How Do I Scan Newsprint Without Bleedthrough?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by jim evans, Jul 8, 2006.

  1. jim evans

    jim evans Guest

    I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    images.

    Does anybody have a technique to avoid this bleedthrough?

    -- jim
    jim evans, Jul 8, 2006
    #1
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  2. jim evans

    Ben Brugman Guest

    "jim evans" <> schreef in bericht
    news:p...
    >
    > I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    > old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    > printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    > terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    > haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    > interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    > images.


    It does help to use a black 'card' behind the newspaper.
    I have very often wondered why is the back of the lid of
    a scanner white and not black. I would think that a black
    backgroud to what you are scanning will in most cases
    produce the best results.

    You could also use your camera to make pictures of
    the newspaper. If you have a steady hand this is fairly
    easy. (I do this all the time).

    ben


    >
    > Does anybody have a technique to avoid this bleedthrough?
    >
    > -- jim
    Ben Brugman, Jul 8, 2006
    #2
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  3. jim evans

    Gavin Shaw Guest

    The message <>
    from jim evans <> contains these words:


    > I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    > old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    > printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    > terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    > haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    > interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    > images.


    > Does anybody have a technique to avoid this bleedthrough?


    > -- jim


    Hi Jim,

    Put a piece of matt black card behind the cutting. The light that passes
    through the cutting won't then bounce back off the card to illuminate the
    reverse side.

    --
    Gavin

    http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/gshaw/
    Gavin Shaw, Jul 8, 2006
    #3
  4. jim evans

    Helen Guest

    "jim evans" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >
    > I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    > old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    > printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    > terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    > haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    > interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    > images.
    >
    > Does anybody have a technique to avoid this bleedthrough?
    >


    Photograph it.
    Helen, Jul 8, 2006
    #4
  5. jim evans

    Hebee Jeebes Guest

    I think the answer to your question comes in the form of it is designed for
    print material where white is the paper color. If they had black lid
    backgrounds and not the white ones un-educated users would be wasting a ton
    of ink when the printed. I don't think they want the sass back for that.
    Just a guess mind you.

    R


    "Ben Brugman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "jim evans" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:p...
    >>
    >> I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    >> old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    >> printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    >> terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    >> haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    >> interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    >> images.

    >
    > It does help to use a black 'card' behind the newspaper.
    > I have very often wondered why is the back of the lid of
    > a scanner white and not black. I would think that a black
    > backgroud to what you are scanning will in most cases
    > produce the best results.
    >
    > You could also use your camera to make pictures of
    > the newspaper. If you have a steady hand this is fairly
    > easy. (I do this all the time).
    >
    > ben
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Does anybody have a technique to avoid this bleedthrough?
    >>
    >> -- jim

    >
    >
    Hebee Jeebes, Jul 8, 2006
    #5
  6. jim evans

    Ben Brugman Guest

    "Hebee Jeebes" <> schreef in bericht
    news:44afe2ae$0$34548$...
    >I think the answer to your question comes in the form of it is designed for
    >print material where white is the paper color. If they had black lid
    >backgrounds and not the white ones un-educated users would be wasting a ton
    >of ink when the printed. I don't think they want the sass back for that.
    >Just a guess mind you.
    >

    Thanks for your contribution, yes your suggestion is very plausible and
    a very good reason. Smart to think about the un-educated users.
    (For copies it is also true, even for educated users.).

    Thanks
    ben
    Ben Brugman, Jul 8, 2006
    #6
  7. jim evans

    jim evans Guest

    Thanks for the tips. Upon close examination it appears the ink has
    literally soaked into the paper leaving ink on the opposite side, thus
    for these clippings, nothing will work.

    Incidentally, many years ago I had a (very expensive) HP scanner. The
    lid on it was flat black.

    -- jim
    jim evans, Jul 8, 2006
    #7
  8. jim evans

    Stewy Guest

    In article <>,
    jim evans <> wrote:

    > I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    > old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    > printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    > terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    > haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    > interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    > images.
    >
    > Does anybody have a technique to avoid this bleedthrough?


    To avoid bleed through, use a sheet of black paper - you can get some
    from an art supply shop of perhaps a stationery store.
    Stewy, Jul 9, 2006
    #8
  9. jim evans

    Stewy Guest

    In article <>,
    "Ben Brugman" <> wrote:

    > "jim evans" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:p...
    > >
    > > I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    > > old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    > > printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    > > terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    > > haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    > > interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    > > images.

    >
    > It does help to use a black 'card' behind the newspaper.
    > I have very often wondered why is the back of the lid of
    > a scanner white and not black. I would think that a black
    > backgroud to what you are scanning will in most cases
    > produce the best results.


