How do I share my adsl line to 2 routers ?

Discussion in 'Wireless Networking' started by RJK, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. RJK

    RJK Guest

    I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've been
    digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!

    The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be flexible
    enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox adsl/modem/router+wireless g
    with WEP/WPA because the inadequate firmware in the router seems to have
    been purposely designed to keep anything that looks remotely technical
    hidden form the user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't
    easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live box with
    those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in the
    house, because in the Orange firmware they're simply not made available, or
    called something else ! Even the firewall has four novice "level" settings
    instead of proper controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    manufacturers give different names and labels to the same things! I have to
    "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in Dads' PC - fortunately
    there are more comprehensive and flexible settings in the Linksys pci card
    software. Also, some sort of design fault in the Orange Livebox means that
    people who have one, can no longer access their free Orange webspace,
    (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into it). Not that I ever
    use my website for much but, I like to try and have a short practice every
    few weeks. ....I digress....

    The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs the
    adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs an
    ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP 'phone calls
    that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course not present
    on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I want to
    keep and use.
    ....so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP 'phone call
    facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband sent to my
    PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I use DECT
    digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into the house).

    .....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I need to
    buy ?

    regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Jan 5, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Hi
    In order to split between two Routers you need an ISP account that allows
    two independent external IPs.
    You then connect a switch to the Modem, plug the two Routers to the switch
    and each Router gets its own WAN IP.
    Otherwise you can try to disable the Wireless on you current device, buy a
    Good Wireless Router and use it as an Access Point.
    http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    Or create a segregated Network for the Wireless,
    http://www.ezlan.net/shield.html
    Jack (MVP-Networking).

    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:eFXnY%...
    >I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've been
    >digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    >something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >
    > The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be flexible
    > enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox adsl/modem/router+wireless g
    > with WEP/WPA because the inadequate firmware in the router seems to have
    > been purposely designed to keep anything that looks remotely technical
    > hidden form the user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I
    > can't easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live box
    > with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in
    > the house, because in the Orange firmware they're simply not made
    > available, or called something else ! Even the firewall has four novice
    > "level" settings instead of proper controls like in the Linksys, and it
    > seems that different manufacturers give different names and labels to the
    > same things! I have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in
    > Dads' PC - fortunately there are more comprehensive and flexible settings
    > in the Linksys pci card software. Also, some sort of design fault in the
    > Orange Livebox means that people who have one, can no longer access their
    > free Orange webspace, (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into
    > it). Not that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and have
    > a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >
    > The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs the
    > adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs an
    > ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP 'phone calls
    > that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course not
    > present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I
    > want to keep and use.
    > ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP 'phone
    > call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband
    > sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I
    > use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into
    > the house).
    >
    > ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I need
    > to buy ?
    >
    > regards, Richard
     
    Jack \(MVP-Networking\)., Jan 5, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "RJK" <> wrote in
    news:eFXnY#:

    > I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers !
    > I've been digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch"
    > that somehow shares something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much
    > I've learnt !!!
    >
    > The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to
    > be flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    > adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    > firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to
    > keep anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the
    > user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't
    > easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live
    > box with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's
    > in Dad's PC in the house, because in the Orange firmware they're
    > simply not made available, or called something else ! Even the
    > firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of proper
    > controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    > manufacturers give different names and labels to the same
    > things! I have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings
    > on in Dads' PC - fortunately there are more comprehensive and
    > flexible settings in the Linksys pci card software. Also, some
    > sort of design fault in the Orange Livebox means that people who
    > have one, can no longer access their free Orange webspace,
    > (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into it). Not
    > that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and have
    > a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >
    > The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one
    > plugs the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into
    > which one plugs an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the
    > free Orange VOIP 'phone calls that start with 01 or 02 , a
    > hardware facility that is of course not present on my Linksys
    > WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I want to
    > keep and use. ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use
    > the free VOIP 'phone call facility on the Orange Live box, and
    > use my Linksys for broadband sent to my PC on rj45 lead and
    > wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I use DECT digital
    > cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into the
    > house).
    >
    > ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what
    > else I need to buy ?
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >


    Disable WiFi on the Orange Livebox.
    Disable DHCP on the Linksys WAG354G.
    Connect a UTP patch cable between the two.

    That way you are using the Livebox as the broadband router and VOIP
    gateway, and the WAG354G as a WiFi access point/Ethernet switch,
    with no special ISP account or equipment needed.
     
    Frazer Jolly Goodfellow, Jan 5, 2007
    #3
  4. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Thanks Jack,

    I'll be "having a go" at this soon :)

    regards, Richard


    "Jack (MVP-Networking)." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi
    > In order to split between two Routers you need an ISP account that allows
    > two independent external IPs.
    > You then connect a switch to the Modem, plug the two Routers to the switch
    > and each Router gets its own WAN IP.
    > Otherwise you can try to disable the Wireless on you current device, buy a
    > Good Wireless Router and use it as an Access Point.
    > http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    > Or create a segregated Network for the Wireless,
    > http://www.ezlan.net/shield.html
    > Jack (MVP-Networking).
    >
    > "RJK" <> wrote in message
    > news:eFXnY%...
    >>I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've been
    >>digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    >>something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >>
    >> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be
    >> flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate firmware
    >> in the router seems to have been purposely designed to keep anything that
    >> looks remotely technical hidden form the user, e.g. I can't select AES
    >> over TKIP in it etc. I can't easily match the "master" wireless settings
    >> in the Orange Live box with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g
    >> card, that's in Dad's PC in the house, because in the Orange firmware
    >> they're simply not made available, or called something else ! Even the
    >> firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of proper controls like
    >> in the Linksys, and it seems that different manufacturers give different
    >> names and labels to the same things! I have to "trial and error" to
    >> match wireless settings on in Dads' PC - fortunately there are more
    >> comprehensive and flexible settings in the Linksys pci card software.
    >> Also, some sort of design fault in the Orange Livebox means that people
    >> who have one, can no longer access their free Orange webspace, (they're
    >> aware of this and claim to be looking into it). Not that I ever use my
    >> website for much but, I like to try and have a short practice every few
    >> weeks. ....I digress....
    >>
    >> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs the
    >> adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs an
    >> ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP 'phone
    >> calls that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course
    >> not present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one
    >> that I want to keep and use.
    >> ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP 'phone
    >> call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband
    >> sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I
    >> use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into
    >> the house).
    >>
    >> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I need
    >> to buy ?
    >>
    >> regards, Richard

    >
    >
     
    RJK, Jan 5, 2007
    #4
  5. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Thanks "Frazer,"

    I think I see what you mean ;-)

    I'm guessing that I have to use cross-over lan lead, ...and that I have to
    change one of the Gateway addresses, they're both 192.168.1.1 atm.
    ....this all seems a bit similar to http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html that
    Jack hyperlinked me on this thread !

    ....I've never got grips with networking in 25+years working on micros !
    ....always avoided networks.

