How does a gas fridge work ?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Andrew, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    where does it burn ?
    Andrew, Nov 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. Andrew

    Plato Guest

    Andrew wrote:
    >
    > where does it burn ?


    I've seen ads for propane fridges. My guess is that the propane [gas]
    just powers an electric generator which then powers the compressor. Sort
    of like the way a portable electric generator which runs on car gas like
    a lawn mower powers up a generator which you can then use the power to
    run any appliance.
    Plato, Nov 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. Andrew

    Mike Easter Guest

    Mike Easter, Nov 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Andrew

    olfart Guest

    "Andrew" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > where does it burn ?


    In a gas fridge a different coolant is used(not freon). There is no
    compressor. The coolant is heated and then goes through an exchanger which
    resultes in cooling. Used alot in RV's. Check Google for more accurate
    details.
    olfart, Nov 2, 2005
    #4
  5. Andrew

    dadiOH Guest

    Andrew wrote:
    > where does it burn ?


    Inside it. Small flame like a gas hot water pilot.

    They and many other things work because of "heat of conversion". For
    example, both boiling water and uncompressed steam have a temperature of
    212 F. When boiling water absorbs a bit more energy the state changes
    from liquid to gas. Conversely, going from a higher to lower state
    gives off heat.

    Solid>liquid>gas requires heat
    Gas>liquid>solid gives off heat


    --
    dadiOH
    ____________________________

    dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
    ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
    LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
    Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
    dadiOH, Nov 2, 2005
    #5
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 23:04:11 GMT, fkasner <>
    wrote:

    >Andrew wrote:
    >> where does it burn ?

    >
    >Probably the same way the very much older refrigerators worked. They
    >used a cooling gas that was ammonia dissolved in water. There were not
    >moving parts. The gas flame heated the water solution of the ammonia
    >which then circulated as a gas through a system where it expanded and
    >thus cooled. The gas was then dissolved in the water and the process
    >operated repeatedly. This cooled the contents of the refigerator. The
    >heat that was produced by the gas flame was "dumped" into the room in
    >which the gas refrigerator was located. I doubt that the refrigerant
    >used today is ammonia. Too often it would leak and drive you out of the
    >room.
    >
    >Other alternative is that the burning gas drives a generator that
    >produces electricity that drives an electric refrigerator. This type of
    >device is commonly used as a emergency backup electricity system to keep
    >a house working when the power goes out.
    >
    >FK


    NICE ONE... TWO ANSWERS... you're not sure either then huh ?
    Andrew, Nov 2, 2005
    #6
  7. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 03:13:04 GMT, Mitch <> wrote:

    >In article <>, Andrew
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:10:49 -0800, "Mike Easter" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Andrew wrote:
    >> >> where does it burn ?
    >> >
    >> >In the 'generator'.
    >> >
    >> >Here's a good word picture
    >> >http://www.otal.umd.edu/~vg/amst205.F97/vj09/project5.html The Gas
    >> >Model Refrigerator
    >> >
    >> >Here's a good illustration at a separate site
    >> >http://www.rvmobile.com/TECH/TROUBLE/coolunit.htm Cooling Unit (How it
    >> >works)

    >>
    >> so why not gas TVs then ?
    >>

    >Hmm.
    >Because televisions don't work by cooling or heating a fluid?


    Battery operated tvs run by a ph imbalance !

    >Because electricity is easier to apply to many separate and portable
    >appliances?

    exactly how is electricity easier to transport than gas.... each has
    its pros and cons surely....
    >Because refrigerators don't have to operate continuously, and TVs
    >usually stay on for hours?


    Aint it the other way round ?... fridges work continuously (albeit
    intermittently by a thermostat) and TVs only stay on for hours..?..
    I imagine you and friends eating rotten yoghurt around never ending
    reruns of "Bonanza" !....
    Andrew, Nov 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Andrew

    Pat Guest

    Pat, Nov 3, 2005
    #8
  9. Andrew

    dadiOH Guest

    Andrew wrote:
    > On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:39:39 GMT, "dadiOH" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Andrew wrote:
    >>> where does it burn ?

    >>
    >> Inside it. Small flame like a gas hot water pilot.
    >>
    >> They and many other things work because of "heat of conversion". For
    >> example, both boiling water and uncompressed steam have a
    >> temperature of 212 F. When boiling water absorbs a bit more energy
    >> the state changes from liquid to gas. Conversely, going from a
    >> higher to lower state gives off heat.
    >>
    >> Solid>liquid>gas requires heat
    >> Gas>liquid>solid gives off heat

    >
    > yeah... iget the exo/endothermic thing..
    > but where is the flame ?.. is it tiny ?...


    As I said, inside it. Small flame like a gas hot water pilot.

