how many here have Canon 10D with no focus problem?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Jimmy Smith, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. Jimmy Smith

    Jimmy Smith Guest

    I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?

    Who has (had) it here?

    Jimmy
     
    Jimmy Smith, Jun 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jimmy Smith

    Mark M Guest

    "Jimmy Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:GdQxc.5156$...
    > I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    > owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    > people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >
    > Who has (had) it here?
    >
    > Jimmy


    I had an early model that suffered the problem.
    It was replaced by a later one, which is perfect.

    I am convinced that a great many folk complain of a focus problem, but
    actually have a perfect camera. For many shooters, this is their first
    exposure to an slr. For those new folk who also bought a fast (large
    aperture) lens, they may be totally baffled by the shalow depth of focus
    when shooting a lens wide open, and may then blame the camera.

    Also... The 10D comes from the factory set so that the camera tries to
    automatically select a focus point. Many people keep it in this mode not
    realizing what is going on. When the camrea chooses the wrong point (which
    it of course will, often), they assume there's something wrong again.

    I am 100% convinced that the problem was limited to early production only.
    All 10Ds I've seen save for the first ones have been fine.

    -Mark
     
    Mark M, Jun 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. Jimmy Smith

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: "Jimmy Smith"

    >I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    >owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    >people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >
    >Who has (had) it here?


    My wife has a 10D that I sometimes use and it focusses fine, but there's no
    doubt some do have a problem.

    Here's a good write-up on the problem, with a test to see how your camera fares
    ....

    http://www.photo.net/learn/focustest/

    Bill
     
    Bill Hilton, Jun 10, 2004
    #3
  4. In article <GdQxc.5156$>,
    says...
    > I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    > owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    > people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >
    > Who has (had) it here?
    >
    > Jimmy


    I think the problem is rare, and somewhat overblown. If anyone is
    worried about front or back focus, a simple test using a printed test
    sheet and a tripod will put the issue to rest.
     
    Brian C. Baird, Jun 10, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <GdQxc.5156$>, Jimmy Smith
    <> wrote:

    > I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    > owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    > people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >
    > Who has (had) it here?


    Got mine last May and it's tack sharp. Disabled all the AF points
    except the center and it works like a dream.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Jun 10, 2004
    #5
  6. Jimmy Smith

    John J Guest

    "Jimmy Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:GdQxc.5156$...
    > I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    > owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    > people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >
    > Who has (had) it here?
    >
    > Jimmy
    >
    >

    The camera is a piece of crap and any accurately focused images are purely
    coincidental, at least that has been my experience with the 10D. It is an
    amateur camera and is not at all sophisticated in it's focusing system,
    quite the opposite. The focusing screen is also quite poor so manual
    focusing is also not very accurate. I make these comparisons to an EOS 1V
    which I find to be the opposite and extremely accurate, but then the 1V is
    designed and built to a higher standard.
    JJ
     
    John J, Jun 10, 2004
    #6
  7. Jimmy Smith

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Jimmy Smith wrote:

    > I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    > owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    > people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?


    A while back a small group of people (or perhaps one person) flooded all the
    major Canon forums on the net with 'focus complaints'. He / they would subscribe
    to these groups under many names making the issue seem much worse than it really was.

    A small number of cameras actually did have a focus problem. That is a fact,
    but they were fixed under warranty. It was a real thing, but it was blown *far*
    out of proportion.

    This person/group gave up after a while and (not surprisingly) the "focus problem"
    seems to have vanished :) It's rarely brought up anymore.

    I have a 10D. I've had it a year.. It focuses just fine..
     
    Jim Townsend, Jun 10, 2004
    #7
  8. In article <ca8qmp$1nqt$>, John J
    <> wrote:

    > The camera is a piece of crap and any accurately focused images are purely
    > coincidental, at least that has been my experience with the 10D. It is an
    > amateur camera and is not at all sophisticated in it's focusing system,
    > quite the opposite. The focusing screen is also quite poor so manual
    > focusing is also not very accurate. I make these comparisons to an EOS 1V
    > which I find to be the opposite and extremely accurate, but then the 1V is
    > designed and built to a higher standard.


    As one who has used pretty much every brand of camera in 35mm and
    medium format for the past 30+ years...uh...you are the one full of
    crap.

    The 10D is well made and well designed. There is nothing wrong with
    the focusing system. The focusing screen, like all DSLRs is very fine
    and somewhat difficult to use for manual focusing. The days of split
    image and microprism screens is gone.
     