    ....I suspect I'm in for some fun with this attempt.

    regards, Richard


    "Frazer Jolly Goodfellow" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns98AFD04497E42frz@80.5.182.99...
    > "RJK" <> wrote in
    > news:eFXnY#:
    >
    >> I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers !
    >> I've been digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch"
    >> that somehow shares something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much
    >> I've learnt !!!
    >>
    >> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to
    >> be flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    >> firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to
    >> keep anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the
    >> user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't
    >> easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live
    >> box with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's
    >> in Dad's PC in the house, because in the Orange firmware they're
    >> simply not made available, or called something else ! Even the
    >> firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of proper
    >> controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    >> manufacturers give different names and labels to the same
    >> things! I have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings
    >> on in Dads' PC - fortunately there are more comprehensive and
    >> flexible settings in the Linksys pci card software. Also, some
    >> sort of design fault in the Orange Livebox means that people who
    >> have one, can no longer access their free Orange webspace,
    >> (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into it). Not
    >> that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and have
    >> a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >>
    >> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one
    >> plugs the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into
    >> which one plugs an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the
    >> free Orange VOIP 'phone calls that start with 01 or 02 , a
    >> hardware facility that is of course not present on my Linksys
    >> WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I want to
    >> keep and use. ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use
    >> the free VOIP 'phone call facility on the Orange Live box, and
    >> use my Linksys for broadband sent to my PC on rj45 lead and
    >> wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I use DECT digital
    >> cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into the
    >> house).
    >>
    >> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what
    >> else I need to buy ?
    >>
    >> regards, Richard
    >>

    >
    > Disable WiFi on the Orange Livebox.
    > Disable DHCP on the Linksys WAG354G.
    > Connect a UTP patch cable between the two.
    >
    > That way you are using the Livebox as the broadband router and VOIP
    > gateway, and the WAG354G as a WiFi access point/Ethernet switch,
    > with no special ISP account or equipment needed.
     
    RJK, Jan 5, 2007
    #5
  6. RJK

    Lem Guest

    RJK wrote:
    > Thanks "Frazer,"
    >
    > I think I see what you mean ;-)
    >
    > I'm guessing that I have to use cross-over lan lead, ...and that I have
    > to change one of the Gateway addresses, they're both 192.168.1.1 atm.
    > ...this all seems a bit similar to http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    > that Jack hyperlinked me on this thread !
    >
    > ...I've never got grips with networking in 25+years working on micros !
    > ...always avoided networks.
    >
    > ...I suspect I'm in for some fun with this attempt.
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >
    >
    > "Frazer Jolly Goodfellow" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns98AFD04497E42frz@80.5.182.99...
    >> "RJK" <> wrote in
    >> news:eFXnY#:
    >>
    >>> I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers !
    >>> I've been digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch"
    >>> that somehow shares something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much
    >>> I've learnt !!!
    >>>
    >>> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to
    >>> be flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >>> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    >>> firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to
    >>> keep anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the
    >>> user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't
    >>> easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live
    >>> box with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's
    >>> in Dad's PC in the house, because in the Orange firmware they're
    >>> simply not made available, or called something else ! Even the
    >>> firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of proper
    >>> controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    >>> manufacturers give different names and labels to the same
    >>> things! I have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings
    >>> on in Dads' PC - fortunately there are more comprehensive and
    >>> flexible settings in the Linksys pci card software. Also, some
    >>> sort of design fault in the Orange Livebox means that people who
    >>> have one, can no longer access their free Orange webspace,
    >>> (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into it). Not
    >>> that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and have
    >>> a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >>>
    >>> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one
    >>> plugs the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into
    >>> which one plugs an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the
    >>> free Orange VOIP 'phone calls that start with 01 or 02 , a
    >>> hardware facility that is of course not present on my Linksys
    >>> WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I want to
    >>> keep and use. ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use
    >>> the free VOIP 'phone call facility on the Orange Live box, and
    >>> use my Linksys for broadband sent to my PC on rj45 lead and
    >>> wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I use DECT digital
    >>> cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into the
    >>> house).
    >>>
    >>> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what
    >>> else I need to buy ?
    >>>
    >>> regards, Richard
    >>>

    >>
    >> Disable WiFi on the Orange Livebox.
    >> Disable DHCP on the Linksys WAG354G.
    >> Connect a UTP patch cable between the two.
    >>
    >> That way you are using the Livebox as the broadband router and VOIP
    >> gateway, and the WAG354G as a WiFi access point/Ethernet switch,
    >> with no special ISP account or equipment needed.

    >


    Check the specs for the Linksys device. Many of them have "Auto-Cross
    Over (MDI/MDI-X)" ports so you may not actually need a cross-over cable.

    --
    Lem MS MVP -- Networking

    To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
     
    Lem, Jan 5, 2007
    #6
  7. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Thanx LEM, will bear that in mind.
    I'm looking forwards to this, too tired to get on and tackle it now, will
    try tommorrow,

    regards, Richard


    "Lem" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > RJK wrote:
    >> Thanks "Frazer,"
    >>
    >> I think I see what you mean ;-)
    >>
    >> I'm guessing that I have to use cross-over lan lead, ...and that I have
    >> to change one of the Gateway addresses, they're both 192.168.1.1 atm.
    >> ...this all seems a bit similar to http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    >> that Jack hyperlinked me on this thread !
    >>
    >> ...I've never got grips with networking in 25+years working on micros !
    >> ...always avoided networks.
    >>
    >> ...I suspect I'm in for some fun with this attempt.
    >>
    >> regards, Richard
    >>
    >>
    >> "Frazer Jolly Goodfellow" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns98AFD04497E42frz@80.5.182.99...
    >>> "RJK" <> wrote in
    >>> news:eFXnY#:
    >>>
    >>>> I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers !
    >>>> I've been digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch"
    >>>> that somehow shares something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much
    >>>> I've learnt !!!
    >>>>
    >>>> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to
    >>>> be flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >>>> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    >>>> firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to
    >>>> keep anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the
    >>>> user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't
    >>>> easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live
    >>>> box with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's
    >>>> in Dad's PC in the house, because in the Orange firmware they're
    >>>> simply not made available, or called something else ! Even the
    >>>> firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of proper
    >>>> controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    >>>> manufacturers give different names and labels to the same
    >>>> things! I have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings
    >>>> on in Dads' PC - fortunately there are more comprehensive and
    >>>> flexible settings in the Linksys pci card software. Also, some
    >>>> sort of design fault in the Orange Livebox means that people who
    >>>> have one, can no longer access their free Orange webspace,
    >>>> (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into it). Not
    >>>> that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and have
    >>>> a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >>>>
    >>>> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one
    >>>> plugs the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into
    >>>> which one plugs an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the
    >>>> free Orange VOIP 'phone calls that start with 01 or 02 , a
    >>>> hardware facility that is of course not present on my Linksys
    >>>> WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I want to
    >>>> keep and use. ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use
    >>>> the free VOIP 'phone call facility on the Orange Live box, and
    >>>> use my Linksys for broadband sent to my PC on rj45 lead and
    >>>> wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I use DECT digital
    >>>> cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into the
    >>>> house).
    >>>>
    >>>> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what
    >>>> else I need to buy ?
    >>>>
    >>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Disable WiFi on the Orange Livebox.
    >>> Disable DHCP on the Linksys WAG354G.
    >>> Connect a UTP patch cable between the two.
    >>>
    >>> That way you are using the Livebox as the broadband router and VOIP
    >>> gateway, and the WAG354G as a WiFi access point/Ethernet switch,
    >>> with no special ISP account or equipment needed.