    --
    dadiOH
    ____________________________

    dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
    ....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
    LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
    Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
    dadiOH, Nov 3, 2005
    #9
  10. Andrew

    Buffalo Guest

    Buffalo, Nov 3, 2005
    #10
  11. Andrew

    Trax Guest

    Trax, Nov 3, 2005
    #11
  12. Andrew

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2005-11-02, fkasner <> wrote:
    > Andrew wrote:
    >> where does it burn ?

    >
    > Probably the same way the very much older refrigerators worked. They
    > used a cooling gas that was ammonia dissolved in water. There were not
    > moving parts. The gas flame heated the water solution of the ammonia
    > which then circulated as a gas through a system where it expanded and
    > thus cooled. The gas was then dissolved in the water and the process
    > operated repeatedly. This cooled the contents of the refigerator. The
    > heat that was produced by the gas flame was "dumped" into the room in
    > which the gas refrigerator was located. I doubt that the refrigerant
    > used today is ammonia. Too often it would leak and drive you out of the
    > room.


    My electric fridge (circa 1972) works on this principle. Totally silent,
    utterly reliable - no moving parts :)) I don't know what the refrigerant
    is - it has never leaked. The radiator on the back gets fairly hot, which
    suggests that the system is not as fuel-efficient as the compressor type,
    at least when running on electricity.

    The last new gas fridge in my family was bought in the mid 1950s, but there
    is still a small market for them.

    Dual-fuel fridges that work on gas when stationary but from a car battery
    on the move, presumably have electric heating coils and gas burners to
    provide the energy input.

    I've heard of paraffin [kerosene] being used as fuel for these 'absorption'
    refrigerators. <http://www.gasrefrigerators.com/faq.htm>.

    > Other alternative is that the burning gas drives a generator that
    > produces electricity that drives an electric refrigerator. This type of
    > device is commonly used as a emergency backup electricity system to keep
    > a house working when the power goes out.
    >
    > FK


    That sounds rather complex for a domestic refrigerator, although it may be
    effective for an industrial freezer that has no mains electricity supply.
    The difficulty would be in getting feedback from the thermostat to regulate
    the operation of the generator (which would only be required to run
    sporadically).

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Nov 3, 2005
    #12
  13. On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:54:57 +0000, Whiskers <>
    wrote:

    >On 2005-11-02, fkasner <> wrote:
    >> Andrew wrote:
    >>> where does it burn ?

    >>
    >> Probably the same way the very much older refrigerators worked. They
    >> used a cooling gas that was ammonia dissolved in water. There were not
    >> moving parts. The gas flame heated the water solution of the ammonia
    >> which then circulated as a gas through a system where it expanded and
    >> thus cooled. The gas was then dissolved in the water and the process
    >> operated repeatedly. This cooled the contents of the refigerator. The
    >> heat that was produced by the gas flame was "dumped" into the room in
    >> which the gas refrigerator was located. I doubt that the refrigerant
    >> used today is ammonia. Too often it would leak and drive you out of the
    >> room.

    >
    >I've heard of paraffin [kerosene] being used as fuel for these 'absorption'
    >refrigerators. <http://www.gasrefrigerators.com/faq.htm>.


    Back in 1970 - 1980 or so, I used an old "Log Cabin" situated in the
    Australian Bush (until it was burned down in a bush fire). The Log
    Cabin had no power and was equipped with kerosene lamps and a kerosene
    fridge that did a superb job of keeping the goodies nice and cold. I
    can't remember the amount of kerosene its tank held but once the tank
    was filled the fridge usually kept cold for about 1 week.
    --

    John
    John Morrison, Nov 3, 2005
    #13
  14. Andrew

    clot Guest

    John Morrison wrote:
    > On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:54:57 +0000, Whiskers <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 2005-11-02, fkasner <> wrote:
    >>> Andrew wrote:
    >>>> where does it burn ?
    >>>
    >>> Probably the same way the very much older refrigerators worked. They
    >>> used a cooling gas that was ammonia dissolved in water. There were
    >>> not moving parts. The gas flame heated the water solution of the
    >>> ammonia which then circulated as a gas through a system where it
    >>> expanded and thus cooled. The gas was then dissolved in the water
    >>> and the process operated repeatedly. This cooled the contents of
    >>> the refigerator. The heat that was produced by the gas flame was
    >>> "dumped" into the room in which the gas refrigerator was located. I
    >>> doubt that the refrigerant used today is ammonia. Too often it
    >>> would leak and drive you out of the room.

    >>
    >> I've heard of paraffin [kerosene] being used as fuel for these
    >> 'absorption' refrigerators.
    >> <http://www.gasrefrigerators.com/faq.htm>.

    >
    > Back in 1970 - 1980 or so, I used an old "Log Cabin" situated in the
    > Australian Bush (until it was burned down in a bush fire). The Log
    > Cabin had no power and was equipped with kerosene lamps and a kerosene
    > fridge that did a superb job of keeping the goodies nice and cold. I
    > can't remember the amount of kerosene its tank held but once the tank
    > was filled the fridge usually kept cold for about 1 week.


