set Googlemail (or Yahoo) mail as a POP3
    >> account in Outlook Express (OE) you get the best of both worlds.

    >
    > There is a problem with using gmail as the output server, as the gmail
    > servers manage to get themselves blocklisted often.

    Fortunately I did not experience being blocked, but I usually send gmail
    from my OE, not from the website.

    divoch
    divoch, Dec 18, 2006
    #18
  19. ARADURS

    ARADURS Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:4586940b$0$97259$...
    > divoch wrote:
    >
    >> My ISP is NTL. On inspection of the test message send from my Gmail
    >> (=google mail) account using OE (not webmail account) there seems to
    >> be no mention of NTL in the headers of the message.

    >
    > There is no 'mention' of NTL, but your NTL IP appears in the headers of
    > your/that test message sent thru' gmail's smtp server.
    >
    > It is in the last ie bottom Received: from traceline. The gmail smtp
    > does not perform an rDNS on your IP, so the IP is not labeled with its
    > rDNS name.
    >
    > Your IP wihout its name also appears twice in the headers of your news
    > message here; in the NPH [nntp posting host] line and in the Trace
    > line.
    >
    >> Therefore, it
    >> seems to me that if you set Googlemail (or Yahoo) mail as a POP3
    >> account in Outlook Express (OE) you get the best of both worlds.

    >
    > There is a problem with using gmail as the output server, as the gmail
    > servers manage to get themselves blocklisted often. Many 'people',
    > including a particular class of spammer get gmail accounts and spam from
    > the gmail webmailer, because the gmail webmailer does /not/ stamp the
    > sender's IP as described above for the gmail smtp server. That leaves
    > the gmail server determined as the spamsource by spam blocklisting
    > systems based on source, such as spamcop's, a popular blocklist. This
    > gmail server spamsourcing behavior hits all kinds of other blocklisting
    > services which have spamtraps besides spamcop.
    >
    > Yahoo servers get themselves blocklisted as well. And there are some
    > other problems with the 'acceptability' of free email accounts,
    > depending upon what you are trying to use your email account for
    > registering.
    >
    > I think that having a gmail account is a useful tool in the email
    > 'armamentarium', but it is not a cure-all.

    ------------------------
    Thanks for that ....
    Is there a "cure all"..or what IYHO is the best way to ensure max throughput
    and minimum blocklisting..using either what I have at the mo...Orange,
    Google,
    Hotmail, Yahoo...or anothers?
    It wouldn't be so bad if blocking systems always said the mail wasn't
    being allowed through for whatever reason...
    but with Orange this isn't the case so we are never sure if an important
    message has made it through unless the recient replies and says so.
    {Have used the predessessors of Orange for years freeserve and wanadoo
    ....no problem...but since Orange has been the provider...!!}
    I could use the receipt facility I suppose but that isn't 100% is it.
    Cheers. John
    ARADURS, Dec 18, 2006
    #19
  20. ARADURS

    Mike Easter Guest

    ARADURS wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"


    >> I think that having a gmail account is a useful tool in the email
    >> 'armamentarium', but it is not a cure-all.


    > Is there a "cure all"..or what IYHO is the best way to ensure max
    > throughput and minimum blocklisting..using either what I have at the
    > mo...Orange, Google,
    > Hotmail, Yahoo...or anothers?


    I don't know about a cure-all, but I think it is useful to have more
    than one kind of email account, without going overboard with the number
    of accounts which can cause problems in address and mail management and
    filing/storage of sent and received mails. I find it sufficient to have
    more than one email account with my connectivity provider and to have
    more than one gmail account.

    My connectivity provider EarthLink provides alternative ways to
    configure the spam management issue. I have one account which has zero
    spam filtering and all of its spam management is facilitated with
    SpamPal's filtertagging. I have another account which has 'total'
    spamfiltering, allowing whitelisteds only and autoreporting everything
    which the provider's spamfilter didn't call known spam and which wasn't
    whitelisted.

    My default mail smtp server is with that provider, not gmail's. If I
    want to source a mail from gmail, then I temporarily switch default mail
    accounts.

    My gmail accounts are configured to forward to my connectivity
    provider's account which is the one which is whitelisteds only and to
    retain copies of those on the gmail account. Both my connectivity and
    gmail mail accounts can be configured for address plussing, that is they
    can handle

    > It wouldn't be so bad if blocking systems always said the mail wasn't
    > being allowed through for whatever reason...


    I don't know exactly what kind of problem you are running into with your
    mail being blocked or rejected. I would have to see a copy of the
    delivery status notification including the attached headers to figure
    out where the problem is. When you say 'blocked' or 'bounced' that can
    mean different things. The ideal DSN would be generated by your own
    provider and the basis for the DSN would be a rejection by a receiving
    server and the receiving server's message would be adequate to inform of
    the reason for the rejection. But there are other kinds of so-called
    bounces which actually originate as a newmail from a receiving server.

    > but with Orange this isn't the case so we are never sure if an
    > important message has made it through unless the recient replies and
    > says so. {Have used the predessessors of Orange for years freeserve
    > and wanadoo ...no problem...but since Orange has been the
    > provider...!!}


    When there are problems going on in which there is a question of mail
    'dropped on the floor' - which dropped on the floor means that a mail
    does not reach the intended recipient and yet/but there is no DSN, no
    'bounce', no rejection, just lost -- then the troubleshooting is
    problematic. There are a number of ways to do it. You and the
    recipient can both configure to handle receipts -- that is your mua
    mailuseragent configured to request a receipt for all sent messages and
    your recipients configured to send a read receipt for all messages or to
    notify when a read receipt is requested.

    In addition, if you are trying to track your own messages to your
    recipient's server, it is useful to have your clock accurate with NIST
    time and to send yourself a copy of the messages you send, so that you
    can have both a messageid and an accurate timestamp. Your Sent folder
    messages don't have a message id.

    > I could use the receipt facility I suppose but that isn't 100% is it.


    The receipt situation works if your recipient is configured to provide
    for it. Not if they aren't.


    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, Dec 18, 2006
    #20
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