    >>

    >
    > Check the specs for the Linksys device. Many of them have "Auto-Cross Over
    > (MDI/MDI-X)" ports so you may not actually need a cross-over cable.
    >
    > --
    > Lem MS MVP -- Networking
    >
    > To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
     
    RJK, Jan 5, 2007
    #7
  8. "RJK" <> wrote in
    news::

    > I'm guessing that I have to use cross-over lan lead,

    .... Yes, but auto-sensing is very common these days

    > I have to change one of the Gateway addresses, they're both
    > 192.168.1.1 atm.

    .... You'll need to disable the gateway function in the Linksys, e.g.
    by choosing an address in a different subnet.


    Phone socket
    |
    Splitter
    | | WAG354G
    | |____LiveBox_____| |____PCs, wired or wireless
    | |
    | |__VOIP phone(s)
    |
    |__Analogue phone(s)
     
    Frazer Jolly Goodfellow, Jan 5, 2007
    #8
  9. RJK

    David Hettel Guest

    You may also want to take a look at this page of Jacks;
    http://www.ezlan.net/shield.html and this diagram
    http://www.ezlan.net/network/shield.jpg your livebox would be the "Front"
    Router in this diagram, your Linksys would be the Shield Router. You would
    need to change the DHCP server settings of the WAG354G to use a different
    IP space than the livebox, say 10.0.0.1 or any thing so both routers are not
    using the same IP space 192.168.1.1. Or you could move the WAG354G to
    192.168.2.1

    I would suggest that if you try this, you set the livebox to pass everything
    to the WAG354G, by putting the WAG354G in the demilitarized zone, or set it
    to play online games.

    --
    David Hettel

    Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone
    to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in
    E-mail or news groups.

    Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

    DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
    either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
    or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
    indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or
    inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and confers
    no rights.



    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:eFXnY%...
    >I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've been
    >digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    >something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >
    > The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be flexible
    > enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox adsl/modem/router+wireless g
    > with WEP/WPA because the inadequate firmware in the router seems to have
    > been purposely designed to keep anything that looks remotely technical
    > hidden form the user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I
    > can't easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live box
    > with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in
    > the house, because in the Orange firmware they're simply not made
    > available, or called something else ! Even the firewall has four novice
    > "level" settings instead of proper controls like in the Linksys, and it
    > seems that different manufacturers give different names and labels to the
    > same things! I have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in
    > Dads' PC - fortunately there are more comprehensive and flexible settings
    > in the Linksys pci card software. Also, some sort of design fault in the
    > Orange Livebox means that people who have one, can no longer access their
    > free Orange webspace, (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into
    > it). Not that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and have
    > a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >
    > The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs the
    > adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs an
    > ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP 'phone calls
    > that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course not
    > present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I
    > want to keep and use.
    > ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP 'phone
    > call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband
    > sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I
    > use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into
    > the house).
    >
    > ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I need
    > to buy ?
    >
    > regards, Richard
     
    David Hettel, Jan 6, 2007
    #9
  10. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Well, thanks to all for your reponses and help.
    I'm trying to picture all this in my head, to try and "picture" what goes
    where, before having a go !
    ....and in what best order to do it
    The theoretical scenario, (the more I ponder on it), raise lots more
    questions in my head !

    adsl lead stays or "ends up" plugged into Livebox where it is atm.
    Linksys will eventually be 2nd in the "chain", connected to Livebox by
    ethernet crossover, (or 'autosensed' straight through rj45 lead etc.).
    I obviously have to access Linksys and change its' Gateway IP address to
    something other than 192.168.1.1 e.g. 192.168.1.2
    Livebox will have a demilitarized IP address set in it, ...which is the new
    Gatway address of the Linksys ?, ...which must be different than the default
    192.168.1.1 that's in both of them ?
    ....wireless is switched off in Livebox, ...DHCP is off in Linksys but, stays
    on in Livebox ? ...I don't understand that, feels like it should be the
    other way around !

    Anyway, here's my guestimated procedure sequence ! :)

    Livebox currently connected, so switch off wireless in Livebox settings.
    Yank firewall down to Low, (Livebox menu says "to be able to set a
    demilitarized zone, first set firewall to Low..." or something like that).
    So, put 192.168.1.2 into demilitarized zone, and yank firewall back to
    Medium, ( I hate these Livebox menus !) ...or will that cause problems,
    ....or will the Linksys NAT firewall cover everything ?

    Connect Linksys and change it's Gateway address from 192.168.1.1 to
    something else e.g. 192.168.1.2,
    and switch off DHCP. (....so how will Dads' WMP54G get it's IP address from
    WAG354G with no DHCP ? , or will this cuase me to have to make manual
    settings in WMP54G software - I don't think it's that flexible !)

    ....but reading through your posts, I've got the suspicion that I'm going to
    end up with two ranges of IP addresses, one range in Livebox, and another
    range in Linksys that conflict ?

    ....have to go away and make a cup of coffee now b4 destroying it all !

    regards, Richard


    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:eFXnY%...
    >I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've been
    >digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    >something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >
    > The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be flexible
    > enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox adsl/modem/router+wireless g
    > with WEP/WPA because the inadequate firmware in the router seems to have
    > been purposely designed to keep anything that looks remotely technical
    > hidden form the user, e.g. I can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I
    > can't easily match the "master" wireless settings in the Orange Live box
    > with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in
    > the house, because in the Orange firmware they're simply not made
    > available, or called something else ! Even the firewall has four novice
    > "level" settings instead of proper controls like in the Linksys, and it
    > seems that different manufacturers give different names and labels to the
    > same things! I have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in
    > Dads' PC - fortunately there are more comprehensive and flexible settings
    > in the Linksys pci card software. Also, some sort of design fault in the
    > Orange Livebox means that people who have one, can no longer access their
    > free Orange webspace, (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into
    > it). Not that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and have
    > a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >
    > The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs the
    > adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs an
    > ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP 'phone calls
    > that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course not
    > present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one that I
    > want to keep and use.
    > ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP 'phone
    > call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband
    > sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I
    > use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into
    > the house).
    >
    > ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I need
    > to buy ?
    >
    > regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #10
  11. RJK

    RJK Guest

    ...tho' looking at
    quoted from http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