    Ballpark size? A gallon?
    clot, Nov 4, 2005
    #14
  15. On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:04:56 GMT, "clot" <> wrote:

    >John Morrison wrote:
    >> On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:54:57 +0000, Whiskers <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 2005-11-02, fkasner <> wrote:
    >>>> Andrew wrote:
    >>>>> where does it burn ?
    >>>>
    >>>> Probably the same way the very much older refrigerators worked. They
    >>>> used a cooling gas that was ammonia dissolved in water. There were
    >>>> not moving parts. The gas flame heated the water solution of the
    >>>> ammonia which then circulated as a gas through a system where it
    >>>> expanded and thus cooled. The gas was then dissolved in the water
    >>>> and the process operated repeatedly. This cooled the contents of
    >>>> the refigerator. The heat that was produced by the gas flame was
    >>>> "dumped" into the room in which the gas refrigerator was located. I
    >>>> doubt that the refrigerant used today is ammonia. Too often it
    >>>> would leak and drive you out of the room.
    >>>
    >>> I've heard of paraffin [kerosene] being used as fuel for these
    >>> 'absorption' refrigerators.
    >>> <http://www.gasrefrigerators.com/faq.htm>.

    >>
    >> Back in 1970 - 1980 or so, I used an old "Log Cabin" situated in the
    >> Australian Bush (until it was burned down in a bush fire). The Log
    >> Cabin had no power and was equipped with kerosene lamps and a kerosene
    >> fridge that did a superb job of keeping the goodies nice and cold. I
    >> can't remember the amount of kerosene its tank held but once the tank
    >> was filled the fridge usually kept cold for about 1 week.

    >
    >Ballpark size? A gallon?


    I reckon it was probably 2-3 gallons.
    --

    John
    John Morrison, Nov 4, 2005
    #15
  16. Andrew

    clot Guest

    John Morrison wrote:
    > On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 00:04:56 GMT, "clot" <> wrote:
    >
    >> John Morrison wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 20:54:57 +0000, Whiskers
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On 2005-11-02, fkasner <> wrote:
    >>>>> Andrew wrote:
    >>>>>> where does it burn ?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Probably the same way the very much older refrigerators worked.
    >>>>> They used a cooling gas that was ammonia dissolved in water.
    >>>>> There were not moving parts. The gas flame heated the water
    >>>>> solution of the ammonia which then circulated as a gas through a
    >>>>> system where it expanded and thus cooled. The gas was then
    >>>>> dissolved in the water and the process operated repeatedly. This
    >>>>> cooled the contents of the refigerator. The heat that was
    >>>>> produced by the gas flame was "dumped" into the room in which the
    >>>>> gas refrigerator was located. I doubt that the refrigerant used
    >>>>> today is ammonia. Too often it would leak and drive you out of
    >>>>> the room.
    >>>>
    >>>> I've heard of paraffin [kerosene] being used as fuel for these
    >>>> 'absorption' refrigerators.
    >>>> <http://www.gasrefrigerators.com/faq.htm>.
    >>>
    >>> Back in 1970 - 1980 or so, I used an old "Log Cabin" situated in
    >>> the Australian Bush (until it was burned down in a bush fire). The
    >>> Log Cabin had no power and was equipped with kerosene lamps and a
    >>> kerosene fridge that did a superb job of keeping the goodies nice
    >>> and cold. I can't remember the amount of kerosene its tank held but
    >>> once the tank was filled the fridge usually kept cold for about 1
    >>> week.

    >>
    >> Ballpark size? A gallon?

    >
    > I reckon it was probably 2-3 gallons.


    Thanks for that. I was just curious, I've no present reason to use this
    knowledge but wondered how much it might use.
    clot, Nov 4, 2005
    #16
  17. Andrew

    benreddick

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    why can't we use waste heat to run the fridge instead of gas?

    Hi, This has been bugging me ever since i heard about fridges that use heat to convert the state of a liquid, thereby producing a cooling effect.

    Dadio says

    "They <gas fridges> and many other things work because of "heat of conversion". For
    example, both boiling water and uncompressed steam have a temperature of
    212 F. When boiling water absorbs a bit more energy the state changes
    from liquid to gas. Conversely, going from a higher to lower state
    gives off heat.

    Solid>liquid>gas requires heat
    Gas>liquid>solid gives off heat"

    Ok, Now fridges and A/c units take heat out of food / the air and dump it outside. Why cant that heat be chanelled back into the system so that it converts more of the liquid from one state to another, producing more cooling?

    I know theres not such thing as perpetual motion, but i cant see why this wouldnt at least use some of the waste heat instead of generating it by burning propane.

    Any ideas?


    BenR
    benreddick, Sep 26, 2008
    #17
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