    Yes. it does seems that as photocopy machines lids were white so must
    scanners be white. Some of these electronics designers are too close to
    the product they can't see it's limitations. Like having the Print
    dialogue box small with a huge drop-down list - why not have all the
    info there on screen with preset defaults? Oooh, er sorry for that
    uncalled for rant...
    >
    > You could also use your camera to make pictures of
    > the newspaper. If you have a steady hand this is fairly
    > easy. (I do this all the time).


    If you can get yourself an old enlarger stand, this will do very well
    for document copying with a digicam. My old Sony S-70 had a 'text mode'
    option (basically a very high contrast monochrome image) and this worked
    well as a scanner until I bought a 'real' one.
    Stewy, Jul 9, 2006
    #9
  10. jim evans

    Hebee Jeebes Guest

    I mean that is just a wild guess. I don't think I have ever seen an
    interview with a scanner maker or anything that ever asked that question. It
    might be interesting if someone from the press did ask that question. Also,
    for scanners like the Epson's that have that white background removable (for
    the film scanner part) why no black background option as well as the white?
    Might be funny to see what they had to say. My guess is that they would just
    sit and look funny trying to come up with a reason.

    It could be that it is a similar answer as to why my grandmother used to cut
    the ends off hear canned hams. I asked her once and she said it was because
    it was the only way it would fit in the pan. Thank god we have larger pans
    now! :)

    Robert


    "Ben Brugman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Hebee Jeebes" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:44afe2ae$0$34548$...
    >>I think the answer to your question comes in the form of it is designed
    >>for print material where white is the paper color. If they had black lid
    >>backgrounds and not the white ones un-educated users would be wasting a
    >>ton of ink when the printed. I don't think they want the sass back for
    >>that. Just a guess mind you.
    >>

    > Thanks for your contribution, yes your suggestion is very plausible and
    > a very good reason. Smart to think about the un-educated users.
    > (For copies it is also true, even for educated users.).
    >
    > Thanks
    > ben
    >
    Hebee Jeebes, Jul 9, 2006
    #10
  11. jim evans

    Hebee Jeebes Guest

    The chances are the reason is just something silly. They didn't think about
    it. Maybe the first scanners used copier lids and so it started with white
    and they never thought about changing it? <SHRUG>

    Robert


    "Stewy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>,
    > "Ben Brugman" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "jim evans" <> schreef in bericht
    >> news:p...
    >> >
    >> > I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    >> > old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    >> > printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    >> > terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    >> > haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    >> > interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    >> > images.

    >>
    >> It does help to use a black 'card' behind the newspaper.
    >> I have very often wondered why is the back of the lid of
    >> a scanner white and not black. I would think that a black
    >> backgroud to what you are scanning will in most cases
    >> produce the best results.

    >
    > Yes. it does seems that as photocopy machines lids were white so must
    > scanners be white. Some of these electronics designers are too close to
    > the product they can't see it's limitations. Like having the Print
    > dialogue box small with a huge drop-down list - why not have all the
    > info there on screen with preset defaults? Oooh, er sorry for that
    > uncalled for rant...
    >>
    >> You could also use your camera to make pictures of
    >> the newspaper. If you have a steady hand this is fairly
    >> easy. (I do this all the time).

    >
    > If you can get yourself an old enlarger stand, this will do very well
    > for document copying with a digicam. My old Sony S-70 had a 'text mode'
    > option (basically a very high contrast monochrome image) and this worked
    > well as a scanner until I bought a 'real' one.
    Hebee Jeebes, Jul 9, 2006
    #11
  12. jim evans <> writes:

    >Incidentally, many years ago I had a (very expensive) HP scanner. The
    >lid on it was flat black.


    I have a Canon LiDE scanner that's a few years old now. Its pressure
    plate (underside of the lid) is black.

    Dave
    Dave Martindale, Jul 9, 2006
    #12
  13. jim evans

    Hebee Jeebes Guest

    Wow, some someone at Canon had a thought. Cool. Never seen a black one
    before. Hold on to it it could become a collectors item. I mean sooner or
    later something dealing with a computer has to become a collectors item. It
    can't all turn to junk after a few years...

    R


    "Dave Martindale" <> wrote in message
    news:e8q58p$ms2$...
    > jim evans <> writes:
    >
    >>Incidentally, many years ago I had a (very expensive) HP scanner. The
    >>lid on it was flat black.