    "
    Example:
    - Main Router's base address is 192.168.1.1, with a DHCP server range of
    192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 (is this my Livebox?)
    - Set the Cable/DSL Router to (the one you're using as an Access Point) base
    address to any IP address between 192.168.1.151 to 192.168.1.250 (is this my
    Linksys?)
    Second Step: Switch Off the DHCP on the Wireless Cable/DSL Router, and set
    to Off any filters or special settings that is On if it is used as the main
    Router.
    "
    <grin>

    regards, Richard


    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Well, thanks to all for your reponses and help.
    > I'm trying to picture all this in my head, to try and "picture" what goes
    > where, before having a go !
    > ...and in what best order to do it
    > The theoretical scenario, (the more I ponder on it), raise lots more
    > questions in my head !
    >
    > adsl lead stays or "ends up" plugged into Livebox where it is atm.
    > Linksys will eventually be 2nd in the "chain", connected to Livebox by
    > ethernet crossover, (or 'autosensed' straight through rj45 lead etc.).
    > I obviously have to access Linksys and change its' Gateway IP address to
    > something other than 192.168.1.1 e.g. 192.168.1.2
    > Livebox will have a demilitarized IP address set in it, ...which is the
    > new Gatway address of the Linksys ?, ...which must be different than the
    > default 192.168.1.1 that's in both of them ?
    > ...wireless is switched off in Livebox, ...DHCP is off in Linksys but,
    > stays on in Livebox ? ...I don't understand that, feels like it should be
    > the other way around !
    >
    > Anyway, here's my guestimated procedure sequence ! :)
    >
    > Livebox currently connected, so switch off wireless in Livebox settings.
    > Yank firewall down to Low, (Livebox menu says "to be able to set a
    > demilitarized zone, first set firewall to Low..." or something like that).
    > So, put 192.168.1.2 into demilitarized zone, and yank firewall back to
    > Medium, ( I hate these Livebox menus !) ...or will that cause problems,
    > ...or will the Linksys NAT firewall cover everything ?
    >
    > Connect Linksys and change it's Gateway address from 192.168.1.1 to
    > something else e.g. 192.168.1.2,
    > and switch off DHCP. (....so how will Dads' WMP54G get it's IP address
    > from WAG354G with no DHCP ? , or will this cuase me to have to make
    > manual settings in WMP54G software - I don't think it's that flexible !)
    >
    > ...but reading through your posts, I've got the suspicion that I'm going
    > to end up with two ranges of IP addresses, one range in Livebox, and
    > another range in Linksys that conflict ?
    >
    > ...have to go away and make a cup of coffee now b4 destroying it all !
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >
    >
    > "RJK" <> wrote in message
    > news:eFXnY%...
    >>I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've been
    >>digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    >>something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >>
    >> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be
    >> flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate firmware
    >> in the router seems to have been purposely designed to keep anything that
    >> looks remotely technical hidden form the user, e.g. I can't select AES
    >> over TKIP in it etc. I can't easily match the "master" wireless settings
    >> in the Orange Live box with those of a Linksys WMP54G pci wireless g
    >> card, that's in Dad's PC in the house, because in the Orange firmware
    >> they're simply not made available, or called something else ! Even the
    >> firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of proper controls like
    >> in the Linksys, and it seems that different manufacturers give different
    >> names and labels to the same things! I have to "trial and error" to
    >> match wireless settings on in Dads' PC - fortunately there are more
    >> comprehensive and flexible settings in the Linksys pci card software.
    >> Also, some sort of design fault in the Orange Livebox means that people
    >> who have one, can no longer access their free Orange webspace, (they're
    >> aware of this and claim to be looking into it). Not that I ever use my
    >> website for much but, I like to try and have a short practice every few
    >> weeks. ....I digress....
    >>
    >> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs the
    >> adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs an
    >> ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP 'phone
    >> calls that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course
    >> not present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one
    >> that I want to keep and use.
    >> ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP 'phone
    >> call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband
    >> sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I
    >> use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls into
    >> the house).
    >>
    >> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I need
    >> to buy ?
    >>
    >> regards, Richard

    >
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #11
  12. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Forget all me earlier ramblings...IT'S WORKING.

    BiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiG thanx to all

    regards, Richard


    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > What's a "Broadcast LAN IP Address" ? ...and does it need to be on or off
    > in
    > one router, or both ?
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >
    >
    > "RJK" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> ..tho' looking at
    >> quoted from http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    >>
    >> "
    >> Example:
    >> - Main Router's base address is 192.168.1.1, with a DHCP server range of
    >> 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 (is this my Livebox?)
    >> - Set the Cable/DSL Router to (the one you're using as an Access Point)
    >> base address to any IP address between 192.168.1.151 to 192.168.1.250 (is
    >> this my Linksys?)
    >> Second Step: Switch Off the DHCP on the Wireless Cable/DSL Router, and
    >> set to Off any filters or special settings that is On if it is used as
    >> the
    >> main Router.
    >> "
    >> <grin>
    >>
    >> regards, Richard
    >>
    >>
    >> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>> Well, thanks to all for your reponses and help.
    >>> I'm trying to picture all this in my head, to try and "picture" what
    >>> goes where, before having a go !
    >>> ...and in what best order to do it
    >>> The theoretical scenario, (the more I ponder on it), raise lots more
    >>> questions in my head !
    >>>
    >>> adsl lead stays or "ends up" plugged into Livebox where it is atm.
    >>> Linksys will eventually be 2nd in the "chain", connected to Livebox by
    >>> ethernet crossover, (or 'autosensed' straight through rj45 lead etc.).
    >>> I obviously have to access Linksys and change its' Gateway IP address to
    >>> something other than 192.168.1.1 e.g. 192.168.1.2
    >>> Livebox will have a demilitarized IP address set in it, ...which is the
    >>> new Gatway address of the Linksys ?, ...which must be different than the
    >>> default 192.168.1.1 that's in both of them ?
    >>> ...wireless is switched off in Livebox, ...DHCP is off in Linksys but,
    >>> stays on in Livebox ? ...I don't understand that, feels like it should
    >>> be
    >>> the other way around !
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, here's my guestimated procedure sequence ! :)
    >>>
    >>> Livebox currently connected, so switch off wireless in Livebox settings.
    >>> Yank firewall down to Low, (Livebox menu says "to be able to set a
    >>> demilitarized zone, first set firewall to Low..." or something like
    >>> that).
    >>> So, put 192.168.1.2 into demilitarized zone, and yank firewall back to
    >>> Medium, ( I hate these Livebox menus !) ...or will that cause problems,
    >>> ...or will the Linksys NAT firewall cover everything ?
    >>>
    >>> Connect Linksys and change it's Gateway address from 192.168.1.1 to
    >>> something else e.g. 192.168.1.2,
    >>> and switch off DHCP. (....so how will Dads' WMP54G get it's IP address
    >>> from WAG354G with no DHCP ? , or will this cuase me to have to make
    >>> manual settings in WMP54G software - I don't think it's that flexible !)
    >>>
    >>> ...but reading through your posts, I've got the suspicion that I'm going
    >>> to end up with two ranges of IP addresses, one range in Livebox, and
    >>> another range in Linksys that conflict ?
    >>>
    >>> ...have to go away and make a cup of coffee now b4 destroying it all !
    >>>
    >>> regards, Richard
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:eFXnY%...
    >>>>I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've been
    >>>>digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    >>>>something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >>>>
    >>>> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be
    >>>> flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >>>> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    >>>> firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to keep
    >>>> anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the user, e.g. I
    >>>> can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't easily match the
    >>>> "master"
    >>>> wireless settings in the Orange Live box with those of a Linksys WMP54G
    >>>> pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in the house, because in the
    >>>> Orange firmware they're simply not made available, or called something
    >>>> else ! Even the firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of
    >>>> proper controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    >>>> manufacturers give different names and labels to the same things! I
    >>>> have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in Dads' PC -
    >>>> fortunately there are more comprehensive and flexible settings in the
    >>>> Linksys pci card software. Also, some sort of design fault in the
    >>>> Orange
    >>>> Livebox means that people who have one, can no longer access their free
    >>>> Orange webspace, (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into
    >>>> it). Not that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and
    >>>> have a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >>>>
    >>>> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs
    >>>> the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs
    >>>> an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP 'phone
    >>>> calls that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course
    >>>> not present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and one
    >>>> that I want to keep and use.
    >>>> ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP 'phone
    >>>> call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband
    >>>> sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house ! (I
    >>>> use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls
    >>>> into
    >>>> the house).
    >>>>
    >>>> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I
    >>>> need
    >>>> to buy ?
    >>>>
    >>>> regards, Richard
    >>>

