How did j2 get my number?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by djin, Sep 29, 2005.

  1. djin

    djin Guest

    I found a questionable charge on my credit card statement - from a "J2
    Efax Plus Service" that I'd never heard of before. I called up the credit
    card company and they said they didn't know what it was and to call J2
    using the phone number on the credit card (long distance of course) next
    to the listing for J2. After calling J2 it became obvious that it was not
    some place like Kagi or Paypal that might be charging me for a purchase
    I'd made from another company. Instead it was some sort of email faxing
    service - something I have no use for and would never have ordered. I
    cancelled the credit card, thinking it had been compromised and being
    advised by both J2 and the credit card company to get a new card. The only
    other possibly fraudulent charge was one the credit card company said was
    from a bookstore and had been made today, when I hadn't used my credit
    card today. But it later occurred to me that it might have been something
    I'd ordered from Amazon, which had been delayed until today. (Amazon said
    it was too late to change the payment method for that order, which means...).

    So the only charge I know is bad is from J2. If my credit card number was
    stolen, why would the thief buy only a $25.90 efax service instead of a
    big screen TV or something? I'm left wondering if J2 itself is the thief,
    whether they might be partnering with another company and have access to
    the other company's customer accounts and sales records. Any ideas on this?
     
    djin, Sep 29, 2005
    #1
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  2. djin

    Jbob Guest

    "djin" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >I found a questionable charge on my credit card statement - from a "J2
    > Efax Plus Service" that I'd never heard of before. I called up the credit
    > card company and they said they didn't know what it was and to call J2
    > using the phone number on the credit card (long distance of course) next
    > to the listing for J2. After calling J2 it became obvious that it was not
    > some place like Kagi or Paypal that might be charging me for a purchase
    > I'd made from another company. Instead it was some sort of email faxing
    > service - something I have no use for and would never have ordered. I
    > cancelled the credit card, thinking it had been compromised and being
    > advised by both J2 and the credit card company to get a new card. The only
    > other possibly fraudulent charge was one the credit card company said was
    > from a bookstore and had been made today, when I hadn't used my credit
    > card today. But it later occurred to me that it might have been something
    > I'd ordered from Amazon, which had been delayed until today. (Amazon said
    > it was too late to change the payment method for that order, which
    > means...).
    >
    > So the only charge I know is bad is from J2. If my credit card number was
    > stolen, why would the thief buy only a $25.90 efax service instead of a
    > big screen TV or something? I'm left wondering if J2 itself is the thief,
    > whether they might be partnering with another company and have access to
    > the other company's customer accounts and sales records. Any ideas on
    > this?


    FWIW, this is a legit company.

    http://www.efax.com/en/efax/twa/page/productOverview

    J2 and eFax merged a few years ago. I have a J2 free fax number. What this
    company does is for free you can get a Fax number, might not be local, and
    have people send you faxes to that number. The service then receives the
    Fax, scans/converts it to an email and sends it to the email of your choice.
    This is nice for people who do not have a Fax machine handy. The paid
    service "Plus" allows you to send Fax's from your computer, without a Fax
    machine. They are electronically sent to either a Fax machine or another's
    email.

    As to how your credit card was charged is the question. The enclosed web
    site has a 1-800 number. I have read recently that there are some credit
    card scams going on that charge smaller amounts in hopes that credit card
    users will miss the charges. Some of the charges are going to reputable
    sounding names. I found a link to several web sites a few weeks ago but
    have since misplaced it. You can try calling eFax to check on a possible
    account or as you have already done, canceled your card.
     
    Jbob, Sep 30, 2005
    #2
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  3. djin

    djin Guest

    On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:48:26 -0500, Jbob wrote:

    >
    > FWIW, this is a legit company.
    >
    > http://www.efax.com/en/efax/twa/page/productOverview
    >
    > J2 and eFax merged a few years ago. I have a J2 free fax number. What
    > this company does is for free you can get a Fax number, might not be
    > local, and have people send you faxes to that number. The service then
    > receives the Fax, scans/converts it to an email and sends it to the email
    > of your choice. This is nice for people who do not have a Fax machine
    > handy. The paid service "Plus" allows you to send Fax's from your
    > computer, without a Fax machine. They are electronically sent to either a
    > Fax machine or another's email.


    It may be a legitimate company, but I've never used any of their services.
    I wasn't terribly impressed by the customer service representative's
    foreign accent, which made me wonder if the number I had was actually for
    the company. But he did tell me right away that since I hadn't ordered the
    service that someone must have my credit card number. He also asked my
    name and address, though I didn't really understand why - something about
    them wanting to mail me something about the incident. I wonder if this
    particular company has had this happen before.

    > As to how your credit card was charged is the question. The enclosed
    > web site has a 1-800 number. I have read recently that there are some
    > credit card scams going on that charge smaller amounts in hopes that
    > credit card users will miss the charges. Some of the charges are going
    > to reputable sounding names. I found a link to several web sites a few
    > weeks ago but have since misplaced it. You can try calling eFax to
    > check on a possible account or as you have already done, canceled your
    > card.


    Someone else told me that it isn't uncommon for a thief to only make one
    small charge on the card the first month - to "test the waters" to see if
    you notice. Then the next month is when they really start buying stuff.
    That didn't make a lot of sense to me though. Why give a warning?

