How can I disable HP preloaded datamining?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by warf, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. warf

    warf Guest

    I am sick to death of this P.O.S. HP pavilion DV8310. For a month I have
    been trying to deal with the trial-ware it comes with and the 135
    trusted modules grabbing internet access....WTF does my keyboard driver
    need internet access for?
    I notice the trial version of Norton I-net suite disallows me to remove
    the trusted pre-installed programs from HP! Essentials like MS-Explorer
    and System...can be removed but not Scvhost called from elsewhere. It
    appears to me that Norton has been engaged in hiding my user data export
    to HP and points unknown.

    SO I tried:
    MSconfig and removing all the startup files. RESULT- can't play a DVD
    but still get phonehomes.
    Services.msc and removed as many sneaky non-essential services as i
    could by trial and error. Even then there appear to be LSPs acting at
    the kernal level that don;t even trigger Spybot teatimer that the
    registry has been altered to reload the 'original configuration' and
    allow datamining.....although it is more restricted in what can call
    home to HP modules.
    REmoving all registry entries ans software that are not critical for
    usability but restrict phonehome...RESULTS..dismal! I am in over my head.
    I purchased ZA 2007 int-suite and it is better but Norton is very very
    sticky and conflicts at times by leaving hidden modules that the HP
    config ini restores on me.

    Did I say I am in over my head????? I am learning a lot about the
    efforts HP and MS are going to to get my data for free and
    surreptitiously but not making much headway in the blocking and
    retaining usability fight. For EG: if I deny access to the
    "quicklaunch" features i may be saving my privacy but can't play a
    rented DVD and listen to it.
    Win Media player10 is blocked from working if Sonic is active.

    It started two years ago with a 7150 printer driver that was integrated
    with phonehome 'no opt out' code. Tech supt finally conceded it was so
    entrained it would not work without the phonehome module and offered my
    money back saying "future printers would not have drivers integrated
    with connectivity modules.....two years later and is far worse. Great
    efforts have been made to make it harder to detect and remove.

    There is a hidden HP directory with ini files that on inspection read
    like " start c:\HP\bin\cloaker.exe c:customize PC ALL yadyada .bat and
    so on.
    I assume "cloaker.exe means "don;t expose the actions" no?

    Given that HP spys on its own directors have I a hope in making a
    machine i can connect to the internet and not broadcast the state of
    every piece of software and every media file I ever connected remotely to?

    Most firewalls and spyware utilities assume everything already loaded is
    legit....and if teatimer is foiled this is happening at at lower level
    than I can deal with directly right?

    Miffed!
     
    warf, Dec 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. warf wrote:

    > I am sick to death of this P.O.S. HP pavilion DV8310. For a month I have
    > been trying to deal with the trial-ware it comes with and the 135
    > trusted modules grabbing internet access....WTF does my keyboard driver
    > need internet access for?


    It doesn't. You're talking nonsense.

    > I notice the trial version of Norton I-net suite disallows me to remove
    > the trusted pre-installed programs from HP!


    And this might be because you're using nonsense software that tells you so
    much nonsense.

    > It appears to me that Norton has been engaged in hiding my user data export
    > to HP and points unknown.


    Could be. After all, Norton's purpose is to damage your network
    functionality.

    > SO I tried:
    > MSconfig and removing all the startup files. RESULT- can't play a DVD
    > but still get phonehomes.
    > Services.msc and removed as many sneaky non-essential services as i
    > could by trial and error. Even then there appear to be LSPs acting at
    > the kernal level that don;t even trigger Spybot teatimer that the
    > registry has been altered to reload the 'original configuration' and
    > allow datamining.....although it is more restricted in what can call
    > home to HP modules.
    > REmoving all registry entries ans software that are not critical for
    > usability but restrict phonehome...RESULTS..dismal! I am in over my head.


    Well, why didn't you try something SERIOUS like FLATTENING and REBULDING?

    > I purchased ZA 2007 int-suite and it is better but Norton is very very
    > sticky and conflicts at times by leaving hidden modules that the HP
    > config ini restores on me.


    Or maybe it's just another piece of crap. How much more do you want to pay
    until you finally start getting a clue?

    > i may be saving my privacy but can't play a rented DVD and listen to it.
    > Win Media player10 is blocked from working if Sonic is active.


    That's another load of bullshit. Why don't you use VideoLanClient or some
    other actual media player instead of abusing WMP as such?
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Dec 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. warf

    warf Guest

    Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:

    > warf wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I am sick to death of this P.O.S. HP pavilion DV8310. For a month I have
    >>been trying to deal with the trial-ware it comes with and the 135
    >>trusted modules grabbing internet access....WTF does my keyboard driver
    >>need internet access for?