    >
    > I have a Canon LiDE scanner that's a few years old now. Its pressure
    > plate (underside of the lid) is black.
    >
    > Dave
    Hebee Jeebes, Jul 9, 2006
    #13
  14. jim evans

    Ron Hunter Guest

    jim evans wrote:
    > I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    > old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    > printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    > terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    > haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    > interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    > images.
    >
    > Does anybody have a technique to avoid this bleedthrough?
    >
    > -- jim


    First, there WILL be some bleedthrough as newsprint just does this.
    Second, DON'T use .jpg for text. USE .gif, or .tif as the artifacts
    generated by the jpeg compression process are horrible when processing text.
    Ron Hunter, Jul 9, 2006
    #14
  15. jim evans

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Stewy wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > "Ben Brugman" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "jim evans" <> schreef in bericht
    >> news:p...
    >>> I'm the family digital image person. They've asked me to scan several
    >>> old newspaper clippings and make JPGs of them for the web as well as
    >>> printable versions. I've tried to scan newsprint before and I get
    >>> terrible bleedthrough from the back/reverse side of the clipping. I
    >>> haven't come up with a way to avoid this bleedthrough and it
    >>> interferes so much it's difficult to read the real text and view
    >>> images.

    >> It does help to use a black 'card' behind the newspaper.
    >> I have very often wondered why is the back of the lid of
    >> a scanner white and not black. I would think that a black
    >> backgroud to what you are scanning will in most cases
    >> produce the best results.

    >
    > Yes. it does seems that as photocopy machines lids were white so must
    > scanners be white. Some of these electronics designers are too close to
    > the product they can't see it's limitations. Like having the Print
    > dialogue box small with a huge drop-down list - why not have all the
    > info there on screen with preset defaults? Oooh, er sorry for that
    > uncalled for rant...
    >> You could also use your camera to make pictures of
    >> the newspaper. If you have a steady hand this is fairly
    >> easy. (I do this all the time).

    >
    > If you can get yourself an old enlarger stand, this will do very well
    > for document copying with a digicam. My old Sony S-70 had a 'text mode'
    > option (basically a very high contrast monochrome image) and this worked
    > well as a scanner until I bought a 'real' one.


    I had an old scanner (Mustek) with a black lid. It worked well, but I
    replaced it with an all-in-one printer, which has a white lid. I think
    the old software driver used the black to define the scanned area to the
    computer. I guess either way works fine. The new scanner will even
    automatically straighten skewed pictures. Great!
    Ron Hunter, Jul 9, 2006
    #15
  16. jim evans

    Buck Fush Guest

    "jim evans" <> wrote in message news:...
    > Thanks for the tips. Upon close examination it appears the ink has
    > literally soaked into the paper leaving ink on the opposite side, thus
    > for these clippings, nothing will work.


    Depends. For text, try scanning in 1-bit mode and lower your
    white point below the bleedthrough level. If the text you're
    trying to scan is darker than the bleedthrough you should be
    able to strip one without losing any of the other.

    > Incidentally, many years ago I had a (very expensive) HP scanner. The
    > lid on it was flat black.


    Microtek also uses black lids on many of their scanners.
    Buck Fush, Jul 9, 2006
    #16
  17. jim evans

    jpc Guest

    On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:58:07 -0500, jim evans
    <> wrote:

    >Thanks for the tips. Upon close examination it appears the ink has
    >literally soaked into the paper leaving ink on the opposite side, thus
    >for these clippings, nothing will work.
    >
    >Incidentally, many years ago I had a (very expensive) HP scanner. The
    >lid on it was flat black.


    If you photoeditor has a bitrmap mode you might try scaning your
    newpaper clipingis so the ink bleedthru is under 128 and the news
    print you want is over 128. When you convert to the bitmap mode the
    under 128 becomes white and the over 128 becomes black

    jpc
    jpc, Jul 9, 2006
    #17
  18. jim evans

    John Turco Guest

    Hebee Jeebes wrote:
    >
    > Wow, some someone at Canon had a thought. Cool. Never seen a black one
    > before. Hold on to it it could become a collectors item. I mean sooner or
    > later something dealing with a computer has to become a collectors item. It
    > can't all turn to junk after a few years...
    >
    > R
    >
    > "Dave Martindale" <> wrote in message
    > news:e8q58p$ms2$...
    > > jim evans <> writes:
    > >
    > >>Incidentally, many years ago I had a (very expensive) HP scanner. The
    > >>lid on it was flat black.

    > >
    > > I have a Canon LiDE scanner that's a few years old now. Its pressure
    > > plate (underside of the lid) is black.
    > >
    > > Dave



    Hello,

    Hmmm, I never realized this was so rare. Both of my ultra-cheap, USB
    bus-powered flatbed scanners (Mustek 1200 UB and its predecessor, Artec
    Ultima 2000) have lids with black undersides.

    In addition to numerous pictures, I've used them to scan a fair share
    of newspaper articles (some with accompanying photos); I don't recall
    "bleed through" ever being much of a problem, for me.

    Although, I'm unsure whether my good fortune has been due to the dark
    items in question. ;-)


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
    John Turco, Jul 11, 2006
    #18
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