    Randall Ainsworth, Jun 10, 2004
    #8
  9. Jimmy Smith

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that "John J" <> stated that:

    >
    >"Jimmy Smith" <> wrote in message
    >news:GdQxc.5156$...
    >> I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    >> owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    >> people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >>
    >> Who has (had) it here?
    >>
    >> Jimmy
    >>
    >>

    >The camera is a piece of crap and any accurately focused images are purely
    >coincidental, at least that has been my experience with the 10D.


    Rubbish. Mine works perfectly, as do those of several other
    photographers I know. I haven't yet met someone who's had any focussing
    problems with the 10D.

    > It is an
    >amateur camera


    Then why do so many professionals own 10Ds?

    > and is not at all sophisticated in it's focusing system,
    >quite the opposite.


    It's famous for its ability to focus in poor light, & it's extremely
    fast in good lighting.

    > The focusing screen is also quite poor so manual
    >focusing is also not very accurate.


    Well, that part I agree with. I would really like to be able to change
    focussing screens in mine.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Jun 10, 2004
    #9
  10. Jimmy Smith

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that "Jimmy Smith" <> stated that:

    >I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    >owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    >people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >
    >Who has (had) it here?


    Not me. Mine works perfectly, & so do those of every other 10D user I've
    ever met (quite a few 10D users in my city).
    The only 'problem' I've ever run into is that the default setting of
    7-point auto-selection focus points is an inappropriate choice for most
    of my photography. IMO, locking to the centre-point only is much more
    useful for general photography.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Jun 10, 2004
    #10
  11. Jimmy Smith

    John J Guest

    > The days of split
    > image and microprism screens is gone.


    There's no microprism or split screen in a 1V either.
    JJ
     
    John J, Jun 10, 2004
    #11
  12. Jimmy Smith

    John J Guest

    > Rubbish. Mine works perfectly, as do those of several other
    > photographers I know. I haven't yet met someone who's had any focussing
    > problems with the 10D.
    >
    > > It is an
    > >amateur camera

    >
    > Then why do so many professionals own 10Ds?


    The same reason that I do, because it's good value for money.

    By the way, are you asserting that it is not an amateur camera? I would
    assert that little pictures of mountain ranges and flowers on the control
    dial are irrefutable proof that it is an amateur camera.

    > > and is not at all sophisticated in it's focusing system,
    > >quite the opposite.

    >
    > It's famous for its ability to focus in poor light, & it's extremely
    > fast in good lighting.


    I often use the 10D in very poor lighting and although it does cope fairly
    well when using only the central focusing point there is a significant
    difference in performance compared to the 1V. The 10D has trouble deciding
    what to focus on (when you allow it to select it's own focusing point) and
    as long as any of the focusing points find something to focus on it is
    happy. This often results in a distant rear wall, or whatever, in focus but
    the subject out of focus. The 1V on the other hand uses much better logic in
    determining which of several active points is the better choice. This
    difference in performance is evident day or night. I try to use a single
    focusing point on the 10D as much as possible to avoid this problem, I don't
    bother doing the same with the 1V because there is usually no need to.

    JJ
     
    John J, Jun 10, 2004
    #12
  13. Jimmy Smith

    Chris Brown Guest

    In article <GdQxc.5156$>,
    Jimmy Smith <> wrote:
    >I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    >owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    >people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?


    I have a very early 10D. Its autofocus has never given me any problems.
     
    Chris Brown, Jun 10, 2004
    #13
  14. Jimmy Smith

    Lionel Guest

    Kibo informs me that "John J" <> stated that:

    >> Rubbish. Mine works perfectly, as do those of several other
    >> photographers I know. I haven't yet met someone who's had any focussing
    >> problems with the 10D.
    >>
    >> > It is an
    >> >amateur camera

    >>
    >> Then why do so many professionals own 10Ds?

    >
    >The same reason that I do, because it's good value for money.
    >
    >By the way, are you asserting that it is not an amateur camera? I would
    >assert that little pictures of mountain ranges and flowers on the control
    >dial are irrefutable proof that it is an amateur camera.


    <grin> I have to admit to having quite a lot of sympathy for that
    particular argument. Still, it has a pro-quality metal frame, shoots RAW
    format, AdobeRGB 98, a very good AF system, a pro-quality image sensor,
    custom functions, etc. It may not be a high-end pro camera, but IMO, it
    still makes it over the bar.

    >> > and is not at all sophisticated in it's focusing system,
    >> >quite the opposite.

    >>
    >> It's famous for its ability to focus in poor light, & it's extremely
    >> fast in good lighting.

    >
    >I often use the 10D in very poor lighting and although it does cope fairly
    >well when using only the central focusing point there is a significant
    >difference in performance compared to the 1V. The 10D has trouble deciding
    >what to focus on (when you allow it to select it's own focusing point) and
    >as long as any of the focusing points find something to focus on it is
    >happy. This often results in a distant rear wall, or whatever, in focus but
    >the subject out of focus. The 1V on the other hand uses much better logic in
    >determining which of several active points is the better choice. This
    >difference in performance is evident day or night. I try to use a single
    >focusing point on the 10D as much as possible to avoid this problem, I don't
    >bother doing the same with the 1V because there is usually no need to.