    >>

    >
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #12
  13. RJK

    RJK Guest

    BIG THANX TO ALL

    The Orange Livebox and Linksys WAG354G are working, in the way you all
    explained !!!

    Well, the Livebox has the adsl line going into it, and there is a short rj45
    lead, (possibly cross-over, or autosensed crosssover on a straight through
    lead if you see what I mean).

    ....and there is my usual long rj45 lead from Linksys to my PC, and web and
    email are working on it.

    Next I have to go into the house and see if Dads' PC's WMP54G will connect
    to the WAG354G out here, which I don't see how it can with DHCP switched off
    in WAG254G ....

    ....and I can access the innards of both routers with 192.168.1.1 for the
    Livebox ad 192.168.1.2 for the Linksys,...well...I suppose that was opvious
    !

    ....anyway thanx to all, I've made some progress.

    regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #13
  14. RJK

    RJK Guest

    ....when I can get Dad's Pc connected to WAG354G that is, ...not clear on why
    I shoucl have DHCP switched off in Linksys :-(

    regards, Richard


    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    > Forget all me earlier ramblings...IT'S WORKING.
    >
    > BiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiG thanx to all
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >
    >
    > "RJK" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> What's a "Broadcast LAN IP Address" ? ...and does it need to be on or off
    >> in
    >> one router, or both ?
    >>
    >> regards, Richard
    >>
    >>
    >> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>> ..tho' looking at
    >>> quoted from http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    >>>
    >>> "
    >>> Example:
    >>> - Main Router's base address is 192.168.1.1, with a DHCP server range of
    >>> 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 (is this my Livebox?)
    >>> - Set the Cable/DSL Router to (the one you're using as an Access Point)
    >>> base address to any IP address between 192.168.1.151 to 192.168.1.250
    >>> (is
    >>> this my Linksys?)
    >>> Second Step: Switch Off the DHCP on the Wireless Cable/DSL Router, and
    >>> set to Off any filters or special settings that is On if it is used as
    >>> the
    >>> main Router.
    >>> "
    >>> <grin>
    >>>
    >>> regards, Richard
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:%...
    >>>> Well, thanks to all for your reponses and help.
    >>>> I'm trying to picture all this in my head, to try and "picture" what
    >>>> goes where, before having a go !
    >>>> ...and in what best order to do it
    >>>> The theoretical scenario, (the more I ponder on it), raise lots more
    >>>> questions in my head !
    >>>>
    >>>> adsl lead stays or "ends up" plugged into Livebox where it is atm.
    >>>> Linksys will eventually be 2nd in the "chain", connected to Livebox by
    >>>> ethernet crossover, (or 'autosensed' straight through rj45 lead etc.).
    >>>> I obviously have to access Linksys and change its' Gateway IP address
    >>>> to
    >>>> something other than 192.168.1.1 e.g. 192.168.1.2
    >>>> Livebox will have a demilitarized IP address set in it, ...which is the
    >>>> new Gatway address of the Linksys ?, ...which must be different than
    >>>> the
    >>>> default 192.168.1.1 that's in both of them ?
    >>>> ...wireless is switched off in Livebox, ...DHCP is off in Linksys but,
    >>>> stays on in Livebox ? ...I don't understand that, feels like it should
    >>>> be
    >>>> the other way around !
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyway, here's my guestimated procedure sequence ! :)
    >>>>
    >>>> Livebox currently connected, so switch off wireless in Livebox
    >>>> settings.
    >>>> Yank firewall down to Low, (Livebox menu says "to be able to set a
    >>>> demilitarized zone, first set firewall to Low..." or something like
    >>>> that).
    >>>> So, put 192.168.1.2 into demilitarized zone, and yank firewall back to
    >>>> Medium, ( I hate these Livebox menus !) ...or will that cause problems,
    >>>> ...or will the Linksys NAT firewall cover everything ?
    >>>>
    >>>> Connect Linksys and change it's Gateway address from 192.168.1.1 to
    >>>> something else e.g. 192.168.1.2,
    >>>> and switch off DHCP. (....so how will Dads' WMP54G get it's IP address
    >>>> from WAG354G with no DHCP ? , or will this cuase me to have to make
    >>>> manual settings in WMP54G software - I don't think it's that flexible
    >>>> !)
    >>>>
    >>>> ...but reading through your posts, I've got the suspicion that I'm
    >>>> going
    >>>> to end up with two ranges of IP addresses, one range in Livebox, and
    >>>> another range in Linksys that conflict ?
    >>>>
    >>>> ...have to go away and make a cup of coffee now b4 destroying it all !
    >>>>
    >>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:eFXnY%...
    >>>>>I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've
    >>>>>been
    >>>>>digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow shares
    >>>>>something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be
    >>>>> flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >>>>> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    >>>>> firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to keep
    >>>>> anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the user, e.g. I
    >>>>> can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't easily match the
    >>>>> "master"
    >>>>> wireless settings in the Orange Live box with those of a Linksys
    >>>>> WMP54G
    >>>>> pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in the house, because in the
    >>>>> Orange firmware they're simply not made available, or called something
    >>>>> else ! Even the firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of
    >>>>> proper controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    >>>>> manufacturers give different names and labels to the same things! I
    >>>>> have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in Dads' PC -
    >>>>> fortunately there are more comprehensive and flexible settings in the
    >>>>> Linksys pci card software. Also, some sort of design fault in the
    >>>>> Orange
    >>>>> Livebox means that people who have one, can no longer access their
    >>>>> free
    >>>>> Orange webspace, (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into
    >>>>> it). Not that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and
    >>>>> have a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs
    >>>>> the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one plugs
    >>>>> an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP
    >>>>> 'phone
    >>>>> calls that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of course
    >>>>> not present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and
    >>>>> one
    >>>>> that I want to keep and use.
    >>>>> ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP
    >>>>> 'phone
    >>>>> call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for broadband
    >>>>> sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house !
    >>>>> (I
    >>>>> use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls
    >>>>> into
    >>>>> the house).
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I
    >>>>> need
    >>>>> to buy ?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #14
  15. Re: BIG THANX TO ALL