    >
    >
    > It doesn't. You're talking nonsense.
    >
    >
    >>I notice the trial version of Norton I-net suite disallows me to remove
    >>the trusted pre-installed programs from HP!

    >
    >
    > And this might be because you're using nonsense software that tells you so
    > much nonsense.
    >
    >
    >>It appears to me that Norton has been engaged in hiding my user data export
    >>to HP and points unknown.

    >
    >
    > Could be. After all, Norton's purpose is to damage your network
    > functionality.
    >
    >
    >>SO I tried:
    >>MSconfig and removing all the startup files. RESULT- can't play a DVD
    >>but still get phonehomes.
    >>Services.msc and removed as many sneaky non-essential services as i
    >>could by trial and error. Even then there appear to be LSPs acting at
    >>the kernal level that don;t even trigger Spybot teatimer that the
    >>registry has been altered to reload the 'original configuration' and
    >>allow datamining.....although it is more restricted in what can call
    >>home to HP modules.
    >>REmoving all registry entries ans software that are not critical for
    >>usability but restrict phonehome...RESULTS..dismal! I am in over my head.

    >
    >
    > Well, why didn't you try something SERIOUS like FLATTENING and REBULDING?
    >
    >
    >>I purchased ZA 2007 int-suite and it is better but Norton is very very
    >>sticky and conflicts at times by leaving hidden modules that the HP
    >>config ini restores on me.

    >
    >
    > Or maybe it's just another piece of crap. How much more do you want to pay
    > until you finally start getting a clue?
    >
    >
    >>i may be saving my privacy but can't play a rented DVD and listen to it.
    >>Win Media player10 is blocked from working if Sonic is active.

    >
    >
    > That's another load of bullshit. Why don't you use VideoLanClient or some
    > other actual media player instead of abusing WMP as such?


    You are a very angry person Sebastion; lets make a deal, you provide
    some useful computer information and I will help you with your issues?
    Actually, you are probably just a gruff old teddy bear right?
    -still miffed and waitng for 'computer' help from a knowledgeable
    experienced person that has actually encountered these phenomena on an
    HP device.
     
    warf, Dec 13, 2006
    #3
  4. warf wrote:

    > You are a very angry person Sebastion; lets make a deal, you provide
    > some useful computer information and I will help you with your issues?


    I suggest a better deal: _you_ provide some useful computer information and
    I will help you with your issues?

    So far you didn't. And neither did you try something serious. You just kept
    on throwing more and more software on the problem to treat the symptoms
    rather than solving the underlying issue.

    So, at first you should bring back the system to a well-defined state. That
    means: flatten and rebuild. In before, you should write down your hardware
    configuration.

    Then, install all updates, configure it probably and download all relevant
    drivers for your hardware. Only install all necessary components, and
    nothing else. Don't use any installer, do an installation via the Windows
    Device Manager providing the .INF driver setup information files.

    And then install real software. Don't abuse WMP as media player, but rather
    use VLC or MPlayer or WinAmp or whatever you like. Don't install bullshit
    promised like "personal firewalls" or "internet security" or "anti
    spyware", but rather think about a serious security concept.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Dec 13, 2006
    #4
  5. warf

    warf Guest

    Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
    > warf wrote:
    >
    >
    >>You are a very angry person Sebastion; lets make a deal, you provide
    >>some useful computer information and I will help you with your issues?

    >
    >
    > I suggest a better deal: _you_ provide some useful computer information and
    > I will help you with your issues?
    >
    > So far you didn't. And neither did you try something serious. You just kept
    > on throwing more and more software on the problem to treat the symptoms
    > rather than solving the underlying issue.
    >
    > So, at first you should bring back the system to a well-defined state. That
    > means: flatten and rebuild. In before, you should write down your hardware
    > configuration.
    >
    > Then, install all updates, configure it probably and download all relevant
    > drivers for your hardware. Only install all necessary components, and
    > nothing else. Don't use any installer, do an installation via the Windows
    > Device Manager providing the .INF driver setup information files.
    >
    > And then install real software. Don't abuse WMP as media player, but rather
    > use VLC or MPlayer or WinAmp or whatever you like. Don't install bullshit
    > promised like "personal firewalls" or "internet security" or "anti
    > spyware", but rather think about a serious security concept.


