How do I improve "softness" of 10D

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Z, Aug 30, 2003.

  1. Z

    Z Guest

    I have a couple digitals cameras, A 2mp Canon a20 and a new Canon 10D. I
    recently used both on vacation and found something interesting. If I shoot
    with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same with the A20, the file is about 4
    times the size from the 10D, ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look sharper from
    the A20. If I do no manipulation, just copy and print, or take to the local
    lab to print on the the same system that prints 35mm pics, the A20 pics are
    clearly sharper. I admit that the tones are better (smoother) with the 10D.

    Camera was set on Auto WB, although I have tried others with no change in
    results. Does this seem odd to other 10D owners, or can I turn up the
    contrast 'in camera' ? Any advice will be helpful.

    Brian
     
    Z, Aug 30, 2003
    #1
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  2. Z

    Don Coon Guest

    "Z" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have a couple digitals cameras, A 2mp Canon a20 and a new Canon 10D. I
    > recently used both on vacation and found something interesting. If I

    shoot
    > with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same with the A20, the file is about

    4
    > times the size from the 10D, ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look sharper

    from
    > the A20. If I do no manipulation, just copy and print, or take to the

    local
    > lab to print on the the same system that prints 35mm pics, the A20 pics

    are
    > clearly sharper. I admit that the tones are better (smoother) with the

    10D.
    >
    > Camera was set on Auto WB, although I have tried others with no change in
    > results. Does this seem odd to other 10D owners, or can I turn up the
    > contrast 'in camera' ? Any advice will be helpful.


    Brian,

    I owned an BOTH a A10 AND 10D for awhile. The A10 (and A20) are set to
    oversaturate and oversharpen iamges with no option to reduce either. The 10D
    is set to produce neutral saturation and very little sharpening by default
    'cuz most 10D users want more control in post proocessing. However, the 10D
    has 5 levels of user selectable settings for saturation, contrast,
    sharpening and color tone. If you'd like your 10D to act more like the
    A10/A20 simply crank the first 3 settings up to +2 (maximum.) In the long
    run I think you'll be disappointed. I had to tone down saturation and
    contrast on numerous shots from the A10 to make them more realistic.
     
    Don Coon, Aug 30, 2003
    #2
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  3. Z

    David Lewis Guest

    Z wrote:
    > I have a couple digitals cameras, A 2mp Canon a20 and a new Canon
    > 10D. I recently used both on vacation and found something
    > interesting. If I shoot with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same
    > with the A20, the file is about 4 times the size from the 10D,
    > ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look sharper from the A20. If I do no
    > manipulation, just copy and print, or take to the local lab to print
    > on the the same system that prints 35mm pics, the A20 pics are
    > clearly sharper. I admit that the tones are better (smoother) with
    > the 10D.


    Interestingly I posted same question Re the G2 being too 'soft'. Whilst
    looking around for answers I found a review on the 10D that goes into this
    problem..
    http://www.digicamera.com/reviews/03aug-canon-eos10d.html

    --
    Kind Regards,
    David
     
    David Lewis, Aug 30, 2003
    #3
  4. Z

    Lionel Guest

    Word has it that on Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:23:20 -0500, in this august
    forum, "Z" <> said:

    >I have a couple digitals cameras, A 2mp Canon a20 and a new Canon 10D. I
    >recently used both on vacation and found something interesting. If I shoot
    >with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same with the A20, the file is about 4
    >times the size from the 10D, ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look sharper from
    >the A20. If I do no manipulation, just copy and print, or take to the local
    >lab to print on the the same system that prints 35mm pics, the A20 pics are
    >clearly sharper. I admit that the tones are better (smoother) with the 10D.


    If you reduce the size of the 10D photo to the same as the A20 photo, I
    suspect that it'll end up sharper than the A20 image.
    Without going into a lot of technical detail, the 'softness' of the 10D
    images is mainly because it's intended for use by serious photographers,
    who generally don't want the camera trying to automatically 'improve'
    the raw photo. The A20 is intended for domestic use, so it's designed to
    pre-process your shots to give you a nice picture straight out of the
    camera.

    >Camera was set on Auto WB, although I have tried others with no change in
    >results. Does this seem odd to other 10D owners, or can I turn up the
    >contrast 'in camera' ? Any advice will be helpful.


    Yes, you can turn up the sharpness in the 'parameters' section of the
    camera menu (check your fine manual for details). Personally, I shoot
    RAW & do my own sharpening later, but if you just want to shoot JPEGs
    that'll look good straight out of the camera, upping the 'sharpening'
    setting to maximum (+2) is the way to go. If you prefer more vivid
    colours, you can also up the 'saturation' setting in the same menu.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Aug 30, 2003
    #4
  5. There have been some reports of a possible focus problem with the 10D which
    could account for what you are observing. See:

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/canon-controversies

    "Z" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have a couple digitals cameras, A 2mp Canon a20 and a new Canon 10D. I
    > recently used both on vacation and found something interesting. If I

    shoot
    > with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same with the A20, the file is about

    4
    > times the size from the 10D, ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look sharper

    from
    > the A20. If I do no manipulation, just copy and print, or take to the

    local
    > lab to print on the the same system that prints 35mm pics, the A20 pics

    are
    > clearly sharper. I admit that the tones are better (smoother) with the

    10D.
    >
    > Camera was set on Auto WB, although I have tried others with no change in
    > results. Does this seem odd to other 10D owners, or can I turn up the
    > contrast 'in camera' ? Any advice will be helpful.
    >
    > Brian
    >
    >
     
    David Goldstein, Aug 30, 2003
    #5
  6. Z

    Kenny Guest

    "Z" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have a couple digitals cameras, A 2mp Canon a20 and a new Canon

    10D. I
    > recently used both on vacation and found something interesting. If I

    shoot
    > with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same with the A20, the file is

    about 4
    > times the size from the 10D, ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look

    sharper from
    > the A20.