    "RJK" <> wrote in news:OhDuKMZMHHA.3556
    @TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl:

    > which I don't see how it can with DHCP switched off
    > in WAG254G ....
    >


    Should work if, as I assumed, the Livebox has DHCP switched on. If
    not, try reverrsing the roles i.e. switch off DHCP server in the
    Livebox and on for the WAG354G. But don't have BOTH on at the same
    time - bound to end in tears :)
     
    Frazer Jolly Goodfellow, Jan 6, 2007
    #15
  16. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Re: BIG THANX TO ALL

    Tearing hair out here now, can't get Dad's WMP54G to connect in the house !
    His Linksys software keeps saying, "You are connected to the Access point
    bu, the internet cannot be found"

    ...booo.hooo.hooo
    ....it kept saying that even when I had DHCP on in Livebox , and off in
    Linksys, ...other way round atm.

    regards, Richard.


    "Frazer Jolly Goodfellow" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns98B09660AEB5Bfrz@62.253.170.163...
    > "RJK" <> wrote in news:OhDuKMZMHHA.3556
    > @TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl:
    >
    >> which I don't see how it can with DHCP switched off
    >> in WAG254G ....
    >>

    >
    > Should work if, as I assumed, the Livebox has DHCP switched on. If
    > not, try reverrsing the roles i.e. switch off DHCP server in the
    > Livebox and on for the WAG354G. But don't have BOTH on at the same
    > time - bound to end in tears :)
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #16
  17. RJK

    David Hettel Guest

    Basically there is at least TWO ways to do this.

    One way the first set of instructions you where given requires you to turn
    off the DHCP server in the Linksys, and the Linksys becomes part of the
    livebox network. So you're kind of limited to what the livebox will permit
    you to do, but all devices can see each other if connected to the livebox or
    the Linksys. This is in my opinion the low security model. The livebox
    become the brain of your system if you will. I was under the impression you
    want more than this. The Linksys is only used to provide wireless control.

    The other possibility is to use the livebox to provide your IP phones, and
    if you wish a very open Wi-Fi, (it can be on or off) but the livebox passes
    everything to the Linksys, and the Linksys provides you home network. Now I
    believe this will work for you because all of your computers can connect to
    the Linksys. In this mode the Linksys would require that it's DHCP server be
    enabled, but in a different IP space than the livebox. Are you still with
    me? This is a different way of networking that the first option. You need to
    pick one or the other. What is valid for one option may not be valid for the
    other. In this option the Linksys is the Brain of your network. A computer
    connected to the livebox will not be able to see a computer connected to the
    Linksys.

    --
    David Hettel

    Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone
    to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in
    E-mail or news groups.

    Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

    DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
    either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
    or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
    indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or
    inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and confers
    no rights.



    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > ...when I can get Dad's Pc connected to WAG354G that is, ...not clear on
    > why I shoucl have DHCP switched off in Linksys :-(
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >
    >
    > "RJK" <> wrote in message
    > news:%...
    >> Forget all me earlier ramblings...IT'S WORKING.
    >>
    >> BiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiG thanx to all
    >>
    >> regards, Richard
    >>
    >>
    >> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> What's a "Broadcast LAN IP Address" ? ...and does it need to be on or
    >>> off in
    >>> one router, or both ?
    >>>
    >>> regards, Richard
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:%...
    >>>> ..tho' looking at
    >>>> quoted from http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    >>>>
    >>>> "
    >>>> Example:
    >>>> - Main Router's base address is 192.168.1.1, with a DHCP server range
    >>>> of
    >>>> 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 (is this my Livebox?)
    >>>> - Set the Cable/DSL Router to (the one you're using as an Access Point)
    >>>> base address to any IP address between 192.168.1.151 to 192.168.1.250
    >>>> (is
    >>>> this my Linksys?)
    >>>> Second Step: Switch Off the DHCP on the Wireless Cable/DSL Router, and
    >>>> set to Off any filters or special settings that is On if it is used as
    >>>> the
    >>>> main Router.
    >>>> "
    >>>> <grin>
    >>>>
    >>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:%...
    >>>>> Well, thanks to all for your reponses and help.
    >>>>> I'm trying to picture all this in my head, to try and "picture" what
    >>>>> goes where, before having a go !
    >>>>> ...and in what best order to do it
    >>>>> The theoretical scenario, (the more I ponder on it), raise lots more
    >>>>> questions in my head !
    >>>>>
    >>>>> adsl lead stays or "ends up" plugged into Livebox where it is atm.
    >>>>> Linksys will eventually be 2nd in the "chain", connected to Livebox by
    >>>>> ethernet crossover, (or 'autosensed' straight through rj45 lead etc.).
    >>>>> I obviously have to access Linksys and change its' Gateway IP address
    >>>>> to
    >>>>> something other than 192.168.1.1 e.g. 192.168.1.2
    >>>>> Livebox will have a demilitarized IP address set in it, ...which is
    >>>>> the
    >>>>> new Gatway address of the Linksys ?, ...which must be different than
    >>>>> the
    >>>>> default 192.168.1.1 that's in both of them ?
    >>>>> ...wireless is switched off in Livebox, ...DHCP is off in Linksys but,
    >>>>> stays on in Livebox ? ...I don't understand that, feels like it should
    >>>>> be
    >>>>> the other way around !
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Anyway, here's my guestimated procedure sequence ! :)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Livebox currently connected, so switch off wireless in Livebox
    >>>>> settings.
    >>>>> Yank firewall down to Low, (Livebox menu says "to be able to set a
    >>>>> demilitarized zone, first set firewall to Low..." or something like
    >>>>> that).
    >>>>> So, put 192.168.1.2 into demilitarized zone, and yank firewall back to
    >>>>> Medium, ( I hate these Livebox menus !) ...or will that cause
    >>>>> problems,
    >>>>> ...or will the Linksys NAT firewall cover everything ?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Connect Linksys and change it's Gateway address from 192.168.1.1 to
    >>>>> something else e.g. 192.168.1.2,
    >>>>> and switch off DHCP. (....so how will Dads' WMP54G get it's IP
    >>>>> address
    >>>>> from WAG354G with no DHCP ? , or will this cuase me to have to make
    >>>>> manual settings in WMP54G software - I don't think it's that flexible
    >>>>> !)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ...but reading through your posts, I've got the suspicion that I'm
    >>>>> going
    >>>>> to end up with two ranges of IP addresses, one range in Livebox, and
    >>>>> another range in Linksys that conflict ?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ...have to go away and make a cup of coffee now b4 destroying it all !
    >>>>>
    >>>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:eFXnY%...
    >>>>>>I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've
    >>>>>>been
    >>>>>>digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow
    >>>>>>shares
    >>>>>>something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be
    >>>>>> flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >>>>>> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    >>>>>> firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to keep
    >>>>>> anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the user, e.g. I
    >>>>>> can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't easily match the
    >>>>>> "master"
    >>>>>> wireless settings in the Orange Live box with those of a Linksys
    >>>>>> WMP54G
    >>>>>> pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in the house, because in the
    >>>>>> Orange firmware they're simply not made available, or called
    >>>>>> something
    >>>>>> else ! Even the firewall has four novice "level" settings instead of
    >>>>>> proper controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    >>>>>> manufacturers give different names and labels to the same things! I
    >>>>>> have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in Dads' PC -
    >>>>>> fortunately there are more comprehensive and flexible settings in the
    >>>>>> Linksys pci card software. Also, some sort of design fault in the
    >>>>>> Orange
    >>>>>> Livebox means that people who have one, can no longer access their
    >>>>>> free
    >>>>>> Orange webspace, (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into
    >>>>>> it). Not that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and
    >>>>>> have a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one plugs
    >>>>>> the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one
    >>>>>> plugs
    >>>>>> an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP
    >>>>>> 'phone
    >>>>>> calls that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of
    >>>>>> course
    >>>>>> not present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and
    >>>>>> one
    >>>>>> that I want to keep and use.
    >>>>>> ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP
    >>>>>> 'phone
    >>>>>> call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for
    >>>>>> broadband
    >>>>>> sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house !
    >>>>>> (I
    >>>>>> use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls
    >>>>>> into
    >>>>>> the house).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I
    >>>>>> need
    >>>>>> to buy ?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
     