    K....you are an old softy [wink]
    You have confirmed my suspicions; I am buying a softwareless box and
    need to consider the cost of OS and productivity and utility software
    since the 'free' is no longer free preloaded.....if it ever was.

    FIS, i have flattened 3 times and attempted step by step services
    disable and module killing but the complexity and manifold layering of
    XP is hard to get around; especially for a non-expert! Add to that the
    low level interference HP imposes to 'restore' files. modules,
    configurations etc before I even get to the HKEY.Run...portion of my input!

    I stated earlier that i lose functionality if i use many 3rd party
    products because the drivers themselves are intimately linked to the
    data mining process. Say what you will but this has been a month of
    damned determination....I am so determined to overcome this that i may
    even RTFM [Grin]...or take machine language courses....or hire a
    programmer....

    In reality this has been an eyeopener for me.
    I started out make my new computer relatively safe from all those
    netbios scans from Cn and Ru but soon realized there was a terrific
    stream of data coming to and from my 'trusted'apps.

    So my first step was as you suggest; flatten and restore to insure i
    wasn't already compromised. I tried McAfee---crap, I bought ZA2007Int
    sec Suite, better. Spybot, Adaware and all the utilities available
    helped me get to the point where I risked the insults lessor people
    endure on these expert sites.

    So.....do I continue providing my internet access to supply marketing
    information for 135 modules 'trusted' to access the Internet
    surreptitiously ? [roll over and ex[pose my genitillia]
    Or do i try to learn enough with the help of more experienced people to
    see how far this will go and HOPEFULLY, be able to repay this by
    assisting others that may tire of the same old same old?

    AGAIN; i have no problem with questions of ownership or usage asked up
    front....it is the sneaky theft of info I abhor.
    Signed:Miffed [still].

    PS........thanks for the advice so far.
     
    warf, Dec 13, 2006
    #5
  6. warf

    warf Guest

    Re: How can I disable HP preloaded datamining?...new tack.

    Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:

    snip.
    > I suggest a better deal: _you_ provide some useful computer information and
    > I will help you with your issues?
    >


    On a different tack, I appreciate that I am far behind the level of
    knowledge need to tackle this problem myself...very skilled teams of
    people working many years have the advantage of evolution towards an
    end; I have but a desire and intermediate skills at best.
    Specifically: Is it reasonable to assume that the HP Datamining
    'stickiness' is at the LSP level no? Granted a driver may not
    'phonehome' but it can hang while waiting for a response via the LSP
    calling a related module no?
    pleab.....and miffed.
     
    warf, Dec 13, 2006
    #6
  7. warf

    erewhon Guest


    > FIS, i have flattened 3 times and attempted step by step services
    > disable and module killing but the complexity and manifold layering of XP
    > is hard to get around; especially for a non-expert! Add to that the low
    > level interference HP imposes to 'restore' files. modules, configurations
    > etc before I even get to the HKEY.Run...portion of my input!


    So you are not using a vanilla copy of XP - rather the 'HP Restore CD' which
    contains these unwanted apps?

    If this is the case, you are fighting a losing battle.

    Obtain a copy of Microsoft XP with a suitable licence key. You have to ditch
    the HP restore CD's if you want to remove all the HP crap.
     
    erewhon, Dec 13, 2006
    #7
  8. warf wrote:

    > FIS, i have flattened 3 times and attempted step by step services
    > disable and module killing but the complexity and manifold layering of
    > XP is hard to get around; especially for a non-expert! Add to that the
    > low level interference HP imposes to 'restore' files. modules,
    > configurations etc before I even get to the HKEY.Run...portion of my input!


    The sound pretty much like you're reinstalling from a "Restore CD" which
    comes with all that crap preloaded. This obviously won't work. There are
    various guides on the net how to turn such a Restore CD into a real OEM
    installation CD free of any crap.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Dec 13, 2006
    #8
  9. warf

    warf Guest

    Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
    > warf wrote:
    >
    >
    >>FIS, i have flattened 3 times and attempted step by step services
    >>disable and module killing but the complexity and manifold layering of
    >>XP is hard to get around; especially for a non-expert! Add to that the
    >>low level interference HP imposes to 'restore' files. modules,
    >>configurations etc before I even get to the HKEY.Run...portion of my input!

    >
    >
    > The sound pretty much like you're reinstalling from a "Restore CD" which
    > comes with all that crap preloaded. This obviously won't work. There are
    > various guides on the net how to turn such a Restore CD into a real OEM
    > installation CD free of any crap.