    That is how it is supposed to be. Canon wisely has left the decision on
    the amount of sharpening, saturation etc. to post-processing by the
    user. Most P&S cameras over-sharpen and over- saturate because that is
    what that type of user wants. Maybe you made the wrong choice and you
    need an up-market P&S and not a 10D?

    You can make your images from the Canon look like they have come from a
    P&S camera by winding up the in-camera settings, but trust me, you will
    soon be putting them back to neutral. It is more accurate to compare the
    10D, D100, etc. images to film rather than P&S output.

    Kenny
     
    Kenny, Aug 30, 2003
    #6
  7. "Z" <> wrote in message news:<>...

    > Camera was set on Auto WB, although I have tried others with no change in
    > results. Does this seem odd to other 10D owners, or can I turn up the
    > contrast 'in camera' ? Any advice will be helpful.


    Well, the point is... and whether people do or do not wish to hear
    this


    If you need sharp, good _looking_ pictures right out of the camera for
    prints up to A4 without having to play with the images in Photoshop -
    don't buy a digital SLR - period.

    A lot of people with the right amount of cash went out to buy a 10D,
    Nikon D100 or whatever and are left dissatisfied and disappointed with
    the results they get from this camera - compared to the results they
    get from a Canon A10.

    The image sensor output is always in need of manipulation (unlike film
    or slide). The difference is that this happens automatically in a
    consumer camera (all the way up to Canon G5, Minolta 7i and Sony 717)
    and manually in a digital SLR (whatever brand). Clearly, for the best
    result you need the knowledge and experience with Photoshop to do
    this. And clearly, an automatic algorithm is never as good as an
    experienced Photoshop user.

    I use both a digital SLR and a consumer level digital camera, I am
    quite good with Photoshop and I _always_ work on my images and there
    is always something that I need to do. This is simply part of digital
    photography and you have to consider this before you buy the gear.


    Now, back to the OP... check out www.fredmiranda.com for tutorials and
    tools to sharpen your 10D images professionally.
     
    Bernhard Mayer, Aug 30, 2003
    #7
  8. Z

    Boris Harss Guest

    Hi, "Z"

    > with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same with the A20, the file is about 4
    > times the size from the 10D, ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look sharper from
    > the A20.


    Two reasons I can think of:

    * Internal sharpening of the A20 is more aggressive ("Amateurisher")
    * If you were shooting under not too bright conditions, the depth of
    field will be likely smaller with the D10, that should make
    *parts* of the image softer.

    Greetings,
    B.
     
    Boris Harss, Aug 30, 2003
    #8
  9. Z

    David Lewis Guest

    Todd Walker wrote:
    > In article <qdX3b.1635$>,
    > says...
    >> There have been some reports of a possible focus problem with the
    >> 10D which could account for what you are observing. See:
    >>

    >
    > It's got nothing to do with focus issues. Read my page here:
    >
    > http://twalker.d2g.com/dslr/


    With respect I think there is some confusion here between clarity and
    artificially tarted up images.I certainly expect clear crisp photos from an
    expensive camera WITH natural renditions of skin tone,saturations,shaarpness
    etc etc.If I want blurring I'll use slower shutter speed or do it in
    photoshop.Similarly if I want 'vividness' OR 'softness' .....BOTH of which
    are artificial by the way....I'll use photoshop.That is NO excuse for not
    starting with a *clear* image in the first place IMHO.

    --
    Kind Regards,
    David
     
    David Lewis, Aug 30, 2003
    #9
  10. None mentioned a better lens? A sharp lens is also important in getting
    sharp pictures. My favorite lenses are the 50mm 1.8 (only $70 I think) and
    the 24-70L (about $1250 I think). I would highly recommend you get the 50mm
    1.8... It's a great, cheap lens and is very light, fast, and sharp.

    --
    Albert Wiersch


    "Z" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I have a couple digitals cameras, A 2mp Canon a20 and a new Canon 10D. I
    > recently used both on vacation and found something interesting. If I

    shoot
    > with the 10D on Max/Fine JPEG and the same with the A20, the file is about

    4
    > times the size from the 10D, ...BUT...The pics I'm getting look sharper

    from
    > the A20. If I do no manipulation, just copy and print, or take to the

    local
    > lab to print on the the same system that prints 35mm pics, the A20 pics

    are
    > clearly sharper. I admit that the tones are better (smoother) with the

    10D.
    >
    > Camera was set on Auto WB, although I have tried others with no change in
    > results. Does this seem odd to other 10D owners, or can I turn up the
    > contrast 'in camera' ? Any advice will be helpful.
    >
    > Brian
    >
    >
     
    Albert Wiersch, Aug 31, 2003
    #10
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