    David Hettel, Jan 6, 2007
    #17
  18. RJK

    David Hettel Guest

    Re: BIG THANX TO ALL

    You might want to post the results of | Start (menu) | Run | CMD [enter] |
    in the new window | ipconfig /all [enter]

    --
    David Hettel

    Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone
    to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in
    E-mail or news groups.

    Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

    DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
    either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
    or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
    indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or
    inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and confers
    no rights.



    "RJK" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Tearing hair out here now, can't get Dad's WMP54G to connect in the house
    > !
    > His Linksys software keeps saying, "You are connected to the Access point
    > bu, the internet cannot be found"
    >
    > ..booo.hooo.hooo
    > ...it kept saying that even when I had DHCP on in Livebox , and off in
    > Linksys, ...other way round atm.
    >
    > regards, Richard.
    >
    >
    > "Frazer Jolly Goodfellow" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns98B09660AEB5Bfrz@62.253.170.163...
    >> "RJK" <> wrote in news:OhDuKMZMHHA.3556
    >> @TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl:
    >>
    >>> which I don't see how it can with DHCP switched off
    >>> in WAG254G ....
    >>>

    >>
    >> Should work if, as I assumed, the Livebox has DHCP switched on. If
    >> not, try reverrsing the roles i.e. switch off DHCP server in the
    >> Livebox and on for the WAG354G. But don't have BOTH on at the same
    >> time - bound to end in tears :)

    >
     
    David Hettel, Jan 6, 2007
    #18
  19. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Thanx, I am grateful, ..and frustrated. I'm beginning to think that the
    Livebox is perhaps being stubborn.
    cmd | ipconfig /all shows :

    Windows IP Configuration
    Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : lian-li
    Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
    IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

    Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : SiS 900-Based PCI Fast Ethernet
    Adapter
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-0D-87-37-E3-0C
    Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.100
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : 06 January 2007 14:58:09
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : 07 January 2007 14:58:09

    ....despite that I have set the DHCP range in the Live box to 192.168.1.100
    to 192.168.1.150
    and I have set the IP "base" address of Livebox to 192.168.1.1
    and Linksys "base" address to 192.168.1.152 (prior to that it was at
    192.168.1.2 ) ...IF that's what the label "Local IP Address" in the Linksys
    is !

    What I wanted, as you say, is Livebox to supply internet to Linksys, and for
    Linksys to supply internet via LAN lead to my PC, (which is working fine),
    and to Dads' PC wirelessly. So I'm now fiddling in in an area about which I
    know nothing, and probably doesn't need fiddlling with, and could end up
    with overlapping or conflicting dns no's !

    ....I think I'm progressiveley getting even more lost, and lots of qustions
    keep arising !

    In the house, Dads' PC's WMP54g is saying "Connected to the Access Point
    but, the internet cannot be found," is that something to do with all these
    192.168.???.??? addresses ?