    I assume that some company I ordered from online has had their records
    stolen or their ordering system compromised. I don't know how else it
    would happen. But I have no clue as to which company it might have been.
     
    djin, Sep 30, 2005
    #3
  4. djin

    teh Mephisto Guest

    djin wrote:
    > It may be a legitimate company, but I've never used any of their services.
    > I wasn't terribly impressed by the customer service representative's
    > foreign accent, which made me wonder if the number I had was actually for
    > the company.


    Almost all customer service and technical support for online (and many
    offline) companies are based out of India and other foreign countries.
    You will be hard pressed to find a major internet company whos customer
    service is in the US or whatever your native country is (unless your
    from India or another one of those countries)

    --
    Meph
     
    teh Mephisto, Sep 30, 2005
    #4
  5. djin

    sixtownships

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    there still at it and hit us this month. have anyone heard of monzoon?
    there doing it too. but dont know about them?
    lets know
     
    sixtownships, Apr 5, 2009
    #5
  6. djin

    lilliput

    Joined:
    May 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    J2 Efax Plus Service

    This wasn't a "credit card scam". It's possible that you signed up for the service through a quick sign-up Free Trial even tough you never got around to using the service. And like most free trials, as you didn't cancel in advance of the expiry date, you were billed automatically upon expiration of that free trial as per the user agreement...

    btw; eFax is a registered trademark of J2 Communications. :)
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2011
    lilliput, May 5, 2011
    #6
  7. djin

    Upset

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1
    Not legitimate company... Don't ever sign up with THEM!!!!


    I can see by these emails and the EFax reps and J2 reps responses that debiting your credit card without your approval is common practice by these companies. Do not sign up with them. I have to cancel my credit card because they are posting charges to it. I signed up with them to use the fax service ONCE. They started billing me two times a month (for two months). It's impossible to cancel the account with them. There is no option to do so once you sign up. And when my credit card expired they used some type of system to input different expiry dates until they found the right one for my card so they could keep debiting. I thought my nightmare ended when my card expired. I live in Africa with a US bank account and my husband travels worldwide so to cancel our credit cards and get new ones is unbelievably inconvenient. But now we're forced to do it.

    Stay as far from this company as you can. Post this everywhere so people know.
     
    Upset, Jun 11, 2011
    #7
  8. djin

    Chris Davis

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    I signed up for efax nearly 3 years ago, sent ONE Fax and 'cancelled' the next day by phone, since then I have now been billed £350 for this mistake.
    Only on winding up my wife's business account did I see that they are still charging us for this (unused) service.
    Called them again today to vent my anger at having had this money stolen from me, I was (at first) told that they had no record of me calling them at all, let alone to cancel, and that despite of them recording all phone calls they could not listen to mine unless I could give them not only the date of the call, (early Nov' 3rd-6th, probably the 4th 2009 is the best I can do) but they want the exact time down to the individual minute that the call went through, although they couldn't tell me if that was the time I made the call, it was answered by the switchboard or computerised answering service or when I actually finally got through their options menu.
    It has to be the exact minute however as they can only, so they say, look up phone calls using the time it came in and not by looking up either the number called from, the account number or any other customer details, convienient eh?
    Then after telling me at first a couple of times that there was no record of me ever contacting them by phone for any reason, the girl I was speaking to suddenly said that she had in fact now just seen a record of me calling in to their customer dis-service centre on the 4th Nov 2009, the very day I told then was almost certainly the day I called to cancel, being the day after I sent the late night fax, the only time I ever used the service.
    Yupp, she said that she could see that I had phoned in, but no notes on tyhe system saying why I had !
    I pointed out that the most likely explaination was that the staff member had simply not done their job correctly, possibly had even just not hit the 'Enter' key to input the cancellation request at end of call, might even have been a new member of staff, easy mistake to make, I know as have spent 18 months working in a call centre, (Saga) myself and I see this sort of thing happen now and again with peoples car insurance not being started or cancelled, or new car details not being entered, it just happens sometime.
    Big differance in how it's handled however.
    Still at least she told me t5hsat she had seen on screen that I had called in the day after I had sent the only fax I ever did.
    She told me that she could only arrange a refund of the last four months fee's due to their own internal policies, I was not too happy about this and asked to speak to her manager, was told not available, only after repeatly pointing out that I have a right top speak to her manager under UK consumer law a few times did her manager suddenly magically arrive.
    He the contridicted his own staff by telling me that there was in fact, (& I use that word quite loosely) now No Record of me calling in ever! Despite only being told ten minutes earlier that there was such a record, the manager when I pointed out that I had just been told by his staff that there was a record of this call would only state that he had 'not heard her say that', not supprising as he was 'not arround' when she was telling me this.
    I pointed out that all he had to do was listen to the call recording and he then told me he would be happy to do so if I could tell him to the minute when I made the call so he could 'look it up on the system'
    Even thogh the call was still in progress he couldn't replay it unless I could give him the exact minute I called, still thougfh he couldn't tell me if that was the exact minute I placed the call, it was picked up by switchboard or actually got through to a staff member

    Personally I'd steer well clear of this lot if you think you should get what you pay for
     
    Chris Davis, Oct 18, 2012
    #8
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