    Thanks all for your advice.
    You are both correct, i am using a restore disk.
    I wasn't sure if i was entitle to make a clean boot CD from the cabfiles
    of the other laptop restore CDs I own??
    I haven't bothered to try from the HP restore CDs because it appears MS
    has a special version for them.

    So...once I make a clean XP bootCD and until I get back to the prickly
    question of "how am I amble to get drivers that work on my laptop free
    from the clutches of HP...."

    Thanks for the help.
    What a learning experience it has been for me and a real eyeopener for
    how difficult it must be for network admins that have to provide
    function _and_ security for dozens of people all wanting to have full
    control of their boxes.......like Britanny Spears.

    Less Miffed.
     
    warf, Dec 13, 2006
    #9
  10. warf wrote:

    > "how am I amble to get drivers that work on my laptop free
    > from the clutches of HP...."


    From the websites of the vendors. No need for getting bundles from HP.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Dec 14, 2006
    #10
  11. warf

    John Hyde Guest

    On 12/13/2006 12:16 PM, erewhon wrote:
    >> FIS, i have flattened 3 times and attempted step by step services
    >> disable and module killing but the complexity and manifold layering of XP
    >> is hard to get around; especially for a non-expert! Add to that the low
    >> level interference HP imposes to 'restore' files. modules, configurations
    >> etc before I even get to the HKEY.Run...portion of my input!

    >
    > So you are not using a vanilla copy of XP - rather the 'HP Restore CD' which
    > contains these unwanted apps?
    >
    > If this is the case, you are fighting a losing battle.
    >
    > Obtain a copy of Microsoft XP with a suitable licence key. You have to ditch
    > the HP restore CD's if you want to remove all the HP crap.
    >
    >

    Which frankly sucks. When you buy it, you are paying for a license. So
    now you have to buy a new one?
     
    John Hyde, Dec 14, 2006
    #11
  12. John Hyde wrote:

    >> So you are not using a vanilla copy of XP - rather the 'HP Restore CD' which
    >> contains these unwanted apps?
    >>
    >> If this is the case, you are fighting a losing battle.
    >>
    >> Obtain a copy of Microsoft XP with a suitable licence key. You have to ditch
    >> the HP restore CD's if you want to remove all the HP crap.
    >>

    > Which frankly sucks. When you buy it, you are paying for a license. So
    > now you have to buy a new one?


    Well, here in good'ol Germany our jurisdictation tells that the bundling to
    a certain hardware is not legal and therefore every customer can demand a
    free replacement with an unbundled version.

    At any rate, there are various guides on the net how to turn a restore CD
    into an OEM CD.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Dec 14, 2006
    #12
  13. warf

    warf Guest

    Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:

    snip
    >
    > Well, here in good'ol Germany our jurisdictation tells that the bundling to
    > a certain hardware is not legal and therefore every customer can demand a
    > free replacement with an unbundled version.
    >
    > At any rate, there are various guides on the net how to turn a restore CD
    > into an OEM CD.


    Sebastian, is it true that you can even buy MSoft-XP free from OE and
    IE? Someone told me MSoft had to rework XP to enable third party
    browsers and email programs AND allow you to uninstall OE and IE completely.
    warf
     
    warf, Dec 15, 2006
    #13
  14. warf wrote:

    > Sebastian Gottschalk wrote:
    >
    > snip
    >>
    >> Well, here in good'ol Germany our jurisdictation tells that the bundling to
    >> a certain hardware is not legal and therefore every customer can demand a
    >> free replacement with an unbundled version.
    >>
    >> At any rate, there are various guides on the net how to turn a restore CD
    >> into an OEM CD.

    >
    > Sebastian, is it true that you can even buy MSoft-XP free from OE and IE?


    No. However, you can create such a thing. Still I wouldn't mind doing so,
    since at least IE's internal engine is a dependency for too many programs.

    > Someone told me MSoft had to rework XP to enable third party
    > browsers and email programs AND allow you to uninstall OE and IE completely.


    Microsoft indeed had to rework, and you're seeing the result with XP SP2,
    2K SP4 and SRV03 SP1. Basically it's just a lame payoff for the first one
    (which means that every program that wants to benefit from the "set your
    default programs" menu has to explicitly register there, whereas
    IE+OE+MSN+WMP are registered by default - thus would only allow people to
    get back to these for a long time), and the latter is not actually
    implemented - you can just remove all shortcuts to these programs, but it
    doesn't uninstall them.
     
    Sebastian Gottschalk, Dec 15, 2006
    #14
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