    Well, the only time I find multi-point focus even slightly useful is
    when I'm shooting sports. For any other kind of photography, I use a
    focus-compose-shoot sequence, where I only need one AF sensor anyway.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Jun 10, 2004
    #14
  15. Randall Ainsworth <> writes:
    > The 10D is well made and well designed. There is nothing wrong with
    > the focusing system. The focusing screen, like all DSLRs is very
    > fine and somewhat difficult to use for manual focusing. The days of
    > split image and microprism screens is gone.


    Why?

    I.e. why is modern SLRs (including DSLRs) sold without such stable
    manual focusing aids as a split image or microprism.? These things
    used to be pretty standard in the «classic» SLR designs - and I
    remember that the split screen made accurate manual focusing very
    simple on my old Nikon F2.

    I am all for modern cameras and autofocus - but sometimes you still
    need to do it manually. So why was visual focusing aids not part
    of the the design of modern cameras?
    --
    - gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
    ========================================================================
    «To live outside the law, you must be honest.» (Bob Dylan)
     
    Gisle Hannemyr, Jun 10, 2004
    #15
  16. Jimmy Smith

    Paul Cassel Guest

    Jimmy Smith wrote:
    > I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be
    > in the owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated
    > for some people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it
    > rare?
    >

    My 10D will not focus on very soft objects as well as hard ones. For
    example, I have no focus issues with a car, but I may with a bale of hay.
    I've never had an AF camera before (come from the T90 / A1 film school) so
    am not sure if this is a defect. Anyway, I tend to focus manually all the
    time anyway. I view AF as an uneeded gadet.

    -paul
     
    Paul Cassel, Jun 10, 2004
    #16
  17. Jimmy Smith

    Paul Cassel Guest

    John J wrote:
    >
    > The same reason that I do, because it's good value for money.
    >
    > By the way, are you asserting that it is not an amateur camera? I
    > would assert that little pictures of mountain ranges and flowers on
    > the control dial are irrefutable proof that it is an amateur camera.
    >

    Hardly proof of anything other than Canon realized that first time buyers or
    graduates from P&S cameras who had a decent budget would bingo this camera.
    That it also has M, AV, TV indicate that it's NOT for newbies.

    A new Porsche has an image of a petrol pump in its gauge. Does that mean
    it's only meant for soccer moms?

    -paul
     
    Paul Cassel, Jun 10, 2004
    #17
  18. Jimmy Smith

    Jimmy Smith Guest

    "Paul Cassel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > John J wrote:
    > >
    > > The same reason that I do, because it's good value for money.
    > >
    > > By the way, are you asserting that it is not an amateur camera? I
    > > would assert that little pictures of mountain ranges and flowers on
    > > the control dial are irrefutable proof that it is an amateur camera.
    > >

    > Hardly proof of anything other than Canon realized that first time buyers

    or
    > graduates from P&S cameras who had a decent budget would bingo this

    camera.
    > That it also has M, AV, TV indicate that it's NOT for newbies.
    >
    > A new Porsche has an image of a petrol pump in its gauge. Does that mean
    > it's only meant for soccer moms?


    The Cayanne S is for soccer moms and they all drive it fast.

    Jimmy
    >
    > -paul
    >
    >
     
    Jimmy Smith, Jun 10, 2004
    #18
  19. Jimmy Smith

    Sorby Guest

    "Jimmy Smith" <> wrote in message
    news:GdQxc.5156$...
    > I hear the front focus or the back focus problem. Can this also be in the
    > owners head? Maybe the camera is just a bit too sophisticated for some
    > people or is there really a prevelant problem? Or is it rare?
    >
    > Who has (had) it here?


    My year-old 10D had the AF problem until it was fixed this week.

    I tested it myself recently using my EF50mm f/1.8 wide open shooting one of
    the well-known test-cards (positioned at 45 degrees) and found I could
    always focus it better manually than when relying on the AF.

    Since it was fixed I have retested and am now unable to better the AF
    manually.

    --
    Sorby
     
    Sorby, Jun 10, 2004
    #19
  20. "Gisle Hannemyr" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    []
    > I.e. why is modern SLRs (including DSLRs) sold without such stable
    > manual focusing aids as a split image or microprism.?

    []

    Good question - I can think of two reasons:

    - to save a penny or two on production cost

    - to avoid the need to explain it all in the manual, i.e. dumbing down.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jun 10, 2004
    #20
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