    regards, Richard













    "David Hettel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Basically there is at least TWO ways to do this.
    >
    > One way the first set of instructions you where given requires you to turn
    > off the DHCP server in the Linksys, and the Linksys becomes part of the
    > livebox network. So you're kind of limited to what the livebox will permit
    > you to do, but all devices can see each other if connected to the livebox
    > or the Linksys. This is in my opinion the low security model. The livebox
    > become the brain of your system if you will. I was under the impression
    > you want more than this. The Linksys is only used to provide wireless
    > control.
    >
    > The other possibility is to use the livebox to provide your IP phones, and
    > if you wish a very open Wi-Fi, (it can be on or off) but the livebox
    > passes everything to the Linksys, and the Linksys provides you home
    > network. Now I believe this will work for you because all of your
    > computers can connect to the Linksys. In this mode the Linksys would
    > require that it's DHCP server be enabled, but in a different IP space than
    > the livebox. Are you still with me? This is a different way of networking
    > that the first option. You need to pick one or the other. What is valid
    > for one option may not be valid for the other. In this option the Linksys
    > is the Brain of your network. A computer connected to the livebox will not
    > be able to see a computer connected to the Linksys.
    >
    > --
    > David Hettel
    >
    > Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
    > everyone
    > to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me
    > in
    > E-mail or news groups.
    >
    > Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
    > http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
    >
    > DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
    > either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
    > or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
    > indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
    > or
    > inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
    > confers
    > no rights.
    >
    >
    >
    > "RJK" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> ...when I can get Dad's Pc connected to WAG354G that is, ...not clear on
    >> why I shoucl have DHCP switched off in Linksys :-(
    >>
    >> regards, Richard
    >>
    >>
    >> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >> news:%...
    >>> Forget all me earlier ramblings...IT'S WORKING.
    >>>
    >>> BiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiG thanx to all
    >>>
    >>> regards, Richard
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> What's a "Broadcast LAN IP Address" ? ...and does it need to be on or
    >>>> off in
    >>>> one router, or both ?
    >>>>
    >>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:%...
    >>>>> ..tho' looking at
    >>>>> quoted from http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "
    >>>>> Example:
    >>>>> - Main Router's base address is 192.168.1.1, with a DHCP server range
    >>>>> of
    >>>>> 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150 (is this my Livebox?)
    >>>>> - Set the Cable/DSL Router to (the one you're using as an Access
    >>>>> Point)
    >>>>> base address to any IP address between 192.168.1.151 to 192.168.1.250
    >>>>> (is
    >>>>> this my Linksys?)
    >>>>> Second Step: Switch Off the DHCP on the Wireless Cable/DSL Router,
    >>>>> and
    >>>>> set to Off any filters or special settings that is On if it is used as
    >>>>> the
    >>>>> main Router.
    >>>>> "
    >>>>> <grin>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:%...
    >>>>>> Well, thanks to all for your reponses and help.
    >>>>>> I'm trying to picture all this in my head, to try and "picture" what
    >>>>>> goes where, before having a go !
    >>>>>> ...and in what best order to do it
    >>>>>> The theoretical scenario, (the more I ponder on it), raise lots more
    >>>>>> questions in my head !
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> adsl lead stays or "ends up" plugged into Livebox where it is atm.
    >>>>>> Linksys will eventually be 2nd in the "chain", connected to Livebox
    >>>>>> by
    >>>>>> ethernet crossover, (or 'autosensed' straight through rj45 lead
    >>>>>> etc.).
    >>>>>> I obviously have to access Linksys and change its' Gateway IP address
    >>>>>> to
    >>>>>> something other than 192.168.1.1 e.g. 192.168.1.2
    >>>>>> Livebox will have a demilitarized IP address set in it, ...which is
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> new Gatway address of the Linksys ?, ...which must be different than
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> default 192.168.1.1 that's in both of them ?
    >>>>>> ...wireless is switched off in Livebox, ...DHCP is off in Linksys
    >>>>>> but,
    >>>>>> stays on in Livebox ? ...I don't understand that, feels like it
    >>>>>> should be
    >>>>>> the other way around !
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Anyway, here's my guestimated procedure sequence ! :)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Livebox currently connected, so switch off wireless in Livebox
    >>>>>> settings.
    >>>>>> Yank firewall down to Low, (Livebox menu says "to be able to set a
    >>>>>> demilitarized zone, first set firewall to Low..." or something like
    >>>>>> that).
    >>>>>> So, put 192.168.1.2 into demilitarized zone, and yank firewall back
    >>>>>> to
    >>>>>> Medium, ( I hate these Livebox menus !) ...or will that cause
    >>>>>> problems,
    >>>>>> ...or will the Linksys NAT firewall cover everything ?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Connect Linksys and change it's Gateway address from 192.168.1.1 to
    >>>>>> something else e.g. 192.168.1.2,
    >>>>>> and switch off DHCP. (....so how will Dads' WMP54G get it's IP
    >>>>>> address
    >>>>>> from WAG354G with no DHCP ? , or will this cuase me to have to make
    >>>>>> manual settings in WMP54G software - I don't think it's that flexible
    >>>>>> !)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ...but reading through your posts, I've got the suspicion that I'm
    >>>>>> going
    >>>>>> to end up with two ranges of IP addresses, one range in Livebox, and
    >>>>>> another range in Linksys that conflict ?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> ...have to go away and make a cup of coffee now b4 destroying it all
    >>>>>> !
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "RJK" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:eFXnY%...
    >>>>>>>I want to "split" or share my adsl line between two routers ! I've
    >>>>>>>been
    >>>>>>>digging on the web and apparantly I need a "switch" that somehow
    >>>>>>>shares
    >>>>>>>something (my adsl line) ! ...see how much I've learnt !!!
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The longish story is that the hardware I have doesn't seem to be
    >>>>>>> flexible enough, (plus I don't like the Orange Livebox
    >>>>>>> adsl/modem/router+wireless g with WEP/WPA because the inadequate
    >>>>>>> firmware in the router seems to have been purposely designed to keep
    >>>>>>> anything that looks remotely technical hidden form the user, e.g. I
    >>>>>>> can't select AES over TKIP in it etc. I can't easily match the
    >>>>>>> "master"
    >>>>>>> wireless settings in the Orange Live box with those of a Linksys
    >>>>>>> WMP54G
    >>>>>>> pci wireless g card, that's in Dad's PC in the house, because in the
    >>>>>>> Orange firmware they're simply not made available, or called
    >>>>>>> something
    >>>>>>> else ! Even the firewall has four novice "level" settings instead
    >>>>>>> of
    >>>>>>> proper controls like in the Linksys, and it seems that different
    >>>>>>> manufacturers give different names and labels to the same things! I
    >>>>>>> have to "trial and error" to match wireless settings on in Dads'
    >>>>>>> PC -
    >>>>>>> fortunately there are more comprehensive and flexible settings in
    >>>>>>> the
    >>>>>>> Linksys pci card software. Also, some sort of design fault in the
    >>>>>>> Orange
    >>>>>>> Livebox means that people who have one, can no longer access their
    >>>>>>> free
    >>>>>>> Orange webspace, (they're aware of this and claim to be looking into
    >>>>>>> it). Not that I ever use my website for much but, I like to try and
    >>>>>>> have a short practice every few weeks. ....I digress....
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> The Orange Livebox has the normal rj11 plug-hole into which one
    >>>>>>> plugs
    >>>>>>> the adsl signal, and an additional rj11 plug hole into which one
    >>>>>>> plugs
    >>>>>>> an ordinary 'phone, in order to make use of the free Orange VOIP
    >>>>>>> 'phone
    >>>>>>> calls that start with 01 or 02 , a hardware facility that is of
    >>>>>>> course
    >>>>>>> not present on my Linksys WAG354G adsl/modem/router+wireless g, and
    >>>>>>> one
    >>>>>>> that I want to keep and use.
    >>>>>>> ...so I want to use both routers so that I can use the free VOIP
    >>>>>>> 'phone
    >>>>>>> call facility on the Orange Live box, and use my Linksys for
    >>>>>>> broadband
    >>>>>>> sent to my PC on rj45 lead and wirelessly to Dads' PC in the house !
    >>>>>>> (I
    >>>>>>> use DECT digital cordless phones to get the "free" VOIP phone calls
    >>>>>>> into
    >>>>>>> the house).
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> ....any idea how I can use both routers at once, and/or what else I
    >>>>>>> need
    >>>>>>> to buy ?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> regards, Richard
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>

    >>

    >
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #19
  20. RJK

    RJK Guest

    Re: BIG THANX TO ALL

    Thanx just did that, further down this thread ....sorry.

    regards, Richard
     
    RJK, Jan 6, 2007
    #20
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